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1st May 2018, 05:16 PM | #1 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Location: WA USA
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Another WA Gun Initiative.
The passage of I-594 (universal bkgd checks) was a big boost for the gun control crowd a few years ago. It seems some people are ignoring the new laws created by the initiative and only one arrest has been made. Some people do go through a dealer to make a private sale, but as far as I know, most people still don't bother. At least one provision of I-594 has been eased. For example it is no longer a crime to allow a friend to shoot your gun at the local gun club without a bkgd check.
https://gunresponsibility.org/news/b...ssault-weapon/
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When Hawaii passed a similar law in the 90's, many people used the hunter safety course to obtain proof of the course.
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https://www.sos.wa.gov/_assets/elect...446pm_364.docx While most definitions of assault weapons say something like semi-auto that have 1 or 2 of a list of six various features, this initiative will define all semi-auto rifles as assault rifles; except for antiques and non-functioning guns.
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1st May 2018, 05:27 PM | #2 |
Penultimate Amazing
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They're just gun nuts. They're a sacrifice I'm willing to make. It's good that people would be unsure or scared to buy or transfer guns. If it gets gun ownership rates down, it's a positive.
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1st May 2018, 07:59 PM | #3 |
Penultimate Amazing
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1st May 2018, 11:25 PM | #4 |
Penultimate Amazing
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But the data suggests the number of gun owners is going down. It's more guns going into the same hands. We don't appear to be generating new gun owners.
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2nd May 2018, 03:57 AM | #5 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Just move to VA, then you don't even need a license to carry concealed. A true gun owners paradise.
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2nd May 2018, 03:58 AM | #6 |
Orthogonal Vector
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2nd May 2018, 05:54 AM | #7 |
Illuminator
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Regarding that bit specifically :
I've long been of the opinion that safety training should be mandatory for anyone purchasing a firearm (mainly because of the mind-numbingly stupid things I've seen/heard of people doing in no way related to self defense or crisis situations), but have wondered if that would be practical in reality. Would there be places where the courses were so expensive that it put things out of reach for people? Or places where there simply weren't courses offered anywhere remotely near by? Would there have to be state/federal guidelines drawn up for what the courses had to teach and how (to prevent, say, me from charging people $100 to tell them "don't keep it loaded and unlocked at home" then sending them on their way with a cert)? I haven't owned a firearm or gone shooting in years so this is all academic for me at this point. Curious if you think the safety training bit is workable and/or a good thing in this case? Oh, and that "Require informed consent" part looks utterly asinine. Comes off just as transparent as requiring doctors to tell women about all the horrors abortion might bring before performing one. |
2nd May 2018, 06:21 AM | #8 |
Penultimate Amazing
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2nd May 2018, 06:24 AM | #9 |
Orthogonal Vector
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2nd May 2018, 07:57 AM | #10 |
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2nd May 2018, 01:51 PM | #11 |
Penultimate Amazing
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2nd May 2018, 01:56 PM | #12 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I'm certain there are going to be people who will have a hard time finding the services required to able to buy a gun. In Western WA where I live and in Hawaii where I used to live various gun clubs have stepped up to provide the required training for a reasonable price.
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2nd May 2018, 02:03 PM | #13 |
Philosopher
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Gun owners should be required to purchase "gun insurance".
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2nd May 2018, 02:03 PM | #14 |
Penultimate Amazing
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2nd May 2018, 02:11 PM | #15 |
Penultimate Amazing
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2nd May 2018, 02:35 PM | #16 |
Penultimate Amazing
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This is a not an unprecedented state of affairs - we do the same thing by restricting alcohol sales to over 21, even though it's 18 for tobacco products. It's true that's inconsistent ... but is it much of a hardship, in practice?
As others have pointed out, this seems to be inaccurate. My methodology is loose - "gun sales have fallen" yields 10 million hits, "gun sales have risen" yields 1 million hits. Can you indicate how you're getting your data? |
2nd May 2018, 02:44 PM | #17 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Smith & Wesson? How many companies should be involved in order to make the point?
I'm not a gun control idealist ... I just really wonder where you are getting your data. I've seen a couple of explanations. "They are coming for your guns" helps gun sales, "Don't worry, your rights are secure" doesn't. Also, abbreviated deer seasons due to climate issues. |
2nd May 2018, 05:10 PM | #18 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I'm restricting my remarks to WA; my place of residence at this time. The few searches I've made on the net show that sales are increasing. http://q13fox.com/2016/06/16/washing...gun-purchases/
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2nd May 2018, 05:14 PM | #19 |
Penultimate Amazing
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3rd May 2018, 04:46 AM | #20 |
Orthogonal Vector
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https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...ckpiling-guns/
"Since the 2008 election of President Obama, the number of firearms manufactured in the U.S. has tripled, while imports have doubled. This doesn’t mean more households have guns than ever before—that percentage has stayed fairly steady for decades. Rather, more guns are being stockpiled by a small number of individuals. Three percent of the population now owns half of the country’s firearms, says a recent, definitive study from the Injury Control Research Center at Harvard University." |
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3rd May 2018, 04:48 AM | #21 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Yes
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...-t-be-recalled They are specifically exempted from laws that permit the government to issue a product recall. But hey even if the gun goes off in a holster with the safety on it is still a negligent discharge so the guys son in the story was really the negligent one not the manufacturer. |
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3rd May 2018, 04:49 AM | #22 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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3rd May 2018, 04:51 AM | #23 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Many gun manufacterers expanded greatly to deal with the obama response gun surge, when Trump was elected sales slumped and this is causing many to go bankrupt. The all in that sentence is that many have gone bankrupt not a claim that all gun manufacturers have.
You seem remarkably ignorant of recent trends and laws effecting gun safety for someone so into guns. |
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3rd May 2018, 04:53 AM | #24 |
Orthogonal Vector
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3rd May 2018, 07:27 AM | #25 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Or so your link says. What does the law actually say?
http://thedataface.com/2018/03/economy/us-gun-sales This link shows that sales have greatly increased in WA over the last several years but dipped from 2016 to 2017. Bankruptcy doesn't actually mean a business stops selling products. It can mean a restructuring. If they go out of business then creditors might not be able to get their money back. |
3rd May 2018, 07:41 AM | #26 |
Orthogonal Vector
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How about what the Consumer Product Saftey comission says?
" (iii) Recalls Additionally, CPSC works well with industry to recall products that, due to a design or manufacturing defect, are unreasonably dangerous. CPSC works closely with companies to put together a Corrective Action Plan to address the hazard, and then monitors the recall to make sure it is effective. Every year the CPSC works with scores of firms to conduct hundreds of recalls, covering consumer products as varied as infant toys, power tools, and even bulletproof vests. b. CPSC Having Jurisdiction Would Make Guns Safer Under our present statutory restrictions, we cannot work with industry to pass voluntary standards, pass mandatory standards, work with manufacturers or retailers to recall defective guns or ammunition, and we cannot study the patterns of unintentional deaths and injuries associated with guns. Any of these activities could, without infringing any Second Amendment right, help make guns less likely to cause accidental deaths and injuries." https://leadership.cpsc.gov/robinson...ke-guns-safer/ Guns are inherently safe unlike say a microwave. |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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3rd May 2018, 07:45 AM | #27 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Your own link shows an across the board drop in 2017 and calls it the Trump Slump with a
"From a myopic view, however, gun sale statistics for 2017 present an interesting anomaly. Estimated gun sales actually declined by over 11% nationwide in 2017. It’s the third largest year-over-year decline in sales since the NICS was implemented."
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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3rd May 2018, 07:52 AM | #28 |
Penultimate Amazing
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This is what I was looking for but others were unwilling to provide.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/2052
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Gun recalls would be on topic if they were part of the initiative in the original post; but they're not. |
3rd May 2018, 08:24 AM | #29 |
Orthogonal Vector
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No one wants guns to be effectively regulated though the laws hamstringing the BATFE are quite clear in that regard.
And we see here the way it always seems people are for some kind of universal background check and yet never for any law that does it. It is that people like it in theory but in practice it would be too much of a hassle and are willing to deal with the consequences. |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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3rd May 2018, 10:31 AM | #30 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Can you show me a bill that requires bkgd checks for all gun sales to unlicensed persons but does not over regulate the issue to the point where a bkgd check is required to just hold a gun in your hand or reside with a gun owner you are not related to?
WA's I-594 went way overboard in that manner. It was not just bkgd checks for gun sales. For a while it was a potential felony just to hold and/or shoot a friend's gun at a rifle range unless the friend got a bkgd check prior to shooting the gun and the owner got a bkgd check prior to taking the gun back. People say they want universal bkgd checks and the bills they get are like the garbage that was I-594. |
3rd May 2018, 09:40 PM | #31 |
Philosopher
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I wonder what happens when everyone is carrying a gun? Kinda meaningless at that point.
"Hey how about we all drop our guns and get rid of the several pounds of dead weight hangin' on our belts? Ain't much sense of us all carrying one, may as well nobody have one! Can I get a 'yeehaw'?" Someone above compared regulating alcohol and tobackie with guns, but y'all forget about that second amendment thing. Y'ain't got no right to get poop-faced. |
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Why bother? Last edited by mgidm86; 3rd May 2018 at 09:41 PM. Reason: changed a word to void autocensor cuz I don't like to cuss here. Bitches. |
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5th May 2018, 07:43 AM | #32 |
Penultimate Amazing
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More about the proposed definition of an assault rifle.
"Semiautomatic assault rifle” means any rifle which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge." This would make any non-antique semi-auto rifle an assault weapon including the Ruger 10/22 and Marlin Model 60. It would also exclude rifles like the AR-10 and AR-15 made in 1969 and earlier. |
7th May 2018, 04:07 AM | #33 |
Orthogonal Vector
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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7th May 2018, 09:33 AM | #34 |
Illuminator
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7th May 2018, 03:25 PM | #35 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Why do you think I'm not taking any action at all? I talk about gun control all the time on this forum and I usually include those times when I'm able to talk to the politicians who write the law.
I sent my recommendations to the WAGR. Turns out they seem to be rather xenophobic. They didn't really want my input and when they promised me answers to questions I had about why they wrote I-594 the way they did, they never got around to giving any. I've also given input to Jinkins, Kline and am trying to talk to Kilmer. While the state level politicians are willing to at least listen, talking to Kilmer (my rep in DC) is like talking to a brick wall that has an aide standing in front of it that tells lies. |
7th May 2018, 03:29 PM | #36 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I think it has to do with perception. If they want to more strictly regulate semi-auto rifles, then all of a sudden they're going after grandfather's guns. If they label them as assault rifles, then they're going after those military grade murder machines that no civilian really wants to own unless they're a gun nut.
I thought this would be obvious seeing as how the label "assault weapon" is so carelessly thrown around these days. |
8th May 2018, 03:51 PM | #37 |
Graduate Poster
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Boy are the leftists going to be surprised when they find out we are not going to be giving up our guns. The Constitution is very clear, and is on our side.
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8th May 2018, 10:54 PM | #38 |
Penultimate Amazing
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There is nothing in this propose initiative that is related to banning guns other than for those adults that have not reached the age of 21.
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8th May 2018, 11:22 PM | #39 |
Now. Do it now.
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"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here. |
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9th May 2018, 01:22 AM | #40 |
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