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Tags circumcision , circumcision incidents , circumcision issues

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Old 29th June 2017, 04:28 AM   #1
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MGM UK

BBC News: Mum opened nappy to find son had been circumcised

"A mother has described the distress of discovering her baby son had been circumcised without her consent.

The woman, from Nottingham, said she opened her son's nappy to find him covered in blood - and was so distraught she had to leave the room.

She has battled for four years for authorities to take action.

Three people have now been arrested, including a 61-year-old man - thought to be a doctor - on suspicion of grievous bodily harm with intent."
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Old 29th June 2017, 05:28 AM   #2
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Thread title is Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, until it is opened.
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Old 29th June 2017, 05:37 AM   #3
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I bet Goldwyn and Meyer were MGM'd
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Old 29th June 2017, 10:57 AM   #4
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Some seriously messed up people. Not just the people who did this either, but people who think it's okay to circumcise someone without their consent.

Quote:
Circumcision was promoted as a way of discouraging masturbation in the past, and was regarded as clean and hygienic
Most people do it for neither of the above reasons...they do it because everyone else does. I think circumcision became a "thing" for religious reasons, not medical. The medical aspect came later and is used to excuse the practice.

There is a thread already on this somewhere. It's amazing how many people are adamant about cutting off someone else's foreskin.

On it being illegal to "dock" dogs tails:

Quote:
"There's something seriously not right with it all. You can protect a dog, you can protect a girl, but not a boy."
Thank you.
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Old 29th June 2017, 11:32 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Some seriously messed up people. Not just the people who did this either, but people who think it's okay to circumcise someone without their consent.



Most people do it for neither of the above reasons...they do it because everyone else does. I think circumcision became a "thing" for religious reasons, not medical. The medical aspect came later and is used to excuse the practice.

There is a thread already on this somewhere. It's amazing how many people are adamant about cutting off someone else's foreskin.

On it being illegal to "dock" dogs tails:



Thank you.
Agree with all the paragraphs, but especially the highlighted.

In support of the highlighted, the different rates in the US and the UK would suggest that it's cultural.

There was a programme on the radio that I heard... mumble years ago and one nonagenarian said that his earliest memory was of the pain of being circumcised, "far too old" at three.
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Old 29th June 2017, 11:50 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I bet Goldwyn and Meyer were MGM'd
One of the great ironies of Film History is that Goldwyn and Meyer will be forever linked by the company MGM,when they hated each other guts with a passion.
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Old 29th June 2017, 04:25 PM   #7
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I don't understand why no one was taking the issue seriously. Since when do the paternal grandparents have the right to make these decisions when the legal guardian is still the biological mother? They should have been charged from day 1.
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Old 29th June 2017, 04:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I bet Goldwyn and Meyer were MGM'd

Mayer was indeed Jewish (I looked it up), but to me, Mayer (Maier, Meier, Meyer) sounds like an ordinary German name; its meaning is a medieval position akin to steward. Apart from a very few (Levi, Cohn/Cohen) there are no typical Jewish names.

As to the OP: WTF is wrong with these people? It's bad enough there are people who think it's necessary to mutilate their own baby, but someone else's? I bet these grandparents have seen the last of their grandson. As to the "supposed doctor", I hope he loses his license. From the description, he's even botched the procedure. And WTF is wrong with all these people who don't take the mother's complaint seriously, that it's taken her four years to get this case going.
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Old 29th June 2017, 04:41 PM   #9
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BTW Sam Goldwyn's original name was Goldfish.....I kid you not.
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Old 29th June 2017, 04:44 PM   #10
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WTF I hate Metro-Goldwyn-Meyer now.
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Old 29th June 2017, 04:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
BTW Sam Goldwyn's original name was Goldfish.....I kid you not.

Nope.

His original name was "Szmuel Gelbfisz".

I kid you not.
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Old 29th June 2017, 05:00 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
WTF I hate Metro-Goldwyn-Meyer now.
Yes let us all joke and pun about penises being undone so as not to offend sensitive religious ones...

Let us adopt moral relativity to the tips of little willies so as not to offend sensibilities.

Barbarism can so quickly joked and put aside as long as offence is never caused.

Pricks!
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Old 29th June 2017, 05:57 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Belgian thought View Post
Yes let us all joke and pun about penises being undone so as not to offend sensitive religious ones...

Let us adopt moral relativity to the tips of little willies so as not to offend sensibilities.

Barbarism can so quickly joked and put aside as long as offence is never caused.
What if I told you that avoiding offense was the furthest thought from my mind?

Quote:
Pricks!
You seem to have some problem with this topic, that has nothing to do with me.
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Old 30th June 2017, 03:48 AM   #14
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If someone chopped bits off my child, I'm sorry to say that legal recourse would be my second course of action.
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Old 30th June 2017, 04:19 AM   #15
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I assume your first wouldn't be a quick fry up?
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Old 30th June 2017, 08:08 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I assume your first wouldn't be a quick fry up?
I think he'd pay the barber first.
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Old 30th June 2017, 07:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What if I told you that avoiding offense was the furthest thought from my mind?


You seem to have some problem with this topic, that has nothing to do with me.
Oh yeah - my problem with this topic is that i cannot justify the mutilation of a persons genitalia based on some dreamt up entity,


OK? - By all means justify it.
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Last edited by Belgian thought; 30th June 2017 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 30th June 2017, 08:01 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Some seriously messed up people. Not just the people who did this either, but people who think it's okay to circumcise someone without their consent.

Or, at least, the parent's consent.
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Old 2nd July 2017, 01:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Or, at least, the parent's consent.
I suspect that mgidm86 meant exactly what he wrote.
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Old 2nd July 2017, 04:28 PM   #20
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I'm glad they were arrested. I hope the Doctor is struck off, and all three do jail time.

Circumcision of an infant should be illegal, period. It should be treated like what it is - child abuse.
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Old 2nd July 2017, 05:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Belgian thought View Post
Oh yeah - my problem with this topic is that i cannot justify the mutilation of a persons genitalia based on some dreamt up entity,
What are you talking about? Nobody is asking you to justify it.
Quote:
OK? - By all means justify it.
What makes you think I would want to do that?

But, okay, since you insist: I'm a "victim" of MGM. I have no idea what justification my parents used, or if they had any justification at all. I never asked, because it was never a problem for me.

Let me be clear: I don't need to justify it. I just need to live with it. Leave me out of your crusade.


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Old 2nd July 2017, 08:58 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
I'm glad they were arrested. I hope the Doctor is struck off, and all three do jail time.

Circumcision of an infant should be illegal, period. It should be treated like what it is - child abuse.

I had both my sons circumcised in accordance with my religious heritage. Neither appears to be the worse for it, 9 and 12 years later. I would not recommend circumcision for health or non-religious reasons. However I don't believe that I committed child abuse. How would you have me punished?
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Old 3rd July 2017, 04:23 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I had both my sons circumcised in accordance with my religious heritage. Neither appears to be the worse for it, 9 and 12 years later. I would not recommend circumcision for health or non-religious reasons. However I don't believe that I committed child abuse. How would you have me punished?
Prison.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 04:25 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I had both my sons circumcised in accordance with my religious heritage. Neither appears to be the worse for it, 9 and 12 years later. I would not recommend circumcision for health or non-religious reasons. However I don't believe that I committed child abuse. How would you have me punished?
You didn't do anything illegal so I'm not sure why you think there should be any punishment?
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Old 3rd July 2017, 04:34 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You didn't do anything illegal so I'm not sure why you think there should be any punishment?
He was responding to my stating that I believed it should be illegal, and thus there should be punishment.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 06:23 AM   #26
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It's an easy answer. What's the punishment for circumcising a girl? It should be the same.

I sympathise with Loss Leader and his cultural/religious reasons. However, I don't think those reasons should trump a person's right to be bodily intact. When kosher and halal butchery was banned in European countries, Jews and Muslims adapted. I'm sure they will do the same once male circumcision is banned.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 09:20 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I had both my sons circumcised in accordance with my religious heritage. Neither appears to be the worse for it, 9 and 12 years later. I would not recommend circumcision for health or non-religious reasons. However I don't believe that I committed child abuse. How would you have me punished?
That sounds like you find it acceptable for religious reasons, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Given that Abraham's real-estate deal with god is about as likely to have actually happened as kangaroos and polar bears making their way to the Middle East to climb on board Noah's ark, what would be your religious justification for lopping bits of skin off the penises of baby boys?
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Old 3rd July 2017, 09:50 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
Prison.

And for how long exactly should my prison sentence be?
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Old 3rd July 2017, 11:06 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I had both my sons circumcised in accordance with my religious heritage. Neither appears to be the worse for it, 9 and 12 years later. I would not recommend circumcision for health or non-religious reasons. However I don't believe that I committed child abuse. How would you have me punished?
So you support it as long as the reason had no basis in reality?

That's kinda messed up. I'd be more inclined to give someone a pass if they believed poor medical information than if they are doing it as part of some kind of magic tradition.

To me it is like you are saying " I don't support gun ownership except if someone is worried about dragons. ".
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Old 3rd July 2017, 11:43 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
That sounds like you find it acceptable for religious reasons, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Given that Abraham's real-estate deal with god is about as likely to have actually happened as kangaroos and polar bears making their way to the Middle East to climb on board Noah's ark, what would be your religious justification for lopping bits of skin off the penises of baby boys?

You imply a distinction where none exists.

I don't believe in the literal truth of the bible. I don't even believe in any sort of god.

I do, however, believe in Jews. I believe that religious ritual, including rites of passage, are important for community cohesion. And I believe that religion binds people together in a manner that cannot otherwise be accomplished. If I were christian and there were 2 billion of me at least, I might care less. But in my country (with the second highest Jewish population), we're only 1.8% of the nation. Teaching my boys that they have a historical identity is, to me, reason enough.

Now, I have also forced them to sit through Hebrew school and services, both of which they: 1) remember; 2) hated; and 3) lasted a million times longer than their circumcisions. Certainly we agree that not all abuse is physical and that emotional abuse is terrible. So, does making my children learn Jewish history, language, prayer and culture against their "wills" qualify as child abuse?

If not, then I see no difference.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 11:58 AM   #31
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I love people telling me how up in arms I should be because I was circumcised. I'm even more entertained at the fact people make it their business. I'm 36 years old, and I've never, Ever, EVER felt like I was "mutilated" or otherwise retarded in my progress because of it. It hasn't stopped me from enjoying sex. It hasn't stopped me from experiencing anything in my life. We have kids that are and aren't circumcised in our family, and it's never even become a subject of conversation.

Every time I see this come up, and granted my views are anecdotal, I think to myself, "Who gives a ******"
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Old 3rd July 2017, 12:00 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
You imply a distinction where none exists.

I don't believe in the literal truth of the bible. I don't even believe in any sort of god.

I do, however, believe in Jews. I believe that religious ritual, including rites of passage, are important for community cohesion. And I believe that religion binds people together in a manner that cannot otherwise be accomplished. If I were christian and there were 2 billion of me at least, I might care less. But in my country (with the second highest Jewish population), we're only 1.8% of the nation. Teaching my boys that they have a historical identity is, to me, reason enough.

Now, I have also forced them to sit through Hebrew school and services, both of which they: 1) remember; 2) hated; and 3) lasted a million times longer than their circumcisions. Certainly we agree that not all abuse is physical and that emotional abuse is terrible. So, does making my children learn Jewish history, language, prayer and culture against their "wills" qualify as child abuse?

If not, then I see no difference.

Was it necessary to operate on them to achieve the highlighted part?

Thing is, they can accept or reject the religious/community/culture identity part when older. They can't regrow their foreskins. If they accept it they can then choose to get the operation, fully aware of all it entails. You had no right to modify your kids' bodies for the reasons you give here.

"Tribal scars" can be justified in exactly the same way you've justified your actions. You OK with those too?

Actually, I'm beginning to suspect you're engaged in very deep irony here.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 12:16 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
You imply a distinction where none exists.

I don't believe in the literal truth of the bible. I don't even believe in any sort of god.

I do, however, believe in Jews. I believe that religious ritual, including rites of passage, are important for community cohesion. And I believe that religion binds people together in a manner that cannot otherwise be accomplished. If I were christian and there were 2 billion of me at least, I might care less. But in my country (with the second highest Jewish population), we're only 1.8% of the nation. Teaching my boys that they have a historical identity is, to me, reason enough.

Now, I have also forced them to sit through Hebrew school and services, both of which they: 1) remember; 2) hated; and 3) lasted a million times longer than their circumcisions. Certainly we agree that not all abuse is physical and that emotional abuse is terrible. So, does making my children learn Jewish history, language, prayer and culture against their "wills" qualify as child abuse?

If not, then I see no difference.
If you can't think of a better way to create group cohesion than mutilating wangs I'm a little scared. But if you are really that hard up for ideas I have about a thousand better than mutilation.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 12:20 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I love people telling me how up in arms I should be because I was circumcised. I'm even more entertained at the fact people make it their business. I'm 36 years old, and I've never, Ever, EVER felt like I was "mutilated" or otherwise retarded in my progress because of it. It hasn't stopped me from enjoying sex. It hasn't stopped me from experiencing anything in my life. We have kids that are and aren't circumcised in our family, and it's never even become a subject of conversation.

Every time I see this come up, and granted my views are anecdotal, I think to myself, "Who gives a ******"
That would be like me saying "I don't see how there are any advantages to being tall I have been short my entire life and im doing fine. "

People can "do fine"missing a leg I've met quite a few, doesn't mean hacking off someone's leg isn't going to negatively effect them.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 12:52 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I love people telling me how up in arms I should be because I was circumcised. I'm even more entertained at the fact people make it their business. I'm 36 years old, and I've never, Ever, EVER felt like I was "mutilated" or otherwise retarded in my progress because of it. It hasn't stopped me from enjoying sex. It hasn't stopped me from experiencing anything in my life. We have kids that are and aren't circumcised in our family, and it's never even become a subject of conversation.

Every time I see this come up, and granted my views are anecdotal, I think to myself, "Who gives a ******"
It is great that you are so body positive. I'm sure no one here is saying you shouldn't be proud of your body or that you should be embarrassed about the scars on your penis.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 12:53 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
He was responding to my stating that I believed it should be illegal, and thus there should be punishment.
Ah sorry hadn't followed the chain carefully.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 12:56 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
It is great that you are so body positive. I'm sure no one here is saying you shouldn't be proud of your body or that you should be embarrassed about the scars on your penis.
Yeah, people are only saying that my genitals were "mutilated". How could anyone perceive that as a reason I shouldn't be "proud of my body" or embarrassed? After all, in the opinions of those people in this very thread, that are stating verbatim what I'm stating now, I've been mutilated and my parents are stupid. Sure, nothing negative there.

Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Was it necessary to operate on them to achieve the highlighted part?

Thing is, they can accept or reject the religious/community/culture identity part when older. They can't regrow their foreskins. If they accept it they can then choose to get the operation, fully aware of all it entails. You had no right to modify your kids' bodies for the reasons you give here.

"Tribal scars" can be justified in exactly the same way you've justified your actions. You OK with those too?

Actually, I'm beginning to suspect you're engaged in very deep irony here.
The **** they can't:

Quote:
Non-surgical foreskin restoration, accomplished through tissue expansion, is the more commonly used method. Both the skin of the penile shaft and the mucosal inner lining of the foreskin, if any remains after circumcision, may be expanded.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 12:56 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
And for how long exactly should my prison sentence be?
In the UK it would presumably be along the lines of the FMG Act 2003, which has as a maximum sentence of 14 years.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:05 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Yeah, people are only saying that my genitals were "mutilated". How could anyone perceive that as a reason I shouldn't be "proud of my body" or embarrassed? After all, in the opinions of those people in this very thread, that are stating verbatim what I'm stating now, I've been mutilated and my parents are stupid. Sure, nothing negative there.

...snip...
You have been mutilated, I can't see how you can disagree with that. In terms of possible mutilations it is of course no where near the worse mutilation and it is in your society one of the few legally acceptable mutilations a parent can have inflicted on their children.

But you are not responsible for what was done to you and no one should be telling you how you should feel about what was done to you. By all mean "embrace" it, by all means be proud about it and be certain you prefer being the way you are - you have every right to have that opinion and anyone who tells you you don't should be the ones who are ashamed of themselves.

As for the comments about your parents - I have no idea of their reasoning etc. but do keep in mind that even the most intelligent people can and do make stupid decisions.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:07 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
...snip...


The **** they can't:
That is at best a cosmetic not a functional restoration. We have no way currently to undo the nerve damage caused by a circumcision.
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