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Old 17th June 2017, 12:07 PM   #1
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Best way to lose faith is to read the Bible

I was raised in the church. I went to Sunday School and services every Sunday. I went to Vacation Bible School in the summer and Bible camp as a teenager. I was involved in church activities all the way through college. But in all that time I doubt I had read more than a few chapters/books from start to finish. What i had read was almost all from the New Testament and even more specifically the Gospels.

I felt that I had been cheating my faith. After all, I had read War and Peace and many other big books. Shouldn't I commit myself to reading all of God's holy word? So I did. And the more I read, the more I hated it and the more I started to disbelieve. By the time I finished it I was an atheist.

I have heard other atheists tell similar stories. The Old Testament is so horrible and disgusting that I wouldn't want to have anything to do with God even if he did exist. I'm convinced that the best way to get people to turn away from this religion is for them to just read about Jephthah, Saul, Joshua and the non stop evil atrocities.

Does this sound familiar? Am I wrong?
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Old 17th June 2017, 02:37 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I was raised in the church. I went to Sunday School and services every Sunday. I went to Vacation Bible School in the summer and Bible camp as a teenager. I was involved in church activities all the way through college. But in all that time I doubt I had read more than a few chapters/books from start to finish. What i had read was almost all from the New Testament and even more specifically the Gospels.

I felt that I had been cheating my faith. After all, I had read War and Peace and many other big books. Shouldn't I commit myself to reading all of God's holy word? So I did. And the more I read, the more I hated it and the more I started to disbelieve. By the time I finished it I was an atheist.

I have heard other atheists tell similar stories. The Old Testament is so horrible and disgusting that I wouldn't want to have anything to do with God even if he did exist. I'm convinced that the best way to get people to turn away from this religion is for them to just read about Jephthah, Saul, Joshua and the non stop evil atrocities.

Does this sound familiar? Am I wrong?
Nope. Hatloads of people follow that particular trajectory. Unfortunately, there are also those who think the bible should be implemented as written (choose your version)
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Old 17th June 2017, 02:45 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I was raised in the church. I went to Sunday School and services every Sunday. I went to Vacation Bible School in the summer and Bible camp as a teenager. I was involved in church activities all the way through college. But in all that time I doubt I had read more than a few chapters/books from start to finish. What i had read was almost all from the New Testament and even more specifically the Gospels.

I felt that I had been cheating my faith. After all, I had read War and Peace and many other big books. Shouldn't I commit myself to reading all of God's holy word? So I did. And the more I read, the more I hated it and the more I started to disbelieve. By the time I finished it I was an atheist.

I have heard other atheists tell similar stories. The Old Testament is so horrible and disgusting that I wouldn't want to have anything to do with God even if he did exist. I'm convinced that the best way to get people to turn away from this religion is for them to just read about Jephthah, Saul, Joshua and the non stop evil atrocities.

Does this sound familiar? Am I wrong?

Yes indeed I have heard this before. I have not read all of the Bible (in any of it's versions), but enough to make me feel quite bilious.

I have read of surveys showing the level knowledge of the faithful, of Biblical contents, to be dramatically lacking and somewhat less than that of many atheists.
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Old 17th June 2017, 02:58 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Yes indeed I have heard this before. I have not read all of the Bible (in any of it's versions), but enough to make me feel quite bilious.

I have read of surveys showing the level knowledge of the faithful, of Biblical contents, to be dramatically lacking and somewhat less than that of many atheists.
Oh right, you just got the Readers Digest version (the bible bashers will say) You need to see my version of the whole thing and whatever context I choose to put on it (pardon me while I handwave away the awkward parts).

Well, I have read it cover to cover and I can tell you that it does not get better. It gets worse. Anyone with their brain in gear would be horrified. It always amuses me when the religious bemoan the amount of sex on TV and I always have the same response, make them read their bible instead of watching. Without exception, they will nod sagely. Much better. Then I point out the outrageous sex in the bible.

Then the fun starts.
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Old 17th June 2017, 03:42 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Oh right, you just got the Readers Digest version (the bible bashers will say) You need to see my version of the whole thing and whatever context I choose to put on it (pardon me while I handwave away the awkward parts).

Well, I have read it cover to cover and I can tell you that it does not get better. It gets worse. Anyone with their brain in gear would be horrified. It always amuses me when the religious bemoan the amount of sex on TV and I always have the same response, make them read their bible instead of watching. Without exception, they will nod sagely. Much better. Then I point out the outrageous sex in the bible.

Then the fun starts.
It makes the movie 'Saw' seem like a kiddie movie. The God of the Bible is a violent stalker who loves you so much that he will torture you for eternity just because you don't believe what he failed to provide evidence for.

I met a couple last year hiking who felt the need to share the 'good news about how God loved me' after I had hiked to the top of Mt St Helena in California. At first I wanted to kill them for this. The last thing I wanted to hear after a long tough hike was their proselytising. But I was polite, but I decided I was going to tell them what I really thought of their God. I don't think they were prepared for my pushback.

I said God was not moral for the genocide in the Old Testament and heaven and hell in the New Testament. What right did God have to do all this I challenge them. 'He created you' was their reply. In their minds God created me and could do whatever he wanted with me.

But I was having none of that. I said 'no', it's still wrong.
By their rational, they should be able to kill their children any time they wanted. I really can't fathom why anyone would say God is moral.
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Old 17th June 2017, 05:21 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It makes the movie 'Saw' seem like a kiddie movie. The God of the Bible is a violent stalker who loves you so much that he will torture you for eternity just because you don't believe what he failed to provide evidence for.

I met a couple last year hiking who felt the need to share the 'good news about how God loved me' after I had hiked to the top of Mt St Helena in California. At first I wanted to kill them for this. The last thing I wanted to hear after a long tough hike was their proselytising. But I was polite, but I decided I was going to tell them what I really thought of their God. I don't think they were prepared for my pushback.

I said God was not moral for the genocide in the Old Testament and heaven and hell in the New Testament. What right did God have to do all this I challenge them. 'He created you' was their reply. In their minds God created me and could do whatever he wanted with me.

But I was having none of that. I said 'no', it's still wrong.
By their rational, they should be able to kill their children any time they wanted. I really can't fathom why anyone would say God is moral.
Oh what the hell, I deconverted a doorstep JW with these very arguments. Her elder was a bit miffed to say the least. Theres a kind of thing that goes on. The whole "you are of satan" deal is hilarious, but people really believe it.
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Old 17th June 2017, 05:27 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I was raised in the church. I went to Sunday School and services every Sunday. I went to Vacation Bible School in the summer and Bible camp as a teenager. I was involved in church activities all the way through college. But in all that time I doubt I had read more than a few chapters/books from start to finish. What i had read was almost all from the New Testament and even more specifically the Gospels.

I felt that I had been cheating my faith. After all, I had read War and Peace and many other big books. Shouldn't I commit myself to reading all of God's holy word? So I did. And the more I read, the more I hated it and the more I started to disbelieve. By the time I finished it I was an atheist.

I have heard other atheists tell similar stories. The Old Testament is so horrible and disgusting that I wouldn't want to have anything to do with God even if he did exist. I'm convinced that the best way to get people to turn away from this religion is for them to just read about Jephthah, Saul, Joshua and the non stop evil atrocities.

Does this sound familiar? Am I wrong?
It's a good way to lose faith in Christianity.
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Old 17th June 2017, 05:28 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
(much snipped)
But I was having none of that. I said 'no', it's still wrong.
By their rational, they should be able to kill their children any time they wanted. I really can't fathom why anyone would say God is moral.
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Oh what the hell, I deconverted a doorstep JW with these very arguments.
We do not "create" children, although abortion advocates would have it so. The analogy is seriously flawed.
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Old 17th June 2017, 05:52 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
We do not "create" children, although abortion advocates would have it so.

Maybe guys don't...
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Old 17th June 2017, 07:36 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
We do not "create" children, although abortion advocates would have it so. The analogy is seriously flawed.
Neither does God.



I really don't care one way or the other. The rational that God by the virtue of creating us can torture man for all of eternity because we don't believe is inherently immoral. The idea that because he is supposedly the creator of man is not a justification. If you read Exodus it seems as if God says it's OK for parents to have their children stoned.
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Old 17th June 2017, 07:55 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Neither does God.



I really don't care one way or the other. The rational that God by the virtue of creating us can torture man for all of eternity because we don't believe is inherently immoral. The idea that because he is supposedly the creator of man is not a justification. If you read Exodus it seems as if God says it's OK for parents to have their children stoned.
You've heard about heaven, right? You know, the afterlife?
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Old 17th June 2017, 08:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
You've heard about heaven, right? You know, the afterlife?
We were talking about all the atrocities that God did throughout the bible and hell, his eternal torture chamber. Are you saying that because God made heaven for gullible sycophants, it justifies the burning and torturing for forever for those who's only offense was not believing in a being that provided as much evidence for his existence as leprechauns and Sasquatch?
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Old 17th June 2017, 08:14 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
We were talking about all the atrocities that God did throughout the bible and hell, his eternal torture chamber. Are you saying that because God made heaven for gullible sycophants, it justifies the burning and torturing for forever for those who's only offense was not believing in a being that provided as much evidence for his existence as leprechauns and Sasquatch?
Without the flowery phrasing, yes.
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Old 17th June 2017, 08:29 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
Without the flowery phrasing, yes.
Well that's why the God of the Bible is not moral and why I don't want anything to do with him.

Loving God,....LMAO.
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Old 17th June 2017, 08:43 PM   #15
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Many of us deconverted as a result of an increased interest in the bible, and subsequent research. For me, it was not specifically the old testament barbarism, but questions of doctrine.

The core of Christianity is that acceptance of God was necessary to avoid hellfire for eternity. Along with belief in God, it was important to trust the word of God (the Bible) and the church that represented God (I was Catholic), and while no one would presume to say exactly who went to Heaven and who went to Hell, they were very clear that the wrong beliefs were, at least, a good way to get on the path to Hell, and maybe they were enough to cast you into the pit.

So, I had that in my head as I read the old testament, and it was very clear to me that the old testament taught a very different doctrine than the Catholic Church, or pretty much any Christian denomination. This was unsettling to me. Those souls were saved and damned just like the ones after the coming of Christ. The explanations I read all relied on the idea that, sure,, there was some stuff wrong in the old testament, but that's because God didn't reveal everything important until Jesus came along.

So these pre-Christian souls were being saved and damned, but they were playing with a faulty rulebook that was teaching them wrong doctrine that wouldn't be sorted out for hundreds of years.....except that those faulty books would still be held up as the guidebook to the proper beliefs necessary to achieve salvation.


It didn't make sense to me. The kicker came in the Book of Ecclesiastes. A simple, straightforward reading of the plain text would say that there is no afterlife. And this was the inspired word of God? And guidebook to all that was true?

I decided it wasn't, and rejected God entirely.

(And now I participate in Jewish ceremony and community,but I don't believe. I generally have a positive view of religion, which I suppose is ironic given my beliefs, but that's the way it is for me.
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Old 17th June 2017, 08:46 PM   #16
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Things started to unravel for me right after learning the Ten commandments.
I thought: if I had to make up only ten rules for humanity to live by, I wouldn't waste four on praising God and what he did.
I wouldn't put "don't murder" on 6th place behind honoring my parents.
And asking people not to "covet" shows an astounding lack of understanding of human nature.
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Old 17th June 2017, 08:49 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Well that's why the God of the Bible is not moral and why I don't want anything to do with him.

Loving God,....LMAO.
Something something parent analogy, Something something verse, Something something grand scheme.
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Old 17th June 2017, 09:12 PM   #18
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One doesn't need to read their books to lose faith in a religion, all one has to do is observe the behavior of the faithful.
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Old 17th June 2017, 09:15 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Many of us deconverted as a result of an increased interest in the bible, and subsequent research. For me, it was not specifically the old testament barbarism, but questions of doctrine.

The core of Christianity is that acceptance of God was necessary to avoid hellfire for eternity. Along with belief in God, it was important to trust the word of God (the Bible) and the church that represented God (I was Catholic), and while no one would presume to say exactly who went to Heaven and who went to Hell, they were very clear that the wrong beliefs were, at least, a good way to get on the path to Hell, and maybe they were enough to cast you into the pit.

So, I had that in my head as I read the old testament, and it was very clear to me that the old testament taught a very different doctrine than the Catholic Church, or pretty much any Christian denomination. This was unsettling to me. Those souls were saved and damned just like the ones after the coming of Christ. The explanations I read all relied on the idea that, sure,, there was some stuff wrong in the old testament, but that's because God didn't reveal everything important until Jesus came along.

So these pre-Christian souls were being saved and damned, but they were playing with a faulty rulebook that was teaching them wrong doctrine that wouldn't be sorted out for hundreds of years.....except that those faulty books would still be held up as the guidebook to the proper beliefs necessary to achieve salvation.


It didn't make sense to me. The kicker came in the Book of Ecclesiastes. A simple, straightforward reading of the plain text would say that there is no afterlife. And this was the inspired word of God? And guidebook to all that was true?

I decided it wasn't, and rejected God entirely.

(And now I participate in Jewish ceremony and community,but I don't believe. I generally have a positive view of religion, which I suppose is ironic given my beliefs, but that's the way it is for me.
I'm not sure what it is but I have met more Jewish atheists lately. The bizarre part of that from my view is you can't really get away with that so easily in Christian churches. It's like the people of the most barbaric of all the religions are by far the most enlightened these days. I mean Judaism as it was once practiced made Islam look like a Sunday picnic. And today, it's like every Jewish person I meet is kind and smart and not so attached to the silliness of their religion. There is something less coercive about modern Judaism. You're almost Buddhist.
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Old 18th June 2017, 02:56 AM   #20
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Not for me. It wasn't because of the Bible that I stopped going to church.
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Old 18th June 2017, 03:45 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
We do not "create" children, although abortion advocates would have it so. The analogy is seriously flawed.
Then does God "create" the children that come from women's wombs? But the women don't create them? Moreover God justly has the power to torture them while their mothers very rightly don't. How does that make any sense?
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Old 18th June 2017, 04:44 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Then does God "create" the children that come from women's wombs? But the women don't create them?
How God does it is a good question for a developmental biologist. As for the role of the mother, she participates but doesn't create. Until modern times a woman couldn't even tell if she was carrying a boy or a girl. Presumably this was never a mystery for God.

Quote:
Moreover God justly has the power to torture them while their mothers very rightly don't. How does that make any sense?
God is not subject to our moral understandings. Heck, we can't even decide among ourselves what constitutes torture. The best we can seem to do is something like the Golden Rule, in the form of "Well, I wouldn't like it if it happened to me." And that doesn't impose our morality on God. All it does is push forward a moral preference. Remember, this is God we are talking about, not some mook down the block who stole a couple of bucks from the local Arby's. It's simple hubris to think otherwise.
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Old 18th June 2017, 06:02 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm not sure what it is but I have met more Jewish atheists lately. The bizarre part of that from my view is you can't really get away with that so easily in Christian churches. It's like the people of the most barbaric of all the religions are by far the most enlightened these days. I mean Judaism as it was once practiced made Islam look like a Sunday picnic. And today, it's like every Jewish person I meet is kind and smart and not so attached to the silliness of their religion. There is something less coercive about modern Judaism. You're almost Buddhist.
I called myself a Buddhist for a few years before I got married and started going along with Judaism.

Judaism has more in common with Buddhism than it has with Christianity.

In the new testament, there is an awful lot of discussion of faith versus works, and which one was more important, and how they worked together. As a Christian, I never understood those passages. After a few years of learning about Judaism, and seeing it practiced, I got it.

Faith isn't important in Judaism. Oh, sure, you can find people who will disagree, but, pretty much, it's works. And not just any works, but ritual observance is particularly important. And what's the point of all that ritual? Is it really sinful to eat a lobster? No. All of that ritual is about being constantly aware of the presence of God, but God is a voice inside you. It's the stuff of the universe. And all of that is very Buddhist.

Of course, back in the days of Moses and Aaron, they were a little bit more into killing people who didn't go along, but things change. Put Jews in charge of things and give them real power and they would undoubtedly start abusing their power, but that's human nature, not anything inherent in the religion.
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Old 18th June 2017, 06:14 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
God is not subject to our moral understandings.
Indeed. To refer to Buddhism once more, The Buddha was asked whether God existed and his response (short version) was that a finite mind (us) could not possibly know anything about an infinite mind (God).

This includes whether or not God exists, or, if He does exist, anything about what such a being might want us to do.

Leaving the Buddha behind, we have no such limitation on our own moral understanding. The OP is making the point that our own moral standing does not fit with the teaching found in the Bible. Moreover, to my point, it appears contradictory in parts anyway.

So, we can accept it on faith that the Bible is the inspired word of God, and that anything in it which clashes with our own moral compass must be due to a failing in our moral compass, and anything which appears to contradict itself must be a failure of our comprehension, or we can look at it an conclude it is a disconnected series of ancient texts which somehow got thrown together to make a religion (or two or three). Those religions largely held sway for so long due to an illiterate and uninformed populace not realizing what was actually in the text. As they read it and realize what it actually says, more and more people reject it.
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Old 18th June 2017, 06:48 AM   #25
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If we have to accept the Bible "on Faith", the question becomes one of utility: does following the Bible according to current interpretations yield better or worse results than following another religion or no religion at all.
It seems to me that the current fad for meditation represent a minimalistic approach to religion that hopes to retain the essentials of spirituality.
Not sure it'll work though.
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Old 18th June 2017, 08:20 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I called myself a Buddhist for a few years before I got married and started going along with Judaism.

Judaism has more in common with Buddhism than it has with Christianity.

In the new testament, there is an awful lot of discussion of faith versus works, and which one was more important, and how they worked together. As a Christian, I never understood those passages. After a few years of learning about Judaism, and seeing it practiced, I got it.

Faith isn't important in Judaism. Oh, sure, you can find people who will disagree, but, pretty much, it's works. And not just any works, but ritual observance is particularly important. And what's the point of all that ritual? Is it really sinful to eat a lobster? No. All of that ritual is about being constantly aware of the presence of God, but God is a voice inside you. It's the stuff of the universe. And all of that is very Buddhist.

Of course, back in the days of Moses and Aaron, they were a little bit more into killing people who didn't go along, but things change. Put Jews in charge of things and give them real power and they would undoubtedly start abusing their power, but that's human nature, not anything inherent in the religion.
This is what I mean. Judaism is evolved. Bhuddists are atheists but they also have supernatural ideas that I also don't believe in.

For a long time I struggled with the faith works concepts and also looked for ways to continue being a Christian because I identified myself to be a Christian. There were always passages that I thought was crap and ignored entirely but I grew strength in others. I mean you have to be a blind ignorant moron today to view Genesis as anything more than an a allegorical fable.

I also focused mostly on the Gospels and translated it to mean that man is God, we just didn't see it. If Jesus is the son of God and we are the children of God how is that any different?

After one of his miracles Jesus is asked why they can't do these things and Jesus says they can. All they need is faith. But I never viewed it as if he was talking about him or some airy fairy being but faith in ourselves. That each of is capable of more than we know.

I started to interpreted pretty much every passage through the lens that man was God. That collectively and individually we are God. I found this was a great way to view the bible. But of course when I expressed this idea I was shut down. It's like Jesus is imploring us to rise above our flesh and petty concerns and be our best for our fellow man and ourselves.

'Faith' if we view it that way is fine. But if we use 'faith' to believe in talking snakes, killing witches and ignoring science than faith is an excuse you use when you don't have a good reason. Nobody, absolutely nobody plays the faith card to explain anything but as a last resort. If ever there was a word I want to tear down it would be the word faith. It's a cheap salesman's word. If I ever hear another delusional fool try and justify something with faith it will be too soon.
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Old 18th June 2017, 03:01 PM   #27
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Further to my post #3 I found a source supporting my assertion:

http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u...wledge-survey/

Quote:
U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey

Executive Summary

Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.
On average, Americans correctly answer 16 of the 32 religious knowledge questions on the survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life. Atheists and agnostics average 20.9 correct answers. Jews and Mormons do about as well, averaging 20.5 and 20.3 correct answers, respectively. Protestants as a whole average 16 correct answers; Catholics as a whole, 14.7. Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons perform better than other groups on the survey even after controlling for differing levels of education.
Most Jews, so it seems, tend to be more or less atheist anyway so I guess their high score is not such a surprise. The high score among Mormons departs from the trend, but perhaps is not so surprising given the compulsory mission work they have to do. When you rock up on someones doorstep you have to have something to say.
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Old 18th June 2017, 05:12 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Most Jews, so it seems, tend to be more or less atheist anyway .

You'll find a fair number of agnostics at reform temples. Not so many at conservative and orthodox.

It's not that Jews don't believe in God. It's just that it isn't a big part of their identity. Following God's law (as interpreted by your particular faction) is a big deal. What you believe while you do it is just not very important.

Regardless of what they believe, the study of the text of the Bible, most notably the first five books of it, is a very big deal for Jews, so I would expect Jews to know more about it than their counterparts in other religions.

I wonder how the survey takers accounted for differences in "religious knowledge" among sects. Specifically, if a Jew didn't know something about the life or teachings of Jesus, would that count as not having as much religious knowledge? Were there questions about Mormon history and doctrine on the mainstream Christian test? If everyone got the same test, it would be practically like giving the Mormons extra credit just for knowing something almost no one else knows.
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Old 18th June 2017, 06:18 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
You'll find a fair number of agnostics at reform temples. Not so many at conservative and orthodox.

It's not that Jews don't believe in God. It's just that it isn't a big part of their identity. Following God's law (as interpreted by your particular faction) is a big deal. What you believe while you do it is just not very important.

Regardless of what they believe, the study of the text of the Bible, most notably the first five books of it, is a very big deal for Jews, so I would expect Jews to know more about it than their counterparts in other religions.

I wonder how the survey takers accounted for differences in "religious knowledge" among sects. Specifically, if a Jew didn't know something about the life or teachings of Jesus, would that count as not having as much religious knowledge? Were there questions about Mormon history and doctrine on the mainstream Christian test? If everyone got the same test, it would be practically like giving the Mormons extra credit just for knowing something almost no one else knows.
Here's the link to the Pew Survey. Everything including all the questions.

http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u...ious-knowledge
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Old 18th June 2017, 06:28 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Does this sound familiar? Am I wrong?

In my view, once you accept the existence of God, everything else is excusable. One merely has to say, "Well, God has superior knowledge so if he did something we might disagree with, he had good reasons which we could not understand." Giving God perfect knowledge excuses him from morality the same way Sarah Conner gets a pass for killing people in the Terminator - there's some greater good to which nobody else is privy.

Nothing about the bible turned me off of the idea of a god. The sheer nonsense of a concept that cannot be defined did that.
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Old 18th June 2017, 06:36 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Here's the link to the Pew Survey. Everything including all the questions.

http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u...ious-knowledge
Thanks. This atheist scored 100%, but I kind of had an advantage, having been at various times in my life Catholic, Buddhist, Jewish, and atheist (Some overlapping periods in there.)

And the Mormon questions were pretty easy, as Mormon questions go. Growing up in Illinois helped on that one. Nauvoo was part of Illinois history.
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Old 18th June 2017, 07:02 PM   #32
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the best way to lose faith is to parlay faith into knowledge.
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Old 18th June 2017, 07:06 PM   #33
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Old 18th June 2017, 07:08 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by LarryS View Post
the best way to lose faith is to parlay faith into knowledge.
Of all the words I want to discredit, faith is number one. Why we would employ faith to determine anything is ridiculous.
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Old 18th June 2017, 07:10 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
What you're doing is making excuses for God that you would not make for anything else. God gives you a mind but then tells us not to use it? That's effectively what you've accepted.

The God of the bible endorsed slavery and committed genocide multiple times including almost all the animals. He endorsed infanticide. Would you kill your children if God commanded it? God kills 42 children for mocking Elijah

God's character is petty, perverted, cruel, vengeful, needy, jealous as well as pathetically incompetent.

If God has perfect foreknowledge than free will is an illusion.

You're entitled to your opinion but I am disgusted by the stories of the Bible and if they are true, God is one sick individual.
I think you've misunderstood LL's POV here.
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Old 18th June 2017, 07:16 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry View Post
I think you've misunderstood LL's POV here.
Your right I did. I'll delete it. Thanks.
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Old 18th June 2017, 07:17 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Thanks. This atheist scored 100%, but I kind of had an advantage, having been at various times in my life Catholic, Buddhist, Jewish, and atheist (Some overlapping periods in there.)

And the Mormon questions were pretty easy, as Mormon questions go. Growing up in Illinois helped on that one. Nauvoo was part of Illinois history.

Well I only scored 93% (got the last one wrong).

I thought there was only one question related to the Mormon religion.
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Old 19th June 2017, 12:01 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Does this sound familiar? Am I wrong?
I saw a survey of formerly Christian atheists years ago which asked what single factor was the most important in losing their faith. Reading the Bible was at number one. Two and three were the problem of evil and talking to non-believers, but I can't remember in which order.
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Old 19th June 2017, 01:09 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I saw a survey of formerly Christian atheists years ago which asked what single factor was the most important in losing their faith. Reading the Bible was at number one. Two and three were the problem of evil and talking to non-believers, but I can't remember in which order.
Funny. None of those three were mine.
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Old 19th June 2017, 02:10 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Funny. None of those three were mine.

Well there you go! You have managed to slay Pixel's post with one blow.
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