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Tags body fat , metabolism , weight loss

View Poll Results: Where do 10 pounds of body fat go when you lose them?
Ha! I knew this already! 27 60.00%
Not difficult - thinking about this for a bit, I think I know now 9 20.00%
I have a hunch - but am not sure 3 6.67%
I have no freaking idea. Mystery! Please solve! 2 4.44%
On planet X, no one has body fat to start with 4 8.89%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12th July 2017, 06:02 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Back into the air. All that's retained from the water is the hydrogen. The oxygen in photosynthesized glucose comes exclusively from the carbon dioxide.
Ok I misunderstood what you meant originally, then. Thanks.
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Old 12th July 2017, 06:07 AM   #42
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It all depends on which side of the Continental Divide you're standing as to where the fat goes.
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Old 12th July 2017, 08:12 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Actually it does.

It goes to the Mitochondrion..
10 pounds fat converted to 10 pounds Mitochondrion and stuff - 10 pounds still in your body, not gone.
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Old 12th July 2017, 08:14 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Steve001 View Post
It goes nowhere. The latent chemical energy contained within the fat is metabolized. That metabolic process causes the fat cells to shrink give the appearance of dissappearing fat.
Are you telling us no ever loses fat??
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Old 12th July 2017, 08:18 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Ziggurat said that the O2 in the air came almost entirely from carbon dioxide. So my question stands: where does the water oxygen go if not the air?
Ziggurat said that the O2 from CO2 goes into the carbohydrates that the plant generates through photosynthesis. The O2 from water is waste then and goes in the air.
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Old 12th July 2017, 08:26 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Are you telling us no ever loses fat??
Well that explains why I keep gaining weight.
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Old 12th July 2017, 08:29 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Ziggurat said that the O2 from CO2 goes into the carbohydrates that the plant generates through photosynthesis. The O2 from water is waste then and goes in the air.
One kingdom's waste is another's food.
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Old 12th July 2017, 08:31 AM   #48
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Alright, Ziggurat pretty much explained what I had in mind.

Of 10 pounds fat that you metabolize and lose, 8.4 pounds are exhaled as the C-part of CO2, and 1.6 pounds become the H-part of H2O, and may go any of the several usual ways - urine, feces, sweat, or exhaled. Or retained for a bit.

Here is the presentation that I saw - I was entertained, especially by the part where he actually shows the CO2 and the O2 that he exhales, by freezing a balloon with liquid nitrogen:

The mathematics of weight loss Ruben Meerman at TEDxQUT

(He also discusses the tricky bit Ziggurat mentions: of where the O within the lipids goes - I ignored that in the summary above)


Now, all those who voted that they knew this, is this what you were thinking of? That most (at least 84%) of the mass go out in the air, being exhaled? And the rest becomes water?

My own vote was the second option - I didn't know off the top of my head, but a minute of thinking lead me to understand that most of the mass must become CO2.

The interesting part is that many people do not even understand the question. Many will say that the "fat is turned into energy", but that doesn't answer the whereabouts of the mass, the 10 pounds. 10 pounds turned into energy, that's the Czar bomb
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Old 12th July 2017, 08:41 AM   #49
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Trust me, my fat is not turning into anything.
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Old 12th July 2017, 08:42 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Dumb All Over View Post
It all depends on which side of the Continental Divide you're standing as to where the fat goes.
I once took a two ocean piss at Two Ocean Pass
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Old 12th July 2017, 11:45 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Trust me, my fat is not turning into anything.
The converse for me- I can turn anything into fat. I could call it Alchemy, but that name was taken.
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Old 12th July 2017, 12:10 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
(He also discusses the tricky bit Ziggurat mentions: of where the O within the lipids goes - I ignored that in the summary above)
Never had reason to look it up before, but I'm kind of surprised by how little oxygen is contained in fat. I mean, I knew it was different than carbohydrates, but it's more different than I expected.
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Old 12th July 2017, 12:40 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Never had reason to look it up before, but I'm kind of surprised by how little oxygen is contained in fat. I mean, I knew it was different than carbohydrates, but it's more different than I expected.
It's that lack of ozygenation that leaves all those extra calories of fuel in the fat- 9cal/gram for fat, 4 cal/gm for carbs, Carbs are CHO, Fats are mostly CH with an O way over at the end. It's called a Hydroxyl. Know why?
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Old 12th July 2017, 12:43 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Back into the air. All that's retained from the water is the hydrogen. The oxygen in photosynthesized glucose comes exclusively from the carbon dioxide.

People get this wrong for two reasons: first, the formula:

6 CO2 + 3 H2O -> C6H12O6 + 6 O2
Slight nitpicks - you're missing 3xH2O on the left side of the equation. Also, it's a chemical equation, not a formula.
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Old 12th July 2017, 01:34 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Never had reason to look it up before, but I'm kind of surprised by how little oxygen is contained in fat. I mean, I knew it was different than carbohydrates, but it's more different than I expected.
Pretty efficient stuff, isn't it?
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Old 12th July 2017, 01:43 PM   #56
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The most caustic stuff in the universe...
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Old 12th July 2017, 04:30 PM   #57
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And, isn't that spelled Fey?

Is everyone here saying Tina Fay is fat, and that she resides in our body until converted to Pastafarianism?
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Old 13th July 2017, 12:00 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Alright, Ziggurat pretty much explained what I had in mind.

Of 10 pounds fat that you metabolize and lose, 8.4 pounds are exhaled as the C-part of CO2, and 1.6 pounds become the H-part of H2O, and may go any of the several usual ways - urine, feces, sweat, or exhaled. Or retained for a bit.

Here is the presentation that I saw - I was entertained, especially by the part where he actually shows the CO2 and the O2 that he exhales, by freezing a balloon with liquid nitrogen:

The mathematics of weight loss Ruben Meerman at TEDxQUT

(He also discusses the tricky bit Ziggurat mentions: of where the O within the lipids goes - I ignored that in the summary above)


Now, all those who voted that they knew this, is this what you were thinking of? That most (at least 84%) of the mass go out in the air, being exhaled? And the rest becomes water?

My own vote was the second option - I didn't know off the top of my head, but a minute of thinking lead me to understand that most of the mass must become CO2.

The interesting part is that many people do not even understand the question. Many will say that the "fat is turned into energy", but that doesn't answer the whereabouts of the mass, the 10 pounds. 10 pounds turned into energy, that's the Czar bomb
You also lose water when breathing the amount of course depends on activity and humidity of the atmosphere, but is around a pint a day.
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Old 13th July 2017, 12:43 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Now, all those who voted that they knew this, is this what you were thinking of? That most (at least 84%) of the mass go out in the air, being exhaled? And the rest becomes water?
Not exactly, but then you didn't ask about the ultimate distribution of the products, by weight
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Old 13th July 2017, 07:54 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Of 10 pounds fat that you metabolize and lose, 8.4 pounds are exhaled as the C-part of CO2, and 1.6 pounds become the H-part of H2O, and may go any of the several usual ways - urine, feces, sweat, or exhaled. Or retained for a bit.
...
(He also discusses the tricky bit Ziggurat mentions: of where the O within the lipids goes - I ignored that in the summary above)
It's worth not ignoring at this level. Even though there are far fewer O atoms than H atoms, O atoms are also much heavier, so the mass fraction of O is actually still close to that of H.

So the breakdown is for 10 pounds of fat, there are:

7.67 pounds of C
1.22 pounds of H
1.11 pounds of O

All the C (which is most of the mass) goes to carbon dioxide.
All the H (small but significant) goes to water.

So where does the O go?

If the 84% / 16% split between going to CO2 and H2O is correct, then that would mean about 2/3rds of the O from the fat goes out with the CO2, and 1/3rd goes out with the H2O. Not knowing the detailed chemistry of fat metabolism, that sounds at least plausible.

Note: I think the 84%/16% split might be correct for everything including O, because the carbon mass fraction if you simply ignore the oxygen completely is 86%, not 84%.
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Old 13th July 2017, 08:41 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's worth not ignoring at this level. Even though there are far fewer O atoms than H atoms, O atoms are also much heavier, so the mass fraction of O is actually still close to that of H.

So the breakdown is for 10 pounds of fat, there are:

7.67 pounds of C
1.22 pounds of H
1.11 pounds of O

All the C (which is most of the mass) goes to carbon dioxide.
All the H (small but significant) goes to water.

So where does the O go?

If the 84% / 16% split between going to CO2 and H2O is correct, then that would mean about 2/3rds of the O from the fat goes out with the CO2, and 1/3rd goes out with the H2O. Not knowing the detailed chemistry of fat metabolism, that sounds at least plausible.

Note: I think the 84%/16% split might be correct for everything including O, because the carbon mass fraction if you simply ignore the oxygen completely is 86%, not 84%.
Your 1/3 vs 2/3 ratio is probably wrong. It is probably 100% to one or the other. You would need to look at the actual metabolism of the body to see how the enzymes that do the work breaK down the fat molecule.

And which chain length of fat did you use? IIRC, the ratio of O is not constant, I htink there is only ony O for each triglyceride, in a hydroxyl molecule at the end of the chain? Or is it a glycerine molecule? Whatever, that last bit of the chain gets turned into a ketone, which have 7 cal/gram. Less than fat, more then glucose, because it already has one O .

But the O already in the fat is insignificant compared to how many Os get used from the air to do the O-verall reaction.
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Old 13th July 2017, 08:52 AM   #62
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Old 13th July 2017, 08:58 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Your 1/3 vs 2/3 ratio is probably wrong.
Oh, that's quite possible. But that's what the numbers say, if you use 84%/16%. I can't promise that 84%/16% split is correct, though.

Quote:
And which chain length of fat did you use?
C55H104O6, since that was used as the example.
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Old 13th July 2017, 10:41 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
Not exactly, but then you didn't ask about the ultimate distribution of the products, by weight
No, but the answer is that the bulk of the "ashes" are breathed out.
I guess many folks on the streets think you poop it out or sweat it out. Or that there is some magic going on. Or E = mc2.
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Old 13th July 2017, 10:42 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
...
So where does the O go?

If the 84% / 16% split between going to CO2 and H2O is correct, then that would mean about 2/3rds of the O from the fat goes out with the CO2, and 1/3rd goes out with the H2O. Not knowing the detailed chemistry of fat metabolism, that sounds at least plausible.
...
The video looks into that. I did not memorize the details, just the bulk result.
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Old 13th July 2017, 03:22 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
No, but the answer is that the bulk of the "ashes" are breathed out.
I guess many folks on the streets think you poop it out or sweat it out. Or that there is some magic going on. Or E = mc2.
If it were all converted to energy, it would be damned hard to lose even a single pound.
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Old 13th July 2017, 08:07 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
If it were all converted to energy, it would be damned hard to lose even a single pound.
How about a fraction of a gram? A small amount of mass can be convert into a massive amount of energy.

Getting back on topic, I promised you a YouTube above. Below is the YouTube. It says for every 10Kgs of fat burned will combine with 29Kgs of oxygen to produce 28 Kgs of CO2 and 11Kgs of water.


YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 14th July 2017, 10:04 PM   #68
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Sweat and urine I assume.
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Old 15th July 2017, 07:20 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
If it were all converted to energy, it would be damned hard to lose even a single pound.
On the contrary: It would be damned hard not to lose everything (including the city you are in plus a few millions of your neighbors).

Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
How about a fraction of a gram? A small amount of mass can be convert into a massive amount of energy.
ETA: On the other hand... lemme do a back-of-the-envelop: It is said that modern humans in the 21st century burn 2000 calories a day - that should correctly be kilo-calories, so 2,000,000 calories, that's (x4.184) 8,368,000 J per day, 3,054,320,000 per year (365 days), 244,345,600,000 J in 80 years.
E = mc2
<=> m = E/c2 = 244,345,600,000 kg m2/s2 / (300,000,000 m/s2) = 2.7 g

Ok I must say I am quite surpised that one's lifetime energy expenditure is equivalant to that little!

(It's true, isn't it, that the chemical compounds - fat, sugars, ... - that we burn on O2) actually do lose mass according to E = mc2? Those 2.7 g)
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Old 15th July 2017, 07:54 AM   #70
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Are you saying the heat/energy generated from a chemical reaction involves nuclear fission?
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Old 15th July 2017, 08:02 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Are you saying the heat/energy generated from a chemical reaction involves nuclear fission?
No, why would you think that?
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Old 15th July 2017, 09:26 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by IIIClovisIII View Post
Sweat and urine I assume.
The answer is actually given above -- it's mostly exhaled as CO2 and H2O.
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Old 15th July 2017, 09:55 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
No, why would you think that?
Oystein:
Quote:
(It's true, isn't it, that the chemical compounds - fat, sugars, ... - that we burn on O2) actually do lose mass according to E = mc2? Those 2.7 g)
How does mass get destroyed other than by a nuclear reaction?
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Old 15th July 2017, 11:27 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Oystein:


How does mass get destroyed other than by a nuclear reaction?
Nuclear reactions are not special in this regard. They are simply more energetic, enough so that the mass loss is measurable. But technically speaking, stretching a spring (which adds energy to it) will increase its mass. It's just that the amount of mass gain is too small to measure. Same with most chemical reactions: there is a mass change, but it's too small to worry about. What chemical reactions cannot do, though, is change the number and kind of atoms you're working with.
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Old 15th July 2017, 11:38 AM   #75
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( Sincere inquiry ..)What is the nature of the mass that lost in chemical reactions? What particles or fractions thereof?
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Old 15th July 2017, 11:48 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
( Sincere inquiry ..)What is the nature of the mass that lost in chemical reactions? What particles or fractions thereof?
No particles ate lost. Particle numbers are preserved.

One way of thinking about the lost mass is considering the electromagnetic fields. That's where chemical energy comes from, after all. Electromagnetic fields have an energy density, and thus there's an associated mass. You can even think of the electromagnetic field of a particle as contributing to the mass of that particle. In a lower energy state, the electromagnetic fields have less energy, and so there's less mass associated with those fields.
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Old 15th July 2017, 12:06 PM   #77
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The fat must not go anywhere! It is to duty of every American to carry at least three pounds of fat in their middle region. Otherwise it will go in to the atmosphere as..that gas I can't mention here.
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Old 15th July 2017, 12:53 PM   #78
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The fat goes to the same place as socks that disappear from the laundry. Duh!
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Old 15th July 2017, 01:45 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
The fat goes to the same place as socks that disappear from the laundry. Duh!
I was going to say that, but I didn't have the guts.
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Old 15th July 2017, 02:01 PM   #80
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It's been 4 days, and unbelievably, no-one has started a "Where does the bloody fart go when I let it loose?" thread yet. Honestly, this place is going to the dogs.
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