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Tags abstinence , abstinence education , sex education issues , Teresa Manning , Trump administration

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Old 16th July 2017, 02:05 PM   #1
Skeptic Ginger
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Abstinence Only and Birth Control Skeptic appointed to top women's health jobs in HHS

The Hill: New HHS appointee is Trump’s latest roadblock for women
Quote:
His appointments to the Department of Health and Human Services have only added insult to injury. Trump has appointed some of the nation’s worst anti-women’s health extremists to top cabinet posts in the agency, including the designation of birth control skeptic Teresa Manning to lead the nation’s family planning program.

And the administration’s newest HHS addition — Valerie Huber — is one of the most vocal advocates for harmful and misleading abstinence-only-until-marriage programs.
Huber:
Quote:
Huber was previously the president of Ascend, formerly the National Abstinence Education Association — a misnomer for anyone who believes education should include accurate information. The organization promotes programs that withhold critical information about birth control and condoms, and worse, often distort the facts.
Back to abstinence only just when we've made progress, but who cares about that evidence stuff when you have faith:
Quote:
Right now in this country, we are at a 30-year low for unintended pregnancy, a historic all-time low for teen pregnancy, and the lowest abortion rate since Roe v. Wade. It’s no coincidence that at the same time more people have access to highly effective no-copay birth control than ever before, and sexual health information is available 24/7 on PlannedParenthood.org — where 68 million people go each year for accurate, honest information.

I am reminded of GW Bush's asinine move pushing abstinence in Uganda where their incredible strides decreasing the HIV infection rate was reversed as abstinence propaganda replaced condom promotion.
Quote:
A senior United Nations official has accused President George Bush of "doing damage to Africa" by cutting funding for condoms, a move which may jeopardise the successful fight against HIV/Aids in Uganda....

In 2003, President Bush declared he would spend $15bn on his emergency plan for Aids relief, but receiving aid under the programme has moral strings attached.

Recipient countries have to emphasise abstinence over condoms, and - under a congressional amendment - they must condemn prostitution.
NPR 2006: Uganda, Abstinence and the Spread of HIV
Quote:
LAZARO: In just over a decade, a key measure, HIV prevalence among pregnant women, dropped from 30 percent to 6.5 percent by the early 2000s. Uganda's achievement won praise and more international aid....

But when it comes to prevention, there are worrying signs. After its steep decline, the HIV prevalence rate has stayed stubbornly plateaued at around 6.5 percent. About one million people, four percent of Uganda's entire population, are HIV positive....

LAZARO: Beatrice Ware became an AIDS activist after getting HIV from her husband. She says the American inspired abstinence campaigns do not protect women, many live in dire poverty, some in war zones where selling sex is a matter of survival. Being faithful doesn't protect women, she adds, noting that 40 percent of newly infected Ugandans today are married.

Ms. WARE: We know that for most women now marriage is not a safety net, that infections in marriage are on the increase. And we also know from, again, evidence based from research that for women negotiating safer sex is really a big challenge. And however faithful you might be, like I was, you cannot control the sexual behavior of your husband.
By 2011: In Uganda, HIV Infections on the Rise
Quote:
After a wildly successful campaign against AIDS in the 1990s, Uganda is now the only country in East Africa where the AIDS rate is actually rising. Some people attribute this to a Bush-era abstinence-only approach to AIDS prevention, a policy at odds with patterns of sexual behavior in Uganda.

Uganda was once a shining example of successful AIDS prevention, when, in the 1990s and early 2000s, it managed to slash its infection rate from around 15 percent to 6 percent. But for the past five years, infections have once again been on the rise, leading many people to question what went wrong.
As of 2015, the estimated HIV prevalence among adults (aged 15 to 49) stood at 7.1%.

The damage will no doubt be long-lived.
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Old 16th July 2017, 02:46 PM   #2
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I wish that any of that stuff was surprising. Awful policy and more political wins for the Trump administration.
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Old 17th July 2017, 08:21 AM   #3
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Trump Admin to Increase Abortions, Unwanted Pregnancy

By cutting over $200 million to programs and research aimed at reducing teen pregnancy.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...een-pregnancy/

Part of the reason is the same old promote abstinence even though it doesn't work.

We know the results of this will be increased unwanted teen pregnancy, increased abortions, and in general worse outcomes for both teens and the eventual children. Poverty, worse education, single parent or foster homes, and an increase to the 100,000+ children who can't find people to adopt them.

This is beyond idiotic as the actual results are counter productive to the intended result.
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Old 17th July 2017, 08:29 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
This is beyond idiotic as the actual results are counter productive to the intended result.
Well, yes and no.

They're counter-productive if your objective is to improve the physical and mental well-being of young people. If, on the other hand, your objective is to force your moral standpoint onto others and to behave sanctimoniously then the punishing of "sluts" who have sex out of wedlock is just an added bonus.

As a super-duper added bonus you then get the opportunity to behave hypocritically when your own little angel gets into trouble through no fault of your own
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Old 17th July 2017, 08:49 AM   #5
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This thread should be merged with this one: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=321497

I'll ask the mods to do that.
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Old 17th July 2017, 08:55 AM   #6
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Back to the 1950s! When everything was perfect!
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Old 17th July 2017, 09:56 AM   #7
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I think it's two different threads: Going solely off the title, this thread is about how the Trump admin is going to force people to have abortions and get pregnant. Your thread is about the appointment of certain people to HHS.
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Old 17th July 2017, 10:31 AM   #8
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I am appalled by this. You know we have evidenced based practice for a reason which is why these programs were funded to begin with....I think it's high time we hold legislators who support policy that isn't evidence based and results in poor social/economic outcomes as accountable for their actions. I can support evidenced based legislation regardless of party politics.
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Old 17th July 2017, 10:34 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
By cutting over $200 million to programs and research aimed at reducing teen pregnancy.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...een-pregnancy/

Part of the reason is the same old promote abstinence even though it doesn't work.

We know the results of this will be increased unwanted teen pregnancy, increased abortions, and in general worse outcomes for both teens and the eventual children. Poverty, worse education, single parent or foster homes, and an increase to the 100,000+ children who can't find people to adopt them.

This is beyond idiotic as the actual results are counter productive to the intended result.
This is the President who says grab them by the pussy. That president?
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Old 17th July 2017, 10:43 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
This is the President who says grab them by the pussy. That president?
How else do you perform an abortion?
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Old 17th July 2017, 10:56 AM   #11
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I'd like to know how and if this money is preventing teen pregnancy before we get any further.

I'd like to know if these particular programs are working.

Quote:
“We are just reeling. We’re not sure how we’ll adapt,” said Jennifer Hettema, an associate research professor at the University of New Mexico Health Sciences Center, which was finding ways to help doctors talk to Native American and Latino teens about avoiding pregnancy.

Does this help? Why are we relying on doctors talking to teens about avoiding pregnancy? Maybe it's a good idea, I'm just asking.

I don't believe pushing for abstinence is a realistic approach, although it's fine to teach as one of many methods of birth control.

I know nothing about these programs and I don't want to attack this drop in funding without answers to these questions just because it's Trump. It does smack of typical Republican anti-birth control BS (and probably is but I am trying to remain skeptical), but it doesn't mean the programs are effective.

Quote:
We know the results of this will be increased unwanted teen pregnancy, increased abortions, and in general worse outcomes for both teens and the eventual children.
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:18 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I'd like to know if these particular programs are working.
They don't. Invariably, abstinence only programs result in more teen pregnancies without exception. Not a problem for me, since my eldest is a lesbian. Might be a problem in the future since my youngest is an outright tart.

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Does this help? Why are we relying on doctors talking to teens about avoiding pregnancy? Maybe it's a good idea, I'm just asking.
Because there exists a coterie of parents who have serious hang-ups about anything remotely sexual. It seems to be a peculiarity of Americans (not all of them). As a father of two daughters, some eye-wateringly frank conversations occur. I don't mind and nor do they. It's called "honesty".

Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I don't believe pushing for abstinence is a realistic approach, although it's fine to teach as one of many methods of birth control.
We agree. But the US religious right continue to push it as if it worked. That only leads to back street abortions, coat hangers and the like. People die that way.
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:21 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I think it's two different threads: Going solely off the title, this thread is about how the Trump admin is going to force people to have abortions and get pregnant.
Result.
Quote:
Your thread is about the appointment of certain people to HHS.
Means.
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:24 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I'd like to know how and if this money is preventing teen pregnancy before we get any further.

I'd like to know if these particular programs are working.
Teen pregnancy and abortion rates are at all time lows.

Watch the rates go back up when the government trades out the current programs and replaces them with programs we know don't work by scientific-evidence-based research.
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:24 AM   #15
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It's true that the article is light on details of what the programs entail.

It does mention that some of it involves talking to teens and giving them factual information on sex/contraception. There is evidence that this approach works better than no information or abstinence only programs, which the new HHS secretary supports.

If any of the money goes to contraception and womens health organizations like planned parenthood, then it's a given.
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:29 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Well, yes and no.

They're counter-productive if your objective is to improve the physical and mental well-being of young people. If, on the other hand, your objective is to force your moral standpoint onto others and to behave sanctimoniously then the punishing of "sluts" who have sex out of wedlock is just an added bonus.

As a super-duper added bonus you then get the opportunity to behave hypocritically when your own little angel gets into trouble through no fault of your own
Your attack on them is sanctimonious.
Very few people are strictly consequentialist. It is not unreasonable for some people to value a moral stand as greater than better consequences with a compromise on that moral stand.
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Your attack on them is sanctimonious.
Very few people are strictly consequentialist. It is not unreasonable for some people to value a moral stand as greater than better consequences with a compromise on that moral stand.
They're the ones trying to force their moral belief, mostly based on religion, onto everyone else. Nothing stops any parent from talking to their kids about sex and personally promoting abstinence.

They morally stand for less teen sex, less abortions, and the opposite of that occurs using their moral strategy. That's not a moral stand, it's delusion and idiocy.
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:52 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
They're the ones trying to force their moral belief, mostly based on religion, onto everyone else. Nothing stops any parent from talking to their kids about sex and personally promoting abstinence.

They morally stand for less teen sex, less abortions, and the opposite of that occurs using their moral strategy. That's not a moral stand, it's delusion and idiocy.
They don't morally stand for less. They morally stand for opposition to. It is the resistance that counts, not the final number.
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Old 17th July 2017, 12:07 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Your attack on them is sanctimonious.
Very few people are strictly consequentialist. It is not unreasonable for some people to value a moral stand as greater than better consequences with a compromise on that moral stand.
Advocating a solution regardless of whether it works would seem to be the definition of unreasonable.
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Old 17th July 2017, 01:34 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
I think it's two different threads: Going solely off the title, this thread is about how the Trump admin is going to force people to have abortions and get pregnant. Your thread is about the appointment of certain people to HHS.
A flaming dog tird on the porch of humanity I would call it!!!!!!!!
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Old 17th July 2017, 01:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
A flaming dog tird on the porch of humanity I would call it!!!!!!!!
And, of course, it's supporters!!!!!
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Old 17th July 2017, 03:34 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Result.
Means.
Ah, so your argument is that this person has been appointed to HHS; therefore, the Trump admin is going to start forcing people to have abortions and get pregnant? Does this person advocate forced abortions/sex?

In any case, my post was a joke about the title of the old thread . . . doesn't really seem relevant anymore now that they erroneously () merged the two.
[/quote]
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Old 17th July 2017, 06:48 PM   #23
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Cutting funding for sex education and reproductive health care is working well in Texas......
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Old 17th July 2017, 10:05 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Your attack on them is sanctimonious.
That's your opinion - and one I do not share.

Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Very few people are strictly consequentialist. It is not unreasonable for some people to value a moral stand as greater than better consequences with a compromise on that moral stand.
Believe whatever you want but I personally don't like it when people force their religious ideologies on other people, damaging their welfare in the process and then trumpet the negative consequences as being "God's punishment" for their "slutty" behaviour. The fact that it overwhelmingly affects girls and young women (somehow the other person involved in the pregnancy seems to avoid most of the negative consequences) just add the frosting of misogyny to the cake of religious dogma

Your mileage clearly varies.....
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Old 17th July 2017, 10:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
That's your opinion - and one I do not share.



Believe whatever you want but I personally don't like it when people force their religious ideologies on other people, damaging their welfare in the process and then trumpet the negative consequences as being "God's punishment" for their "slutty" behaviour. The fact that it overwhelmingly affects girls and young women (somehow the other person involved in the pregnancy seems to avoid most of the negative consequences) just add the frosting of misogyny to the cake of religious dogma

Your mileage clearly varies.....
My mileage does not vary. I find people advocating these positions barbaric.
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Old 17th July 2017, 11:18 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Well, yes and no.

They're counter-productive if your objective is to improve the physical and mental well-being of young people. If, on the other hand, your objective is to force your moral standpoint onto others and to behave sanctimoniously then the punishing of "sluts" who have sex out of wedlock is just an added bonus.

As a super-duper added bonus you then get the opportunity to behave hypocritically when your own little angel gets into trouble through no fault of your own
It's doupleplus good if your goal is to annoy the liberals and get cheered at conservative rallies. People think Trump is dumb because his policies are dumb. But his policies aren't intended to serve the country, they're intended to pander to his dumb base. They do so better than any other policies would.

Furthermore, I have a nasty feeling there is a far more sinister plot at hand. By inciting the non-retard media to go against him all the time he's desensitizing the electorate against criticism of his presidency. When he'll screw up in something that will have clear, perhaps even deadly consequences for a substantial number of Americans, the combination of desensitization and cognitive dissonance will shield him and his presidency from the worst of the fallout. If this is what is going on, I hope it isn't but I'm afraid it is, then the policies are downright smart when looked at from his own narrow perspective. That doesn't make him a bad president, quite the opposite, but calling him dumb is inviting underestimating him, which can be outright dangerous.

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Old 17th July 2017, 11:51 PM   #27
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in practice, Abstinence teaching amounts to:

only oral and anal sex.
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Old 18th July 2017, 01:14 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
... I am reminded of GW Bush's asinine move pushing abstinence in Uganda where their incredible strides decreasing the HIV infection rate was reversed as abstinence propaganda replaced condom promotion.

The damage will no doubt be long-lived.
Not the first time this has happened. The US has often acted to support narrow interests, religious or commercial. One need go no further than Guatemala and the United Fruit Company. As for things that harm health when the people responsible know it is bad, leaded gasoline may take the cake.

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By the late 1920s, the role of the federal government transitioned from skeptical oversight to commercial support of Ethyl. It was then that the surgeon general began writing introduction letters for Ethyl Corporation officials to health ministers of foreign nations and “actively promoted Ethyl-brand leaded gasoline at European scientific conferences,” according to William J. Kovarik, a communications professor at Radford University.
The business of government is good-faith dispatch of the people's will, within the bounds of human rights, not to act as a corporate shill. Oops, guess that's naive.
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Old 18th July 2017, 03:33 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Back to the 1950s! When everything was perfect!
Was thinking exactly the same. Rock n roll, poodle skirts, chrome finned gas guzlers and mom's apple pie.
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Old 18th July 2017, 03:55 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Was thinking exactly the same. Rock n roll, poodle skirts, chrome finned gas guzlers and mom's apple pie.
....segregation, Jim Crow.....
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:01 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
....segregation, Jim Crow.....
That goes without saying.


Really.


It's what they mean, but don't want to say.
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Old 18th July 2017, 04:09 AM   #32
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There is that it has been described as one of the greatest inventions for its impact on the lives and indenties of women. A choice outside of the 1950s mom role.
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Old 18th July 2017, 05:16 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The Hill: New HHS appointee is Trump’s latest roadblock for women

Huber:

Back to abstinence only just when we've made progress, but who cares about that evidence stuff when you have faith:
You know, I've been going at this wrong all this time. Faith is just easier.

I should just give up evidence-based reasoning and go for faith. I should just make up a religion and pretend that I believe it long enough for my brain to stop understanding that it was made up in the first place. Now I don't need to worry about uncomfortable truths about reality, death and stuff like that. Maybe I could get a tax exemption or something, too. Bonus!

All I need to do is make that religion awesome.
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Old 18th July 2017, 05:37 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
By cutting over $200 million to programs and research aimed at reducing teen pregnancy.
Of course, you can't let those sinful teens get away unpunished. Children are gods punishment for sinful ways. Nobody likes kids, but you endure them as the punishments for your actions.
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Old 18th July 2017, 05:38 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
Back to the 1950s! When everything was perfect!
It did have really high teen pregnancy rates. The sluts really got what they had coming then.
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Old 18th July 2017, 05:41 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Cutting funding for sex education and reproductive health care is working well in Texas......
And they want to expand that success to the nation. You just have liberal values that think pregnancy and STI's are bad instead of justified punishments.
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Old 18th July 2017, 06:06 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And they want to expand that success to the nation. You just have liberal values that think pregnancy and STI's are bad instead of justified punishments.
Which brings me back to my recent refrain, Trump and the current state of the GOP aren't the result of some kind of trickery and pulling the wool over people's eyes, tens of millions of Americans actually want that kind of America.

They want poor people to starve, they want to be able to discriminate against people of a different faith, colour, gender or sexual orientation, they want a rule of law based on the 10 commandments and they want sluts to suffer if they have sex out of wedlock (boys OTOH are merely sowing their wild oats ).
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Old 18th July 2017, 08:46 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Of course, you can't let those sinful female teens get away unpunished. Children are gods punishment for sinful ways. Nobody likes kids, but you endure them as the punishments for your actions.
FTFY. Boys, after all, will be boys.
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Old 18th July 2017, 10:26 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Of course, you can't let those sinful teens get away unpunished. Children are gods punishment for sinful ways. Nobody likes kids, but you endure them as the punishments for your actions.
so far I've avoided such punishment and I intend to keep it that way
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Old 18th July 2017, 07:48 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
FTFY. Boys, after all, will be boys.
I agree that the anti-abortion movement, as a whole, is all about punishing women for having sex (consensual or not). The fact that their policies result in more STD's and abortions prove this.
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