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Tags Emily Thornberry , Keir Starmer , labour party , uk politics

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Old 20th December 2019, 08:11 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Emily Thornberry*throwing her hat in.

I do like her bluntness.
I like Emily Blunt better, for her thorniness.
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Old 20th December 2019, 08:25 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Ah that gosh-darned Labour Party Rule Book! I'd forgotten about Labour's idiosyncratic party rules. Oh well. I'd agree that, especially given the time frames in play, it's very unlikely to happen.
The Tory leadership election requires MPs to nominate themselves. This rules out members of The Lords unless they move very quickly indeed; implausibly quickly.

So no, it isn't the Labour party that's idiosyncratic.
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Old 21st December 2019, 02:09 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
The Tory leadership election requires MPs to nominate themselves. This rules out members of The Lords unless they move very quickly indeed; implausibly quickly.

So no, it isn't the Labour party that's idiosyncratic.


I was under the impression that the only requirement for someone to declare candidacy was the support of a certain number of MPs, and not necessarily that the candidate was an MP themselves.

As I said before, I absolutely agree that all the main parties in the present day would stand for nothing less than their leader being an MP. And if indeed in a Conservative election contest a member of the Lords were allowed to stand (with the support of a certain required number of MPs), then that candidate would certainly at the very least have to declare that he/she would immediately renounce their peerage if elected, and seek a (safe Conservative) seat in the Commons via a resignation and by-election.
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Old 21st December 2019, 03:32 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
I was under the impression that the only requirement for someone to declare candidacy was the support of a certain number of MPs, and not necessarily that the candidate was an MP themselves.
"The election takes place in two stages. In the first stage (shortlisting), Conservative MPs put their own names forward. In the 2019 leadership election candidates will need the support of eight MPs (proposer, seconder and six others) to stand. In the 2016 leadership election, candidates only needed the nominations of two other MPs."

Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
As I said before, I absolutely agree that all the main parties in the present day would stand for nothing less than their leader being an MP. And if indeed in a Conservative election contest a member of the Lords were allowed to stand (with the support of a certain required number of MPs), then that candidate would certainly at the very least have to declare that he/she would immediately renounce their peerage if elected, and seek a (safe Conservative) seat in the Commons via a resignation and by-election.
Last happened in 1963 (Alec Douglas-Home) but couldn't happen now. The shortlisting phase would be delayed, for a start, by the holding of the bye-election, and other candidates would be screaming blue murder. It's certainly not something that a candidate in the Lords could stage manage themselves.
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Old 21st December 2019, 05:54 PM   #45
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Like I already said somewhere - Emily Thornberry for the gig. She typifies everything wrong with politicians generally and Labour in particular - a gobby, self-serving careerist (a "North London Champagne Socialist", literally). Was a lawyer and barrister (like so many others of recent times), a "human rights" barrister to be precise, which is to law what 'gender studies' professors are to higher education.
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Old 22nd December 2019, 09:32 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Like I already said somewhere - Emily Thornberry for the gig. She typifies everything wrong with politicians generally and Labour in particular - a gobby, self-serving careerist (a "North London Champagne Socialist", literally). Was a lawyer and barrister (like so many others of recent times), a "human rights" barrister to be precise, which is to law what 'gender studies' professors are to higher education.
Run along now.
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Old 23rd December 2019, 07:45 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Run along now.
I gather Hyacinth is a woman after your own heart - unsurprising.
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Old 31st December 2019, 04:58 PM   #48
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Here's Corbyn's new year's eve message:

Quote:
2019 has been quite the year for our country and for our labour movement.

And now we are not just entering a new year but a new decade. And the period ahead could not be more important.

It will be crucial if we are to stop irreversible damage being caused by the climate crisis and the particular effects that has on people in the global south.

If we are to stop the pain plaguing our country: food banks, poverty and people struggling to get by. If we are to protect our precious NHS.

It won’t be easy. But we have built a movement. We are the resistance to Boris Johnson. We will be campaigning every day. We will be on the frontline, both in parliament and on the streets.

Protecting our public services. Protecting healthcare free at the point of use. Protecting our communities, in all their brilliant diversity. And standing up for internationalism, global solidarity and cooperation, and working with movements and parties seeking social justice and change all over the world.

And make no mistake, our movement is very strong. We are half a million people and growing. We are in every region and nation of our country.

We’re not backed by the press barons, by the billionaires or by the millionaires who work for the billionaires. We’re backed by you. We are by the many, for the many.

2020 and the years ahead will be tough. No one is saying otherwise. But we’re up for the fight. To protect what we hold dear. And to build to win and to transform.

The fight continues. There is no other choice.

So if you’re with us already, I can’t wait to meet the challenges ahead together. But if you’re not, join us. Join Labour today. Together we can bring about real change for our country, for the many and not just the few.
I'm sure that this goes down well with the true believers who only care about activism and protesting against something rather than actually being able to win a general election and run the government.
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Old 31st December 2019, 05:13 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Here's Corbyn's new year's eve message:



I'm sure that this goes down well with the true believers who only care about activism and protesting against something rather than actually being able to win a general election and run the government.
#postvalues
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Old 2nd January 2020, 01:40 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
I'm sure that this goes down well with the true believers who only care about activism and protesting against something rather than actually being able to win a general election and run the government.
I've said it before, in this thread and others, my experience of Labour Party membership for the better part of 25 years starting in the early 80s was there were, and likely still are, a sizeable number of members for whom electoral failure is a clear indication that the policies are right on the money.

Now that the policies are right, all Labour need to do is to fundamentally change basic human nature over the course of a few decades and the Labour-led workers' utopia will finally come into being.
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Old 2nd January 2020, 12:16 PM   #51
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they need to choose someone the media can't attach lazy labels to, red ed hurt miliband while corbyn encouraged kremlin, comrade and commie and got dry humped twice.
kremlin/komrade/kommie keir hardie starmer is probably a non starter, rebecca wrong bailey would catch on, communist clive lewis is a likely headline, im guessing it would be red jess phillips.
just leaves lisa nandy, red lisa sounds like a really bad eighties arnie film, communist and politburo doesn't really fit, nandos maybe?
need to leave slim pickens for the rags.
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Old 2nd January 2020, 01:20 PM   #52
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A poll of Labour party members makes Keir Starmer the hot favourite. Good.
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Old 5th January 2020, 02:05 PM   #53
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https://www.change.org/p/jeremy-corb...rbyn-as-leader

(Petition to keep Corbyn as leader)
(Wonder how many conservatives are signing?)
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Old 9th January 2020, 12:10 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
https://www.change.org/p/jeremy-corb...rbyn-as-leader

(Petition to keep Corbyn as leader)
(Wonder how many conservatives are signing?)


What part of " the guy led Labor to one of it's worst defeats ever against a very unpopoular Tory leader" don't these nimrods get?

And is does not really matter, in the end, why COrbyn is so unpopular, fact remains he IS unpopular, and needs to replaced for not other reason then that. Politics is a cold business.
I have no doubt the Tory press smeared Corbyn, but from all I have read the guy made it easy for them to do so with his blunders.

It's like keeping the captian of the ship in control after he has ran the ship into an iceberg....
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Old 9th January 2020, 12:16 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
#postvalues
So ideologic purity is more important then actually winning elections and getting something, even if it is not all you might want, done?
Politics is the art of the possible. I have never seen that disproven.
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Old 9th January 2020, 12:21 PM   #56
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A couple of times I've heard Labour people say "but we won the argument". Which is like pissing yourself wearing dark trousers. You might get a warm feeling but not many people notice.
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Old 9th January 2020, 04:48 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
A couple of times I've heard Labour people say "but we won the argument". Which is like pissing yourself wearing dark trousers. You might get a warm feeling but not many people notice.
THIS.THIS.THIS.

Problem with hard core ideologues and blind partisans is they just cannot admit that one reason they lost is because their side made a lot of mistakes.
I still love the whole "We should keep Corbyn as leader because the Tory Press said a lot of nasty things about him" argument. Damaged goods are damaged goods no matter how they got demaged and you get rid of them.
And from the comments on the keep Corbyn petition page you have a personality cult thing going.
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Old 9th January 2020, 05:09 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Was it Healey who talked about people "who perfer the ideological purity of opposition to the hard decisions of power"?

I've been in a few Labour discussions where all the loudest Corynistas apparently thought that Labour centrists (i.e. anyone not of their stamp) was the first enemy to be removed. Good call guys, alienate the people you have most common ground with.
I think another Corbynista would be a bad idea as they seem totally tone deaf. And the first layoff should have been Seamus.
There's been a spike in Labour party membership as a lot of people for various reasons want a say in selecting the next leader.
You have this same thing going on in the US with the more exreme wing of the Democratic Party;they really seem to want to purge anybody not Progressive enough for them from the party.
"We Don't Need No Stinking Centrist/Moderates" seems to be their battle cry.
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Old 14th January 2020, 04:21 AM   #59
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Andrew Adonis thinks the cause of so many bad leaders, is the way they are elected:
Quote:
And I think I have worked it out: it was the fateful decision taken by both Labour (in 1983) and the Tories (in 1997) to move from parliamentary democracy to activist democracy in choosing their leaders.

This turned out to be a fundamental constitutional change, and a bad one. The rise of weak leadership is the mirror image of the decline of parliament.

The critical turning points were 2001 for the Tories and 2010 for Labour, when for the first time party activists overruled their own MPs and imposed leaders who were not the choice of parliamentarians.

If MPs alone had chosen Tory leaders since Major, the succession would probably have gone to Ken Clarke, who might well have won the 2005 election. Duncan Smith, Howard and May would be political footnotes, while Johnson would be a joke on Have I Got News For You.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...tics-1-6166229

This makes sense, as the likes of Corbyn attract cult status among the members, but not much else.

Maybe its time to redesign the system.
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Old 14th January 2020, 04:33 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
THIS.THIS.THIS.

Problem with hard core ideologues and blind partisans is they just cannot admit that one reason they lost is because their side made a lot of mistakes.
I still love the whole "We should keep Corbyn as leader because the Tory Press said a lot of nasty things about him" argument. Damaged goods are damaged goods no matter how they got damaged and you get rid of them.
And from the comments on the keep Corbyn petition page you have a personality cult thing going.
They seem to romanticise losing, which I cannot get on board with. I saw this when I saw Mark Thomas (UK political comedian), and saw it in some of my ideologically inclined friends etc.
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Old 14th January 2020, 04:50 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
They seem to romanticise losing, which I cannot get on board with. I saw this when I saw Mark Thomas (UK political comedian), and saw it in some of my ideologically inclined friends etc.
That is just human behaviour, doesn't matter if it is the Labour, Tory or leader of my gang, we all do this.

No "side" has a monopoly on this.
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Old 14th January 2020, 09:48 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
They seem to romanticise losing, which I cannot get on board with. I saw this when I saw Mark Thomas (UK political comedian), and saw it in some of my ideologically inclined friends etc.
I don’t think it is necessarily romanticizing losing so much as when in adversity, people retreat into their comfort zone.

Labour did it with Corbyn

The torrid had done it with IDS

(Spellcheck! Should be tories not torrid)
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Old 14th January 2020, 10:58 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
What part of " the guy led Labor to one of it's worst defeats ever against a very unpopoular Tory leader" don't these nimrods get?

And is does not really matter, in the end, why COrbyn is so unpopular, fact remains he IS unpopular, and needs to replaced for not other reason then that. Politics is a cold business.
I have no doubt the Tory press smeared Corbyn, but from all I have read the guy made it easy for them to do so with his blunders.

It's like keeping the captian of the ship in control after he has ran the ship into an iceberg....
Yup, and remember Corbyn only looked good in 2017 relative to Theresa Strong-n-stable May, one of the most hapless and least charismatic leaders of any major party. He still managed to get fewer votes than her, but after a couple of years, his perceived performance had fallen further.
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Old 14th January 2020, 11:10 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Was it Healey who talked about people "who perfer the ideological purity of opposition to the hard decisions of power"?

I've been in a few Labour discussions where all the loudest Corynistas apparently thought that Labour centrists (i.e. anyone not of their stamp) was the first enemy to be removed. Good call guys, alienate the people you have most common ground with.
I think another Corbynista would be a bad idea as they seem totally tone deaf. And the first layoff should have been Seamus.
There's been a spike in Labour party membership as a lot of people for various reasons want a say in selecting the next leader.
Yup - just because Corbyn lost to an incompetent buffoon, it's no reason to go for another one. Johnson's work ethic and attention to detail is likely to land him in hot water and pretending that Brexit is a good idea is something that will age really badly. Far better to be able to say that you opposed and tried to mitigate it rather than end up tainted with the inevitable disaster.


I have often thought that Corbyn likes the luxury of ineffectually attacking something really bad rather than actually trying to fix it.

Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Yvette Cooper or Kier Starmer sound OK.

Only go with Thornberry if you have a burning desire to guarantee Boris wins the next election.

Yup
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Old 15th January 2020, 03:02 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by wobs View Post
Andrew Adonis thinks the cause of so many bad leaders, is the way they are elected:

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top...tics-1-6166229

This makes sense, as the likes of Corbyn attract cult status among the members, but not much else.

Maybe its time to redesign the system.
At times, Indirect Democracy works better then Direct Democracy.
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