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Old 29th September 2019, 08:41 AM   #1
Cainkane1
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Unfurling the Confederate battle flag

After the civil war war-weary southerners wanted nothing more to do with the Confederate battle emblem. It had brought nothing but chaos, starvation, and death. Misery everywhere.

Well The KKK unfurled it and then the trouble began. It's no longer an unwanted symbol of a tragic part of American history but a new symbol of racism.

The KKK passes out fo favor and what happens. The Confederate flag replaces the Swastika in Europe.

I was watching a video about Islam in Alabama of all places and lo and behold the Confederate flag is prominently displayed. It an anti-Jewish symbol to them.

The Confederate battle emblem was never meant to be a flag of a nation or even an idea. It was a signal that the Confederate soldiers were about to go into a battle.

A Scotsman designed it. The cross is similar to the flag of Scotland. I wonder what he would think if he knew that every skinhead, kkk member, Nazi, and now the Muslims flew his banner?

There is a post-civil war song that says the emblem should never be unfurled but it has been in a very negative way.
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Old 29th September 2019, 09:04 AM   #2
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I spent part of the '90s in the South. Confederate Battle Flag stickers with "Heritage, Not Hate" were quite popular, even being seen on police cars. Some clever person came up with smaller stickers with "Of" printed on them that just covered up the ", Not".
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Old 29th September 2019, 09:09 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
I spent part of the '90s in the South. Confederate Battle Flag stickers with "Heritage, Not Hate" were quite popular, even being seen on police cars. Some clever person came up with smaller stickers with "Of" printed on them that just covered up the ", Not".
That was vandalism. In my opinion, the emblem shouldn't be there in the first place as it stirs up negative memories and emotions. However, like an evil Genie, the emblem is all over the place in a very hateful negative way.
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Old 29th September 2019, 09:47 AM   #4
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It is on the same level as the Nazi swastika*. They are both symbols of hate, not heritage.

* I'm well aware of the Hindu swastika, with which I have no problem. It isn't difficult to differentiate between the Hindu and Nazi swastikas.
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Old 29th September 2019, 10:40 AM   #5
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Loser's flag
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Old 29th September 2019, 10:45 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
It is on the same level as the Nazi swastika*. They are both symbols of hate, not heritage.

* I'm well aware of the Hindu swastika, with which I have no problem. It isn't difficult to differentiate between the Hindu and Nazi swastikas.
It is a symbol of hate now but to began with it wasn't a symbol of anything. It merely made it known that the Confederate soldiers were either going to be fighting or were already. My premise is that it should never be unfurled for any reason even it if was humanitarian.

Whether Southeasterners like it or not the emblem signifies the south and it conjures up images of soldiers fighting to preserve slavery and secede from the Union.

It has been taken way beyond its original purpose. I considerer it very immoral.
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Old 29th September 2019, 10:51 AM   #7
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The true offense is how ugly it is. Orangey-red is a terrible shade to begin with, pairing it with navy blue is even worse. St Andrew's crosses are tricky designwise, they work best when either the cross or its background are significantly lighter. A strong color on white is fine, or the reverse. But two strong hues is just messy. And the stars are just adding clutter.

If you're going to cause a stir with a symbol you should at least make it look good!
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Old 29th September 2019, 10:54 AM   #8
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Old 29th September 2019, 11:02 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The true offense is how ugly it is. Orangey-red is a terrible shade to begin with, pairing it with navy blue is even worse. St Andrew's crosses are tricky designwise, they work best when either the cross or its background are significantly lighter. A strong color on white is fine, or the reverse. But two strong hues is just messy. And the stars are just adding clutter.

If you're going to cause a stir with a symbol you should at least make it look good!
You pretty much described the American flag. It has the exact same colors.
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Old 29th September 2019, 11:03 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Darn it, I said not to unfurl the darn thing.
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Old 29th September 2019, 11:06 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
A Scotsman designed it.
A Scotsman? May I ask who, why and when? The origin of the battle flag as related by wiki is even more ironic.
That flag was a blue St George's Cross (an upright or Latin cross) on a red field, with 15 white stars on the cross, representing the slaveholding states, and, on the red field, palmetto and crescent symbols. Miles received a variety of feedback on this design, including a critique from Charles Moise, a self-described "Southerner of Jewish persuasion." Moise liked the design but asked that "...the symbol of a particular religion not be made the symbol of the nation." Taking this into account, Miles changed his flag, removing the palmetto and crescent, and substituting a heraldic saltire
So the saltire was adopted on the initiative of a Jew who thought the original design was too Christian. Tell that to the KKK!
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Old 29th September 2019, 11:23 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
A Scotsman? May I ask who, why and when? The origin of the battle flag as related by wiki is even more ironic.
That flag was a blue St George's Cross (an upright or Latin cross) on a red field, with 15 white stars on the cross, representing the slaveholding states, and, on the red field, palmetto and crescent symbols. Miles received a variety of feedback on this design, including a critique from Charles Moise, a self-described "Southerner of Jewish persuasion." Moise liked the design but asked that "...the symbol of a particular religion not be made the symbol of the nation." Taking this into account, Miles changed his flag, removing the palmetto and crescent, and substituting a heraldic saltire
So the saltire was adopted on the initiative of a Jew who thought the original design was too Christian. Tell that to the KKK!
Well since I object to the use of the flag in all situations this revelation of yours merely adds fuel to my anti-Confederate battle emblem fire. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 29th September 2019, 11:31 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
You pretty much described the American flag. It has the exact same colors.
It certainly does not. If you can't tell the difference between those reds you have defective hue differentiation. The Confederate flag is distinctly orangish. The US flag's red is solely red. Not to mention the complete design difference: one's an X and the other is stripes with a rectangle.

I'm not saying the US flag is particularly attractive, but it's way better than the Confederate "battle flag" we're talking about.

As far as best flag designs go I like Barbados best. Attractive colors, simple but elegant design, easily distinguished from other flags, recognizable, and simple to draw. It has dignity yet an undertone of playfulness. An excellent flag on all counts.
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Old 29th September 2019, 12:41 PM   #14
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I agree with Cainkane here. Even if for some odd reason people want to honor the heritage of hate and loss with symbols of the disaster the Union defeated, the only reason to unfurl a battle flag is to announce that the battle is still on, which means (as it's pretty clear it often does mean) that one still promotes the bigoted principles of the Confederacy.

Last time that flag was flown correctly, my ancestors defeated it. It's for sore losers now.
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:16 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by shemp View Post
It is on the same level as the Nazi swastika*. They are both symbols of hate, not heritage.

* I'm well aware of the Hindu swastika, with which I have no problem. It isn't difficult to differentiate between the Hindu and Nazi swastikas.
Only since Charleston

It was basically nothing till the left got all offended by it after that
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:23 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Only since Charleston

It was basically nothing till the left got all offended by it after that
It certainly had no political or social meaning. You saw the flag and it meant a battle. Nothing more.
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Old 29th September 2019, 02:26 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
...So the saltire was adopted on the initiative of a Jew who thought the original design was too Christian. Tell that to the KKK!

So the flag was done as satire?

Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
A Scotsman? May I ask who, why and when? The origin of the battle flag as related by...

So the saltire was adopted on the initiative of a Jew who thought the original design was too Christian. Tell that to the KKK!

Certainly NOT a true Scotsman!!
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Old 29th September 2019, 03:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
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Old 29th September 2019, 03:29 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Lol

Missed that
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Old 29th September 2019, 03:34 PM   #20
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I don't remember Lynyrd Skynyrd or the Dukes of Hazard ever being controversial when they were popular. I didn't watch that show myself, but this recent controversy of the Confederate flag seems awfully manufactured to me.
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Old 29th September 2019, 03:46 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Ron Obvious View Post
I don't remember Lynyrd Skynyrd or the Dukes of Hazard ever being controversial when they were popular. I didn't watch that show myself, but this recent controversy of the Confederate flag seems awfully manufactured to me.
The movie version of the Duke's of Hazzard was only in 2005 and no one said anything then either.

o2 years later when they made a TV movie
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 29th September 2019, 03:57 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cl...2-confederate/
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:04 PM   #23
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All I can say is, I have never personally met anyone who flies that flag - be it via a tattoo, a bumper sticker, a porch flag, or what have you - who doesn't also harbor racist sentiments. And I have a surprisingly high sample set to work with, having grown up in backwoods Pennsylvania.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:05 PM   #24
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:07 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
As we've seen in another thread, "Unproven" on Snopes is supposed to mean "definitely false".
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:13 PM   #26
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Quote:
Our ruling
D’Souza tweeted out to nearly 200,000 followers a photograph of 21-year-old Hillary Clinton that appeared to feature a Confederate battle flag in the background. But as a look at the original images makes clear, the photograph has been manipulated to include the flag, and D’Souza’s accompanying comment in the tweet doesn’t indicate that he was aware of the fakery. (He later corrected the tweet.) We rate the claim Pants on Fire.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ag-nope-old-i/


And another fake, courtesy of Dinesh D'Souza
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:15 PM   #27
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And a fake Obama flag.


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/co...acy-of-hoaxes/
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:39 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
All I can say is, I have never personally met anyone who flies that flag - be it via a tattoo, a bumper sticker, a porch flag, or what have you - who doesn't also harbor racist sentiments. And I have a surprisingly high sample set to work with, having grown up in backwoods Pennsylvania.
Ditto here in New England. It's largely flown on pickup trucks by young men who seem to like to fancy themselves as conservative or libertarian rebels. It's a safe bet that they have no Confederate connection. If they're not racist, it's likely that they're just too stupid and thoughtless to understand what they claim to represent, thinking of their rebellion as nebulous anti-establishment angst.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:47 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Ron Obvious View Post
I don't remember Lynyrd Skynyrd or the Dukes of Hazard ever being controversial when they were popular. I didn't watch that show myself, but this recent controversy of the Confederate flag seems awfully manufactured to me.
Absolutely. If the flag has been stolen by deplorables, it's time to steal it back.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:47 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
https://www.politifact.com/punditfac...ag-nope-old-i/


And another fake, courtesy of Convicted Felon Dinesh D'Souza
Fixed that for you.
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Old 29th September 2019, 04:55 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Ron Obvious View Post
I don't remember Lynyrd Skynyrd or the Dukes of Hazard ever being controversial when they were popular. I didn't watch that show myself, but this recent controversy of the Confederate flag seems awfully manufactured to me.
I grew up in the 1990s and 2000s, and for as long as I can remember, it's been widely recognized as a symbol of racism. In fact one time, when I was around 13 (so 2003 or 2004, as far as I can guess based on my location of this memory), I even called out a friend when he bought a confederate flag T-shirt. I was good friends with this person, but, because he didn't value education at all, he constantly said and did dumb things. In fact, buying shirts with symbolism he didn't understand was something he did all the time (although usually music related). When I saw him wearing the shirt, I asked if he knew it was usually used for racism, but he was adamant it was just a "rebel" flag that meant he was a rebel.

Now, I grew up in neighborhoods that were poor and very diverse ethnically. My friend grew up slightly more well off, lived in a lower-middle class area that was mostly white, and came from a family with strong redneck leanings (including casual racism). The difference in our perception of the flag probably had a lot to do with the difference in our communities; after all, if something isn't used as a symbol of hate against someone, they don't typically have to care about it as much. Similarly, when certain things are normalized, you tend not to notice places where controversy might come up. I'm sure it also had a lot to do with our knowledge of history. As I said, my friend saw basically no value in education, but I was always regarded as the "smart kid" that frequently read and watched documentaries. Among those were pieces on PBS about the civil rights movement. I'm entirely sure my friend really had no idea about the history of the flag, whereas I'd seen it used directly to support racism in historical contexts.

Last edited by ArchSas; 29th September 2019 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 29th September 2019, 05:25 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The movie version of the Duke's of Hazzard was only in 2005 and no one said anything then either.

o2 years later when they made a TV movie
Yeah, well for a while the attitude was 'let the rednecks have their loser flag' combined with some efforts to at least get the thing off the state flags, but then certain events led to people thinking that this crap of pretending it wasn't a problem wasn't going to work.
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Old 29th September 2019, 05:46 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Anybody can make a button for the cost of some printer ink and about $3.00 worth of supplies from Hobby Lobby.

But hey, you've got your thing. Just keep on believin'.
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Old 29th September 2019, 06:03 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
All I can say is, I have never personally met anyone who flies that flag - be it via a tattoo, a bumper sticker, a porch flag, or what have you - who doesn't also harbor racist sentiments. And I have a surprisingly high sample set to work with, having grown up in backwoods Pennsylvania.
Even where I live, we had a US Marine veteran with a Confederate Flag Tat who loved Trump and wouldn't shut up about it. He is no longer with us (literally and figuratively)...I mean that. "Went fishing" was the police report.
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Old 29th September 2019, 10:16 PM   #35
cullennz
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Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Even where I live, we had a US Marine veteran with a Confederate Flag Tat who loved Trump and wouldn't shut up about it. He is no longer with us (literally and figuratively)...I mean that. "Went fishing" was the police report.
Great. Corrupt cops.
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Old 29th September 2019, 11:06 PM   #36
Mumbles
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Originally Posted by Ron Obvious View Post
I don't remember Lynyrd Skynyrd or the Dukes of Hazard ever being controversial when they were popular. I didn't watch that show myself, but this recent controversy of the Confederate flag seems awfully manufactured to me.
Well, that could be. Certainly, I liked Dukes of Hazzard as a little kid - but today? Eehhh...best to see the General Lee as an anachronism at best, one that likely wouldn't make it onto tv today.

(I know I've never gone near anything related to Lynyrd whoever, but we weren't listening to rock music of any kind regardless when I was growing up - and by the time I did start listening to it, the Confederate battle flag was why I gave them a hard pass).
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Old 30th September 2019, 03:52 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
After the civil war war-weary southerners wanted nothing more to do with the Confederate battle emblem. It had brought nothing but chaos, starvation, and death. Misery everywhere.

Well The KKK unfurled it and then the trouble began. It's no longer an unwanted symbol of a tragic part of American history but a new symbol of racism.
Yea because basing a nation on the supremacy of the white race and subjugation of the black race was never the real problem. That is good old fashion heritage.

Quote:
The Confederate battle emblem was never meant to be a flag of a nation or even an idea. It was a signal that the Confederate soldiers were about to go into a battle.
And was of course the upper corner of the official confederate flag. Surrounded by a sea of white representing the supremacy of the white race.
Quote:
There is a post-civil war song that says the emblem should never be unfurled but it has been in a very negative way.
As opposed to during when it was about white supremacy.
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Old 30th September 2019, 03:59 AM   #38
cullennz
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Well, that could be. Certainly, I liked Dukes of Hazzard as a little kid - but today? Eehhh...best to see the General Lee as an anachronism at best, one that likely wouldn't make it onto tv today.

(I know I've never gone near anything related to Lynyrd whoever, but we weren't listening to rock music of any kind regardless when I was growing up - and by the time I did start listening to it, the Confederate battle flag was why I gave them a hard pass).
Good band musically wise if you take out the sudden hate tbf

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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 30th September 2019 at 04:02 AM.
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Old 30th September 2019, 04:49 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Anybody can make a button for the cost of some printer ink and about $3.00 worth of supplies from Hobby Lobby.

But hey, you've got your thing. Just keep on believin'.
awwwww
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Old 30th September 2019, 04:54 AM   #40
Craig B
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
So the flag was done as satire?




Certainly NOT a true Scotsman!!
Perhaps it was a True Scotsman. There's no rule about True Scotsmen not designing racist flags. I'm sure they've done that, or worse, in the past.
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