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1st July 2019, 11:43 AM | #41 |
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Hamilton 68: Tracking Russian internet propaganda |
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1st July 2019, 11:44 AM | #42 |
Nasty Woman
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I believe several people in this thread are trying to distract from the issue with their usual shiny object distraction: Nitpick something in the thread title then try to steer the discussion into a debate about the nitpick.
This is an oft' repeated tactic used by the same people, probably done unconsciously. Shift the argument to something about the OP and away from anything about Trump. I think I'll copy/save that last paragraph to paste into other applicable threads. |
1st July 2019, 11:47 AM | #43 |
"más divertido"
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1st July 2019, 11:49 AM | #44 |
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I think it's fair to say that I'm not doing that, and the only reason I brought anything up at all is because the statement of the OP is wrong. As in, it's not correct.
Nonetheless, as we've stated, this has little to nothing to do with Trump. I hate that stupid sack of limp dicks as much as anyone, but the fact remains that there is no proof Trump had any input at all. In fact, outside of the guy working for a company that got hired by Trump, this has exactly **** all to do with Trump at all. As has been pointed out, Dems do this **** too. It's nothing to get bent out of shape about. |
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1st July 2019, 12:23 PM | #45 |
Nasty Woman
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OK, give it honorable mention. Don't keep the thread off-topic on that particular nitpick until Safe-Keeper says 'uncle' to your satisfaction.
If you don't think a consulting company that Trump used in 2016 and is using again in 2020 amounts to an "official" give it the label you think applies and move the discussion back to the actual issue, Trump or the Trump campaign is supporting quite dishonest tactics. If this had been an unrelated agency of individual, Trump is less culpable. He could make an announcement the campaign doesn't approve and leave it at that. But this is a company they used in the past and are continuing to do business with, not an unrelated individual. |
1st July 2019, 12:43 PM | #46 |
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If we take the fact that the individual isn't really related to the campaign at all, then what would the thread title say? "Guy makes Joe Biden parody site". Neat. I think that the fact that he really isn't representative of the campaign at all (which is implied by saying he's an official) is pretty important.
You're spending as much time as I am splitting this particular hair. This isn't "a consulting company" that's making the site. It's not even that. It's a guy that works for the consulting company pissing around on his own time, making parody websites. I don't find this to be particularly dishonest or associated with Trump. It's a pretty big stretch to get there. Again, the company isn't doing it. A person that works for the company is doing it. I know that, for some reason, that seems to be a minor detail to you, but I don't agree. For the final time, the company isn't making the website. I run several URL's that I handle on my own time. None of them are representative of the company I work for at all, and they wouldn't claim any of them. When I build those sites, I'm not working for my company. I'm pissing around on my own time. |
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“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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1st July 2019, 01:13 PM | #47 |
Nasty Woman
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I'm not spending any time on it except pointing out the attempt to switch the debate from Trump to the OP's wording of the thread title.
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1st July 2019, 01:18 PM | #48 |
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No ****. I even said that, because Trump has nothing to do with this and that's the point. The wording implies he does, not the least bit ironic that I just pointed out you were spending as much time on it as I am.
The fact is that this has nothing to do with Trump at all, as desperately as you want it too. It just doesn't. |
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1st July 2019, 02:15 PM | #49 |
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There have been many cases of people getting fired for things they do in their spare time if it brings their employer into disrepute.
It doesn't matter if this guy was paid to make the fake Biden site; he is employed by Trump's campaign, therefore any public political statement he makes is part of his job. If he made an anti-Trump website in his spare time I'm pretty sure he'd be out of a job. |
1st July 2019, 02:20 PM | #50 |
Nasty Woman
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1st July 2019, 02:21 PM | #51 |
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While not saying you are wrong, I don't agree that's generally the case. Also, again, he isn't employed by Trump's campaign. He works at the company that did business with Trump. My company has dozens of accounts I'll never touch or do any work for. Therefor I don't work for them, I work for my company. The company does work for them. That's exactly the same situation.
That does make me happy I don't work for a company that would **** on me like that though. I didn't agree with the woman getting fired that gave the POTUS the middle finger, and I don't agree with this. |
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1st July 2019, 02:22 PM | #52 |
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1st July 2019, 02:24 PM | #53 |
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I did argue the highlighted, repeatedly. I did it by saying "He doesn't work for the campaign, he works for the company. The company works for the campaign" but you weren't having it. In fact, I'm shocked you're pointing this out at all.
I feel like I've explained this multiple times. Perhaps you should stop telling me what I should and shouldn't be able to discuss and pay attention to what I'm saying. The reason Trump has nothing to do with it is because he gave no directive to make this site, that's supported by any evidence. He didn't have a hand in it. He didn't design it, he didn't request the company to design it, he didn't pay for it, he didn't host it, he literally had ******* nothing to do with it. The only connection you're finding is that the employee that DID do it works for the company that has worked for the Trump campaign and might work for his campaign again. The person who did this did it all on their own time has a hobby. Just like I do, but none of my free time work represents my companies clients, and it sure as **** doesn't represent the bosses of those companies. |
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“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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1st July 2019, 03:22 PM | #54 |
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You do know you're not the only person in the thread, right? Did I quote or name you?
I have been skimming the posts that have been trying to make the argument about the wording in the thread title. Okay, so back to the thread discussion. You're letting Trump off the hook because he put up a wall between the worst shenanigans and himself? Pretty convenient isn't it? Is this something Trump would commonly do? Yes. Is there any reason to believe Trump would not approve of this if he knew his campaign staff were involved or had hired the company? No. Isn't this similar to the actions that went on in 2016 that Russian Bots and Trolls used to influence voters? Are we just going to say it's OK for Trump and the Trump campaign to engage in the same behavior? Apparently. |
1st July 2019, 03:58 PM | #55 |
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Better thread title: "Trump behind fake Biden website."
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2nd July 2019, 12:01 AM | #56 |
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2nd July 2019, 01:54 AM | #57 |
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2nd July 2019, 08:26 AM | #58 |
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Yes, you did quote me, not in every post though. Either way, I was responding to your statements to me, as well as others.
Strawman and hyperbole. This is the "worst shenanigans"? An obvious parody site about Joe Biden? Wow. This is crazy. I don't just believe things by default because I dislike someone. There's absolutely no evidence at all Trump had anything to do with this at all. If you want to continue to say he did, go right ahead, but it's not true. Another strawman. No, they aren't similar. One was carried out by a hostile country that spent literally millions in funds to create a misinformation campaign designed to target key voting locations. They didn't label themselves as parody or fake at all. In fact, they took great lengths to make sure that they didn't appear fake. i.e. blacktivist. The other is a guy chilling at his house that paid the $15 US to get a URL, and another couple of hours putting together a website that specifically tagged as parody. They aren't even close. You're comparing putt-putt to the Masters. |
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2nd July 2019, 08:49 AM | #59 |
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2nd July 2019, 08:59 AM | #60 |
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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2nd July 2019, 09:13 AM | #61 |
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2nd July 2019, 09:16 AM | #62 |
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My issue is with the scummy, anti-democratic tactics used by one of the two major parties in this country, not with thread headlines.
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2nd July 2019, 09:22 AM | #63 |
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As has been shown in this thread earlier, this isn't a one party deal. Both parties are guilty of doing this, or having people do it on their behalf. There's a name for it in the IT world, though it escapes me at the moment. Link hijacking, or URL mirroring or some such thing. It's used all of the time, by more than just politicians as well. This was actually pretty decent as the guy had the good taste to label the page as parody.
Quote:
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“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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2nd July 2019, 09:33 AM | #64 |
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I have no problem with condemning such tactics from either side.
I also know that such tactics have been used since the beginning of US democracy. But in the current internet-heavy world of information access, politicians must either pass laws to prevent such dirty tricks, or refrain from using them. Otherwise, they leave the policing to FB, Twitter and the like, which is inherently undemocratic. |
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2nd July 2019, 09:37 AM | #65 |
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While I can quibble with that on the basis of Free Speech, I would say it's pretty low on the dirty tricks level.
The appropriate thing to do, in my opinion, would be to give all individuals running for a federal office a .gov url that would allow them to always say that's the official site for them. States would have to do that on their own. Just my opinion. Seriously though, just like reading fake magazines (The Sun, National Enquirer, etc) I truly believes this is the responsibility of the reader, not the provider of the information. My sites are largely just funny, ********ty type of sites. I'd be pissed if I had to take them down. |
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2nd July 2019, 09:48 AM | #66 |
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2nd July 2019, 10:10 AM | #67 |
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Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
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2nd July 2019, 10:52 AM | #68 |
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2nd July 2019, 10:57 AM | #69 |
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2nd July 2019, 02:59 PM | #70 |
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But can we limit free speech with the justification of "saving people from themselves." I understand taking down information that's proven to be foreign funded, political, and a blatant lie. I am all for that.
This is none of those things. I firmly believe we can't limit speech or dumb down society to the lowest idiot. Rights first. We just have to suffer the idiots. |
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“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss |
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2nd July 2019, 03:13 PM | #71 |
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Before the last presidential election I thought we had far fewer idiots than I think we do now. When scammers, con-men, and lairs' rights to tell falsehoods infringes on the function of society, we are going to have to decide whether we want to worship rights above a functioning society. We also need to keep in mind that these types of lies and these idiots that fall for the lies have led to putting a man in power who has already been calling for curtailing the freedom of speech.
I don't know where the cut-off lies, though. |
2nd July 2019, 04:09 PM | #72 |
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2nd July 2019, 07:26 PM | #73 |
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Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable. |
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