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Tags circumcision , circumcision incidents , circumcision issues

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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:14 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Yeah, people are only saying that my genitals were "mutilated". How could anyone perceive that as a reason I shouldn't be "proud of my body" or embarrassed? After all, in the opinions of those people in this very thread, that are stating verbatim what I'm stating now, I've been mutilated and my parents are stupid. Sure, nothing negative there.



The **** they can't:
Tattoo removal is easier than that procedure. By your logic parents should be able to tattoo their children.

You like your wang, we get it, it's the only one you have and your are not likely to get another, but can you not see how that would make you a little biased?

If someone was born without a hand they would likely get upset if you told them about how useful having two hands is. Especially if you talked like they had a choice in the matter. It's human nature, do you not think maybe this line of thinking would be able to extend to other body parts?
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:15 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You have been mutilated, I can't see how you can disagree with that. In terms of possible mutilations it is of course no where near the worse mutilation and it is in your society one of the few legally acceptable mutilations a parent can have inflicted on their children.

But you are not responsible for what was done to you and no one should be telling you how you should feel about what was done to you. By all mean "embrace" it, by all means be proud about it and be certain you prefer being the way you are - you have every right to have that opinion and anyone who tells you you don't should be the ones who are ashamed of themselves.

As for the comments about your parents - I have no idea of their reasoning etc. but do keep in mind that even the most intelligent people can and do make stupid decisions.
I don't believe they made a "stupid" decision. YOU think they made a stupid decision. Which, as you've stated, is completely your right and opinion. I don't agree with it as I also had my son circumcised. That's the tough part about calling people stupid for making their own decisions. It can be applied to anything and everything that one disagrees with, even when it comes to your choices as a parent.

As I stated before, I can't think of a single situation where I am worse off or where it would have benefited me to have my foreskin. I don't view myself as "mutilated", again, YOU view me as mutilated. Just as you can't imagine how I don't agree with that, I also can't imagine why you would imagine that. I've never once had someone look at it and say, "Man, that thing has been absolutely mutilated." In fact, I've never had a comment on it either way. Even with my non "mutilated" friends, it's never come up. They've never told me how completely sweet having a foreskin can be, and there's nothing I've lost from having it removed. There's nothing I can do that someone with a foreskin can't, and vice versa.

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That is at best a cosmetic not a functional restoration. We have no way currently to undo the nerve damage caused by a circumcision.
Something was implied, I showed that wasn't true. I guess we can argue shades of grey though.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:18 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Tattoo removal is easier than that procedure. By your logic parents should be able to tattoo their children.
I...I can't even. Ok, whatever LoL. That leap in logic is unhinged to me, but you seem to believe it, so ok. Apparently, I'm all for tattooing a baby.

Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
You like your wang, we get it, it's the only one you have and your are not likely to get another, but can you not see how that would make you a little biased?
You mean, like you having your foreskin and holding the opposite view? Is that what you mean? Or is this going to somehow be different because....words? I have a feeling I know where this is headed.

Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
If someone was born without a hand they would likely get upset if you told them about how useful having two hands is. Especially if you talked like they had a choice in the matter. It's human nature, do you not think maybe this line of thinking would be able to extend to other body parts?
Terrible analogy. Is foreskin used in almost every single event that you participate in during your day? Does having foreskin help you perform better at a job? Does it effect your cooking, cleaning, climbing, play time, activities, etc?

I mean seriously. Wow.
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Last edited by plague311; 3rd July 2017 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:21 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I don't believe they made a "stupid" decision. YOU think they made a stupid decision. Which, as you've stated, is completely your right and opinion. I don't agree with it as I also had my son circumcised. That's the tough part about calling people stupid for making their own decisions. It can be applied to anything and everything that one disagrees with, even when it comes to your choices as a parent.

As I stated before, I can't think of a single situation where I am worse off or where it would have benefited me to have my foreskin. I don't view myself as "mutilated", again, YOU view me as mutilated. Just as you can't imagine how I don't agree with that, I also can't imagine why you would imagine that. I've never once had someone look at it and say, "Man, that thing has been absolutely mutilated." In fact, I've never had a comment on it either way. Even with my non "mutilated" friends, it's never come up. They've never told me how completely sweet having a foreskin can be, and there's nothing I've lost from having it removed. There's nothing I can do that someone with a foreskin can't, and vice versa.



Something was implied, I showed that wasn't true. I guess we can argue shades of grey though.
So you are arguing that you know what having a part of your body that you have never had, would be like?

That's not very logical. At all.

You had a choice removed, you can no more know if you would prefer having a foreskin than I could know if claws would be something I'd have use for.

Now if you had one and disliked it you could then have it removed, how is giving someone a choice a bad thing?
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:27 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I...I can't even. Ok, whatever LoL. That leap in logic is unhinged to me, but you seem to believe it, so ok. Apparently, I'm all for tattooing a baby.



You mean, like you having your foreskin and holding the opposite view? Is that what you mean? Or is this going to somehow be different because....words? I have a feeling I know where this is headed.



Terrible analogy. Is foreskin used in almost every single event that you participate in during your day? Does having foreskin help you perform better at a job? Does it effect your cooking, cleaning, climbing, play time, activities, etc?

I mean seriously. Wow.
The thing is, if I ever wanted to remove mine I could. So emotion is out of it for me. I have options, if I did dislike my wang I could change it. Who knows maybe I will later in life.

Hell , if you managed to convince me today ,I could set up an appointment to become part of the cut club. If the reverse happened, you would still be stuck. Can't you see how that might make you a little less logical about the situation?

And explain how an under the shirt tattoo would be any worse for a child than this. I'll wait.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:27 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I don't believe they made a "stupid" decision. YOU think they made a stupid decision. Which, as you've stated, is completely your right and opinion. I don't agree with it as I also had my son circumcised. That's the tough part about calling people stupid for making their own decisions. It can be applied to anything and everything that one disagrees with, even when it comes to your choices as a parent.
You are the one seemingly hung up about "stupid". As I said I don't know the reasoning your parents or you made about circumcision, you may have had plenty of good reasons for your choices, for example your child required the surgery to help ameliorate a medical condition.
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
As I stated before, I can't think of a single situation where I am worse off or where it would have benefited me to have my foreskin.
During sex you cannot get the pleasure a non-circumcised man can get when his foreskin is played with. You simply don't have the functionality to have that enjoyment because a decision was made (presumably for non medical reasons) to have a very nerve rich part of your penis removed.

Originally Posted by plague311 View Post

I don't view myself as "mutilated", again, YOU view me as mutilated.
Your body was surgically altered for non-medical reasons removing healthy tissue and functionality, it is hard to understand how that wasn't mutilation.
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Just as you can't imagine how I don't agree with that, I also can't imagine why you would imagine that. I've never once had someone look at it and say, "Man, that thing has been absolutely mutilated." In fact, I've never had a comment on it either way. Even with my non "mutilated" friends, it's never come up. They've never told me how completely sweet having a foreskin can be, and there's nothing I've lost from having it removed. There's nothing I can do that someone with a foreskin can't, and vice versa. ...snip...
That something is normalised in a society does not mean it is OK.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:27 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
So you are arguing that you know what having a part of your body that you have never had, would be like?
No, that's not what I'm saying, and you appear to be having a real problem understanding my points. Is there something I can do to make it more clear?

Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
That's not very logical. At all.
No ****** I'm glad that's not what I'm doing then.

Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
You had a choice removed, you can no more know if you would prefer having a foreskin than I could know if claws would be something I'd have use for.
No, I had a choice that was left up to my parents, that they made for me. The same way they made other choices for me. They decided what food I should eat, where I should go play, what rides I should go on at the fair, where I should go to school and so on. All of those things also effected my body. What my weight is, the habits I grew up with, etc. As a kid, I had a trillion choices removed for me, some that definitely bothered me more than dick skin.

Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Now if you had one and disliked it you could then have it removed, how is giving someone a choice a bad thing?
Because parents make choices based on what they think is best. My parents made that choice, and it's worked out for me really well. It's not something I sit and think about on a long term basis, and it creeps me out on some level that other people do. It's cultural.
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Last edited by plague311; 3rd July 2017 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:33 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You are the one seemingly hung up about "stupid". As I said I don't know the reasoning your parents or you made about circumcision, you may have had plenty of good reasons for your choices, for example your child required the surgery to help ameliorate a medical condition.
You said intelligent people make stupid decisions. I was merely replying to your words. If that's not what you meant, or I somehow got it out of context then I can go back and apologize.

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
During sex you cannot get the pleasure a non-circumcised man can get when his foreskin is played with. You simply don't have the functionality to have that enjoyment because a decision was made (presumably for non medical reasons) to have a very nerve rich part of your penis removed.
This is something I hear whenever this conversation is brought, but ok I'll play along. An uncircumcised man also can't experience the things that I can either. Is he losing out or in your scenario is he automatically a peg up because his sex is different than mine? I also can't experience several other things people can because of certain changes, should I also have those regrets? My sex is filled from top to bottom with pleasure, you're right in that I have no frame of reference, but again, it's never caused a problem.

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Your body was surgically altered for non-medical reasons removing healthy tissue and functionality, it is hard to understand how that wasn't mutilation.
Honestly, I have no idea why my parents did it. I've really and truly never bothered to ask because it would be an extremely awkward conversation to have, but to each their own.

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That something is normalised in a society does not mean it is OK.
You're right, but it doesn't inherently mean it's a stupid decision either. Which seems to be the implication at this point.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:36 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
The thing is, if I ever wanted to remove mine I could. So emotion is out of it for me. I have options, if I did dislike my wang I could change it. Who knows maybe I will later in life.

Hell , if you managed to convince me today ,I could set up an appointment to become part of the cut club. If the reverse happened, you would still be stuck. Can't you see how that might make you a little less logical about the situation?
I just posted that you can get it back. It's been pointed out that it would be cosmetic, but either way I could do it. Using this strange tattoo analogy, the scar from that is never gone either.

I don't think I'm being illogical at all. I guess by your standards I have no right to be in this conversation since I'm automatically "less logical" by default. Thanks for that. It's a weird ass stance to take, but thanks for throwing it out there.

Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
And explain how an under the shirt tattoo would be any worse for a child than this. I'll wait.
It's starting to sound an awful like you have no issues tattooing a baby.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:40 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You said intelligent people make stupid decisions. I was merely replying to your words. If that's not what you meant, or I somehow got it out of context then I can go back and apologize.
That's OK.

Originally Posted by plague311 View Post

This is something I hear whenever this conversation is brought, but ok I'll play along. An uncircumcised man also can't experience the things that I can either. Is he losing out or in your scenario is he automatically a peg up because his sex is different than mine? I also can't experience several other things people can because of certain changes, should I also have those regrets? My sex is filled from top to bottom with pleasure, you're right in that I have no frame of reference, but again, it's never caused a problem.
What can't a non-circumcised man experience everything you can? What is it you think a non-circumcised male can't experience but you can?

Even if for the sake of argument we allow that there is something a non-circumcised man can't experience they can make the decision that would allow them to experience it, you will never be able to have the reverse choice.




Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Honestly, I have no idea why my parents did it. I've really and truly never bothered to ask because it would be an extremely awkward conversation to have, but to each their own.
Out of pure idle curiosity and it is a sincerely asked question why would it be an "extremely awkward conversation to have"?
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post

You're right, but it doesn't inherently mean it's a stupid decision either. Which seems to be the implication at this point.
It would depend on why the reasons behind the decision as to whether the decision itself was stupid or something else.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:42 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I just posted that you can get it back. It's been pointed out that it would be cosmetic, but either way I could do it. ...snip..
No you could not. You can get some of the appearance but you cannot regenerate the nerves and other fine structures. Having your foreskin "restored" would not enable you to experience what a non-circumcised man experiences. And your previous scars would remain.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 01:58 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What can't a non-circumcised man experience everything you can? What is it you think a non-circumcised male can't experience but you can?
*shrug* That's a question I have absolutely no ability to answer as it's an experience I don't have. I don't know what it feels like for them, etc.

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Even if for the sake of argument we allow that there is something a non-circumcised man can't experience they can make the decision that would allow them to experience it, you will never be able to have the reverse choice.
Right, but they can only make that choice once. They can't experience it and go back. I'll pose a serious question myself, what is a non-circumcised man getting that I'm not? I assure you, the pleasure or nerve feeling has never, ever been an issue. The idea that I should be experiencing more actually feeling makes me slightly thankful that it was removed. I'm good where I'm at, I think. Again, it's not something I put a ton of thought into or that I have any regrets about.

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Out of pure idle curiosity and it is a sincerely asked question why would it be an "extremely awkward conversation to have"?
That's how my family is and how we've always been. I'm sure for others it wouldn't be, but I can't imagine bringing the topic up. It's also something I just don't really care to have the answer to. They did it because they thought it's what was best. I'm not upset, regretful about it and I don't have any issues with regards to it being done. If I did, maybe it would be something I'd dive into, but it's really not.

Originally Posted by Darat View Post
It would depend on why the reasons behind the decision as to whether the decision itself was stupid or something else.
I don't think it was stupid so, again, that's why I've never asked. They do the halfway religious thing, but we never attended church every Sunday. My mom is a registered nurse that's practiced for something like 40 years on and off.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 02:23 PM   #53
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"It's cultural" - translation: "It's what my tribe does"

MrsB is of the "Welsh Druid tribe", who strongly believe in snipping off the small toe of the left foot of baby girls (some men find this attractive in an adult female) - it doesn't bother the baby for very long and doesn't have much impact, if any, on her function in later life. I talked MrsB out of this when our daughter was born, and the girl herself decided against the operation when the time came. Some young lady Druids agree to it, for "cultural reasons".

So (and fair enough) it all comes down to the severity of that cultural practice, to an extent at least. But, in the end, if the tribal practice can be a voluntary act by an adult who identifies as a member of that tribe then I can see no logical reason to foist it upon an infant who has no choice in the matter and might later regret it.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 02:50 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
"It's cultural" - translation: "It's what my tribe does"

MrsB is of the "Welsh Druid tribe", who strongly believe in snipping off the small toe of the left foot of baby girls (some men find this attractive in an adult female) - it doesn't bother the baby for very long and doesn't have much impact, if any, on her function in later life. I talked MrsB out of this when our daughter was born, and the girl herself decided against the operation when the time came. Some young lady Druids agree to it, for "cultural reasons".

So (and fair enough) it all comes down to the severity of that cultural practice, to an extent at least. But, in the end, if the tribal practice can be a voluntary act by an adult who identifies as a member of that tribe then I can see no logical reason to foist it upon an infant who has no choice in the matter and might later regret it.
Well, to each their own I guess. You might not see a logical reason, and nothing I say will ever get you to agree with me. I think I'll take my leave from this conversation.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 03:08 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
"It's cultural" - translation: "It's what my tribe does"

MrsB is of the "Welsh Druid tribe", who strongly believe in snipping off the small toe of the left foot of baby girls (some men find this attractive in an adult female) - it doesn't bother the baby for very long and doesn't have much impact, if any, on her function in later life. I talked MrsB out of this when our daughter was born, and the girl herself decided against the operation when the time came. Some young lady Druids agree to it, for "cultural reasons".

So (and fair enough) it all comes down to the severity of that cultural practice, to an extent at least. But, in the end, if the tribal practice can be a voluntary act by an adult who identifies as a member of that tribe then I can see no logical reason to foist it upon an infant who has no choice in the matter and might later regret it.
Agreed - there is no logic starting point that can justify it except by (now) cherry picking medical evidence that it is good/better.

When one takes it to tribal/religious beginnings, there is no logic to it at all and hence people walk away from the discussion with their apologetic mutilated tails between their legs.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 03:18 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
And for how long exactly should my prison sentence be?
The same as for FGM. No?
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Old 3rd July 2017, 03:23 PM   #57
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I'm pretty sure this entire thread needs to be actioned for breach of the "no personalization" rule of the MA.

This signature is intended to irradiate people.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 03:26 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
And for how long exactly should my prison sentence be?
What's the prison sentence for mutilating the genitals of 2 adults?

Do you think it should be more or less for doing it to defenseless newborns who cannot possibly give informed* consent?

* I'm aware that most adult American males probably also fail on being informed about sexual anatomy.

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Old 3rd July 2017, 03:57 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm pretty sure this entire thread needs to be actioned for breach of the "no personalization" rule of the MA.

This signature is intended to irradiate people.
Most of the posters here are against the attack on members.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 04:02 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Most of the posters here are against the attack on members.


Oh and, BTW, mine is snipped.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 04:21 PM   #61
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I just want to say that the advertisement that popped up when I opened this thread offered me a "free cutter". I don't know for sure what it was supposed to cut, but it looked about the right size for the thread topic.

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Old 3rd July 2017, 05:10 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
And for how long exactly should my prison sentence be?

How long will it take to grow back?
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Old 3rd July 2017, 05:14 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
<snip>

Now, I have also forced them to sit through Hebrew school and services, both of which they: 1) remember; 2) hated; and 3) lasted a million times longer than their circumcisions.

<snip>

Grew back that quick?

Wow.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 05:33 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
And for how long exactly should my prison sentence be?
As I understand it, that generally depends on the exact circumstances of the particular crime. But as a general rule of thumb, I'd pitch the sentence for "I circumcised my child" around the same level as other permanent maimings - "I cut the tip of my child's finger off" or "I poured acid over my child".

I couldn't claim lots of experience in such cases. In the ballpark of 2-10 years sounds about right to me.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 05:43 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I love people telling me how up in arms I should be because I was circumcised.
Has anybody actually done that, though? Not that I've seen in this thread.

I would certainly be up in arms if it had happened to me. But I'm not you - naturally you have every right to your own response to what happened to you.

Similarly, if I were assaulted or raped or robbed, I would be very up in arms about it. But if those things happened to you and you thought it was no big deal, that's great - and lucky you for being able to write them off as nothing much.

The fact that it doesn't bother some people isn't really an argument that assaulting and raping and robbing people isn't a problem and shouldn't be illegal, though, yes?

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I'm even more entertained at the fact people make it their business.
Then I'm sorry to have denied you the entertainment that would have provided in my case.

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I'm 36 years old, and I've never, Ever, EVER felt like I was "mutilated"
You were mutilated whether you have ever felt like you were or not. To "mutilate" somebody is to "injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts". Circumcision is mutilation, and your feeling that it doesn't count as such doesn't alter that fact.

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or otherwise retarded in my progress because of it. It hasn't stopped me from enjoying sex. It hasn't stopped me from experiencing anything in my life.
So?

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Every time I see this come up, and granted my views are anecdotal, I think to myself, "Who gives a ******"
*shrug* There are people with that attitude to every bad thing in the world.

But nobody requires you to care about things you don't care about. That doesn't stop other people caring about it, though.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 06:07 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Was it necessary to operate on them to achieve the highlighted part?
According to my religious leaders, it was.


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Thing is, they can accept or reject the religious/community/culture identity part when older.

Can they, though? I'm sure if I wanted to, I could move to Copenhagen and become a proud Dane. But I was raised an American and have a bias towards that group.

I could choose never to speak English again and only Danish. But research says it will be far harder for me to do as an adult. Research also says that I may always count in my native language, no matter how proficient I become in my new chosen language.

Parents make choices for their children every day, thousands of times a day. Should I wait until my son is 18 before teaching him English? Should I not celebrate Independence Day in front of him until, as an adult, he chooses this nation? The very idea is ridiculous. Children grow up in the culture their parents provide and, while a few may choose to part ways, most will continue to pass that culture down to their children.

That's what substituted judgment means. That's how it works.


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They can't regrow their foreskins. If they accept it they can then choose to get the operation, fully aware of all it entails.

Except that circumcision of an adult is far more difficult, has a much higher probability of complications, and actually does affect sexual performance and pleasure. If anything, I do them a favor by performing the procedure before the brain has even begun mapping the nerve impulses from the body. Circumcising an adult is cruel.

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You had no right to modify your kids' bodies for the reasons you give here.

The United States Constitution just called and said you can blow it out your backside. Also, you are both legally and religiously wrong.


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"Tribal scars" can be justified in exactly the same way you've justified your actions. You OK with those too?
Depending on the age of the child, the duration of pain, and barring any adverse medical effects, I might not have a problem with a parent substituting his/her judgment in that case.


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Actually, I'm beginning to suspect you're engaged in very deep irony here.

No. I'm a rational thinker who happens to have reasoned out that family cohesion through religious ritual is vital to the welfare of my children. Not just important, but vital.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 06:56 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
I'm glad they were arrested. I hope the Doctor is struck off, and all three do jail time.

Circumcision of an infant should be illegal, period. It should be treated like what it is - child abuse.
I'm circumcised, but I was not abused.

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Old 3rd July 2017, 08:28 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
Parents make choices for their children every day, thousands of times a day. Should I wait until my son is 18 before teaching him English? Should I not celebrate Independence Day in front of him until, as an adult, he chooses this nation? The very idea is ridiculous. Children grow up in the culture their parents provide and, while a few may choose to part ways, most will continue to pass that culture down to their children.
Language choice is a more practical consideration. You would find a lot of hostility to the idea of refusing your child to be taught any language and probably if not allowed to learn the predominant local language. Public education alone would be nigh impossible. It's not too hard to imagine being reviewed by child services for going that far.

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Except that circumcision of an adult is far more difficult, has a much higher probability of complications, and actually does affect sexual performance and pleasure. If anything, I do them a favor by performing the procedure before the brain has even begun mapping the nerve impulses from the body. Circumcising an adult is cruel.
The development of circumcised vs. Not is remarkably different. There are cosmetic procedures for removing problematic foreskin without damaging the nerve complex or scarring the ridge to the point of preventing unravelling to expose the mucous membrane packed with nerve endings. For a male circumcised at birth, the sensations are primarily in the glans, which has far fewer sensory nerves per unit area. Also, with no foreskin to protect it, the glans tends to callous over somewhat.

If statements from international friends are to be believed, American men tend to spend a lot of time "jack-hammering." Naturally, there's not exactly a lot of solid data to indicate wider correlation or identify causation.

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The United States Constitution just called and said you can blow it out your backside. Also, you are both legally and religiously wrong.
Nailed the stereotype to a "T" there...

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No. I'm a rational thinker who happens to have reasoned out that family cohesion through religious ritual is vital to the welfare of my children. Not just important, but vital.
*COUGH*

But even past that. Who's knocking the idea of respecting traditions? You're hiding behind a decontextualization. It's not the idea of familial or communal bonding rituals, it's a specific one that has no practical or positive benefit, numerous potential hazards, and could just as easily be any of a billion other options and still have "shared cultural practice" value to it.

ETA: Then you can teach your children about that ancient practice no longer observed and when they ask why, you say because we decided to. They will grow up knowing that questioning things is okay. So they'll be critical thinkers like their ancestors were.

Well, maybe the next sentient species this planet pops out will have better luck.

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Old 3rd July 2017, 08:47 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
You were mutilated whether you have ever felt like you were or not. To "mutilate" somebody is to "injure, disfigure, or make imperfect by removing or irreparably damaging parts".
I'm injured? Show me how.

I'm disfigured? That's subjective.

I'm damaged? Funny how neither I, nor my many partners, nor my various physicians, have ever remarked on any such damage.

Body modification is a continuum of practice, ranging from harmful to benign. It encompasses cultural traditions both ancient and modern. Your vicarious hangups are frankly offensive.

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Old 3rd July 2017, 08:49 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
No you could not. You can get some of the appearance but you cannot regenerate the nerves and other fine structures. Having your foreskin "restored" would not enable you to experience what a non-circumcised man experiences. And your previous scars would remain.
"Too few nerve endings in my penis!" has honestly never seen problem for me.

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Old 3rd July 2017, 09:09 PM   #71
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Reputable vets are stopping docking animals tails because it is cruel.

Enough said really.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 09:12 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Reputable vets are stopping docking animals tails because it is cruel.

Enough said really.
Not even remotely. Keep talking to me about my penis. I'll tell you when you've said enough.

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Old 3rd July 2017, 11:14 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Too few nerve endings in my penis!" has honestly never seen problem for me.

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You said you were not damaged but that is simply factually wrong. Tissue that served a functional purpose was removed from your penis permanently altering it and leaving you with scars.
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Old 3rd July 2017, 11:24 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Reputable vets are stopping docking animals tails because it is cruel.

Enough said really.
A shame American vets haven't got the same message about declawing cats. But I digress... Or maybe not, as it's all about things being normalised in a society that should not be.

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Old 4th July 2017, 12:23 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I...I can't even. Ok, whatever LoL. That leap in logic is unhinged to me, but you seem to believe it, so ok. Apparently, I'm all for tattooing a baby.

From this I draw that you think tattooing a baby is a ridiculous proposition - Is that what you were trying to convey?
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Old 4th July 2017, 12:31 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
The United States Constitution just called and said you can blow it out your backside. Also, you are both legally and religiously wrong.

Interesting. How much mutilation does the US constitution allow? Are the extreme FGM practices found in some parts of Africa protected by the US constitution?
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Old 4th July 2017, 12:31 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Was it necessary to operate on them to achieve the highlighted part? [cultural identity]
Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
According to my religious leaders, it was.
....
No. I'm a rational thinker who happens to have reasoned out that family cohesion through religious ritual is vital to the welfare of my children. Not just important, but vital.
Er, have you taken the word of your religious leaders or worked it out for yourself? It's unclear.

While we're here, do you actually believe that god confronted Abraham and struck that deal? It is, after all, the only justification for the practice that the Bible has to offer.
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Old 4th July 2017, 03:14 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Interesting. How much mutilation does the US constitution allow? Are the extreme FGM practices found in some parts of Africa protected by the US constitution?
I'm not a constitutional scholar. I'm sure much FGM is not protected as a religious right. The age of the child and the harm done would be factors to weigh.

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Old 4th July 2017, 03:18 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
While we're here, do you actually believe that god confronted Abraham and struck that deal? It is, after all, the only justification for the practice that the Bible has to offer.


Of course I dont believe in the events in the bible or even in s concept of a god. My justification doesn't come from the bible. It comes from a desire to strengthen their cultural and familial bonds.


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Old 4th July 2017, 03:19 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
You said you were not damaged but that is simply factually wrong. Tissue that served a functional purpose was removed from your penis permanently altering it and leaving you with scars.
Darat, does it bother you that I'm circumcised?

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