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Tags atheism , bible

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Old 24th June 2017, 06:11 PM   #281
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Yes, of course.
You're more moral than your God. In fact I've never met anyone who isn't. Maybe Hitler gives him/her/it a run for the money. But considering that God not only supposedly kills every human being on the planet minus IIRC eight he kills off almost all the animals. So not even Hitler is less moral. That is saying something if you ask me.
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Old 24th June 2017, 06:23 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Look at it this way, and the way Jews and Christians look at it.
Christians and jews do not look at it the same way. At all.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The scriptures are not a set of unreasonable edicts and debating points, they are a guide to living.
See what I mean? You are speaking from a christian pov, which is very different from the jewish pov.

The jewish pov is to question and debate everything. The talmud is a huge record of many of the debates. They are ongoing. Questions and debates are strongly encouraged.

No surprise so many jews are atheists.

Last edited by Zivan; 24th June 2017 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 24th June 2017, 06:32 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
I didn't say any of that. You're lying and that's a straw man argument.
Silly me. I made an assumption you read the OP's opening statement in the thread and was arguing in support of it.
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Old 24th June 2017, 06:37 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I'll have to come back to you on that.
Take your time. We're not going anywhere.
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Old 24th June 2017, 06:50 PM   #285
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I'll have to come back to you on that.
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I'll have to come back to you.
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Take your time. We're not going anywhere.
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Old 24th June 2017, 06:55 PM   #286
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
Christians and jews do not look at it the same way. At all.
Jews and Jews don't look at it the same way.

Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
See what I mean? You are speaking from a christian pov, which is very different from the jewish pov.
Christianity isn't monolithic.

Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
The jewish pov is to question and debate everything. The talmud is a huge record of many of the debates. They are ongoing. Questions and debates are strongly encouraged.

No surprise so many jews are atheists.
True.
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Old 24th June 2017, 07:03 PM   #287
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Jews and Jews don't look at it the same way.
I was speaking about how jews approach tanakh. All jews agree on questioning and debating. Vixen said it was not for "debating points". Jews think it is.


Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Christianity isn't monolithic.
Very true. I should have specified that it was Vixen's pov of her form of christianity.
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Old 24th June 2017, 07:09 PM   #288
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
I was speaking about how jews approach tanakh. All jews agree on questioning and debating. Vixen said it was not for "debating points". Jews think it is.

Very true. I should have specified that it was Vixen's pov of her form of christianity.
I'm just being persnickety.
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Old 24th June 2017, 07:13 PM   #289
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm just being persnickety.
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Old 24th June 2017, 07:51 PM   #290
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I haven't the foggiest idea what 'the soul' is.

IMV if God made man in his image and I don't doubt it, he is surely referring to the civilised man of the last 10K years and not a tree-swinging beast.

Did we ever evolve from lower animals? The theory's elegant but there is no proof of it. No missing link has ever been found between us and the chimpanzee.

Now I am really confused. Did you not say:

Quote:
Human existence - hominids - goes back circa 250K years to Lucy, an AUSTRALOPITHECUS AFRICANUS itself a split from the chimpanzee branch of primates, five million years ago.

And now you are expressing doubt that man evolved from a common source as chimpanzees. You have to admit this seems somewhat all over the place.
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Old 24th June 2017, 08:07 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I haven't the foggiest idea what 'the soul' is.

IMV if God made man in his image and I don't doubt it, he is surely referring to the civilised man of the last 10K years and not a tree-swinging beast.

Did we ever evolve from lower animals? The theory's elegant but there is no proof of it. No missing link has ever been found between us and the chimpanzee.
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Now I am really confused. Did you not say:

And now you are expressing doubt that man evolved from a common source as chimpanzees. You have to admit this seems somewhat all over the place.
I really like when Christians mention the missing link. As if there is just one.
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Old 24th June 2017, 08:20 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I haven't the foggiest idea what 'the soul' is.

IMV if God made man in his image and I don't doubt it, he is surely referring to the civilised man of the last 10K years and not a tree-swinging beast.

Did we ever evolve from lower animals? The theory's elegant but there is no proof of it. No missing link has ever been found between us and the chimpanzee.

Oh sorry I thought you would have a good idea of what the soul is. This is the thing that survives death and goes on to live the nice place, or in the not so nice place. Christians are always going on about souls so I thought you would have a good handle on it.

By saying God made us in his image and that image was not a "tree-swinging beast" I assume then we are physically made in his image. Does he then share our long list of not up to par physical shortcomings? You know the crappy knee and ankle joints, redundant organs and so on? I am sure you know of these but can get you a comprehensive list if you like.
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Old 24th June 2017, 08:21 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The Adam and Eve theory is well-supported IMV from DNA studies - i.e., of humans evolving from just one original man and woman - so how clever of Genesis to have known this before the scientists did!
That is one of the most monumentally daft ideas I have ever seen posted on this board.

You are, of course, referring to mitochondrial Adam and Eve. You quite obviously do not understand that at least 200 ky stand between them and that they are not single individuals.
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Old 24th June 2017, 08:38 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Oh sorry I thought you would have a good idea of what the soul is. This is the thing that survives death and goes on to live the nice place, or in the not so nice place. Christians are always going on about souls so I thought you would have a good handle on it.

By saying God made us in his image and that image was not a "tree-swinging beast" I assume then we are physically made in his image. Does he then share our long list of not up to par physical shortcomings? You know the crappy knee and ankle joints, redundant organs and so on? I am sure you know of these but can get you a comprehensive list if you like.
Is there a Mrs. GOD.? Does God have sex ? And if not, why not?
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Old 24th June 2017, 08:51 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
Well, YHVH was not exactly all-powerful. He could not do a damn think when faced with iron chariots. Some god! Even Wonder Woman could take on iron chariots!
Now that's a great typo. It's wrong but it's right.
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Old 24th June 2017, 09:10 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Has it never occurred to you that the reason the Flood story is prominent in several culture's accounts, is because it is an historical event that actually happened?
OK, stop. I can't keep reading the dreck you are posting here.

There was no global flood.

There was no such "historical event".

Seriously, this is just unacceptable. If you actually believe this, the posts, information and ideas you post here can be fully ignored. It's just embarrassing for you.
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Old 24th June 2017, 09:16 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I have no doubt that floods happened. Just not a worldwide flood or that man built a huge boat and saved 2 of every species of animal.
Heresy!!1!1

It was every "kind", not species. Noah saved all the "kind" of animals. After the flood (barf) these kinds evolved (gasp!!!!) into species (more barf).

Ya gotta toe the doctrinal line here, acbytesla.
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Old 24th June 2017, 09:20 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post

There was no global flood.

There was no such "historical event".
Well, not all at once.
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Old 24th June 2017, 09:25 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
OK, stop. I can't keep reading the dreck you are posting here.

There was no global flood.

There was no such "historical event".

Seriously, this is just unacceptable. If you actually believe this, the posts, information and ideas you post here can be fully ignored. It's just embarrassing for you.
How many memes does it take?

This signature is intended to irritate people.
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Old 24th June 2017, 09:25 PM   #300
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Aw, c'mon, marplots. You know what Vixen is talking about. Don't play the fool.
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Old 24th June 2017, 09:31 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
ETA: Good discussion.
Posted yesterday at #173.

Sadly, after that Vixen started posting and the thread went to hell as fast as you can say "James Randi". It's now full of Christian nonsense and the issue raised in the OP has been lost. Just one more thing Christianity has ********** up.

I'm done.
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Old 24th June 2017, 09:40 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by Zivan View Post
Well, YHVH was not exactly all-powerful. He could not do a damn think when faced with iron chariots. Some god! Even Wonder Woman could take on iron chariots!
Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Now that's a great typo. It's wrong but it's right.
Haha. Ooops!
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Old 24th June 2017, 09:49 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Heresy!!1!1

It was every "kind", not species. Noah saved all the "kind" of animals. After the flood (barf) these kinds evolved (gasp!!!!) into species (more barf).

Ya gotta toe the doctrinal line here, acbytesla.
I didn't toe that line even when I was a Christian kid in Sunday School.

I see Christians to be like when Howard Wolowitz was in bed with Katie Sackhoff when she asks Howard why she's wearing her flight suit in bed. And his reply to Katie was 'why are you in bed with me? If we start to question, this ****, it all falls apart.'
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Old 24th June 2017, 09:49 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Posted yesterday at #173.

Sadly, after that Vixen started posting and the thread went to hell as fast as you can say "James Randi". It's now full of Christian nonsense and the issue raised in the OP has been lost. Just one more thing Christianity has ********** up.

I'm done.
Here, you can borrow this;

I keep a spare for Vixen's posts..........
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Old 24th June 2017, 09:54 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
However, strangely enough, all haplotypes do go back to one sole couple - ignoring for now the inconvenience of the neanderthal mix.
You know that the most recent male and female common ancestors of everyone alive today lived thousands of years apart, right? And that there were many more people alive at the time of each who were also the ancestors of many (but not all) of the people alive today? And that neither is permanently identified as a particular individual but changes over time?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam
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Old 24th June 2017, 10:49 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Oh sorry I thought you would have a good idea of what the soul is. This is the thing that survives death and goes on to live the nice place, or in the not so nice place. Christians are always going on about souls so I thought you would have a good handle on it.

By saying God made us in his image and that image was not a "tree-swinging beast" I assume then we are physically made in his image. Does he then share our long list of not up to par physical shortcomings? You know the crappy knee and ankle joints, redundant organs and so on? I am sure you know of these but can get you a comprehensive list if you like.
Here's a fun one for you. I was told that Man was created in God's spiritual image, not his physical image. Which means that God shouldn't be visualised as a literal bearded white man in the sky who could only be in one place at a time.

I could never get a good handle on what "spiritual image" actually meant. It was obviously a post-hoc rationalisation about an ancient text written by prescientific people who didn't have the tools to understand how a physical image might be limiting for a deity.
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Old 24th June 2017, 11:41 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
What is it with the fig tree?

No, Jesus was not at war with Yahveh, he was there from the beginning, the original High Priest, as mentioned in Genesis.

What is a priest?
Jesus cursed the fig tree because it didn't give a fig to him, although it was not the season of figs. Mark 11:12-25. A little paranoid.

Jesus often said that he had come to fulfil the Law (of Yahveh) but he made important rectifications right after. Not very subtil attack against the Father.
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Old 25th June 2017, 12:06 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Humankind has been given free will. We can choose to do evil or we can choose to do good. It is as simple as that.

If a man chooses to do evil, why blame God?
Why doesn't God need the evil? Children burned alive in fires, crushed in earthqueakes, killed by serial killers, etc. You know. Why God prevents me to fly and doesn't prevent me torturing? God has strange preferences.
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Old 25th June 2017, 12:55 AM   #309
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I am superseded by the stunning ability of someone to quickly manufacture "solutions" to the biblical absurdities, including squirming like a snake -if I may say so- when he is in a serious difficulty. It is easy -I think- to show how the absurdities of the Bible are disappointing when one uses the critical power of reason. But it is also interesting to see how one can use the reason to throw tons of words in order to hide the problems of the faith in the irrational.

1rst. commandment of the reasoning believer: Don't blushed if you are caught in a flagrant contradiction. You can say: "I will return in a moment", "You don't understand", "You have not read...", etc. In any case, you can simply ignore the obstacle. But the most important rule is: never answer straightly.

This is why you -deceived rationalists- never will understand the force of the Bible. It has answers for anything.

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Old 25th June 2017, 08:16 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by David Mo View Post
Why doesn't God need the evil? Children burned alive in fires, crushed in earthqueakes, killed by serial killers, etc. You know. Why God prevents me to fly and doesn't prevent me torturing? God has strange preferences.
God has his reasons.
He works in mysterious way.
It is not for us to understand
Man cannot comprehend the mind of God

and so on and so on and so on.

In my experience you can get most religious people to admit that they have no proof of God but they still believe on faith. That is, if you can get them from to stop pointing at a tree or a beautiful sunset and just declaring that is proof of God.

I like to pose this question to them.

How do they know that God isn't just testing their gullibility?
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Old 25th June 2017, 09:23 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
You know that the most recent male and female common ancestors of everyone alive today lived thousands of years apart, right? And that there were many more people alive at the time of each who were also the ancestors of many (but not all) of the people alive today? And that neither is permanently identified as a particular individual but changes over time?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam
The MRCA is not equivalent to either mt Eve or Y-Adam. The MRCA occurred in the last few thousands years.
http://steveolson.com/uploads/2009/0...ancestors2.pdf
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Old 25th June 2017, 09:47 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
And didn't it come true? Don't we all have to work 40 years for a living before being allowed to retire on a state pension?
Exactly. The Serpent was correct. Now, we are like gods. It just isn't as much fun as it sounded like from the other side. Also, the Big God didn't like the results so much, so He put a bunch of extra limitations in place.

ETA: At least, that's what the Bible says. That isn't very close to what was taught in church, or in Bible Stories for Children, but that's what the Bible says.

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Old 25th June 2017, 09:58 AM   #313
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The copy I had as a kid at least had cool pictures
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Old 25th June 2017, 10:10 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I like to pose this question to them.

How do they know that God isn't just testing their gullibility?
God would never do that.

This signature is intended to irritate people.
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Old 25th June 2017, 10:15 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
And didn't it come true? Don't we all have to work 40 years for a living before being allowed to retire on a state pension?
Wait a minute! My government pension and SSI are divinely inspired, and were foretold several hundred thousand years ago?

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Old 25th June 2017, 10:48 AM   #316
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Originally Posted by Beady View Post
God would never do that.

This signature is intended to irritate people.

Well, let's not be too quick to answer. You admit you have no proof that God exists.

So what if God isn't who you think he is. He didn't take bodily human form by impregnating a Jewish virgin and martyred himself for man. He just made up this story to see who would fall for it.

How do you know that the creator isn't just trolling man? And what he really wants to know is which people are gullible? And those that took it on faith were the ones crushed under God's boots?
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Last edited by acbytesla; 25th June 2017 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 25th June 2017, 11:29 AM   #317
Beady
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Well, let's not be too quick to answer. You admit you have no proof that God exists.
I think I should have added quotes and an emoticon. I also think you should pay more attention to who you're replying to.

This signature is intended to irritate people.
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Old 25th June 2017, 11:42 AM   #318
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Beady View Post
I think I should have added quotes and an emoticon. I also think you should pay more attention to who you're replying to.

This signature is intended to irritate people.

No, I get it. I know your position. We're just playing with hypotheticals. This in a nutshell is what is wrong with sarcasm or irony on the net. You're screwing with me and I in response screw with you, but you take it as if I was taking your remark seriously.

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Old 25th June 2017, 12:45 PM   #319
Beady
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
No, I get it. I know your position. We're just playing with hypotheticals. This in a nutshell is what is wrong with sarcasm or irony on the net. You're screwing with me and I in response screw with you, but you take it as if I was taking your remark seriously.

Ah, screw you.

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Old 25th June 2017, 12:50 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by Beady View Post
Ah, screw you.

This signature is intended to irritate people.
I see we're starting over.
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