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Old 2nd April 2017, 08:01 AM   #241
Craig4
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Exclusively on the Nephite records, including the golden plates, that the Nephite prophet-historians kept.

bb
You mean the civilization that could not possibly have existed in the pre-Colombian Americas?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 08:02 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
And that's all he was meant to be.

bb
So someone who never existed, didn't have any pain and didn't actually experience what you described. This proves what point exactly?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 08:09 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
And that's all he was meant to be.

bb
But you have called him an 'example' and a 'case study'. He's neither.

The person is fictitious and his story is fictitious therefore he can't be a case study and he can't be an example of someone whose pain is or can be cured by application of the TOBS.

You need an actual person with actual pain who has actually been studied before you have a 'case study' applicable to TOBS. And you need an actual person with actual pain upon who the TOBS has been used and worked before you have an 'example' of the TOBS in action.

The fact that you have neither case studies nor examples, but are instead relying on an imaginary person that you are calling a case study and an example, should be a red flag that you have nothing to show your TOBS actually works.

Last edited by JesseCuster; 2nd April 2017 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 09:56 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by JesseCuster View Post
But you have called him an 'example' and a 'case study'. He's neither.

The person is fictitious and his story is fictitious therefore he can't be a case study and he can't be an example of someone whose pain is or can be cured by application of the TOBS.

You need an actual person with actual pain who has actually been studied before you have a 'case study' applicable to TOBS. And you need an actual person with actual pain upon who the TOBS has been used and worked before you have an 'example' of the TOBS in action.

The fact that you have neither case studies nor examples, but are instead relying on an imaginary person that you are calling a case study and an example, should be a red flag that you have nothing to show your TOBS actually works.
So far I have only myself to observe and apply TOBS with. But let's say I'm studying the growth of two plants from the same species in two different rooms. I notice that plant "A" responds and grows with exposure to sunlight and water.

Predicting that plant "B" will respond to sunlight and water in a similar fashion without actually testing this hypothesis is reasonable, don't you think?

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 10:10 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
So far I have only myself to observe and apply TOBS with. But let's say I'm studying the growth of two plants from the same species in two different rooms. I notice that plant "A" responds and grows with exposure to sunlight and water.

Predicting that plant "B" will respond to sunlight and water in a similar fashion without actually testing this hypothesis is reasonable, don't you think?

bb
If the room in which plant 'A' was growing was very noisy, by this reasoning you would also expect plant "B" to respond to noise.

This is why you have to be so careful when conducting these kind of experiments. It is very easy to inadvertently fool yourself into believing something that isn't true. That's why the scientific method had to be invented. You have not even begun to apply it to TOBS. Your 'experiments' are worthless and so are your conclusions. You really have done the equivalent of convincing yourself that plants need noise to grow, due to your total ignorance of how to reliably determine such things.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 10:13 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
So far I have only myself to observe and apply TOBS with. But let's say I'm studying the growth of two plants from the same species in two different rooms. I notice that plant "A" responds and grows with exposure to sunlight and water.

Predicting that plant "B" will respond to sunlight and water in a similar fashion without actually testing this hypothesis is reasonable, don't you think?

bb
No. You cannot make a statistical case on the basis of one sample.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 10:38 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
If the room in which plant 'A' was growing was very noisy, by this reasoning you would also expect plant "B" to respond to noise.

This is why you have to be so careful when conducting these kind of experiments. It is very easy to inadvertently fool yourself into believing something that isn't true. That's why the scientific method had to be invented. You have not even begun to apply it to TOBS. Your 'experiments' are worthless and so are your conclusions. You really have done the equivalent of convincing yourself that plants need noise to grow, due to your total ignorance of how to reliably determine such things.
Well, to that I say, live and learn from our experiences. That's what we're here for, and that's the exciting thing about all types of knowledge: that we can rise above our initial ignorance and change the world for the better. That is my self-appointed mission with TOBS. If the theory (yes I know I'm misusing the term, SV) must be modified or even discarded with new data, so be it. Again, it's a learning experience no matter if TOBS is true or not.

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 11:07 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
..........If the theory (yes I know I'm misusing the term, SV) must be modified or even discarded with new data, so be it......
Whilst this is ostensibly to be welcomed, you are setting up such barriers as to make yourself impervious to any such data. I can't foresee any way in which anything at all could convince you that you have got this wrong, such is your close-mindedness to all logic regarding the matter.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 11:09 AM   #249
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Here is a list of maladies I believe TOBS can cure or bring relief from:

Acne
Joint pain (hips, knees, elbows, wrists, fingers, etc.)
Arthritis
The common cold (coughing, throat clearing, runny nose, sneezing, etc.)
Sinus pain
Headache, fever
Burning sensation when urinating
Shortness of breath
Trouble swallowing
Chest pain/heart problems
Body moles
Mouth canker sores
Phantom limb pain
Stitches in sides of ribs
Fibromyalgia
Cramps/charly-horses
Excessive vomiting
Indigestion/diarrhea/constipation
Irritable bowel syndrome
Restless leg syndrome
Body itches/exzema
Insect/spider bites
Excessive body odor even right after a thorough soapy shower
Genital itch/excessive gas pains/farting/hemorrhoids
Irritable eyes
Excessive earwax/ringing and rushing in ears/tinnitis
Pain in back of neck
and dare I say cancer or AIDS?

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 11:13 AM   #250
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You missed Scrofulus.

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Old 2nd April 2017, 11:18 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
If the theory (yes I know I'm misusing the term, SV) must be modified or even discarded with new data, so be it.
Using the term "new" data implies you already have some "old"data. You do not. All you currently have are feelings, and an hypothesis which you have so far done nothing to properly test.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Here is a list of maladies I believe TOBS can cure or bring relief from:

Acne
Joint pain (hips, knees, elbows, wrists, fingers, etc.)
Arthritis
The common cold (coughing, throat clearing, runny nose, sneezing, etc.)
Sinus pain
Headache, fever
Burning sensation when urinating
Shortness of breath
Trouble swallowing
Chest pain/heart problems
Body moles
Mouth canker sores
Phantom limb pain
Stitches in sides of ribs
Fibromyalgia
Cramps/charly-horses
Excessive vomiting
Indigestion/diarrhea/constipation
Irritable bowel syndrome
Restless leg syndrome
Body itches/exzema
Insect/spider bites
Excessive body odor even right after a thorough soapy shower
Genital itch/excessive gas pains/farting/hemorrhoids
Irritable eyes
Excessive earwax/ringing and rushing in ears/tinnitis
Pain in back of neck
and dare I say cancer or AIDS?

bb
Your belief is baseless.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 11:27 AM   #252
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TOBS LESSON #1: JUSTICE AND MERCY IN THE UNIVERSE

I refer you to the following speech entitled "The Mediator":

https://www.lds.org/general-conferen...?lang=eng&_r=1

Comments and questions welcome, but only after you read the talk, please.

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 11:54 AM   #253
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How the hell are you supposed to tell the difference between god telling you off, and god curing your disease?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 12:08 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
How the hell are you supposed to tell the difference between god telling you off, and god curing your disease?
Cognitive bias. Your particular disease is cured? That was god. Your particular disease was not cured? You are a flawed sinner with insufficient faith.

Once one accepts the Judeo-Christian deity, excuses become incredibly easy.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 12:24 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
How the hell are you supposed to tell the difference between god telling you off, and god curing your disease?
When we repent of our sins--which all of us without exception must do to gain freedom from their painful consequences--God waits until our repentance is fully mature before forgiving us. He tempers Justice with Mercy, so we may have to go through a period of tribulation before being cured or "saved."

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 12:26 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
When we repent of our sins--which all of us without exception must do to gain freedom from their painful consequences--God waits until our repentance is fully mature before forgiving us. He tempers Justice with Mercy, so we may have to go through a period of tribulation before being cured or "saved."

bb
Is this on topic?

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Old 2nd April 2017, 12:33 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Here is a list of maladies I believe TOBS can cure or bring relief from:

Acne
Joint pain (hips, knees, elbows, wrists, fingers, etc.)
Arthritis
The common cold (coughing, throat clearing, runny nose, sneezing, etc.)
Sinus pain
Headache, fever
Burning sensation when urinating
Shortness of breath
Trouble swallowing
Chest pain/heart problems
Body moles
Mouth canker sores
Phantom limb pain
Stitches in sides of ribs
Fibromyalgia
Cramps/charly-horses
Excessive vomiting
Indigestion/diarrhea/constipation
Irritable bowel syndrome
Restless leg syndrome
Body itches/exzema
Insect/spider bites
Excessive body odor even right after a thorough soapy shower
Genital itch/excessive gas pains/farting/hemorrhoids
Irritable eyes
Excessive earwax/ringing and rushing in ears/tinnitis
Pain in back of neck
and dare I say cancer or AIDS?

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 12:33 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Beady View Post
Is this on topic?

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Yes. A correct understanding of the way Justice and Mercy work is important in the theory.

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 12:48 PM   #259
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Wow.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
When we repent of our sins--which all of us without exception must do to gain freedom from their painful consequences--
Unevidenced claim.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
God waits until our repentance is fully mature before forgiving us.
Unevidenced claim. And why exactly is your god unable to hand out forgiveness?

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
He tempers Justice with Mercy, so we may have to go through a period of tribulation before being cured or "saved."
Is your god that much of a dick? It turns out that yes, he/she/it/housecat really is.

Nevertheless, your god is quite happy to wheel out nervous twitches that can cure any damn thing. Sometimes. When he is in the mood or something.

Can you account for this disparity? Why did your god vanish for 2 thousand years? What? He didn't give a damn about all those countless generations who had NO PAIN CONTROL at all? He was waiting for you for some reason? Because what? What made YOU special?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 12:59 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Here is a list of maladies I believe TOBS can cure or bring relief from:

Acne
Joint pain (hips, knees, elbows, wrists, fingers, etc.)
Arthritis
The common cold (coughing, throat clearing, runny nose, sneezing, etc.)
Sinus pain
Headache, fever
Burning sensation when urinating
Shortness of breath
Trouble swallowing
Chest pain/heart problems
Body moles
Mouth canker sores
Phantom limb pain
Stitches in sides of ribs
Fibromyalgia
Cramps/charly-horses
Excessive vomiting
Indigestion/diarrhea/constipation
Irritable bowel syndrome
Restless leg syndrome
Body itches/exzema
Insect/spider bites
Excessive body odor even right after a thorough soapy shower
Genital itch/excessive gas pains/farting/hemorrhoids
Irritable eyes
Excessive earwax/ringing and rushing in ears/tinnitis
Pain in back of neck
and dare I say cancer or AIDS?

bb
A fine start. Now, I suggest, you contract one of each malady on the list and let the curing commence.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:07 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Here is a list of maladies I believe TOBS can cure or bring relief from:

Acne
Joint pain (hips, knees, elbows, wrists, fingers, etc.)
Arthritis
The common cold (coughing, throat clearing, runny nose, sneezing, etc.)
Sinus pain
Headache, fever
Burning sensation when urinating
Shortness of breath
Trouble swallowing
Chest pain/heart problems
Body moles
Mouth canker sores
Phantom limb pain
Stitches in sides of ribs
Fibromyalgia
Cramps/charly-horses
Excessive vomiting
Indigestion/diarrhea/constipation
Irritable bowel syndrome
Restless leg syndrome
Body itches/exzema
Insect/spider bites
Excessive body odor even right after a thorough soapy shower
Genital itch/excessive gas pains/farting/hemorrhoids
Irritable eyes
Excessive earwax/ringing and rushing in ears/tinnitis
Pain in back of neck
and dare I say cancer or AIDS
bb
I lost count of the visa applications I denied, where the applicant claimed to heal cancer. Cancer has got to be the single most - cured disease in the history of the world. No matter what your claim, you first have to be able to cure cancer for you to be taken seriously. The catch is, it must never be mentioned by the mainstream news media. Ever.


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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:11 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by Beady View Post
I lost count of the visa applications I denied, where the applicant claimed to heal cancer.
You're who does that?! I thought the world was damned for sure, but you just renewed my hope.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:15 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Yes. A correct understanding of the way Justice and Mercy work is important in the theory.

bb
The only thing important to your TOBS theory at the moment is objective evidence that it is correct. When, and only when, some is produced would it be appropriate to begin speculating about the how and why of it.

Even then the meanderings and unevidenced assertions in that LDS article would be of no value. Philosophical theories of justice and mercy are as far beyond the author of that childish drivel as the works of Shakespeare are beyond the author (nay, the typical reader) of a Janet and John book.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:19 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Wow.


Unevidenced claim.
unevidenced opinion

Quote:
Unevidenced claim. And why exactly is your god unable to hand out forgiveness?
Wisdom dictates that he waits until our repentance is full. Also, he cannot save us IN our sins, only FROM our sins.

Quote:
Nevertheless, your god is quite happy to wheel out nervous twitches that can cure any damn thing. Sometimes. When he is in the mood or something.
straw man

Quote:
Can you account for this disparity? Why did your god vanish for 2 thousand years? What? He didn't give a damn about all those countless generations who had NO PAIN CONTROL at all? He was waiting for you for some reason? Because what? What made YOU special?
Nothing--God is no respecter of persons. And he didn't vanish. Relief from BS pain is called "righteousness."

bb
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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:20 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
You're who does that?! I thought the world was damned for sure, but you just renewed my hope.
I did that. Retired now. I almost won one against Scientology, too, but they pulled it out at the last moment.

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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:30 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
unevidenced opinion
No. No it wasn't. You presented your opinion, and you presented no evidence in support of said opinion.


Quote:
Wisdom Religious dogma dictates that he waits until our repentance is full.
FTFY

Quote:
Nothing--God is no respecter of persons. And he didn't vanish.
Unevidence opinion


Quote:
Relief from BS pain is called "righteousness."wishful thinking
FTFY

Oh, and what's this crap about being a sinner, needing saving? I'm a pretty decent sort of bloke. I don't break important rules. I'll admit to pushing the button at a pedestrian crossing when I was a teenager, and then not crossing the road, but frankly, I can't see this anywhere in the 10 commandments. So cut out the bollocks of calling us sinners, thanks. That is the way you get enslaved by the church into inter-generational subservience.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:32 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by Beady View Post
I did that. Retired now. I almost won one against Scientology, too, but they pulled it out at the last moment.
I speak no less than true when I say you're one of my heroes.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:35 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Also, he cannot save us IN our sins, only FROM our sins.
Ooh, technical details!

How about partially under our sin? No? Alongside?

I think we need more details.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:42 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
FTFY
Whatever that means....

Quote:
and what's this crap about being a sinner, needing saving? I'm a pretty decent sort of bloke. I don't break important rules. I'll admit to pushing the button at a pedestrian crossing when I was a teenager, and then not crossing the road, but frankly, I can't see this anywhere in the 10 commandments. So cut out the bollocks of calling us sinners, thanks. That is the way you get enslaved by the church into inter-generational subservience.
"All men sin, and all fall short of the glory of God," and "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." That's wonderful that you are keeping the commandments though.

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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:47 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Whatever that means....
FTFY - Ah...Finessed That For You.


Quote:
"All men sin, and all fall short of the glory of God," and "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us." That's wonderful that you are keeping the commandments though.
One can only sin under the watch of a god you accept; the lack of which means there's no possible sin. Humanist ethics do not waste their time with fairy tales.

It's wonderful that you are keeping the bar so low.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:48 PM   #271
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FTFY.....fixed that for you.

Keeping the commandments? Apart from the bollocks about worshipping only the one god, the idols stuff, and so on. The others aren't all that difficult, particularly as I have never coveted my neighbour's ass. Indeed, I don't recall any neighbour ever having an ass, so there is that.

No, all men do not sin. This is the very essence of your incarceration in the straitjacket of religious dogma. Anyone who accepts this concept is doomed. Free yourself from the nonsense, stop flogging yourself, and enjoy life free from guilt.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:48 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Donn View Post
Ooh, technical details!

How about partially under our sin? No? Alongside?

I think we need more details.
Salvation is a process, not a single moment. I've heard the phrase "partially saved" before, referring to young LDS missionaries. This I believe.

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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:51 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Salvation is a process, not a single moment. I've heard the phrase "partially saved" before, referring to young LDS missionaries. This I believe.
Your further detail has not increased the resolution, I am sorry to report.

Partially saved means some bytes made it to the drive. You probably lost the file.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:51 PM   #274
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You realise that preaching at us doesn't really fit within the topic of the thread? All this bronze-age goat-herder campfire chat stuff will end up being dumped in AAH.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:54 PM   #275
Billy Baxter
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
FTFY.....fixed that for you.

Keeping the commandments? Apart from the bollocks about worshipping only the one god, the idols stuff, and so on. The others aren't all that difficult, particularly as I have never coveted my neighbour's ass. Indeed, I don't recall any neighbour ever having an ass, so there is that.

No, all men do not sin. This is the very essence of your incarceration in the straitjacket of religious dogma. Anyone who accepts this concept is doomed. Free yourself from the nonsense, stop flogging yourself, and enjoy life free from guilt.
It's healthy and honest to realize that you sin at times. "Acknowledge thy unworthiness at all times...."

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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:54 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
unevidenced opinion
Wrong. You have presented no evidence at all. Do not attempt to pretend you have done so.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Wisdom dictates that he waits until our repentance is full. Also, he cannot save us IN our sins, only FROM our sins.
What bollocks. Your god could come up with nothing better than to temporarily sacrifice himself to himself for the transgressions that he artificially created in the first place.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
straw man
Cannot be. It is your very claim. Are you stating that your own claim is a man of straw?

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Nothing--God is no respecter of persons.
Honesty at last. That explains why your god is down with owning people as property.

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
And he didn't vanish.
Oh? Where has he been?

Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Relief from BS pain is called "righteousness."

bb
No that is called analgesia.
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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:56 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
FTFY.....fixed that for you.

Keeping the commandments? Apart from the bollocks about worshipping only the one god, the idols stuff, and so on. The others aren't all that difficult, particularly as I have never coveted my neighbour's ass. Indeed, I don't recall any neighbour ever having an ass, so there is that.


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Old 2nd April 2017, 01:59 PM   #278
Billy Baxter
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
You realise that preaching at us doesn't really fit within the topic of the thread? All this bronze-age goat-herder campfire chat stuff will end up being dumped in AAH.
Understanding TOBS requires some background knowledge. You'll see where all this is going shortly. I'll post one TOBS lesson each day.

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Old 2nd April 2017, 02:03 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by Billy Baxter View Post
Understanding TOBS requires some background knowledge. You'll see where all this is going shortly. I'll post one TOBS lesson each day.

bb
Are you a robot?
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Old 2nd April 2017, 02:06 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Wrong. You have presented no evidence at all. Do not attempt to pretend you have done so.

What bollocks. Your god could come up with nothing better than to temporarily sacrifice himself to himself for the transgressions that he artificially created in the first place.
straw man--the law of Justice requires that all sin be punished. Thanks to Jesus' Atonement, forgiveness is possible. God himself cannot change the Law of Justice.

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