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Old 6th December 2018, 05:05 AM   #41
Porpoise of Life
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Is that why people believe that you can be turned gay, or that 'the gays' are recruiting innocent youths? Because they've got a gay side they're trying to suppress?
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Old 6th December 2018, 05:05 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Why does religion get a free pass on bigotry?
Same reason they get a free pass on taxation.
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Old 6th December 2018, 05:23 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Is that why people believe that you can be turned gay, or that 'the gays' are recruiting innocent youths? Because they've got a gay side they're trying to suppress?
It could be that, I suppose, or just plain ignorance....
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:08 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
There's this study:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl...t-accepting-it

Quote:

A series of studies recently published in the prestigious Journal of Personality and Social Psychology found higher levels of homophobia in individuals with unacknowledged attractions to the same sex, particularly when they grew up with authoritarian parents who also held homophobic attitudes. In the university press release, Netta Weinstein, the study's lead author said, "Individuals who identify as straight but in psychological tests show a strong attraction to the same sex may be threatened by gays and lesbians because homosexuals remind them of similar tendencies within themselves." In the same release, study co-author Richard Ryan added, "In many cases these are people who are at war with themselves and they are turning this internal conflict outward."
Pretty specific test group that doesn't represent the population. Some results are made by implication within the study. Just two issues that make me, largely, discount it.
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:09 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Says the Pope. It is "worrying" and "there is no place for this kind of affection".

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...cid=spartandhp


Why does Catholicismreligion get a free pass on bigotry?
Fixed it for you.

Because when it comes to Islam, it usually gets a free pass. And whoever dares to question Islam, is a racist, bigot, homophobe etc.
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:17 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Fixed it for you.

Because when it comes to Islam, it usually gets a free pass. And whoever dares to question Islam, is a racist, bigot, homophobe etc.
There's plenty of people who are willing to criticize Islam, and plenty of Catholics and sympathizers who are willing to call you a bigot for criticizing the pope.
Just depends on who you're talking to.
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:21 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Fixed it for you.

Because when it comes to Islam, it usually gets a free pass. And whoever dares to question Islam, is a racist, bigot, homophobe etc.
That's just the manifestation of Liberalism/Progressivsm's "Victim Ranking Fetish."
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:23 AM   #48
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There's often a big divide between the common laity and the clergy in the American catholic community.

The church has pretty much conceded that the average member is not going to strictly follow the rules. Birth control, pre-marital cohabitation and sex, gay marriage, the list goes on. It makes for some awkward moments, but allows the church to keep some presence in the USA.

I imagine this lack of orthodoxy goes a long way of keeping down complaints about some of the church's more regressive ideas. American Catholics just ignore it and go about their lives.
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:27 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
There's often a big divide between the common laity and the clergy in the American catholic community.
Okay but let's unpack that.

Let's say I'm 100%, across the board not against left handed people. I, on a personal level, completely okay with them in every way. But every... Thursday I go to a special building and gather with other people while somebody stands up in front of us and rants and raves about how left handers are evil.

Can we all agree that's at least... weird? Off?
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:31 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay but let's unpack that.

Let's say I'm 100%, across the board not against left handed people. I, on a personal level, completely okay with them in every way. But every... Thursday I go to a special building and gather with other people while somebody stands up in front of us and rants and raves about how left handers are evil.

Can we all agree that's at least... weird? Off?
Sure. People rationalized child rape, they can rationalize a bit of homophobia.

In practical terms, I think local priests know their audience and don't prioritize unpopular teachings. A priest might see a perfectly healthy middle aged married couple with two kids, but he doesn't go on a harangue on the evils of contraceptives. They got the skillz to pay the billz, and the people that drop money in the basket don't want to hear that crap. Let the Bishops or the Vatican split philosophical hairs, Father Tom is just trying to keep the lights on and his church alive.

The people I know that are regular catholics profess a great deal of loyalty to their local church (and favorite priests), but not much respect to the greater organization. It's a bit of "that stuff doesn't happen here" mentality.

Catholic church attendance is continuing its long downslide. It's especially bad for younger people. Old habits die hard I suppose.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/232226/...ard-slide.aspx
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Old 6th December 2018, 12:33 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Is that why people believe that you can be turned gay, or that 'the gays' are recruiting innocent youths? Because they've got a gay side they're trying to suppress?

Not necessarily. They may be ordinary, 100 % heterosexuals who are merely ignorant. But it is pretty obvious that there are also a number of outright homosexuals who hate homosexuality so much more because they are trying to fight it in both themselves and others: Self-loathing among gay people is nothing new. We’re overwhelmed by it. (The Guardian, Feb. 8, 2018)
See also the German documentary: Men, Heroes and Gay Nazis (Wikipedia).
Some of them probably come up with the idea that since Catholic priests aren't supposed to live out their sexual urges, homo or hetero, becoming a priest is the best solution for what they see as a shameful problem that they need to repress.

ETA: Roy Cohn: Homosexuality and the lavender scare (Wikipedia)
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:46 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay but let's unpack that.

Let's say I'm 100%, across the board not against left handed people. I, on a personal level, completely okay with them in every way. But every... Thursday I go to a special building and gather with other people while somebody stands up in front of us and rants and raves about how left handers are evil.

Can we all agree that's at least... weird? Off?
It's both more and less weird than you think, with Catholicism. Remember that for Catholics, Mass isn't just a church service, it's where a miracle occurs and they participate in a sacrament of literally consuming the body of the god. It's entirely possible to believe in the ability of the clergy to perform that miracle via the proper ritual without believing the clergy's opinions on anything actually matter. The term "cafeteria Catholic" can have multiple levels of meaning, some rather more literal than others.
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:00 PM   #53
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Let's not forget, only MALE homosexuality is mentioned in the bible. Lesbians are HAWT!
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:02 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Fixed it for you.

Because when it comes to Islam, it usually gets a free pass. And whoever dares to question Islam, is a racist, bigot, homophobe etc.
Wassamatta Ron Tomkins? Tore your white sheet?








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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:03 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay but let's unpack that.

Let's say I'm 100%, across the board not against left handed people. I, on a personal level, completely okay with them in every way. But every... Thursday I go to a special building and gather with other people while somebody stands up in front of us and rants and raves about how left handers are evil.

Can we all agree that's at least... weird? Off?
Yeah, it is. Friday is hate-a-left-hander day, not Thursday!

Anyway, I think you have the right to believe it and associate with those kinds of people, but I don't think you should be allowed to make hiring decisions based on those beliefs.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

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Old 6th December 2018, 07:45 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay but let's unpack that.

Let's say I'm 100%, across the board not against left handed people. I, on a personal level, completely okay with them in every way. But every... Thursday I go to a special building and gather with other people while somebody stands up in front of us and rants and raves about how left handers are evil.

Can we all agree that's at least... weird? Off?
When was the last time you were in a Church? It's not a foaming-at-the-mouth freakshow, you know. Pretty easy, positive vibe in a local parish.
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:51 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
When was the last time you were in a Church? It's not a foaming-at-the-mouth freakshow, you know. Pretty easy, positive vibe in a local parish.
The last few times I have been in churches have been for weddings and funerals in Ireland. And indeed, one of those weddings did involve a priest frothing and foaming about living in sin and what a disgrace it was. I thought better than to yell out, "Well, stop doing it then!" because he didn't strike me as someone who would see the funny side. Instead, at the reception he sat sullenly at the end of the table, growing increasingly angry at the drunken flirting and bonhomie.
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:58 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I suspect what happened in Ireland is a living nightmare for the senior church clergy, a country in which the RCC held sway over the state of Ireland and people for hundreds of years and it all went up in smoke within a single generation.
What a shame - and I hope it is forgotten in a reasonably short time for the evil it has done there and in so many other times and places!!!
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Old 7th December 2018, 08:27 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
What a shame - and I hope it is forgotten in a reasonably short time for the evil it has done there and in so many other times and places!!!
With all due respect, I hope it's never forgotten. I think that's one of the worst causes of our having to fight the same battles over and over, and of reactionaries and sanctimonious sectarians to mess up our lives over and over. Once upon a time the Baptists were the ones who established a secular state, because they themselves were the victims of theocracy. Once upon a time we troublemakers and godless hippies droned school prayers, and god did not visit our segregated classrooms. Once upon a time the Mormons sued for their secular rights. Once upon a time we got regulations because without them the meat poisoned us and our employeers gave us cancer and the rivers were flowing with turds, but now, when the regulations work, all that is forgotten. I hope such things are relegated to the bad old days, that we move on, grow up, replace the old with the new, but never forget why.
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Old 9th December 2018, 12:34 PM   #60
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Another Catholic Priest child molester found. In the Phillipines this time.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-...abuse/10593976


The President weighs in:

Quote:
Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has repeatedly lashed out at the dominant Catholic Church and its priests over such abuses, saying he himself, along with other students, were sexually molested by an American priest in their high school days.
In separate speeches on Wednesday (local time), the volatile leader claimed almost 90 per cent of Catholic priests were homosexual and also admonished Catholics.

The habit of making ridiculous claims that destroy their own credibility seems to be becoming the norm among Presidents these days. Apart from the 90% of priests being homosexual the conflating of homosexuality and paedophilia once again raises its head.
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Old 9th December 2018, 02:13 PM   #61
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Sounds like Duterte will invite all the priests in the Philippines for a private helicopter ride.
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Old 13th December 2018, 03:25 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Same reason they get a free pass on taxation.
What is that reason?
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Old 13th December 2018, 03:42 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
There's this study:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl...t-accepting-it

Quote:

A series of studies recently published in the prestigious Journal of Personality and Social Psychology found higher levels of homophobia in individuals with unacknowledged attractions to the same sex, particularly when they grew up with authoritarian parents who also held homophobic attitudes. In the university press release, Netta Weinstein, the study's lead author said, "Individuals who identify as straight but in psychological tests show a strong attraction to the same sex may be threatened by gays and lesbians because homosexuals remind them of similar tendencies within themselves." In the same release, study co-author Richard Ryan added, "In many cases these are people who are at war with themselves and they are turning this internal conflict outward."
Way too funny.

I not only suspected so, but you see this all over. The people who rail on about how we need to skin pedophiles alive and eat their testicles, pull their eyes out and etc... My reaction to that is WTF dude, we have trials and life sentences, even the death penalty being applied full force already so why are you acting like President of the Child Rapist Torture Club?

For sure with gays, when someone is really warping out about it, showing discombobulation and rage over homosexuality... WTF. What explains the overkill? Candied squash makes me vomit. But hey, stuff yourself to your heart's content. How could something you do that does not affect me make me go ballistic?
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Old 13th December 2018, 04:00 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
What is that reason?
Because their word can swing millions of voters.

Gosh, look how Jim Jones was so courted by the political class despite being off his rocker, already fleeing prosecution in one state, committing the same crimes forthwith in the next state, and fleeing to The People's Temple "Agricultural Project" and promptly harvesting 900 dead bodies for Jeeebus.

Deference to religious leaders springs from the effective voting power they can marshal.
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Old 13th December 2018, 04:07 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Let's not forget, only MALE homosexuality is mentioned in the bible. Lesbians are HAWT!
Very nearly true. Look closely at Romans 1:26.
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Old 14th December 2018, 12:36 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Very nearly true. Look closely at Romans 1:26.
'And Livia did giggle, and hit Messalina with a pillow upon her comely bosom. 'Thou art pert and naughty' she declareth, and did giggle more. Messalina sprang upon her in laughter, and they did tumble onto the bed together. 'Thou hast spoiled my silken garment' the coy Livia said. And Messalina did remove her own silken garment to show repentance, but being chilled the two sought refuge beneath the coverings and tickled each other for warmth. 'Oh, my' said Messalina, saucily, 'I require your assistance with my' and the verse ends there, apparently the medieval copyist had a stroke at that point. Got to love those Romans.
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Old 14th December 2018, 09:59 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Okay but let's unpack that.

Let's say I'm 100%, across the board not against left handed people. I, on a personal level, completely okay with them in every way. But every... Thursday I go to a special building and gather with other people while somebody stands up in front of us and rants and raves about how left handers are evil.

Can we all agree that's at least... weird? Off?
No offense, but I have loathed the starting phrase from the first time a school administrator used it in a meeting. It is not a physical act to start describing what is in the latest crap plan for restructuring/doing something new (and usually stupid and just being done to make it look like a change is really happening). Hate that kind of crap!!!!!!!!! Reminds me of Marzano as in "Be careful as you leave today!! Don't step in the Marzano!!!!!!"...……….
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Old Yesterday, 01:42 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
No offense, but I have loathed the starting phrase from the first time a school administrator used it in a meeting. It is not a physical act to start describing what is in the latest crap plan for restructuring/doing something new (and usually stupid and just being done to make it look like a change is really happening). Hate that kind of crap!!!!!!!!! Reminds me of Marzano as in "Be careful as you leave today!! Don't step in the Marzano!!!!!!"...……….
Are you seriously saying that you hate euphemisms and figures of speech?

Because I can think of at least one member here whose body of work must really piss you off.
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Old Today, 05:56 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Very nearly true. Look closely at Romans 1:26.
'And Livia did giggle, and hit Messalina with a pillow upon her comely bosom. 'Thou art pert and naughty' she declareth, and did giggle more. Messalina sprang upon her in laughter, and they did tumble onto the bed together. 'Thou hast spoiled my silken garment' the coy Livia said. And Messalina did remove her own silken garment to show repentance, but being chilled the two sought refuge beneath the coverings and tickled each other for warmth. 'Oh, my' said Messalina, saucily, 'I require your assistance with my' and the verse ends there, apparently the medieval copyist had a stroke at that point. Got to love those Romans.

I much prefer your version of 1:26 to the original. I can recommend the German graphic author Ralf König's story Antitype about the apostle Paul:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

http://caricatura-museum.de/einzelbi...alf+König.html

There are Spanish and French translations, but I haven't found any in English.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old Today, 06:08 AM   #70
Craig4
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Ya' know, for an organization that rejects homosexuality, they sure spend a lot on gay prostitutes and blow.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...icle-1.3302974

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-...atican-n853636

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Old Today, 12:31 PM   #71
Thor 2
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Ya' know, for an organization that rejects homosexuality, they sure spend a lot on gay prostitutes and blow.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...icle-1.3302974

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-...atican-n853636

That's interesting:

"Police arrested the priest and hospitalized him to detox him from the drugs he had ingested, according to the newspaper.
He was taken in for questioning, presumably on drugs charges, as gay sex is legal in Vatican City."
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Old Today, 12:49 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
That's interesting:

"Police arrested the priest and hospitalized him to detox him from the drugs he had ingested, according to the newspaper.
He was taken in for questioning, presumably on drugs charges, as gay sex is legal in Vatican City."
Otherwise the cops would have to arrest everyone.
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Old Today, 01:16 PM   #73
dann
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LGBT rights in Vatican City: Summary table (Wikipedia)
Ages of consent in Europe: Vatican City (Wikipedia)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old Today, 02:03 PM   #74
fuelair
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sure. People rationalized child rape, they can rationalize a bit of homophobia.

In practical terms, I think local priests know their audience and don't prioritize unpopular teachings. A priest might see a perfectly healthy middle aged married couple with two kids, but he doesn't go on a harangue on the evils of contraceptives. They got the skillz to pay the billz, and the people that drop money in the basket don't want to hear that crap. Let the Bishops or the Vatican split philosophical hairs, Father Tom is just trying to keep the lights on and his church alive.

The people I know that are regular catholics profess a great deal of loyalty to their local church (and favorite priests), but not much respect to the greater organization. It's a bit of "that stuff doesn't happen here" mentality.

Catholic church attendance is continuing its long downslide. It's especially bad for younger people. Old habits die hard I suppose.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/232226/...ard-slide.aspx
Wonderful, that last. If only all of them were eroding away.
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Old Today, 02:06 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
'And Livia did giggle, and hit Messalina with a pillow upon her comely bosom. 'Thou art pert and naughty' she declareth, and did giggle more. Messalina sprang upon her in laughter, and they did tumble onto the bed together. 'Thou hast spoiled my silken garment' the coy Livia said. And Messalina did remove her own silken garment to show repentance, but being chilled the two sought refuge beneath the coverings and tickled each other for warmth. 'Oh, my' said Messalina, saucily, 'I require your assistance with my' and the verse ends there, apparently the medieval copyist had a stroke at that point. Got to love those Romans.
If that is not straight out of Revelations, I don't know what is!!!!
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Old Today, 02:12 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Are you seriously saying that you hate euphemisms and figures of speech?

Because I can think of at least one member here whose body of work must really piss you off.
Nope, just that one as it is clearly pointless and clearly invented by some nut case (note, it did not start use in education, it was apparently borrowed from the business world).

As to any other consideration, proper expression of certain things violates the rather pointless hiding of certain words and phrases so they must be adjusted. That is not and never has been my preference, nor is it my doing -and likely not the doing of the person you note.
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Old Today, 02:14 PM   #77
theprestige
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
If that is not straight out of Revelations, I don't know what is!!!!
I agree.
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Old Today, 02:16 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Nope, just that one as it is clearly pointless and clearly invented by some nut case (note, it did not start use in education, it was apparently borrowed from the business world).

As to any other consideration, proper expression of certain things violates the rather pointless hiding of certain words and phrases so they must be adjusted. That is not and never has been my preference, nor is it my doing -and likely not the doing of the person you note.
"The MA prevents me," said someone who hates euphemisms and figures of speech.
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Old Today, 02:16 PM   #79
fuelair
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Also, re the quoted TM, even the Spartan seasoned veteran's would never leave their trainee s behind!!
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