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Old 9th October 2019, 04:49 PM   #81
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Quote:
Trump said, "Alliances are very easy."
The Trump persona in all its glory.
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:28 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
For all his " I am trying to bring the boys home" rhetoric,and his reluctance to use military force for fear of political consequences, I firmly believe Trump will get the US into a major war throught his sheer stupidity and ignorance.
Thing is, very few US troops have actually left the area. There are only a few in total anyway. There are still US troops and US allies' troops potentially in the firing line.

The trigger for this fiasco was Trump being rolled over like a puppy by a much smarter, cleverer and infinitely more ruthless dictator (and Putin, no doubt), while telling him he was a such good boy! Donny "The Great Negotiator!" Trump (Remember? That was his election catch-cry!) has been revealed to be the demented simpleton he really is. But instead of crashing a casino and bailing himself out with bankruptcy, this time he has started a real shooting war and the cost will be in lives and US cachet.

The only solution to stop this now is for Trump to order large-scale US military intervention. Financial bluster simply won't work. And military intervention is, amazingly!, the diametrical opposite of his election stance in 2016 and now for 2020. And that will dig the US in even deeper in the Middle East. I don't think Donny has anywhere near the cajones to do that.
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:34 PM   #83
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Three irony is that the troops stationed between Turkey and the Kurds would be the safest ones in the area. Neither of them want to be responsible for American deaths. They were effectively acting as peacekeepers.
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:46 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Three irony is that the troops stationed between Turkey and the Kurds would be the safest ones in the area. Neither of them want to be responsible for American deaths. They were effectively acting as peacekeepers.
Which is what makes this whole thing so damn suspicious. WHy did Donnie cave to Erdogan?
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:47 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
There are no options, some things simply can't be fixed. By the time any sanctions are agreed and have an effect Erdogan will have crushed the Kurds and pretty much guaranteed another round of destabilization in Syria.
I wonder. The Kurds have been fighting for their lives for 30 or 40 years. What have the Turkish armed forces done? Granted, the Kurds don't have the air power, but when it comes to ground fighting, what's going to happen?
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Old 9th October 2019, 06:49 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Thing is, very few US troops have actually left the area. There are only a few in total anyway. There are still US troops and US allies' troops potentially in the firing line.

The trigger for this fiasco was Trump being rolled over like a puppy by a much smarter, cleverer and infinitely more ruthless dictator (and Putin, no doubt), while telling him he was a such good boy! Donny "The Great Negotiator!" Trump (Remember? That was his election catch-cry!) has been revealed to be the demented simpleton he really is. But instead of crashing a casino and bailing himself out with bankruptcy, this time he has started a real shooting war and the cost will be in lives and US cachet.

The only solution to stop this now is for Trump to order large-scale US military intervention. Financial bluster simply won't work. And military intervention is, amazingly!, the diametrical opposite of his election stance in 2016 and now for 2020. And that will dig the US in even deeper in the Middle East. I don't think Donny has anywhere near the cajones to do that.
I think creditbility is a better word then cachet,and I think the consequences from this will cost American lives eventually.

But yeah, this is a disaster, and not just for the Kurds and the US. ISIS and Al Qaida just got a huge boost from this.and the chances of them being able to pull off major terrorist attacks in the West in general ..including the US..just went up. Nice work, Donnie, nice work.
The name Benedict Donald was never more appropriate.
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Old 9th October 2019, 09:58 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Gülen being a mastermind trying to take over Turkey is mostly a conspiracy theory made up by Erdogan and his cronies. The relationship between them is complicated.
In part it is true, taking over Turkey was his initial plan, hatched over twenty years ago, but Gülen never acted alone. He had an ally. You might recognize his name: Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.

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Old 9th October 2019, 10:31 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I wonder. The Kurds have been fighting for their lives for 30 or 40 years. What have the Turkish armed forces done? Granted, the Kurds don't have the air power, but when it comes to ground fighting, what's going to happen?
The fight against the Kurds in the west is in mountainous terrain.

Now it's completely flat.

That makes a huge difference.
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Old 9th October 2019, 10:33 PM   #89
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I stumbled upon a possible reason for Benedict Donald's actions in this regard.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/confl...b0fc935edf5be0

“I have a little conflict of interest ’cause I have a major, major building in Istanbul,” Trump boasted in response. “It’s a tremendously successful job. It’s called Trump Towers — two towers, instead of one, not the usual one; it’s two. And I’ve gotten to know Turkey very well. They’re amazing people, they’re incredible people. They have a strong leader.”

This was in 2015 with an interview with Breitbart. It seems kind of relevant still. Anybody up for a poster campaign of some sort?

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Old 9th October 2019, 11:36 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Gülen being a mastermind trying to take over Turkey is mostly a conspiracy theory made up by Erdogan and his cronies. The relationship between them is complicated.
their history is complicated - their current relationship is very straight-forward.
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Old 10th October 2019, 02:10 AM   #91
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Both Hawar and Firat Syrian Kurdish news agencies have been under heavy attack since yesterday and now sport robust new DDoS protection services.
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Old 10th October 2019, 02:16 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
The only solution to stop this now is for Trump to order large-scale US military intervention.

Large scale US military intervention against the second-largest army in NATO? Good idea...
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Old 10th October 2019, 04:12 AM   #93
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109 "terrorists" killed, says Erdogan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b63_story.html
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Old 10th October 2019, 04:19 AM   #94
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Trump said that the Kurds didn't help in WW2.

Germany, Italy, Japan and the Neutrals better take heed: Trump will sell you out with just a phone call.
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Old 10th October 2019, 04:40 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I am sure it is just coincidental that this is being announced at a time when the President's other deals are in the news.
Barn doors and bullet holes. Where was there ever a time that Trump did not have an embarrassing story he wanted to move off the front page?
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Old 10th October 2019, 05:31 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump said that the Kurds didn't help in WW2.

Germany, Italy, Japan and the Neutrals better take heed: Trump will sell you out with just a phone call.
Actually he specifically mentioned Normandy. There are a lot of allies who weren't directly involved in the Normandy landings they'd better watch their backs as well. Then again, Canada were at Normandy are are perceived as an enemy.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-relationship

Of course, President Trump just says stuff. Perhaps several Kurdish leaders can call him and tell him how great he is and he'll reverse his opinion vis-a-vis the Kurds.
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Old 10th October 2019, 05:58 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Actually he specifically mentioned Normandy. There are a lot of allies who weren't directly involved in the Normandy landings they'd better watch their backs as well. Then again, Canada were at Normandy are are perceived as an enemy.
I'm sure Trump has a list of Turks fighting on D-Day.
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Old 10th October 2019, 06:52 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
I can't say I often agree with you but I fear you are right. There will be a few days of wailing and hand wringing, denunciations of Erdogan and Trump, maybe a UN resolution calling for Turkey to show restraint and respect international law and then, nothing. Trump and Erdogan will march onto whatever bit of scumbaggery they have planned next without a mark on them.
The Security Council will do nothing when Russia and the US have no intention of stopping Turkey. This is only happening because Trump gave Erdogan the green light. And what a scumbag to ask “where were they at Normandy?”
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Old 10th October 2019, 06:54 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
"Alliances are very easy."
Just like trade wars.

What a ******* moron.
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Old 10th October 2019, 07:40 AM   #100
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I've started a wiki article on the mess.
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Old 10th October 2019, 09:30 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I wonder. The Kurds have been fighting for their lives for 30 or 40 years. What have the Turkish armed forces done? Granted, the Kurds don't have the air power, but when it comes to ground fighting, what's going to happen?
The Kurd's fight against ISIS was pretty dependent upon U.S. airpower, they seemed to work pretty well with the U.S. in terms of calling in close air support. They were fighting a force that had no aircraft other than modified hobby drones that dropped small bombs.

The Kurds were denied most any armor from the U.S., if they have any it would be things captured from ISIS. They were effective at hitting armor with missiles, but the U.S. required evidence of each and every missile fired (which also made for good Youtube videos) and maintained tight inventory control. They may not have many left.

They are probably at a significant disadvantage here. They'll have little ability to survive airstrikes in any open terrain, and may be forced to limit their fight to places with significant cover - cities and towns and places with rough terrain.

Fighting ISIS with U.S. support was probably very different than fighting Turkey without U.S. support.
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Old 10th October 2019, 09:55 AM   #102
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without air support or at least a no-fly zone, civilian Kurds are at great risk.
When it comes to direct engagement, they can probably give as good as they get, even against superior equipped forces.
And there seem to be rumors that maybe some US Special Forces decided to delay their withdrawal on their own recognizance to help out....
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Old 10th October 2019, 10:15 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
without air support or at least a no-fly zone, civilian Kurds are at great risk.
When it comes to direct engagement, they can probably give as good as they get, even against superior equipped forces.
And there seem to be rumors that maybe some US Special Forces decided to delay their withdrawal on their own recognizance to help out....
Or at least 'lost' or 'forgot' various ordnance supplies as they withdrew.
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Old 10th October 2019, 10:44 AM   #104
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And this is going to put strains on the NATO alliance, and never forget that the collapse of NATO is Putin''s #1 desire. Nice bonus for Putin from his dear friend Benedict Donald.
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Old 10th October 2019, 10:45 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
without air support or at least a no-fly zone, civilian Kurds are at great risk.
When it comes to direct engagement, they can probably give as good as they get, even against superior equipped forces.
And there seem to be rumors that maybe some US Special Forces decided to delay their withdrawal on their own recognizance to help out....
If one of them is killed,it will be interesting to see Donnie's reaction.
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Old 10th October 2019, 11:29 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I am beyond disgusted. We won't have an ally left in the world by the time Trump is through.
Russia surely. It will just be a race to see who will stab the other in the back first.
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Old 10th October 2019, 11:33 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Which is what makes this whole thing so damn suspicious. WHy did Donnie cave to Erdogan?
Because he always caves to dictators? See the entire history of this administration and north Korea.
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Old 10th October 2019, 11:07 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Actually he specifically mentioned Normandy. There are a lot of allies who weren't directly involved in the Normandy landings they'd better watch their backs as well. Then again, Canada were at Normandy are are perceived as an enemy.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e-relationship

Of course, President Trump just says stuff. Perhaps several Kurdish leaders can call him and tell him how great he is and he'll reverse his opinion vis-a-vis the Kurds.
They should just tell him they have dirt on Biden and Warren both, make something up to give him a teaser and tell him there's more where that came from if he makes Turkey stop the offensive. Tape the whole thing and hand over the tapes to the impeachment inquiry when he fulfills his part.

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Old 10th October 2019, 11:08 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Trump said that the Kurds didn't help in WW2.

Germany, Italy, Japan and the Neutrals better take heed: Trump will sell you out with just a phone call.
I'm pretty sure the Germans did fight in Normandy.

Trump shouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway.

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Old 10th October 2019, 11:28 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
I'm pretty sure the Germans did fight in Normandy.

Trump shouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway.

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There were good people on both sides.
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Old 11th October 2019, 03:33 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
There were good people on both sides.
True. An S or two on the uniform never hurt anybody.

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Old 11th October 2019, 09:24 AM   #112
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The public prosecutors office in Istanbul has now gone out and stated that, owing to Turkish military operations in Syria, anyone who criticizes the Turkish state will now be subject to a criminal investigation on suspicion of breaking parts of the anti-terrorism law.
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Old 11th October 2019, 09:33 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
The public prosecutors office in Istanbul has now gone out and stated that, owing to Turkish military operations in Syria, anyone who criticizes the Turkish state will now be subject to a criminal investigation on suspicion of breaking parts of the anti-terrorism law.
Trump's gonna be green with envy if he hears that.
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Old 11th October 2019, 10:08 AM   #114
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posted to wrong thread

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Old 11th October 2019, 10:09 AM   #115
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posted to wring thread

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Old 11th October 2019, 10:10 AM   #116
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posted to wrong thread
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Old 11th October 2019, 12:25 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
I'm pretty sure the Germans did fight in Normandy.

Trump shouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway.

McHrozni

We know the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor....
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Old 11th October 2019, 01:24 PM   #118
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Old 11th October 2019, 05:43 PM   #119
dudalb
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Nice going, Donnie.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b63_story.html
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Old Yesterday, 02:04 AM   #120
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