ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 7th July 2017, 06:28 AM   #201
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Are you projecting?

That you have beliefs, does not suddenly render me a believer in anything.

Belief is for toddlers, that are unable to observe that one need not believe in science, for science holds true regardless. Furthermore, belief opposes the scientific methodology, and humans are better of with science.
You err. You hold a whole lot of beliefs. Else, you could not function. Start with gravity, for example. You simply believe it works on faith. Take your pen/pencil/whatever, hold it in the air. now let go. What happens? Well, it drops to the floor/desk/whatever, right?

Do you believe the same thing will happen tomorrow if you repeat the experiment? Or the next day? Or the day after that?
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 06:34 AM   #202
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 4,850
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Dross' primary meaning is something rubbish.

That my book recalls of health neglection abound belief, is rather than rubbish, not so.
Want to try that dross again, possibly in some form of English?
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 06:35 AM   #203
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
You err. You hold a whole lot of beliefs. Else, you could not function. Start with gravity, for example. You simply believe it works on faith. Take your pen/pencil/whatever, hold it in the air. now let go. What happens? Well, it drops to the floor/desk/whatever, right?

Do you believe the same thing will happen tomorrow if you repeat the experiment? Or the next day? Or the day after that?
This quote applies:

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan

Are you projecting?

That you have beliefs, does not suddenly render me a believer in anything.

Belief is for toddlers, that are unable to observe that one need not believe in science, for science holds true regardless. Furthermore, belief opposes the scientific methodology, and humans are better of with science.

Last edited by ProgrammingGodJordan; 7th July 2017 at 06:36 AM.
ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 06:37 AM   #204
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 4,850
So you actually, scientifically, test whether there is still gravity before getting out of bed, just in case you go into orbit?
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 06:42 AM   #205
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by fagin View Post
So you actually, scientifically, test whether there is still gravity before getting out of bed, just in case you go into orbit?
As far as science goes, gravity won't suddenly turn off...
ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 06:45 AM   #206
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
This quote applies:
No, that quote does not remotely apply. You hold beliefs, you are simply in denial.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 06:54 AM   #207
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
As far as science goes, gravity won't suddenly turn off...
How do you know that?
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 07:08 AM   #208
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 4,850
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
As far as science goes, gravity won't suddenly turn off...
A song for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv2MLlZKarM

My pleasure.
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 08:40 AM   #209
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,492
Whoo Boy.

Another slow motion trainwreck disguised as a thread.
__________________
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Col. Jeff Cooper, U.S.M.C.

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 08:43 AM   #210
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,333
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
I am dissatisfied; for I don't possess a trillion more neurons, per my body mass.

There is evidence that human cognition is not the limit on intelligence; machine learning algorithms already exceed humans in cognitive tasks.
More word salad.
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 10:14 AM   #211
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
No, that quote does not remotely apply. You hold beliefs, you are simply in denial.
I am not limited by your belief aligned existence
ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 10:18 AM   #212
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Whoo Boy.

Another slow motion trainwreck disguised as a thread.
This quote applies:

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan
Yet another brain enamoured by belief.

Come...

..is it but not yet time to doff your silly belief bound regime?

Why do you garner that belief (having no high concern for evidence) does not oppose science (with no such lacking)?
ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 11:14 AM   #213
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,492
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
I am not limited by your belief aligned existence
And still the malady lingers.

The tragic waste of electrical energy consumed to disseminate your nonsense is bad enough.

Your insistence that it has value beyond the entertainment provided is just plain sad.
__________________
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Col. Jeff Cooper, U.S.M.C.

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 11:54 AM   #214
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
And still the malady lingers.

The tragic waste of electrical energy consumed to disseminate your nonsense is bad enough.

Your insistence that it has value beyond the entertainment provided is just plain sad.
Here is a task, belief enamoured being:
Identify any logical errors in the following:

ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 12:38 PM   #215
Porpoise of Life
Illuminator
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,262
If you would write that in English, we could try.
Porpoise of Life is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 12:42 PM   #216
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
I am not limited by your belief aligned existence
How do you know gravity won't stop tomorrow?
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 12:53 PM   #217
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,492
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Here is a task, belief enamoured being:
Identify any logical errors in the following:

http://i.imgur.com/MqHVzaA.png
No theory is improved by the insertion of gobbledygook.

I doubt your particular fantasy of intellectual importance could be improved by anything short of retraction and apology.
__________________
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Col. Jeff Cooper, U.S.M.C.

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 01:26 PM   #218
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
No theory is improved by the insertion of gobbledygook.

I doubt your particular fantasy of intellectual importance could be improved by anything short of retraction and apology.
Here is an exercise.

Attempt to unravel this quantum computing based mathematical summary of mine.

Perhaps then your responses shall better reflect critical thinking; for it is activities such as the above, that has engendered my current thought cycles.

Last edited by ProgrammingGodJordan; 7th July 2017 at 01:32 PM.
ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 01:28 PM   #219
abaddon
Penultimate Amazing
 
abaddon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 16,890
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
It is scientifically observable, that your responses are nothing but invalid.
Or so your belief goes.
__________________
Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?
abaddon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 01:33 PM   #220
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Or so your belief goes.
No.

That he rejects the factum that belief opposes science, is scientifically observable.
ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 02:13 PM   #221
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,492
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Here is an exercise.

Attempt to unravel this quantum computing based mathematical summary of mine.

Perhaps then your responses shall better reflect critical thinking; for it is activities such as the above, that has engendered my current thought cycles.
I'd rather have my garage door slam on my man junk than wade through your pseudo intellectual nonsense.
__________________
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Col. Jeff Cooper, U.S.M.C.

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 02:15 PM   #222
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,492
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
I'd rather have my garage door slam on my man junk than wade through your pseudo intellectual nonsense.
Ohhhhh....my post 9,666.....must mean something significant...why was this post directed to the brainy one....must re-compute...
__________________
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Col. Jeff Cooper, U.S.M.C.

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 03:38 PM   #223
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,492
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
No.

That he rejects the factum that belief opposes science, is scientifically observable.
I only reject your claptrap.
__________________
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Col. Jeff Cooper, U.S.M.C.

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 04:23 PM   #224
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
I'd rather have my garage door slam on my man junk than wade through your pseudo intellectual nonsense.
Regardless of your response's ignorance, quantum computing is rather than psuedo science, empirically observed, valid scientific work.
ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 04:27 PM   #225
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
I only reject your claptrap.
It is detrimental that you reject science.
ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 04:30 PM   #226
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23,224
Betteridge's Law of Headlines says that belief itself is not dangerous for your brain.

This signature is intended to irradiate people.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 04:44 PM   #227
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Betteridge's Law of Headlines says that belief itself is not dangerous for your brain.

This signature is intended to irradiate people.
It shall be quite some time, before humanity purges its selective belief bound nature.

Non beliefism's rate of expansion is thusly expected.
ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th July 2017, 02:14 PM   #228
desmirelle
Critical Thinker
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 316
Belief

"You keep saying that word. I don't think it means what you think it means." (Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride')

You believe Belief requires religion to "exist". Not so, the rest of us believe gravity will enable us to safely leave our beds after sleep, you deny that you believe this. But I bet you perform NO checks when you roll out of bed......

One of the definitions of belief is a strongly held opinion. Your strongly held opinion is that you do not believe. Therefore, you have contradicted your own premise simply by insisting it's the 'only way.'

You keep insisting that science and belief are incompatible. Not so, continuing research in science requires the BELIEF that the preceding scientists did their jobs correctly, not first re-proving the underlying science before going onto the next discovery. It requires the strongly held opinion that the preceding scientists did their work. Opinion is a synomyn for belief. Find a dictionary you have not self-edited and check it out.

My opinion is that there will be air for me to breathe tomorrow. Do you believe that, too?
desmirelle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th July 2017, 02:31 PM   #229
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 14,604
Originally Posted by desmirelle View Post
Belief

"You keep saying that word. I don't think it means what you think it means." (Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride')

You believe Belief requires religion to "exist". Not so, the rest of us believe gravity will enable us to safely leave our beds after sleep, you deny that you believe this. But I bet you perform NO checks when you roll out of bed......

One of the definitions of belief is a strongly held opinion. Your strongly held opinion is that you do not believe. Therefore, you have contradicted your own premise simply by insisting it's the 'only way.'

You keep insisting that science and belief are incompatible. Not so, continuing research in science requires the BELIEF that the preceding scientists did their jobs correctly, not first re-proving the underlying science before going onto the next discovery. It requires the strongly held opinion that the preceding scientists did their work. Opinion is a synomyn for belief. Find a dictionary you have not self-edited and check it out.

My opinion is that there will be air for me to breathe tomorrow. Do you believe that, too?
I really wish he had used the word 'faith' and not 'belief'. There are rational beliefs and irrational beliefs. Faith is by its very definition an irrational belief.
__________________
ď A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. Ē
― David Hume
acbytesla is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th July 2017, 05:31 PM   #230
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,492
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
It shall be quite some time, before humanity purges its selective belief bound nature.

Non beliefism's rate of expansion is thusly expected.
Good luck with that.

You might want to look into signing Krusty the Clown as your spokesman. It might class up your pitch enough to get a rube to listen - forget Sideshow Bob, he's too sophisticated for your intended market.
__________________
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Col. Jeff Cooper, U.S.M.C.

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus

Last edited by BStrong; 8th July 2017 at 05:33 PM.
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th July 2017, 06:42 PM   #231
Kid Eager
Philosopher
 
Kid Eager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,251
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
It shall be quite some time, before humanity purges its selective belief bound nature.

Non beliefism's rate of expansion is thusly expected.
What thusly expected rate of expansion are you referring to? Or, did you just mean to say that you expected your "..ism" to expand, and threw in a gratiuitous rate because it looked more "sciency"?
__________________
What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it....
Kid Eager is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th July 2017, 12:43 AM   #232
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,738
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Yes, some beliefs are harmful, but also, it is scientifically observable, that the very concept of belief opposes scientific methodology.

Did you forget that science is mankind's best tool? Oops.

Recall:
You've still completely failed to show that it is scientifically observable that the very concept of belief opposes scientific methodology. Your presented argument is simply you repeating baseless assertion that wasn't accepted before because it was baseless and the logic employed fails even basic inspection. Given the logic you're pushing, you are still effectively arguing that liquid in general is in opposition to human bodies because most liquids are not helpful to the survival of a human body. Indeed, that you are special pleading is pretty much unavoidable because the logic you're trying to claim is obviously the case doesn't ever work.

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
You forget that science is a system that is constantly updated.

That science has models that require reconstitution, does not suddenly render science to be a belief.
You've got no relevant response, then? You've addressed nothing that I said there.

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
You are still one who believes, (i.e. a believer).
I do accept numerous things provisionally. Going by the normal definition, that does count as "belief." You've quite shown that you still count as a believer under the normal usage of the word, too.

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
That you reject non-beliefism, means that you still sillily believe in things, such as science, despite the fact that science holds true regardless of belief.
And you seem happily ignorant about the actual ways that science becomes worthless if one is unable to accept anything, even provisionally.

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
The remainder of your responses are highly nonsensical, and so I shan't bother to grant them attention beyond this sentence's scope.
Of course. You're unable to even answer simple questions about the assertions that you've made, therefore, you try to dismiss them as nonsense.

So, again, why do you believe that belief itself qualifies as a paradigm, rather than simply being the stuff that paradigms are made of, when all the actual information available points very firmly towards the latter and away from the former?

Also, I'm still waiting for you to point out where I said the things that you claimed that I said or retract your claim. Your failure to either show the evidence or retract your claims does little more than show off how dishonest you're being.


Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Observing standard definitions, that science has models that require re-constitution, does not suddenly render science to be a belief.
Of course it doesn't. No one was arguing that in the first place. Beat that straw man!

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Science is not perfect, but it is mankind's best tool, and it is not compatible with belief, that lacks high concern for scientific evidence.
Your assertion that it is not compatible rests on blatant fallacy.

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Non-beliefism simply recalls that belief opposes science.
Non-beliefism did not manufacture the above factum; that belief opposes science persists whether or not non-beliefism exists.
More correctly, the claim that belief opposes science fails whether or not non-beliefism exists.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I really wish he had used the word 'faith' and not 'belief'. There are rational beliefs and irrational beliefs. Faith is by its very definition an irrational belief.
He's rejected differentiating between the two, repeatedly. The really sad thing is that he treats his irrational philosophy like a religious person treats their faith, without any real attempt to locate or address the fallacies.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

Last edited by Aridas; 10th July 2017 at 12:45 AM.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th July 2017, 01:02 AM   #233
Porpoise of Life
Illuminator
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,262
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
You've still completely failed to show that it is scientifically observable that the very concept of belief opposes scientific methodology. Your presented argument is simply you repeating baseless assertion that wasn't accepted before because it was baseless and the logic employed fails even basic inspection. Given the logic you're pushing, you are still effectively arguing that liquid in general is in opposition to human bodies because most liquids are not helpful to the survival of a human body. Indeed, that you are special pleading is pretty much unavoidable because the logic you're trying to claim is obviously the case doesn't ever work.
Watch out, he doesn't handle analogies well. He'll take them completely literally and insist they're irrelevant.
Porpoise of Life is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th July 2017, 01:14 AM   #234
Aridas
Crazy Little Green Dragon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,738
Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Watch out, he doesn't handle analogies well. He'll take them completely literally and insist they're irrelevant.
He doesn't handle pretty much anything that's not agreeing with him well, which rather limits the options on how to get through to him.

Either way, I'm still wondering why he believes that belief itself qualifies as a paradigm, rather than simply being the stuff that paradigms are made of? He's asserted it, but utterly failed to back it up, "scientifically" or otherwise.
__________________
So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

Last edited by Aridas; 10th July 2017 at 01:15 AM.
Aridas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th July 2017, 07:20 AM   #235
Chanakya

 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 301
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
You'll probably need to buy the book to find out

Thatís funny. Glad to see you have a sense of humor, PGJ. Most people whoíre obsessed with weird ideas lack a sense of humor. Itís good to know that youíre an exception to that norm.

Assuming, that is, that actually was humor? I hope you werenít actually thinking that I (or anyone else) might be tempted, even one tiny little bit, to actually buy your book?

This is exactly analogous to Poeís Law : there really is no way, as things stand, of knowing whether youíre seriously expecting people to buy that joke of a book of yours, or if youíre only pretending to as a joke.

Iím going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume youíre joking. Itís a good joke, actually, given the context of this thread.

So let me ask, one last time :

Without falling back on put-downs and insults, and without using would-be clever ruses to side-step the issue, what would your answer be, PGJ, if XYZ were to tell you that they do not believe you are sane? Would you agree with their non-belief in your sanity?
Chanakya is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th July 2017, 07:46 AM   #236
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
You've still completely failed to show that it is scientifically observable that the very concept of belief opposes scientific methodology. Your presented argument is simply you repeating baseless assertion that wasn't accepted before because it was baseless and the logic employed fails even basic inspection. Given the logic you're pushing, you are still effectively arguing that liquid in general is in opposition to human bodies because most liquids are not helpful to the survival of a human body. Indeed, that you are special pleading is pretty much unavoidable because the logic you're trying to claim is obviously the case doesn't ever work.



You've got no relevant response, then? You've addressed nothing that I said there.



I do accept numerous things provisionally. Going by the normal definition, that does count as "belief." You've quite shown that you still count as a believer under the normal usage of the word, too.



And you seem happily ignorant about the actual ways that science becomes worthless if one is unable to accept anything, even provisionally.



Of course. You're unable to even answer simple questions about the assertions that you've made, therefore, you try to dismiss them as nonsense.

So, again, why do you believe that belief itself qualifies as a paradigm, rather than simply being the stuff that paradigms are made of, when all the actual information available points very firmly towards the latter and away from the former?

Also, I'm still waiting for you to point out where I said the things that you claimed that I said or retract your claim. Your failure to either show the evidence or retract your claims does little more than show off how dishonest you're being.




Of course it doesn't. No one was arguing that in the first place. Beat that straw man!



Your assertion that it is not compatible rests on blatant fallacy.



More correctly, the claim that belief opposes science fails whether or not non-beliefism exists.



He's rejected differentiating between the two, repeatedly. The really sad thing is that he treats his irrational philosophy like a religious person treats their faith, without any real attempt to locate or address the fallacies.

I tire of your silly anecdotes.

Simply, if one is to do science, one shall do so with high concern for evidence, and so, one shall avoid belief (which is not in the regime of high evidence concern)

As with theistic writing, your response above is straddled with contradiction.

Last edited by ProgrammingGodJordan; 10th July 2017 at 07:48 AM.
ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th July 2017, 07:51 AM   #237
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
He doesn't handle pretty much anything that's not agreeing with him well, which rather limits the options on how to get through to him.

Either way, I'm still wondering why he believes that belief itself qualifies as a paradigm, rather than simply being the stuff that paradigms are made of? He's asserted it, but utterly failed to back it up, "scientifically" or otherwise.
The typical dictionary can quickly be used to purge you confusion, amidst the scenario above.

Thusly, your response is but inconsequential...
ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th July 2017, 07:55 AM   #238
ProgrammingGodJordan
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 1,718
Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Thatís funny. Glad to see you have a sense of humor, PGJ. Most people whoíre obsessed with weird ideas lack a sense of humor. Itís good to know that youíre an exception to that norm.

Assuming, that is, that actually was humor? I hope you werenít actually thinking that I (or anyone else) might be tempted, even one tiny little bit, to actually buy your book?

This is exactly analogous to Poeís Law : there really is no way, as things stand, of knowing whether youíre seriously expecting people to buy that joke of a book of yours, or if youíre only pretending to as a joke.

Iím going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume youíre joking. Itís a good joke, actually, given the context of this thread.

So let me ask, one last time :

Without falling back on put-downs and insults, and without using would-be clever ruses to side-step the issue, what would your answer be, PGJ, if XYZ were to tell you that they do not believe you are sane? Would you agree with their non-belief in your sanity?
A silly query.

Non beliefism encodes that one lacks belief in all things.

Why would I disregard one's non belief (in any a sequence) there after?
ProgrammingGodJordan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th July 2017, 07:56 AM   #239
fagin
Illuminator
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 4,850
Someone rattle your cage again?
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th July 2017, 08:02 AM   #240
Chanakya

 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 301
Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
A silly query.

Non beliefism encodes that one lacks belief in all things.

Why would I disregard one's non belief (in any a sequence) there after?

In other (and clearer) words, you would agree with XYZ's disbelief in your sanity, then.

Actually, given your premise, there'd be no way you could not agree. Glad you see that, and glad your position on that is at least internally consistent.

If I meet XYZ I'll tell them you agree with their disbelief in your sanity, and I'll further let them know there's consistency and method in the madness.
Chanakya is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:45 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.