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Old 4th December 2018, 03:45 PM   #2721
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Quote:
riginally Posted by Joecool
I am assigned to my new job of professional golfer in your no money world
Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You mentioned it dozen of times, we all know that you are lazy.
I'm not lazy. I earn a nice living, but my job is difficult and unpleasant at times. But I don't mind because I am compensated for my efforts.

But if things are going to be free and people can choose their occupation, why should I do something difficult and unpleasant for free when I can do something I enjoy doing?

Speaking of lazy, when are you going to clean Robo Timbo's and my toilets?
That would show that you are sincere and not just trolling us.
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Old 5th December 2018, 02:37 AM   #2722
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Speaking of lazy, when are you going to clean Robo Timbo's and my toilets?
That would show that you are sincere and not just trolling us.
Under the no money system nobody will clean the toilet of a pig, but under the money system, yes.
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Old 5th December 2018, 05:41 AM   #2723
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Under the no money system nobody will clean the toilet of a pig, but under the money system, yes.
No, under the no money system you will clean toilets. I will test drive super cars and yachts. Everything will be free so I can have as many as I want of anything I want. I'll just be living by your rules.
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Old 5th December 2018, 06:35 AM   #2724
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Simply because people would like to keep the money for them self to buy their things. That's a pervert situation when money is involve.
It's not the money they want to keep. It's their resources. While I might, say, give an onion to a direct neighbor in a time of need, my garden is not a free for all. I might let a friend use a spare room at no charge in a time of need, I'm not running a free BnB to everyone who knocks.

Resources aren't unlimited nor are they free with our without money. There is always a cost. You keep saying that others don't understand and that it is simple. The simple truth is that you don't understand that resources are not free and that a cost is being paid by someone with our without currency.
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Old 5th December 2018, 10:48 AM   #2725
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
It's not the money they want to keep. It's their resources. While I might, say, give an onion to a direct neighbor in a time of need, my garden is not a free for all. I might let a friend use a spare room at no charge in a time of need, I'm not running a free BnB to everyone who knocks.

Resources aren't unlimited nor are they free with our without money. There is always a cost. You keep saying that others don't understand and that it is simple. The simple truth is that you don't understand that resources are not free and that a cost is being paid by someone with our without currency.
Exactly right! Even in the caveman days, they didn't use "money" but they had things of value that they could barter with. Salt to preserve food, primitive tools, etc.

Even with no money, certain commodities would become the equivalent.
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Old 5th December 2018, 10:50 AM   #2726
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Under the no money system nobody will clean the toilet of a pig, but under the money system, yes.
If there was no money but I owned guns, I could "persuade" you to clean toilets. I'm fairly certain of that. Either that or you get a kick in the arse.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:07 PM   #2727
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
If there was no money but I owned guns, I could "persuade" you to clean toilets. I'm fairly certain of that. Either that or you get a kick in the arse.
You'll appreciate the penis of el diablo when you pass away. Good luck with your new lover.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:13 PM   #2728
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You'll appreciate the penis of el diablo when you pass away. Good luck with your new lover.
El Diablo is as fictional as your no money world.

I guess it's true that when someone runs out of cogent arguments, they resort to insults and personal attacks.

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Old 5th December 2018, 06:04 PM   #2729
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You'll appreciate the penis of el diablo when you pass away. Good luck with your new lover.
Thank you for admitting your argument is purely religious.
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Old 5th December 2018, 06:20 PM   #2730
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
El Diablo is as fictional as your no money world.

I guess it's true that when someone runs out of cogent arguments, they resort to insults and personal attacks.

Just like you, Trump is a non believer too, he doesn't believe scientists about climat change but fox news, he believes all that.
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Old 5th December 2018, 06:39 PM   #2731
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Back to the thread topic, if anyone is interested, inside the dust jacket of the 2017 book of Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrowthe author describes the current trend is growing that divides rich and poor based on occupation and the future will be rich and the irrelevant.

I'll edit in the exact quote from the book in a little while. It was quite profound.
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Old 5th December 2018, 07:49 PM   #2732
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Just like you, Trump is a non believer too, he doesn't believe scientists about climat change but fox news, he believes all that.
Would you like for me to request that the thread be moved to the religious nutter forum since your argument never advances beyond your weird beliefs?
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Old 5th December 2018, 10:41 PM   #2733
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Just like you, Trump is a non believer too, he doesn't believe scientists about climat change but fox news, he believes all that.
Trump's religious beliefs are irrelevant to the discussion.

Jesus told the Pharisees to give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar (Money) and to give to God, what belongs to God (your heart). Jesus told his disciples to pay the temple tax. He did not discourage the use of money. In the book of Romans is says to pay your taxes and respect government authority. So money is not an issue.

It is Gaetan's weird hope to gain money equality by simply removing money from society which would have catastrophic results.

Climate change has not been proven. And how would you do anything about it to begin with? To work on addressing climate change, you need MONEY.
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Old 6th December 2018, 02:44 AM   #2734
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Climate change has not been proven.
People in US are crying because GHW Bush is passed away but this man is in hell. Why are you crying about? They made a good fiesta with that. When he was president he killed a lot of people but in US there is absolutely no justice, if you are black and you stole a pizza because you are hungry, you get 25 years in prison but you are president you are seen as a national hero. You like money and you are completely out of sense.
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:56 AM   #2735
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There is no hell, nor does satan, who is an imaginary being, have a dick. Even an imaginary one.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:09 AM   #2736
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
People in US are crying because GHW Bush is passed away but this man is in hell.
Matthew 7:
Quote:
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Gaetan,

Since you claim that your desire to eliminate money comes from the Bible, perhaps you can show where the Bible says money should be eliminated?

It's pretty clear to me that the Bible says no such thing.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:16 AM   #2737
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You'll appreciate the penis of el diablo when you pass away. Good luck with your new lover.
You seem to be the poster most vested in fairy tales.

"El Diablo" isn't any more real than your imaginary friend.
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Old 6th December 2018, 02:04 PM   #2738
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
You seem to be the poster most vested in fairy tales.

"El Diablo" isn't any more real than your imaginary friend.
You say that el diablo is imaginary, poor fool, you have one as président. El diablo is the chief of a group of bad spirit in the other world. Bernie Senders would have been a good man but Americans are brain washed, they don't want to hear anything about socialism, the medias of rich didn't like him because he wanted to help poor and have rich to pay their fair amount of income tax.
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Old 6th December 2018, 02:10 PM   #2739
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Bernie Senders would have been a good man but Americans are brain washed, they don't want to hear anything about socialism, the medias of rich didn't like him because he wanted to help poor and have rich to pay their fair amount of income tax.
This story sums up in real numbers, how much the rich in the US pay in taxes. Sure looks like the rich pay more than their share. Who would pay if nobody had money?

Quote:
Suppose there were a banquet for 100 people and at the end of the night it was time to split the bill of $50 per person. If that bill were paid for the way we pay our income taxes, here is how it would work. Those in the top half of income would pay roughly $97 each and those in the bottom half of the income would pay an average of $3 each. Almost 40 people would pay nothing. And the single richest person in the room would cough up $1,750.

Liberals would complain that the cheap skate rich guy got away without paying his fair share.
Quote:
The top 10 percent pay two-thirds of the income tax. And the bottom 50 percent — all Americans with an income below the median — pay just 3 percent of the income tax. The federal income tax, according to a recent study by the Tax Foundation, is one of the most progressive tax systems in the world. Scott Hodge, president of Tax Foundation, says: “Almost no other industrialized nation depends on the rich to pay the bills more than the United States.”

https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-...eir-fair-share

Last edited by Joecool; 6th December 2018 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 6th December 2018, 02:19 PM   #2740
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
but Americans are brain washed
Only the ones who believe in fairy tales. But you also believe in fairy tales. Are you brain washed?
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Old 6th December 2018, 02:42 PM   #2741
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
This story sums up in real numbers, how much the rich in the US pay in taxes. Sure looks like the rich pay more than their share. Who would pay if nobody had money?
https://www.heritage.org/budget-and-...eir-fair-share
That makes no sense, itinerants are the ones who pays the more tax in US, when they buy a beer or a packed of cigarettes they almost pay in tax their whole revenu of the day and when they sleep in a place they have no right the income tax agent gives them an invoice that exceed their income for the whole month, the more you are poor in US the more you pay tax, the more you are rich the less you pay.
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Old 6th December 2018, 03:22 PM   #2742
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
That makes no sense, itinerants are the ones who pays the more tax in US, when they buy a beer or a packed of cigarettes they almost pay in tax their whole revenu of the day and when they sleep in a place they have no right the income tax agent gives them an invoice that exceed their income for the whole month, the more you are poor in US the more you pay tax, the more you are rich the less you pay.
Then you agree that it would be stupid to take away all of their money, as you propose?
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Old 6th December 2018, 03:29 PM   #2743
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
That makes no sense, itinerants are the ones who pays the more tax in US, when they buy a beer or a packed of cigarettes they almost pay in tax their whole revenu of the day and when they sleep in a place they have no right the income tax agent gives them an invoice that exceed their income for the whole month, the more you are poor in US the more you pay tax, the more you are rich the less you pay.
You must believe the lies of the liberal media instead of the facts.

Quote:
In recent studies conducted by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center that show the richest 10% of Americans are paying 70% of all the income tax in the U.S. These super rich Americans are paying an income tax rate of 39.6%. This is the highest federal income tax bracket according to the IRS. Households that fall into this bracket are:

Those filing as single that make over $400,000
Married couples filing together that make over $450,000
Married individuals that file separately making over $225,000
Head of households making over $425,000
https://smartasset.com/insights/do-t...share-of-taxes

If some are so "poor" as you say, maybe they should abstain from beer and cigarettes. Those kinds of vices are a voluntary tax. Not the same as necessities such as food.

Also, some of the "poor" receive food stamps, cash welfare, medical and other government benefits so rather than paying net taxes, they actually receive more from government than they put in. If you eliminate MONEY, these folks would be worse off.
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Old 6th December 2018, 03:42 PM   #2744
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
You must believe the lies of the liberal media instead of the facts.



https://smartasset.com/insights/do-t...share-of-taxes

If some are so "poor" as you say, maybe they should abstain from beer and cigarettes. Those kinds of vices are a voluntary tax. Not the same as necessities such as food.

Also, some of the "poor" receive food stamps, cash welfare, medical and other government benefits so rather than paying net taxes, they actually receive more from government than they put in. If you eliminate MONEY, these folks would be worse off.
That makes no sense, the more you are poor the more you pay tax, your figures don't take into account all tax but just income tax. poor pays more than 60% of their income in tax, itinerants pay in tax more than their income.
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Old 6th December 2018, 03:46 PM   #2745
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
That makes no sense, the more you are poor the more you pay tax, your figures don't take into account all tax but just income tax. poor pays more than 60% of their income in tax, itinerants pay in tax more than their income.
What did the make-believe Jesus say about taxes?
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Old 6th December 2018, 04:15 PM   #2746
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
That makes no sense, the more you are poor the more you pay tax, your figures don't take into account all tax but just income tax. poor pays more than 60% of their income in tax, itinerants pay in tax more than their income.
I posted links to substantiate what I was claiming. Where's your evidence that poor people pay more than 60% of their income in taxes? You're just making baseless assertions. Not that I'm surpised.

What about if these same poors are receiving food stamps or cash welfare?
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Old 7th December 2018, 09:33 AM   #2747
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
I posted links to substantiate what I was claiming. Where's your evidence that poor people pay more than 60% of their income in taxes? You're just making baseless assertions. Not that I'm surpised.

What about if these same poors are receiving food stamps or cash welfare?
Just look your president, he is billionneer and he never paid income tax of his live, they said that in the media, in theory they are suppose to but in practice they don't. The same for poor in theory they don't pay tax but in practice they pay more then 60% of their income in tax. You have to take into account what they pay that goes in the account of the government and the city banks. For a rich tax is a little bit to pay but for a poor it is a lot.
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Old 7th December 2018, 10:11 AM   #2748
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Just look your president, he is billionneer and he never paid income tax of his live, they said that in the media, in theory they are suppose to but in practice they don't. The same for poor in theory they don't pay tax but in practice they pay more then 60% of their income in tax. You have to take into account what they pay that goes in the account of the government and the city banks. For a rich tax is a little bit to pay but for a poor it is a lot.
You just make crap up. Did make-believe Jesus teach people to lie?
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Old 7th December 2018, 10:21 AM   #2749
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Just look your president, he is billionneer and he never paid income tax of his live, they said that in the media, in theory they are suppose to but in practice they don't. The same for poor in theory they don't pay tax but in practice they pay more then 60% of their income in tax. You have to take into account what they pay that goes in the account of the government and the city banks. For a rich tax is a little bit to pay but for a poor it is a lot.
I guarantee you that Bill Gates or Trump pays more taxes than some guy on food stamps.

Where are you getting this mythical 60% from? People in lower income brackets often pay no net federal taxes. They may get taxed by their own state but the rich are also subject to those taxes.

I don't have that much sympathy for some poor guy who gets taxed because he's spending his money on beer and cigarettes.
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Old 7th December 2018, 10:33 AM   #2750
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
I guarantee you that Bill Gates or Trump pays more taxes than some guy on food stamps.

Where are you getting this mythical 60% from? People in lower income brackets often pay no net federal taxes. They may get taxed by their own state but the rich are also subject to those taxes.

I don't have that much sympathy for some poor guy who gets taxed because he's spending his money on beer and cigarettes.
It's more than possible.

I'm no Gates, but between my pension and my salary, after deductions, I'm paying around $35,000.00 in federal tax and $9,000.00 to the state.

It will go up again when I eventually take social security and my other two pensions.

I's be willing to bet good money that my yearly tax obligation far outstrips a certain poster's annual income, but in their fantasy construct I'm the bad guy.
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Old 7th December 2018, 11:34 AM   #2751
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
I'm no Gates, but between my pension and my salary, after deductions, I'm paying around $35,000.00 in federal tax and $9,000.00 to the state.

It will go up again when I eventually take social security and my other two pensions.

I's be willing to bet good money that my yearly tax obligation far outstrips a certain poster's annual income, but in their fantasy construct I'm the bad guy.
Your post already proves Gaetan wrong. It's the biased media that gives people the idea that some poor guy actually pays more taxes than a rich guy.

I posted links before. About 44% of Americans pay no federal taxes. It could be true that a poor shmoe pays more local taxes than a rich guy because of fees, gas and beer taxes, etc. But the poor shmoes do not pay more taxes than rich guys overall.

When you factor in food stamps, welfare, free medical, many of the "poors" end up with a net gain overall and actually take more out of the pot than they put in.
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Old 7th December 2018, 02:32 PM   #2752
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Your post already proves Gaetan wrong. It's the biased media that gives people the idea that some poor guy actually pays more taxes than a rich guy.
You got to take into account what goes in the bank account of government and cities, we discussed it before, just take the exemple of a woman with 2 kids working at minimum wage, just taking the metro or bus to go to work it is a lot to pay, not for a rich but for a poor it is a lot.
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Old 7th December 2018, 02:56 PM   #2753
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Your post already proves Gaetan wrong. It's the biased media that gives people the idea that some poor guy actually pays more taxes than a rich guy.

I posted links before. About 44% of Americans pay no federal taxes. It could be true that a poor shmoe pays more local taxes than a rich guy because of fees, gas and beer taxes, etc. But the poor shmoes do not pay more taxes than rich guys overall.

When you factor in food stamps, welfare, free medical, many of the "poors" end up with a net gain overall and actually take more out of the pot than they put in.
Depends on how you define "poor"

In my neck of the woods, $117,400.00 yearly is considered "low income":

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/20...ancisco-marin/

SAN MATEO (KPIX 5) Remember when a six-figure salary meant you had a really good job? In three Bay Area counties, San Francisco, San Mateo and Marin, if you make below $117,400, you’re officially poor.

“That kind of shocks you. How is that possibly poverty by anybody’s measure? But it actually is for a family of four in our area,” said Ken Cole, Director of the San Mateo County Department of Housing


I know someone who is receiving county housing assistance taking a $69,000.00 salary.
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Old 7th December 2018, 03:29 PM   #2754
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You got to take into account what goes in the bank account of government and cities, we discussed it before, just take the exemple of a woman with 2 kids working at minimum wage, just taking the metro or bus to go to work it is a lot to pay, not for a rich but for a poor it is a lot.
Why do you want to take away all of her money?
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Old 8th December 2018, 12:29 AM   #2755
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You got to take into account what goes in the bank account of government and cities, we discussed it before, just take the exemple of a woman with 2 kids working at minimum wage, just taking the metro or bus to go to work it is a lot to pay, not for a rich but for a poor it is a lot.
What does that have to do with the poors paying more taxes?

A woman with 2 kids working minimum wage is unfortunate. Where is the kid's father?
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Old 8th December 2018, 08:14 AM   #2756
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
That makes no sense, itinerants are the ones who pays the more tax in US, when they buy a beer or a packed of cigarettes they almost pay in tax their whole revenu of the day and when they sleep in a place they have no right the income tax agent gives them an invoice that exceed their income for the whole month, the more you are poor in US the more you pay tax, the more you are rich the less you pay.
It is irrelevant as to whether or not it makes sense to you. There are criteria that can make one exempt from income tax. Most pertain to being poor, old, disabled or some combination thereof.

https://money.howstuffworks.com/pers...rom-taxes1.htm

As income tax is only some percentage of your income the only way your can get "an invoice that exceed their income for the whole month" is if you failed to report previous income, took undeserved deductions previously or similar action and thus owed back taxes.

Perhaps you are simply referring to that "invoice that exceed their income for the whole month" as being say a property tax. Then you simply live in a property you can't afford to maintain. Your own assertion of "they sleep in a place they have no right" indicates that you already know that scenario to be beyond ones means.

Programs also reduce such property taxes, such as NYS STAR program.

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/finance/be...ords-star.page

Activity in local government can also give one a voice in how tax burdens are accessed and funds used. This can include simply having your property reassessed.
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Old 8th December 2018, 08:36 AM   #2757
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
Just look your president, he is billionneer and he never paid income tax of his live, they said that in the media, in theory they are suppose to but in practice they don't. The same for poor in theory they don't pay tax but in practice they pay more then 60% of their income in tax. You have to take into account what they pay that goes in the account of the government and the city banks. For a rich tax is a little bit to pay but for a poor it is a lot.
The average tax bill for someone making 5K to 10K is ... $192.00. This is not 60%. It's not even 6%. It also doesn't take into account credits. odds are, they paid nothing with the EITC. The poor simply don't pay income tax.

The average tax bill for someone making between 5 and 10 million? $1,952,574. Close to 20%

If you want to look at the real numbers, and not figures you've pulled out your ass - https://www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-t...port#_IndRates
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Old 8th December 2018, 08:53 AM   #2758
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And to follow up. For someone to rack up 60% of their income in sales tax, when sales tax is less than 10%, they would have to be spending 6 times more than they are making. For example, a guy making 100 bucks a week, paying 60 bucks in sales tax, would have to be spending 600 a week, losing 500 bucks a week. Someone making 5200 a year would have a hard time finding someone to spot him 26 grand a year.
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Old 8th December 2018, 02:11 PM   #2759
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Originally Posted by Leftus View Post
And to follow up. For someone to rack up 60% of their income in sales tax, when sales tax is less than 10%, they would have to be spending 6 times more than they are making. For example, a guy making 100 bucks a week, paying 60 bucks in sales tax, would have to be spending 600 a week, losing 500 bucks a week. Someone making 5200 a year would have a hard time finding someone to spot him 26 grand a year.
You pay tax to get services. Then bus, electricity and so on are tax, then poor pay more than 60% of their income in tax.
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Old 8th December 2018, 02:45 PM   #2760
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Originally Posted by Gaetan View Post
You pay tax to get services. Then bus, electricity and so on are tax, then poor pay more than 60% of their income in tax.
No, just because taxes pay for some services doesn't mean all services paid for are taxes.
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