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#201 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 23,324
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It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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#202 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 16,368
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I hadn't heard that he was referred to as Fredo. OUCH. This was in the middle of the campaign. All these people at that time would be busy. Am I mistaken. But I seem to recall Trump Sr soliciting during the campaign for the Russians to hack Hillary. Or something similar.
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“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume |
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#203 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 23,324
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Quite. If you have explosive material you can release a bombshell.
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It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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#204 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 23,324
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__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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#205 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 72,392
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Master of the Shining Darkness ![]() ![]() |
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#206 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 17,554
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Seriously, then why doesn't every lawyer in the country agree?
Let me guess. The ones that don't are all politically motivated, denying what they learned in law school. Back in the campaign days, Republicans absolutely insisted that it was plainly obvious to everyone who could read that Hillary Clinton had committed felonies and that "lock her up" was an appropriate response. They were sure of it. They knew it. It wasn't hard to understand. And yet, those who made their living by evaluating whether or not felonies had been committed said that no felonies had been committed. Wel,, that's strange, isn't it? I mean, it was so easy to understand..... When the majority of professionals start saying that this meeting is a crime, I'll buy into it. Right now, it looks like most professionals are either saying it wasn't, or withholding judgment. I'm going with the latter. It would not surprise me in the least to learn that crimes were committed either at that meeting or in connection with that meeting. However, the mere existence of the meeting doesn't seem like a crime to me, not even when the associated emails are included. |
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#207 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 72,392
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#208 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,347
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Trump's lawyer, Jay Sekulow, is making it very difficult for me to believe he is a real lawyer.
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#209 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,654
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#210 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 17,554
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The statute in question dealt with campaign finance. It doesn't seem odd to me in the least that they would limit the scope of the statute to financial things.
And, in all seriousness, the lawyers are saying something different than the laymen. When that happens, and the subject is law, go with the lawyers. They're the expert at this sort of thing. But fear not. They will find the dirt that's worth digging. The plot thickens: http://www.philly.com/philly/columni...-20170717.html |
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#211 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 17,554
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#212 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 16,368
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“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume |
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#213 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 17,554
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If there are any lawyers here or anyone passingly familiar with constitutional law, please correct me if I am wrong, but here goes.
No. It is not sellable. There may be occasions on which money changes hands in exchange for that information. However, that is not a sale. There are all sorts of corruption laws that might be violated when that cash changes hands, but an actual legal sale does not occur. By the way, if the dirt on Hillary Clinton was obtained illegally, which it almost certainly was, given it was the result of hacking, trying to obtain it probably broke a law or two, quite apart from campaign financing. These little petty differences really do matter. They are the stuff of which laws are made. |
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#214 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,730
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Trump Jr did and said everything the Russians wanted to hear:
- he didn't report the overtures to the FBI - he invited key campaign personnel to the meeting - they didn't report to the FBI - he made it clear that he was interested in more dirt than was provided, and that he didn't want to do the research himself For whoever wanted to influence the election, these are clear green lights that the Trump campaign would welcome their efforts and keep their secrets. Snowflake trumpistas need buzzwords like"nothingburger" as a security blanket to hide under. But just because you say there are no monsters under the bed doesn't make it so. |
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#215 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,201
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So does this mean you are figuring it out now?
![]() To the interestingly timed settled case with the fired AG, add the rest of the the Magnitsky Act and the Russia investigation
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More Zakaria's unraveling of the case: why is Trump such a bro to Putin?
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WA Po got into the financial story as well. Inside Trump’s financial ties to Russia and his unusual flattery of Vladimir Putin
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Add all this to the timeline put together in this thread and you probably should quit repeating the "we don't know" mantra whether information on Clinton was traded and Trump Sr was out of the loop. The default position is not to believe yet one more lie from these intransigents. To continue insisting that position in light of past lies, financial ties, suspicious timing of hacked email releases, Trump bragging he'd have Clinton dirt in a week, Carter Page revealing the Podesta email hack before it was public, and how many dozen denials now of meetings with Russians from Sessions and Pence to Donnie Jr, Manafort, Flynn, Kushner, is sadly akin to Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown one more time. |
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#216 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,730
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Actually, according to Trump himself, yes, such Information has monetary value: when he called upon Russia to hack Clinton to find the missing emails, he explicitly said that the press would pay them well for their efforts.
Plenty of networks pay for such dirt all the time. |
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"When someone asks you if you're a god, you say "YES"!" |
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#217 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 72,392
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What? How was that equivocation? You are arguing against the idea that "thing of value" may be information. I'm pointing out that information is routinely purchased, making it a thing of value by definition. You're ignoring this.
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#218 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 17,554
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When they do so, do they pay sales tax?
That's a serious question. Don't get me wrong. I am absolutely certain that Trump is corrupt from his head to his toe. I would be very surprised if he has not committed some sort of crime in the course of all this. I just don't know which one. When I see a bunch of lawyers going on TV saying "this one", I'll believe it. That isn't happening yet. |
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#219 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
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#220 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Just outside Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,739
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Eqinsu Ocha! Eqinsu Ocha! |
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#221 |
Penultimate Amazing
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#222 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Just outside Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,739
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A few pages back - maybe in the mid 70's of part 1 - wasn't there the citing of election law with references to "things of value"?
A little Googling lead (led?) me to this: https://transition.fec.gov/pages/bro.../foreign.shtml And I'm reading it now. Have errands to run...dog to the vet, son to the doctor... |
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#223 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 17,218
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#224 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
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#225 |
Philosopher
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#226 |
Critical Thinker
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Posts: 271
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#227 |
Muse
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 671
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This one always stuck me as very odd.
First that was back in 2008, 4 years before Obama would laugh Romney out of the room with that "the 80ies called" line. Putin didn't become the new new Hitler(tm) before 2013. Also rich russians buying real estate in foreign countries? Why I never heard of such a thing! What's next? The swiss somehow involved in banking? |
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#228 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Just outside Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,739
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In MUR 5409 (2004), the Federal Election Commission voted 5-1 to accept the general counsel’s finding that Grover Norquist’s Americans for Tax Reform (a corporation) provided a “thing of value” to the Bush-Cheney reelection campaign. It was a list of conservative activists in 37 states. Some of the information may have been publicly available when Norquist gave it to Ken Mehlman of the campaign. The General Counsel found that this was a prohibited corporate contribution and that Bush-Cheney violated the law by failing to report it. But it found the list had so little value that the General Counsel did not recommend pursuing the matter further. THANKS! |
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#229 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 2,942
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Another theory of legal culpability of the Trump family/campaign, wrt hacking their political opponents.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/it-crime...-and-abuse-act Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro |
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#230 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 17,218
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Ah, but because it was stolen information, it could not legally be sold, so therefore it was valueless?
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#231 |
Philosopher
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#232 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 17,218
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#233 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 66,201
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#234 |
Muse
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 671
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It's two points actually.
We haven't been always been at war with eastasia back in 2008, so it's a bit unfair. Like posting pictures of kerry and assad dining or rumsfeld meeting hussein. Second is that I would be very suprised if somebody who is in buisness in international real estate hadn't had significant contact with the russian elite. |
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#235 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,760
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#236 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Cardiff, South Wales
Posts: 23,324
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It's entirely fair to quote what Donald Jr said quite openly in 2008.
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Given that Russia has been subject to a kleptocracy since the 90's a lot of that money is being washed. |
__________________
It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150 |
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#237 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,665
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Its amazing where this has gone. He never paid for the NON information, so the left wants to assign value to it. Even though there is no standard that can put a value on it. This once again shows the left is so invested in this they'll do anything to be able to construct their narrative. Sadly for them, courts don't work that way, maybe they ought to try Venezuela.
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#238 |
Philosopher
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#239 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,008
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I think the point of that was, not that he simply had business dealings with Russians back then, but that Russians might still have some sort of financial hold over him today. That's something suspicious minds think of when they are trying to figure out why Trump refuses to criticize Putin and has persisted in doing things Putin must be loving. Hopefully, Mueller will sort it out.
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#240 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Oct 2010
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