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#201 |
Meandering fecklessly
Join Date: Dec 2008
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#202 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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Thanks for the update on x-rays. I'll admit I was not up to date on my info. So it appears that over nine tenths of the harder x-ray background have distinct sources, although some are unresolved. The other tenth may come from very early black holes. Good to know. Hydrino formation produces more in the soft x-ray and UV. https://arxiv.org/abs/1404.5714 "The Mystery of the Cosmic Diffuse Ultraviolet Background Radiation" And more generally, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffus...ound_radiation "The diffuse extragalactic background radiation (DEBRA) refers to the diffuse photon field from extragalactic origin that fill our Universe. It contains photons over ∼ 20 decades of energy from ~10−7 eV to ~100 GeV. The origin and the physical processes involved are different within every wavelength range. ... The nature and history of the universe is coded in this radiation field and any realistic cosmological model must be able to describe it. Understanding the DEBRA is a major challenge of modern cosmology with huge consequences in other fields of astrophysics, therefore extraordinary efforts are being put by theoreticians, observers, and instrumentalists to do so." |
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#203 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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#204 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,354
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What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it.... |
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#205 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 692
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Since you're back, don't forget that you have stated that ro-vibrational transitions of hydrinos can be stimulated in the lab (if you know how to do it) and can be detected in the lab. In fact you claim that not only can they be stimulated in the lab but they can be stimulated to the extent that the transitions can lase. You also said that the specific stimulations are unlikely to occur in nature and so we are unlikely to see those ro-vibrational transition lines when we look to the sky. I asked you several times to tell us what the specific stimulation regime is that pumps these ro-vibrational transitions so that we can check a) whether they can be used in a laser and b) whether they are indeed unlikely in the cosmos. So far, crickets. It would be very good of you to answer the question - how, specifically, do you stimulate ro-vibrational transitions of hydrinos?
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#206 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Just short of Zeta II Reticuli
Posts: 1,343
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#207 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,559
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Is there a June/July 2017 prediction re BLP in this thread? Either by a Mills booster or from BLP/promo source?
I know the OP (ms) had a Feb/Mar 2017 one, and we all know how that panned out ... ![]() |
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#208 |
Meandering fecklessly
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,571
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#209 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 692
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As others pointed out this is a God of the gaps argument, and like a creationist, you don't seem to read or understand the papers you cite. Quite apart from the fact that this paper acknowledges that the bulk of the FUV background is recognised as being caused by stellar light scattered by ISM dust and grains, the mysterious portion that they report has a flat spectrum from 130nm to 170nm (the spectral range of GALEX) and its origin is galactic. But according to Mills, hydrino formation emits EM radiation in multiples of 27.2eV, so 27.2eV, 54.4eV, 81.6eV and so on. So the spectrum of hydrino formation from a galactic source should show distinct lines at those energies and not a flat spectrum. But what is worse for you is 27.2eV is 45.6nm, 54.4eV is 22.8nm and 81.6eV is 15.2nm and the higher multiples of 27.2eV are obviously at shorter and shorter wavelengths. Therefore the longest wavelength produced by hydrino formation is 45.6nm which is far shorter than the FUV waveband (130nm - 170nm) considered in this paper. This paper is therefore totally irrelevant to the discussion. So where will your next God of the gaps argument come from?
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#210 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 80,929
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#211 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,286
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Given the current state of Hydrino "science" presented here, and the endless failed incidents of Mills "enthusiasm" about an imminent commercial product over the last 30 years or so, I now present the current state of the Mills defense of his claims in pictorial form:
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#212 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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Finally took a look at the (granted) patent. Not pleasant reading. Here's a quote from section 49:
Quote:
Patent can be viewed at https://patentimages.storage.googlea.../US7773656.pdf |
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#213 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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I didn't read the paper, just the abstract. Anyway, if you knew more about Mills' theory and experimental findings you would know that hydrino formation is not about "distinct lines" at multiples of 27.2 eV. Rather, those energies serve as cutoffs. The light is emitted as continuum radiation down to that cutoff. If I knew more about Mill's theory I would know the distribution of that continuum radiation up to the cutoffs. To the best of my knowledge it varies with the experimental conditions. Furthermore, rather than continuum photon emission, sometimes it is fast hydrino that carries off the energy from hydrino formation.
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#214 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,286
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You've claimed an awful lot of x-ray generation in your description of Hydrino information. The problem is, the generators being displayed don't have sufficient shielding to protect people from the x-ray generation. Are you wrong about the x-ray generation, or is Mills trying to promote a generator that will slowly kill the people using it with radiation poisoning? |
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#215 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,559
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If I were going to pursue this, to see if there was a "gap" which "hydrinos" might fill, I'd be interested in the part of the electromagnetic spectrum (EM spectrum) between the UV (i.e. blue-ward of the 130nm blue limit of GALEX), and the x-ray region (where the "gap" pretty much vanished in the last decade or two).
As all the other parts of the EM spectrum have names, perhaps this one does too? A bit of googling quickly turns up "extreme ultraviolet", or EUVWP. In the "See also" section, the first item is Extreme Ultraviolet Explorer, a link to a different WP entry. At the bottom are four External links, well worth checking them out, eh? One has a nice set of bullet points, under Science Highlights, near the bottom:
Hmm, something seems odd ... the EUVE spent years scanning the sky, it's a telescope, how come it found only 801 objects? There are vastly more UV sources (per GALEX) and x-ray ones (per XMM-Newton, Chandra, Swift, ...). Of course, EUVE is considerably older than any of those, so maybe it just wasn't sensitive enough? This MAST EUVE page, clickable from a link in the EUVE WP, has links to rather a lot of NASA, and some non-NASA, missions, many of which seem to cover the x-ray, EUV, and/or UV parts of the EM spectrum. There aren't many which seem to cover the EUV, but those which do/did also seem to report very few sources (compared with those observing in the UV and x-ray regions). Sure, there are lots of observations of the Sun, and a few of other solar system bodies. Maybe hydrinos, filling space fairly uniformly, actually absorb EUV rather than emit it? Maybe there's continuum absorption up to "the cutoffs"? Hydrinos as an explanation for another astronomical ![]() What do you think, my fellow ISF members; is markie onto something? ![]() Oh, and arXiv isn't much help this time; most of the EUVE papers would have been published before it became a place to find just about any astronomy preprint ... |
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#216 |
Meandering fecklessly
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,571
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Let me see if I'm following this: apparently Mills claimed that the Hydrinos™ had x properties that, fifteen-ish years ago weren't actually known, but in the mean time, those properties have been explored and explained and now markie is here saying that Mills didn't really mean x properties, but really y properties and that currently y properties are as of yet unknown?
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#217 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,354
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What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it.... |
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#218 |
Meandering fecklessly
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#219 |
Muse
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 875
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Wait. If hydrino formation emitted energy due to a hydrogen atom going from an "ordinary" orbital state to the special hydrino ground state, then that would be emitted as a very specific bands. So does hydrino formation supposedly involve a bare proton (H+) capturing a free electron, with the free electron going directly to the special hydrino ground state?
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#220 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 692
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Well, you should really read papers that you cite, or at least scan the body to make sure that they actually support your argument, since obviously this one does not.
Quote:
Could it be that Mills has invented the idea of a continuum out of whole cloth to mask the conspicuous absence of lines at multiples of 13.6eV in any of his experiments? Surely not. As you know more about Mills's theory than I do, perhaps you'll point us at an explanation or justification for a continuum spectrum for radiation arising from the decay of a hydrogen atom from its fixed energy ground state to some lower fixed energy state?
Quote:
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#221 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,993
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#222 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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No. Mills isn't changing his tune. I had been talking about diffuse cosmic em radiation that was anomalously high, and as an off-the-cuff example I mentioned diffuse x-rays because (in the past) it was well known they were anomalously high. Turns out they have now mostly been accounted for. Don't pin that on Mills, pin it on me for not being up to speed. |
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#223 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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Hydrino formation involves a ground state neutral hydrogen atom losing some energy to a catalyst by a resonant coupling process, becoming destabilized, then losing more energy to become a hydrino. While the electron's radius is decreasing to a smaller size, it constitutes an accelerating charge, and like an accelerating charge it radiates in continuum fashion.
The specific bands that normal excited hydrogen emits is from a different mechanism according to Mills. Long story short, the electron bubble constitutes a resonator cavity and as such has the ability to trap photons as long as the photon energy is resonantly compatible with the electron size. In a word, an excited hydrogen electron is coupled with a trapped photon(s), and upon relaxation the trapped photon is released as a single discrete energy packet. |
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#224 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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For sure a fixed thin line would be easy to detect, and I suppose the absence of such lines is why the hydrino has not been suspected in the past. But a continuum cutoff at multiples of 13.6eV is still detectable. Perhaps if there are multiple cutoffs at multiples of 13.6eV it masks each cutoff except for the highest energy (lowest wavelength) cutoff. |
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#225 |
Muse
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 692
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Yeah, this sort of deliberately obscure disclosure to throw people, including the examiner, off the scent is not uncommon.
Quote:
This embodiment is not even included in the claims, which of course is the most important part of the patent, and the only aspects that are actually protected. Nothing in this patent answers my question. Let me ask it again: you have stated that ro-vibrational transitions of hydrinos can be stimulated in the lab (if you know how to do it) and can be detected in the lab. In fact you claim that not only can they be stimulated in the lab but they can be stimulated to the extent that the transitions can lase. You also said that the specific stimulations are unlikely to occur in nature and so we are unlikely to see those ro-vibrational transition lines when we look to the sky. I asked you several times to tell us what the specific stimulation regime is that pumps these ro-vibrational transitions so that we can check a) whether they can be used in a laser and b) whether they are indeed unlikely in the cosmos. All the patent says is the stimulation is via a particle beam, microwave, glow or RF discharge (claim 6). The particle beam energy ranges from 0.1 to 100MeV. The current ranges from 0.1 microamps to 1,000 amps and the power is from 0.01W/cm3 to 100W/cm3. (Claims 8, 9 and 21). Doesn't answer the question. |
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#226 |
Muse
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 875
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If when an electron drops from a higher to lower orbital it isn't creating a new photon, but rather releasing a trapped photon, wouldn't that imply that an electron can't drop from a higher orbital to a lower-but-not-ground orbital? If it could, then it the excited atom could release two different photons with different wavelengths than the trapped photon.
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#227 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 19,808
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This game will continue for a long time. Mills and Co. will always have a new script ready to placate, and money will keep coming in, and no working device will ever appear. Supporters will keep making excuses for Mils.
No believer will ever try to produce a working device, despite it's constant "off the shelf" description. Many years from now, Mills will be remembered by a few believers as a persecuted scientist with a suppressed device that the gov't and the oil companies stifled. |
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What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing. 2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break? |
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#228 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 26,242
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Another point is that this patent issued on Aug. 10, 2010. After so many years of trying to get so many patents, spamming offices world-wide with increasing lengthy patent applications, and arguing over and over again that his technology not only works, but has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to work, has he actually done anything with this patent? He's had almost 7 years now, not counting the time when the application was merely pending. Has he built and sold any such laser? Has he designed any such laser, and subcontracted out the manufacture and sales? Has he licensed anyone else to design, build or sell any such laser? Applying for patents is not cheap, and with the size and complexity of his applications, they're likely on the higher end of the cost scale. He's probably spent hundreds of thousands of dollars just on his US applications alone. So what is he doing to monetize this patent? If the answer is "nothing", then we have to wonder what the point of it all was. |
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#229 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,993
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#230 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 21,517
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8 May 2017 markie: A lie of no distinct spectral lines at multiples of 27.2 eV in Mills' theory.
The imaginary fractional quantum states in Mills theory gives distinct spectral lines just as the integer quantum states do ![]() ETA: The ignorant fantasies are the later posts with gibberish about catalysts, etc. which lead to the stupidity that hydrogen does not have any spectral lines. Mills delusions apply to n > 0 as well has his imaginary fractional states. If we have electrons as "orbitspheres" then catalysts are needed for all electron states. |
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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#231 |
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 28,100
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I'd like to hope we'd one day, reasonably soon, see the end of this obvious charade, but it seems they will continue to discover new and unique methods of flogging a deceased equine.
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#232 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 6,993
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#233 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,286
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Do you think BLP will launch a Kickstarter? It would be fascinating to see fragmentation where a Mills fan brakes off and decides they're sick and tired of the serial failures and starts their OWN business to commercialize Hydrino tech. As we've already seen, the BLP "patents" are largely unenforceable. Anyone could easily do what they like without facing any real legal threat from Mills. Mills could sue, but the condition of the patents would make it the shortest patent lawsuit in history. |
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#234 |
Muse
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 875
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If I understand correctly, Mills' idea gets rid of quantum leaps of electrons between higher/lower orbitals by claiming that normally the electron in a hydrogen atom always stays in the same orbit, and instead the hydrogen atom traps/releases photons of frequencies that the hydrogen atom "resonates" with, with these resonances being hydrogen's spectral lines. Further (according to Mills) the change from normal hydrogen to hydrino is the only change in orbital that the hydrogen's electron is capable of making, but it's a non-quantum change, with the electron classically passing through all of the space between the ordinary ground state orbit and the hydrino orbit, with the acceleration involved in classically changing orbits being the cause of hydrino formation emitting photons, and also the acceleration causing photons is why the photons are a continuum rather than spectral lines.
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#235 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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This is a good point, and one I don't recall being addressed. Clearly, Mills knows about electron transitions from excited hydrogen states to lower, but still excited states. (In Chapter 2 he predicts the mean lifetimes and line intensities for those transitions -Balmer, Paschen, and more.) I'm 'guessing' that the trapped photon, which is variously interpreted as a "standing electromagnetic wave" along the inside surface of the orbitsphere, is partition-able. Either that, or the trapped photon can also be regarded as composed of superimposed photons of lesser energy. Will try to get back to you with a more definitive reply on that. |
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#236 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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Mills knows the difference between doppler broadening of known hydrogen lines, and continuum radiation from hydrino formation.
As a point of correction to a previous post: I had said that the energy release from hydrino formation can be in the form of fast hydrino, not just continuum radiation. I meant fast hydrogen, not fast hydrino. This fast hydrogen is responsible for selective doppler broadening of hydrogen lines, which Mills et al have described in multiple experiments. |
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#237 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 21,517
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Mills is an ignorant and deluded crank:
Part I: 37 items of ignorance, delusions and lies in Mills book Part II: 24 items of ignorance, delusions and lies in Mills book Part III: 18 items of ignorance, delusions and lies in Mills book My comment was about a lie about his delusions, 8 May 2017 markie: A lie of no distinct spectral lines at multiples of 27.2 eV in Mills' theory. 12 April 2017 markie: How do beta decay electrons get thru multiple "orbitspheres"? (and other questions and items of ignorance). 12 April 2017 markie: A 2012 paper showing a Mills lie about spectra and conventional explanations for them (no hydrinos need apply!) |
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#238 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 21,517
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NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter (another observation) (and Abell 520) Electric comets still do not exist! |
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#239 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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#240 |
Muse
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 724
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