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Old 16th February 2018, 04:31 PM   #81
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Since you are obviously an authority per endless swaggering confidence, how do you know McVeigh wasn't a throwaway undercover operative tasked with infiltrating and setting up radicals in a legit sting op which rogue (bad) higher ups then stepped in (as planned) and turned it, making it 'hot'?

Please be so kind as to reassure us by explaining how you know this could not possibly be the case.
Yet another logical fallacy - this one is switching the burden of proof. Nobody has to disprove your speculations. You have to prove them.

Unless, of course, speculation is sufficient for you, and no proof is necessary. It appears that is the case.

Hank

EDIT: I see SmartCooky already pointed out the logical fallacy here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1&postcount=69
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 16th February 2018 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:44 PM   #82
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I conduct seminars, rehabilitating recovering pseudo-skeptics. Developing abilities to entertain hypothetical scenarios is a separate module in the advanced program. On day one they are all giggly and nervous, as they've never even knew it could be done. Some catch on.
Hlarious. When is your next series of seminars? How much to attend? How frequently are they held? Where are they held?

At what point do you cover EVIDENCE in your seminars?

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 16th February 2018 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:46 PM   #83
Bubba
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Yeah, yeah.

Seems generally that a speculation or hypothetical scenario is always jumped on as an assertion. I did, after all, include 'While perhaps not the case in OKC and Dallas" in post 65.

I get the impression entertaining certain plausible scenarios blows fuses.

Last edited by Bubba; 16th February 2018 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:50 PM   #84
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Quote:
Hank said

Unless, of course, speculation is sufficient for you, and no proof is necessary. It appears that is the case
.

Putting all reasonable possibilities on the table seems healthy and wise to me.


Quote:
Hlarious. When is your next series of seminars? How much to attend?

I thought so too. Thanks. Discount for you.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:52 PM   #85
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Yeah, yeah.

Seems generally that a speculation or hypothetical scenario is jumped on as an assertion. I did, after all, include 'While perhaps not the case in OKC and Dallas" in post 65.

I get the impression entertaining certain plausible scenarios blows fuses.
Still begging the question. You need to present the evidence. Asking for your evidence is not 'blowing a fuse'.

We've got all the speculation we need, thanks. Looking for some of the good stuff.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 16th February 2018, 04:54 PM   #86
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Putting all reasonable possibilities on the table seems healthy and wise to me.
Still begging the question. You still need to present the evidence.


Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I thought so too. Thanks. Discount for you.
You need to provide the other info if you expect me to sign up.

When are these seminars? Where? How frequent? And how much?

If speculation [AKA "hypothetical scenarios"] is in the advanced seminar, what do you cover in the initial ones? Can you provide a syllabus?

At what point do you cover EVIDENCE in your seminars?

What's your C.V.?

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 16th February 2018 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:13 PM   #87
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Point being it is plausible for us to be deceived by those with agenda in power/position to run circles around us, in many ways. Official versions of events are often over rated, IMO.

What was the name of that CIA program where they used all kinds of disinfo, violence, and other deceptions to overthrow various governments? Thats the kind of stuff I'm talkin about. Those tactics could be deceiving us in any number of events, wars etc you name it. Deception is rampant in our political scene. Seems to me it is nearly the name of the game these days. Thats why I sometime tend to scoff at certain 'official' versions of reality.

My position is like 'How do we know we aren't being bamboozled again?'

There was a site listing at least half a dozen countries where operation phoenix type covert actions overthrew govts and or controlled elections.

Thinking it cannot happen here seems naive to me.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:16 PM   #88
Bubba
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
You need to provide the other info if you expect me to sign up.

When are these seminars? Where? How frequent? And how much?

If speculation [AKA "hypothetical scenarios"] is in the advanced seminar, what do you cover in the initial ones? Can you provide a syllabus?

At what point do you cover EVIDENCE in your seminars?

What's your C.V.?

Hank


Hilarious.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:27 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Still begging the question. You need to present the evidence. Asking for your evidence is not 'blowing a fuse'.

We've got all the speculation we need, thanks. Looking for some of the good stuff.

Hank
Aren't we all? My point is that if truth is concealed well enough by the best money can buy, how can we know **** from Shinola ? Answer: We can't.

My speculation/hypotheticals are merely to point that out. Seems that not many will admit they cannot be certain their perception is not a product of professional deception. "Believers". They'd rather waste breath insisting a speculation is a claim.

Speaking of Shinola, I once saw a yacht named Shinola. I called over and said "Hey, the name of your boat..." She interrupted me, saying "Yeah, it means what you are thinking it means."

IMO it says a lot about a forum when it needs to censor the great old phrase "...**** from Shinola...".

Uptight much?

Last edited by Bubba; 16th February 2018 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:34 PM   #90
Bubba
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Still begging the question. You need to present the evidence. Asking for your evidence is not 'blowing a fuse'.

Hank

Claims require evidence. Gauging whether or not a speculation is plausible does not. You simply put on your thinking cap and conclude either "Nope. No way."...or...."Yeah, certain parties could pull that off."

I cannot believe that needed explaining.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:56 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Aren't we all? My point is that if truth is concealed well enough by the best money can buy, how can we know **** from Shinola ? Answer: We can't.
Still begging the question.


Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
My speculation/hypotheticals are merely to point that out.
That all you have is speculation? Seems that's our job. You claim things are true that are admittedly only speculation by your own sources (bombing report, for one)
Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
The Oklahoma Bombing Investigation Committee (OKBIC) speculates that what Terry saw may have coincided with the possible evidence of another unreported bombing device uncovered by their "science people."

... This is part of the CT problem. A speculation by one CT becomes a fact to the next.


Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Seems that not many will admit they cannot be certain their perception is not a product of professional eception. "Believers". They'd rather waste breath insisting a speculation is a claim.
Sorry, when you bring up the speculation in one post, and ask it be disproven in the next, it's a claim. And a shifting of the burden of proof.



Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Speaking of Shinola, I once saw a yacht named Shinola. I called over and said "Hey, the name of your boat..." She interrupted me, saying "Yeah, it means what you are thinking it means."
It's a shoe polish. You're confusing it with the other stuff.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinola_(shoe_polish)



Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
IMO it says a lot about a forum when it needs to censor the great old phrase "...**** from Shinola...". Uptight much?
I came of age in the 1960's. My language skills are well beyond that.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 16th February 2018 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:56 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Point being it is plausible for us to be deceived by those with agenda in power/position to run circles around us, in many ways. Official versions of events are often over rated, IMO.
If you think so... prove it. Show us your evidence.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
What was the name of that CIA program where they used all kinds of disinfo, violence, and other deceptions to overthrow various governments? Thats the kind of stuff I'm talkin about. Those tactics could be deceiving us in any number of events, wars etc you name it. Deception is rampant in our political scene. Seems to me it is nearly the name of the game these days. Thats why I sometime tend to scoff at certain 'official' versions of reality.
Operation Mockingbird?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

If you think that that the OKC bombing was part of Operation Mockingbird... prove it. Show us your evidence.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
My position is like 'How do we know we aren't being bamboozled again?'
If you think so... prove it. Show us your evidence.

Quote:
There was a site listing at least half a dozen countries where operation phoenix type covert actions overthrew govts and or controlled elections.
Operation Phoenix was a South African operation to counter SWAPO guerillas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operat..._(South_Africa)

I thought that perhaps you may have been thinking of the Phoenix Program, but that was only to do with the Vietnam War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Program

Not sure what you are going on about here. Do you just mean regime change. There are many CIA operations that relate to regme change

Operation Blue Bat (Lebanon)
Operation PBSuccess (Guatemala)
Operation Mongoose (Cuba) - led to the Bay of Pigs debacle
Operation Cyclone (Afghanistan)
Operation Urgent Fury (Granada)
Operation Just Cause (Panama)
Operation Desert Storm (Kuwait) - First Gulf War 1991

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Thinking it cannot happen here seems naive to me.
No-one thinks is can't happen, but you claim it HAS happened in this case, so you need to show evidence that it has. Otherwise, everything you have been posting here is meaningless, unconfirmed speculation; its just mental wanking.
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Old 16th February 2018, 05:58 PM   #93
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I conduct seminars, rehabilitating recovering pseudo-skeptics. Developing abilities to entertain hypothetical scenarios is a separate module in the advanced program. On day one they are all giggly and nervous, as they've never even knew it could be done. Some catch on.
Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Hlarious. When is your next series of seminars? How much to attend? How frequently are they held? Where are they held? At what point do you cover EVIDENCE in your seminars?
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I thought so too. Thanks. Discount for you.
Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
You need to provide the other info if you expect me to sign up.

When are these seminars? Where? How frequent? And how much?

If speculation [AKA "hypothetical scenarios"] is in the advanced seminar, what do you cover in the initial ones? Can you provide a syllabus?

At what point do you cover EVIDENCE in your seminars?

What's your C.V.?
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Hilarious.
#AsExpected. Another claim by you supported by no evidence whatsoever. So an admission your offer of a discount on the course was spurious?

An admission there is no such seminar?

Either that, or you're the world's worst businessman.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 16th February 2018 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 16th February 2018, 06:08 PM   #94
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Claims require evidence. Gauging whether or not a speculation is plausible does not. You simply put on your thinking cap and conclude either "Nope. No way."...or...."Yeah, certain parties could pull that off."

I cannot believe that needed explaining.
Still begging the question.

Show us the evidence for plausible.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto
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Old 16th February 2018, 07:00 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Of course they told you that, they are the officials. Just ask Elagabalus.

snipped

.
I'm basing my observation on something other than what someone "told" me.

ATF arson and explosives teams run training seminars for local law enforcement officers continuing professional training.

Part of the curriculum is examination and identification of different types of inert exord and various military and improvised explosive devices. In some classes, detonation of live devices, both military and improvised, are conducted to demonstrate typical types of physical evidence resulting from the detonation and to demonstrate the effectiveness of different types of devices.

It is entirely reasonable to believe that various types of inert devices and live exord may have been in the MFB.

And just a note - your other post that references someone's observation about ANFO fulfills my prediction in my first post in this thread.

The less someone knows about exord first hand, the more they know about how it performs...

Fun fact. I can prove without doubt where I was on April 19, 1995

I have nothing to do with whitepower mental defectives and certainly wouldn't commit an atrocity, but when my attorney heard the news he called me because I'm the only person he knows that has expertise with explosives and explosive devices. I told him to write up the call in his daily notes and bill me - you never know what might happen and an alibi is an alibi. It's been a running joke for us ever since.
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Old 16th February 2018, 07:05 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Congratulations, you are now a conspiracy theorist. Welcome to the club
Not even close.

I recognize human fallibility and the documented human behavior of braggadocio.

CTists are incapable of recognizing or acknowledging either trait.
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Old 16th February 2018, 07:24 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Point being it is plausible for us to be deceived by those with agenda in power/position to run circles around us, in many ways. Official versions of events are often over rated, IMO.

What was the name of that CIA program where they used all kinds of disinfo, violence, and other deceptions to overthrow various governments? Thats the kind of stuff I'm talkin about. Those tactics could be deceiving us in any number of events, wars etc you name it. Deception is rampant in our political scene. Seems to me it is nearly the name of the game these days. Thats why I sometime tend to scoff at certain 'official' versions of reality.

My position is like 'How do we know we aren't being bamboozled again?'

There was a site listing at least half a dozen countries where operation phoenix type covert actions overthrew govts and or controlled elections.

Thinking it cannot happen here seems naive to me.
What changed after the OKC Bombing?

Which rights did we lose?
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:06 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
What changed after the OKC Bombing?

Which rights did we lose?
Well, they can't claim it's an illegitimate government in power since OKC... they already used that one after the JFK assassination.

So I'm going with "a lot changed but the sheeple like you are too distracted to even notice".

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:19 PM   #99
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Quote:
Hank said:
It's a shoe polish. You're confusing it with the other stuff.
I know its shoe polish. My dad used it.

The old saying is: "So and so is dumb he doesn't know **** from Shinola"

Shinola resembles ****, hence the old saw is a joke of sorts, explaining the yacht's name 'Shinola' being the good stuff ie the truth we are interested in promoting.

Perhaps you were saying that, in a roundabout manner.

Edited by zooterkin:  Edited for rule 10. Do not try to evade the autocensor.

Last edited by zooterkin; 18th February 2018 at 10:50 AM. Reason: Rule 10
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Old 16th February 2018, 09:24 PM   #100
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I know its shoe polish. My dad used it.

The old saying is: "So and so is dumb he doesn't know sh*t from Shinola"

Shinola resembles sh*t, hence the old saw is a joke of sorts, explaining the yacht's name. Shinola being the good stuff ie the truth we are interested in promoting.

Perhaps you were saying that, in a roundabout manner.
You ignored all my other points. Why was that?

Here's the link again:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...1&postcount=91

Do try to address the ones pertinent to this thread (hint: Shinola is not).

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 16th February 2018 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 16th February 2018, 10:33 PM   #101
Axxman300
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Point being it is plausible for us to be deceived by those with agenda in power/position to run circles around us, in many ways. Official versions of events are often over rated, IMO.
And?

In the case of OKC, what was the deception?

Quote:
What was the name of that CIA program where they used all kinds of disinfo, violence, and other deceptions to overthrow various governments? Thats the kind of stuff I'm talkin about.
In the 1950's, 60's, 70's, ending in the 80's. They have all been cataloged and revealed by the CIA directly. They've released a ton on classified files on their power play in Iran which installed the Shah. They did that 2 weeks ago.

I'm guessing you haven't read the files yet.

Quote:
Those tactics could be deceiving us in any number of events, wars etc you name it.
Any yet with Wikileaks CTists have bubkis, no smoking guns of any kind.



Quote:
Deception is rampant in our political scene.
When was that never true?

Quote:
Seems to me it is nearly the name of the game these days. Thats why I sometime tend to scoff at certain 'official' versions of reality.
With you it is clearly a reflex.

What changed after the OKC Bombing?


Quote:
There was a site listing at least half a dozen countries where operation phoenix type covert actions overthrew govts and or controlled elections.
That's not what Phoenix was about. Phoenix targeted key people in the VC infrastructure (tax collectors, governors, double agents, etc). Honestly, it would be nice had we had a Phoenix Program in Afghanistan, and Iraq...but we didn't...

Quote:
Thinking it cannot happen here seems naive to me.
You mean like voter suppression disguised as voter ID laws?

You mean like the Russian manipulation of social media?

You mean like all the other stuff that isn't a secret for long? That stuff.

Man, nothing gets by you.
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Old 18th February 2018, 12:22 PM   #102
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Correction to my post #95

My prediction about the inability of ANFO to cause the level of damage to the building was in the other OKC bombing thread, link below:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...23&postcount=8

Another post of mine in that thread WRT the composition of the device:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6&postcount=13
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Old 18th February 2018, 04:08 PM   #103
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Okay so Richard Wayne Snell is pretty much a confirmed additional conspirator, right?
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Old 18th February 2018, 04:46 PM   #104
Wolrab
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay so Richard Wayne Snell is pretty much a confirmed additional conspirator, right?
Yup. Everyone* is 110% in complete agreement with that.



*Everyone being you and maybe Bubba.
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Old 18th February 2018, 04:47 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay so Richard Wayne Snell is pretty much a confirmed additional conspirator, right?
Let's grant for the sake of argument that is true.

What changes?

Where does that lead?

What's the next step?

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 18th February 2018, 05:02 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay so Richard Wayne Snell is pretty much a confirmed additional conspirator, right?
And while you're explaining things, remember to answer these questions that you've avoided pretty studiously for four days now:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6&postcount=35

Or was smartcooky right when he said a few posts later that you don't do questions?

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 18th February 2018, 06:03 PM   #107
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That is why you start with the answers and work your way back.
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Old 18th February 2018, 06:05 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
What changed after the OKC Bombing?

Which rights did we lose?
Looking back the most prominent thing I can think of from the bombings is that radio host Art Bell stopped having most of his show devoted to right wing nuttery and made it mostly all about woo woo stuff like aliens. The latter had been a small part of the show before the bombings, and the criticism of hate radio by other media may have stung him.
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Old 18th February 2018, 09:26 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay so Richard Wayne Snell is pretty much a confirmed additional conspirator, right?
I was unaware that listening to gossip counts as being party to a conspiracy.
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Old 18th February 2018, 10:44 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Looking back the most prominent thing I can think of from the bombings is that radio host Art Bell stopped having most of his show devoted to right wing nuttery and made it mostly all about woo woo stuff like aliens. The latter had been a small part of the show before the bombings, and the criticism of hate radio by other media may have stung him.
Yup.

He also shot down 9-11 nutjobs too. You know things are bad when a guy who believes in little green men ridicules your CT.
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Old 18th February 2018, 10:46 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay so Richard Wayne Snell is pretty much a confirmed additional conspirator, right?
In what way?

He had no contact with McVeigh or the Viper Militia.
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Old 19th February 2018, 01:45 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Point being it is plausible for us to be deceived by those with agenda in power/position to run circles around us, in many ways. Official versions of events are often over rated, IMO.

What was the name of that CIA program where they used all kinds of disinfo, violence, and other deceptions to overthrow various governments? Thats the kind of stuff I'm talkin about. Those tactics could be deceiving us in any number of events, wars etc you name it. Deception is rampant in our political scene. Seems to me it is nearly the name of the game these days. Thats why I sometime tend to scoff at certain 'official' versions of reality.

My position is like 'How do we know we aren't being bamboozled again?'

There was a site listing at least half a dozen countries where operation phoenix type covert actions overthrew govts and or controlled elections.

Thinking it cannot happen here seems naive to me.
How do you know about these CIA operations, Bubba?

Was it from a crack team of CT "speculators" uncovering these things?
Or was it from documents released from the CIA?

I submit that it is the latter- feel free to provide other sources for this information that do not rely on CIA documents.

If this is indeed the case, then why is it that you accept this official story, and use it as evidence for your stated distrust of official stories?
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Old 19th February 2018, 03:00 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Okay so Richard Wayne Snell is pretty much a confirmed additional conspirator, right?
When nobody but Bubba agrees with you, why do you pretend everybody agrees with you?

Dave
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:31 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
And while you're explaining things, remember to answer these questions that you've avoided pretty studiously for four days now:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...6&postcount=35

Or was smartcooky right when he said a few posts later that you don't do questions?

Hank
I already posted the answer to your questions, which itself was already found in the page I linked at the very beginning of the thread.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-fe...-okla-bombing/

"I think their only real concern back then was Elohim City," said Kerry Noble, the witness questioned by the FBI on March 28, 1995, just three weeks before McVeigh detonated a truck bomb outside the building and killed more than 160 people.

Noble told AP his FBI questioners appeared particularly concerned about what Elohim City members might do on April 19 because one of their heroes, Wayne Snell, was being executed that day, and another, James Ellison, was returning to Oklahoma after ending parole in Florida.

FBI officials confirmed Noble's account.

Snell, Ellison and Noble had plotted to attack the Murrah building in 1983 with plastic explosives and rocket launchers, according to Noble and FBI officials. The plan never reached fruition, and the group was arrested in 1985 after a siege with law enforcers in Arkansas.
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:32 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
When nobody but Bubba agrees with you, why do you pretend everybody agrees with you?

Dave
Proof is based on evidence, not consensus.
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:35 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Proof is based on evidence, not consensus.
Then why do you pretend there's a consensus where none exists?

Dave
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:40 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
In what way?

He had no contact with McVeigh or the Viper Militia.
What? We KNOW that McVeigh had friends in Elohim City (the compound of survivalist white separatists co-founded by Richard Wayne Snell) such as Andreas Strassmeir and Stephen Colbern (who shared a P.O. Box with McVeigh). The fact that McVeigh knew people in Elohim City is not a matter of contention.

Which part of this case of foreknowledge isn't working for you? Do you actually think it could've been a coincidence that, of all bombings Snell could have predicted would certainly occur, it happened to be a federal building on Oklahoma like Snell plotted to attack in 1983? According to a former close associate, THE SAME Alfred P. Murrah Building?
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:43 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Let's grant for the sake of argument that is true.

What changes?

Where does that lead?

What's the next step?

Hank
It means the FBI stopped perusing the right-wing extremist angle. Possibly because it raises more questions than answers and it would mean there were conspirators they can never catch.
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Old 19th February 2018, 10:47 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
What? We KNOW that McVeigh had friends in Elohim City (the compound of survivalist white separatists co-founded by Richard Wayne Snell) such as Andreas Strassmeir and Stephen Colbern (who shared a P.O. Box with McVeigh). The fact that McVeigh knew people in Elohim City is not a matter of contention.

Which part of this case of foreknowledge isn't working for you? Do you actually think it could've been a coincidence that, of all bombings Snell could have predicted would certainly occur, it happened to be a federal building on Oklahoma like Snell plotted to attack in 1983? According to a former close associate, THE SAME Alfred P. Murrah Building?
You're concentrating on the wrong guy. Snell was just a patsy. Who's the person who set the execution date for Snell?
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Old 19th February 2018, 11:30 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
You're concentrating on the wrong guy. Snell was just a patsy. Who's the person who set the execution date for Snell?
Snell blamed Arkansas governor Guy Tucker for allowing the execution to proceed on April 19th, a significant day for his people.
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