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Old 2nd April 2017, 03:55 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Christ existed since before the world began, as did the commandments and laws that govern the universe.

bb
Okay. If your argument is going to stay at straight up incredulous reality denial, so be it.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 03:58 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
Regardless this is all a song we've heard sung before. If you're going to come to a place like this arguing an absurdity you can't provide the Mormon belief system as your evidence and you certainly can't do that then run behind the "But that's not what I'm hear to talk about" excuse when that doesn't work.

Right now your argument is functionally "God communicates to me through muscle twitches and my evidence is the Mormon belief system" and that's just not gonna fly.
Sticking to the topic is a basic rule on this forum.

bb

ETA: I'll be happy to discuss the authenticity of LDS scripture if you want. Just stop changing this thread's topic.

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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:04 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Sticking to the topic is a basic rule on this forum.
And the fact that this will allow you to bring in "evidence" without actually arguing it is just a handy side effect eh?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:12 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by JoeBentley View Post
And the fact that this will allow you to bring in "evidence" without actually arguing it is just a handy side effect eh?
I've already been suspended a couple times for going off-topic.

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:17 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
All I have to do to stop the myalgia is to rest in bed and stop thinking for about 10 minutes. So it's not too bad. To answer some other questions raised, yes I suffered a head injury as a young child. And the savant part is both musical ability and an eidetic memory. The idiot part is social disability.

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

You appear to be misusing "myalgia" in the same way you misuse "proof", evidence", and "savant".

I remain, inquisitively yours &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:23 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

You appear to be misusing "myalgia" in the same way you misuse "proof", evidence", and "savant".

I remain, inquisitively yours &ct.
Myalgia = pain in a muscle or group of muscles

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:29 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Read Moroni 10:3-5. That is the key to obtaining the proof you seek.

bb

ETA: if you ask me again for proof, I'll refer you there again.
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

Steadfastly maintaining an error does not make it become true. You, personally, do not accept that the mystic stirrings of your superstition, as attested to by your alt.xian "scriptures" constitute no more that your feelings, your convictions, the things you believe. As I have pointed out to you before, none of that constitutes evidence in any real, practical, testable, empirical, non-anecdotal, objective way. Every time you try to pretend that your feelings really are evidence of anything other than your feelings, I will remind you of this.

Since you admit that your convictions are the only evidence you will deign to offer, what I said earlier is true: you have no evidence for the existence of your 'god', much less for its puissance in sending BS "messages", much less for the efficacy of those "messages" in dealing with pain.

While this is not the thread for it, I would very much like to hear your explanation for those who have, in fact, studied "scripture" and fervently prayed, and still have received no "sign" from your 'god' of its existence. Perhaps one day you will return to one of the mormonism threads.

I remain, realistically yours &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:30 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Yes, I'm advancing the argument that the body signals are a built-in way that God uses as a schoolteacher to lead us to Christ and his gospel. Relief from the pain of the BS's comes as we conform to live his commandments.

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

Why is it that it does not appear to work against the thorn in your own side?

I remain, pedagogically yours, &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:31 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
How come you are the only person on the planet whom god communicates with in this way?

Oh, and you have no idea what proof means. I've just wasted 30 seconds of my life reading Moroni 10:3-5, and it contains nothing of any value. It has no evidence, let alone proof. Please don't refer to this crap again in a sentence which includes the words evidence or proof, except to say "I accept that this book contains no proof of anything".
Not to mention the execrable pseudo-shakespearian expression...ugh. KJV fanfic.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:36 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
I hypothesize that the BS's are universal--if you have a body, the body signals are built-in, like the nervous system or the circulatory system. I consider TOBS to be a major discovery. I don't know why others don't already have this knowledge.
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

You appear to be misusing "hypothesize" with the same carelessness with which you misuse "evidence", "proof", and "savant".

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Read it or don't--that's up to you. I do testify that the Book of Mormon is true, like the Bible.

bb
In this, for once, we agree. The claims of the BoM are precisely as "true" as the claims of the "bible".

What happens when one reads your "scriptures" and prays, and still receives no revelation (not even BS "messages") from your 'god'?

I remain, jamesically yours &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:39 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Did you pray about it with real intent and faith that God will reveal it to you? Note the words "with real intent"--God knows when you're not serious vs. when you really want to know. A testimony isn't a one-shot deal; you must grow and care for it carefully like a seedling.

I recall Alma 32 in the BofM has something to say about how this process works.
bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

What is the sound of one goalpost moving?

I remain, referentially yours &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:43 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Don't you think we know that? Is your crank idea so self unaware as to think none of us have already read the BoM and found it to be childish in extremis. Do you not realise that everyone else here finds the BoM to be but one short step away from the Chantry Guild? Are you really that naive in your thinking?
It does seem difficult for Mr. Baxter to understand that many people have spent much time in seeking and prayer, and still disagree with him...or that people who understand physiology and elementary psychology already know the kinds of things that cause his BS "messages".

Seems to be a common theme in many threads here: "You don't agree with me, so you are, by definition, wrong."
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:49 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Again: The testimony God gave me of the Book of Mormon's truthfulness, received over the years through the HG is the evidence I was talking about. I don't seek to demonize objectivity--I'm only saying that some kinds of evidence are subjective yet valid.

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

It is, in fact, at the point that you mistake "subjective, but valid for you" for "subjective, but objectively valid for everyone", that you do err.

You may believe what you chose. You should not expect your belief about your subjective convictions to be considered evidence outside the fastness of your own head.

I remain, demonstrably yours & ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:50 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

Steadfastly maintaining an error does not make it become true. You, personally, do not accept that the mystic stirrings of your superstition, as attested to by your alt.xian "scriptures" constitute no more that your feelings, your convictions, the things you believe. As I have pointed out to you before, none of that constitutes evidence in any real, practical, testable, empirical, non-anecdotal, objective way. Every time you try to pretend that your feelings really are evidence of anything other than your feelings, I will remind you of this.
There is plenty of evidence for the existence of God, of all types.

Quote:
Since you admit that your convictions are the only evidence you will deign to offer, what I said earlier is true: you have no evidence for the existence of your 'god', much less for its puissance in sending BS "messages", much less for the efficacy of those "messages" in dealing with pain.
straw man--I accept all types of proof.

Quote:
While this is not the thread for it, I would very much like too hear your explanation for those who have, in fact, studied "scripture" and fervently prayed, and still have received no "sign" from your 'god' of its existence. Perhaps one day you will return to one of the mormonism threads.

I remain, realistically yours &ct.
I dunno, to be honest. Ask a chat missionary on www.mormon.org .

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:56 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
How many times have you read the BofM? Do you believe in Christ? He is the central figure of it. He is well-able to save us from the consequences and pains of our sins. All he asks in return is to keep his commandments. The BofM instructs us how to do this. It is Another Testament of Jesus Christ, a companion volume to the Bible.

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

It is, in fact, telling to see you treat "Christ" as a name, and not a title. It speaks eloquently of your preparation in your "scriptures". It does not, however, make your post any less off-topic, nor does it make your alt.xian "scriptures" ('...you must never forget the PoGP, O best belovéd...') any less of a poorly-written fraudulent fanfic.

I remain, well-versedly yours, &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 04:58 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

Why is it that it does not appear to work against the thorn in your own side?

I remain, pedagogically yours, &ct.
It does work with my myalgia. I call it fulfilling the signal. Which means conforming to the conditions which the signals are designed to impose on us, based on our own judgment from God. I'll explain this further in upcoming posts.

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:00 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Again: the witness of the Holy Ghost is my evidence I'm citing, easily understood by all.

I'm not citing the body signals as evidence at this time.

bb
Again, your claims about your beliefs about your "Holy Ghost" are not evidence of anything but your beliefs.

You keep overlooking the "...testable, non-anecdotal, empirical, objective..." part.

I remain,indefatigably yours &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:07 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Actually JS translated the BofM from ancient golden plates through the gift and power of God.

The two main commandments are: love God with all your heart, might, mind and strength; and love your neighbor as yourself. On these commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

bb
Again, reciting the party line about your alt-xian fanfic does not make it magically become true, nor does it constitute evidence.

In a different thread, it might be useful to pursue the evidence (and there is none) for Smith's claims--particularly given his spectacularly fraudulent "translation" of the common funerary text that supposedly makes up the PoGP.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:08 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
When we reject the evidence, there is no evidence.

bb
Again, when you pretend that your internal convictions are "evidence" there is no evidence. "You keep using that word...".
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:09 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
And those were written in what language?
Road-company KJV-flavored pseudo-shakesperian..."And thus it came to be."
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:13 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
The Nephites called it "reformed Egyptian."

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

Again: claiming that a fictional group of people made a statement about a fictional language (to cover up a transparent fraud) is not "evidence" of anything other than your ability to believe what you are told.

In a different thread, I would urge you to provide evidence of these "Nephites"; here, it is OT.

I remain, steadfastly yours &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:22 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
"Your book can't be true because we know it's not!"

There's a good objective mindset....

Start a thread on the BofM if you want. This thread is about TOBS and relieving pain through its application by repenting of our sins.

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

This bit is, in fact, a person-of-straw argument, and a poorly constructed one. The reason any reader with any familiarity with history can tell your alt-xian testament is fraudulent is the ham-handed, fraudulent, historically laughable, and demonstrably erroneous ways in which simple details of reality in mesoamerica are mishandled. You know, that whole "evidence" thing. And that is without even beginning to consider its macculate provenance.

This may also be the very first time I have seen lying down and not thinking called, "...repenting of our[sic] sins..."

I reamin, somewhat bemusedly yours, &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:23 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
I made it clear that my case study was fictional. It was an example designed to illustrate a point, nothing more.

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

You appear to be misusing "case study" in the same way you misuse "savant", "evidence", and "hypothesize".

I remain, somewhat pedantically yours &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:28 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Eh? Jesus gave these two commandments in the NT. They are basic to Christianity.

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

Is it possible you are not aware that the "golden rule" and its variants existed long, long before the 'god'spiels were written, edited, redacted, and canonized? There's a whole thread about that...

I remain, disappointedly yours. &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:36 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

Is it possible you are not aware that the "golden rule" and its variants existed long, long before the 'god'spiels were written, edited, redacted, and canonized? There's a whole thread about that...

I remain, disappointedly yours. &ct.
God and his laws existed long before the world was created. All of man's good laws came from him.

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:42 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

You appear to be misusing "case study" in the same way you misuse "savant", "evidence", and "hypothesize".

I remain, somewhat pedantically yours &ct.
You appear to be misusing the word "misuse."

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:47 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Christ existed since before the world began, as did the commandments and laws that govern the universe.

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

Again: repeating the elements of your fanfic does not constitute evidence.

That being said, your post is OT to this thread.

I remain, helpfully yours &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:51 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Sticking to the topic is a basic rule on this forum.

bb

ETA: I'll be happy to discuss the authenticity of LDS scripture if you want. Just stop changing this thread's topic.
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

You do not appear to be participating in any of the threads about the BoM. This makes your statement here seem disingenuous.

I, for one, enjoy those threads. Do consider joining one or more.

I remain, invitingly yours &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:53 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Myalgia = pain in a muscle or group of muscles

bb
My dear Mr. Baxter:

I appreciate you providing concrete, testable, objective evidence that you are, in fact, misusing the term.

I remain, gratefully yours &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 05:59 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
"Your book can't be true because we know it's not!"

There's a good objective mindset....

Start a thread on the BofM if you want. This thread is about TOBS and relieving pain through its application by repenting of our sins.

bb
You brought it up as supporting fires to your argument. I should be able to challenge the authenticity of the book as it relates to your claims.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 06:06 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You brought it up as supporting fires to your argument. I should be able to challenge the authenticity of the book as it relates to your claims.
I did, you're right. I need to stay more on-topic lest I be suspended again.

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 06:08 AM   #232
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com...8#post11782168

I have, yet again bumped this thread for your benefit. If you would like to discuss the BoM, you are safe to do so here.

ETA: I've even gone to the trouble of repeating my assertion about the BoM and slandering the charlatan Joseph Smith to help get you going.

Last edited by Craig4; 2nd April 2017 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 06:09 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

What is the sound of one goalpost moving?

I remain, referentially yours &ct.
Shhloooook!

I believe.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 06:10 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
There is plenty of evidence for the existence of God, of all types.
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

"Of all types" would include the practical, factual, objective evidence you scorn. Feel free to offer any actual, empirical, non-anecdotal, direct, testable, objective evidence you have for the mere existence of your 'god', much less its puissance--and, since you made the claim do not pretend that quoting from your alt.xian 'scriptures' is any of those things.

Your claim; your onus.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
straw man--I accept all types of proof.
This demonstrably false statement is a bit of a non sequitur, even a Clupea rubea; your low standards for what you will "accept" is not at issue, only the quality of what you deign to offer.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
I dunno, to be honest. Ask a chat missionary on www.mormon.org .

bb
You really ought to educate yourself. You have implied that such a situation is the fault of the seeker. Are you changing your story, now?

I remain, calmly yours &ct.
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Last edited by Slowvehicle; 2nd April 2017 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 06:15 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
God and his laws existed long before the world was created. All of man's good laws came from him.

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

This is an unsupported assertion. Repeating your beliefs does not make them come true. I would be fascinated by evidence (remember what I do for a living); your doxologies, not so much.

I remain, residentially yours &ct.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 06:19 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
You appear to be misusing the word "misuse."

bb
My Dear Mr. Baxter:

To misuse a word is to use it incorrectly, contrary to its accepted meaning, as you have done, for instance, with "evidence", "savant", "case study", and "hypothesis".

I remain, grammatically yours &ct.
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"Cry, booga, booga, booga! and let slip the Hamsters of Silly!" -JFDHintze

Last edited by Slowvehicle; 2nd April 2017 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 06:33 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
I made it clear that my case study was fictional. It was an example designed to illustrate a point, nothing more.

bb
If Sven is fictional then he is neither a case study nor an example.

He's just a made up guy with a made up story about him.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 07:07 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
The Nephites called it "reformed Egyptian."

bb
And where is that language found?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 07:57 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
And where is that language found?
Exclusively on the Nephite records, including the golden plates, that the Nephite prophet-historians kept.

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 07:58 AM   #240
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
If Sven is fictional then he is neither a case study nor an example.

He's just a made up guy with a made up story about him.
And that's all he was meant to be.

bb
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