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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 5th December 2018, 04:40 PM   #401
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
educating folks on what a specious nit picking objection you have raised?

Yeah, pretty much there.

TBD is launching dingers, and y'all are bragging that you got a first down.

Touchdown TBD!
That's the spirit.
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Old 5th December 2018, 05:00 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Damn right, another good post by you!

molehill: hey this guy maybe told not fully consistent things about this perfectly legal thing he did. Prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law!

0 to 14 days in jail.

Mountain: Hey what about the CIA leaks? Hello? Anyone home?

Crickets.

Anyone heard of Deep Throat?
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Old 5th December 2018, 05:09 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Because we have a troll president, supported by other trolls, and we have even non-trolls supporting them with the same troll arguments.

Their arguments and views are those we have to deal with. I understand there is the balance of giving them credence by addressing them at all, and not allowing bad/stupid/irrational/hateful/utterly craven ideas to go unchallenged, but the former ship has sailed with them gaining political power.

Do you see any Trump defender making any arguments substantially better? The only ones I can find are those that address only the accusations against Trump that are not supported or have evidence against them, and even then those people tend to then lump all accusations against Trump in with the weak ones.
Trump make an intelligent or honest argument? Surely ye jest. He mostly whines and lies.
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Old 5th December 2018, 05:27 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I believe he was being facetious.

I always love the, "If you don't think like I do, then YOU aren't a skeptic." What's the name for that? Something about the Scottish? Lol

Show your evidence TBD, otherwise you know the way to the CT forum.
A "No True Skeptic" fallacy?
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Old 5th December 2018, 05:36 PM   #405
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"What Flynn pleaded guilty to was not a crime" is basically the "no planes" conspiracy applied to the Trump legal scandal.
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Old 5th December 2018, 05:43 PM   #406
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Pro tip for TDB

5 USC § 2302 Pub.L. 101-12
https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-...senate-bill/20

S.743 - Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2012
https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-...-bill/743/text

Read them
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As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 5th December 2018, 06:16 PM   #407
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Pro tip for TDB

5 USC § 2302 Pub.L. 101-12
https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-...senate-bill/20

S.743 - Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2012
https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-...-bill/743/text

Read them
Cool beans, but I can’t figure out what the FBI’s raid on the uranium whistleblower has to do with what we are talking about.

Pro tip: those having nothing to do with anything I have been explaining. I get it tho: made ya look!
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Old 5th December 2018, 06:31 PM   #408
I Am The Scum
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Pro tip for TDB

5 USC § 2302 Pub.L. 101-12
https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-...senate-bill/20

S.743 - Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2012
https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-...-bill/743/text

Read them
He doesn't actually care about the leaks. He doesn't care about crime and punishment. He just wants "the enemy" to be punished. Any other apparent values he displays are merely a dressing-up of his enmity.
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Old 5th December 2018, 06:36 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
educating folks on what a specious nit picking objection you have raised?

Yeah, pretty much there.

TBD is launching dingers, and y'all are bragging that you got a first down.

Touchdown TBD!
Holy ****** I figured it out. That's the final clue. You aren't even playing the same GAME as everyone else. 24D Chess!

Seriously though, those two sayings don't belong to the same sport.
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Old 5th December 2018, 07:04 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
educating folks on what a specious nit picking objection you have raised?

Yeah, pretty much there.

TBD is launching dingers, and y'all are bragging that you got a first down.

Touchdown TBD!
Is that what you kids are calling it these days? Anyway, it should be curable with prompt medical treatment.
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Old 5th December 2018, 07:10 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Trump make an intelligent or honest argument? Surely ye jest. He mostly whines and lies.
Trump defender, not Trump.

I'm guessing that at some point Trump has made an intelligent argument, and here is where one would normally talk about a 'stopped clock' being right twice a day (or one running backward four times), but Trump is more like a digital clock that's been made to read out 'BOOB'.

He inadvertently makes honest arguments all the time; they just show him to be a truly depraved person. He loves the Saudis because they pay him millions, for example.
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Old 5th December 2018, 09:45 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
He doesn't actually care about the leaks. He doesn't care about crime and punishment. He just wants "the enemy" to be punished. Any other apparent values he displays are merely a dressing-up of his enmity.
It's the core of Trumpism.
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Old 5th December 2018, 09:46 PM   #413
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On the Rachel Maddow show tonight, she asked an important question: Trump has always bent over backwards to protect Michael Flynn. Obama told him he was trouble, as did everybody else. When it became impossible to keep him on board, he pressured Comey and others to "let it go". Ever since then, it has been radio silence, no nick names or anything, even after the revelations of this week. Why?
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Old 5th December 2018, 10:11 PM   #414
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From what we know, Flynn really shouldn't get off scot-free: he got caught being a paid foreign lobbyist and just had to rat some others out to be no worse off.
I hope that at least his reputation is tanked and he didn't get to keep the Turkish money.
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Old 5th December 2018, 11:48 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
That is depressing to read.
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Old 5th December 2018, 11:50 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
From what we know, Flynn really shouldn't get off scot-free: he got caught being a paid foreign lobbyist and just had to rat some others out to be no worse off.
I hope that at least his reputation is tanked and he didn't get to keep the Turkish money.
I hope he's remembered he was a general and he's embarrassed and remorseful for his own actions during and after the Trump campaign.
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Old 6th December 2018, 12:17 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Holy ****** I figured it out. That's the final clue. You aren't even playing the same GAME as everyone else. 24D Chess!

Seriously though, those two sayings don't belong to the same sport.
Whatever. You can't deal with the fact his touchdowns have all been grand slams. That's TWO buttermilk pancakes, TWO eggs sunny-side up, TWO strips of bacon, TWO sausage links, hash browns, AND coffee.
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Old 6th December 2018, 02:23 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Whatever. You can't deal with the fact his touchdowns have all been grand slams. That's TWO buttermilk pancakes, TWO eggs sunny-side up, TWO strips of bacon, TWO sausage links, hash browns, AND coffee.
And he has that with TWO scoops of ice cream for dessert?
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:09 AM   #419
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I hope he's remembered he was a general and he's embarrassed and remorseful for his own actions during and after the Trump campaign.
Very droll.
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:10 AM   #420
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
And he has that with TWO scoops of ice cream for dessert?
Yup, and all of it smothered in ketchup. Mmmm, sweet sweet ketchup ...
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:27 AM   #421
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"Mueller is recommending that Michael Flynn be given no jail time because of his “substantial assistance” to the special counsel inquiry."

Could be interesting.

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/n...HuzpwHlgyirkK8
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:51 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
"Curious" as to why sensible people don't use the ignore function on trolls.
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Because we have a troll president, supported by other trolls, and we have even non-trolls supporting them with the same troll arguments.

Their arguments and views are those we have to deal with. I understand there is the balance of giving them credence by addressing them at all, and not allowing bad/stupid/irrational/hateful/utterly craven ideas to go unchallenged, but the former ship has sailed with them gaining political power.

Do you see any Trump defender making any arguments substantially better? The only ones I can find are those that address only the accusations against Trump that are not supported or have evidence against them, and even then those people tend to then lump all accusations against Trump in with the weak ones.
People here can't seem to help themselves. The trolls are playing by a different set of rules. If their posts provoke a reaction from the libs or they control the conversation by distracting/diverting the conversation to what they're talking about instead of what's actually important and relevant then they've won. It doesn't matter if what they post is factually wrong, conspiracy theory, partisan bias, or hypocrisy. It doesn't matter if those who respond are correct, or mock them, or annihilate their argument. Those aren't the rules of their game. By their rules, almost any response means they've accomplished their goal and therefore they've won.

But people here see the posts and think about how wrong it is and how they have a great counter argument, and can't help but respond. I understand this feeling and it's hard not to respond myself and I occasionally still fail in that regard. But after seeing the same pattern over and over I can come to no other conclusion.

'Those first 100 mouthfuls of dirt didn't taste very good, maybe the next one will taste better'

For the foreseeable future people will continue to eat mouthfuls of dirt and the trolls will continue to win their game.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:06 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Whatever. You can't deal with the fact his touchdowns have all been grand slams. That's TWO buttermilk pancakes, TWO eggs sunny-side up, TWO strips of bacon, TWO sausage links, hash browns, AND coffee.
I had a mouthful of coffee, while working on a customers laptop when I read this...testing my abilities.

I could really use a grand slam as well.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:12 AM   #424
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
People here can't seem to help themselves. The trolls are playing by a different set of rules. If their posts provoke a reaction from the libs or they control the conversation by distracting/diverting the conversation to what they're talking about instead of what's actually important and relevant then they've won. It doesn't matter if what they post is factually wrong, conspiracy theory, partisan bias, or hypocrisy. It doesn't matter if those who respond are correct, or mock them, or annihilate their argument. Those aren't the rules of their game. By their rules, almost any response means they've accomplished their goal and therefore they've won.

But people here see the posts and think about how wrong it is and how they have a great counter argument, and can't help but respond. I understand this feeling and it's hard not to respond myself and I occasionally still fail in that regard. But after seeing the same pattern over and over I can come to no other conclusion.

'Those first 100 mouthfuls of dirt didn't taste very good, maybe the next one will taste better'

For the foreseeable future people will continue to eat mouthfuls of dirt and the trolls will continue to win their game.
I use taking apart absurd posts to practice my logical thinking.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:17 AM   #425
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On the one hand, Rachel Maddow implied but didn't come right out and say that Trump must not be ragging on Michael Flynn because Trump is smart enough (for once) to not mess around with something that could be dangerous to him.

On the other hand, can't we infer that Flynn, despite all his suspicious contacts with the Russians, wasn't involved in collusion because wouldn't Mueller have included charges related to collusion in the indictment he just filed? And, how could it be that Flynn didn't collude, given his central position in dealings with Russia?
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:27 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by The_Animus View Post
People here can't seem to help themselves. The trolls are playing by a different set of rules. If their posts provoke a reaction from the libs or they control the conversation by distracting/diverting the conversation to what they're talking about instead of what's actually important and relevant then they've won. It doesn't matter if what they post is factually wrong, conspiracy theory, partisan bias, or hypocrisy. It doesn't matter if those who respond are correct, or mock them, or annihilate their argument. Those aren't the rules of their game. By their rules, almost any response means they've accomplished their goal and therefore they've won.

But people here see the posts and think about how wrong it is and how they have a great counter argument, and can't help but respond. I understand this feeling and it's hard not to respond myself and I occasionally still fail in that regard. But after seeing the same pattern over and over I can come to no other conclusion.

'Those first 100 mouthfuls of dirt didn't taste very good, maybe the next one will taste better'

For the foreseeable future people will continue to eat mouthfuls of dirt and the trolls will continue to win their game.
I agree except with the part about not responding. If 40% of the voters in this country actually buy into the troll logic, they absolutely should be responded to - as thoroughly and directly as possible, laying out why they are wrong, or why their logic is invalid.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:37 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
From what we know, Flynn really shouldn't get off scot-free: he got caught being a paid foreign lobbyist and just had to rat some others out to be no worse off.
I hope that at least his reputation is tanked and he didn't get to keep the Turkish money.
No he shouldn't. No question in my mind and every career military officer I've heard speak about Flynn. Flynn betrayed his country. I heard Colonel Peters on MSNBC talking about Flynn. Someone he has known Flynn for 30 years. He said Flynn was a great soldier and someone he liked personally, but who betrayed his country.

His opinion was that military officers know better and should be held to a higher standard. Peters said he was shocked when he heard about Flynn working for Russia. But given how often Flynn met with Mueller he believed he came totally clean and gave Mueller EVERYTHING he had.

That is the only reason I believe he got off.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:41 AM   #428
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I hope he's remembered he was a general and he's embarrassed and remorseful for his own actions during and after the Trump campaign.
I hope he's remembered as the key person who took down Trump. That he realized that he had made a huge mistake and he was trying to make amends to the country that he had once served faithfully.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:04 AM   #429
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What is really intriguing is that Mueller and his team went to the bother of quoting extensively from the WaPo article, going so far as to say that the author (who is neither a lawyer, prosecutor nor judge) speculated that Flynn violated the Logan Act.

They never tried to tie that up, and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Someone stroking CIA's paper boy's ego for some reason, hmmm?
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:07 AM   #430
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
What is really intriguing is that Mueller and his team went to the bother of quoting extensively from the WaPo article, going so far as to say that the author (who is neither a lawyer, prosecutor nor judge) speculated that Flynn violated the Logan Act.

They never tried to tie that up, and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Someone stroking CIA's paper boy's ego for some reason, hmmm?
Things are getting a bit hot, aren't they TBD?
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:09 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I hope he's remembered as the key person who took down Trump. That he realized that he had made a huge mistake and he was trying to make amends to the country that he had once served faithfully.
I can, within reason, respect that not matter the politics of the matter for a person who's served their country as long as Flynn has "taking down the President" is a hard step to take and something he considered a last resort.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:13 AM   #432
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
On the other hand, can't we infer that Flynn, despite all his suspicious contacts with the Russians, wasn't involved in collusion because wouldn't Mueller have included charges related to collusion in the indictment he just filed?
You're assuming that Mueller charged him on everything that he could charge him on. The question, if that is the case, is why did Flynn cooperate as thoroughly as he did in order to avoid a sentence of no more than 6 months? And why is Mueller happy to charge him now if he may be required at a later date to provide more information or testify?

A reasonable explanation is that Mueller has other charges against Flynn that he is choosing not to charge as part of a plea deal, and if Flynn breaks that deal then Mueller can bring those other charges.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:15 AM   #433
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
On the one hand, Rachel Maddow implied but didn't come right out and say that Trump must not be ragging on Michael Flynn because Trump is smart enough (for once) to not mess around with something that could be dangerous to him.

On the other hand, can't we infer that Flynn, despite all his suspicious contacts with the Russians, wasn't involved in collusion because wouldn't Mueller have included charges related to collusion in the indictment he just filed? And, how could it be that Flynn didn't collude, given his central position in dealings with Russia?
what are the suspicious contacts with the Russians you are referring to?

A list if you please...
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:17 AM   #434
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
what are the suspicious contacts with the Russians you are referring to?

A list if you please...
Water is wet you say? I demand you provide me a list of every body of water on the planet that is wet before we move forward. I'll wait.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:23 AM   #435
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
On the one hand, Rachel Maddow implied but didn't come right out and say that Trump must not be ragging on Michael Flynn because Trump is smart enough (for once) to not mess around with something that could be dangerous to him.

On the other hand, can't we infer that Flynn, despite all his suspicious contacts with the Russians, wasn't involved in collusion because wouldn't Mueller have included charges related to collusion in the indictment he just filed? And, how could it be that Flynn didn't collude, given his central position in dealings with Russia?
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
what are the suspicious contacts with the Russians you are referring to?

A list if you please...
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Water is wet you say? I demand you provide me a list of every body of water on the planet that is wet before we move forward. I'll wait.
Oh dear, did you believe it was unreasonable for me to ask this question about a claim made in another person's post?

Huh....
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:23 AM   #436
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Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
I agree except with the part about not responding. If 40% of the voters in this country actually buy into the troll logic, they absolutely should be responded to - as thoroughly and directly as possible, laying out why they are wrong, or why their logic is invalid.
My two cents on it is I don't really see how the trolls are "winning". Their goal is to get under the skin, or needlessly irritate their "opposition".

Does anyone here actually get flustered, angry, or upset at statements that disagree with yours? I can say I certainly don't.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:24 AM   #437
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I can, within reason, respect that not matter the politics of the matter for a person who's served their country as long as Flynn has "taking down the President" is a hard step to take and something he considered a last resort.
It may not be what he hoped for when he started his career. But it may be the most important way he served this nation
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:29 AM   #438
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It may not be what he hoped for when he started his career. But it may be the most important way he served this nation
Indeed. "I supported the President, even protected, him as long as I could, far longer than people think I should have, past the even the point it was legal because I honestly thought it was the best thing for the country, but in the end I had to do what was right." isn't a good thing per se, but it's understandable, even respectable in a way.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:37 AM   #439
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear, did you believe it was unreasonable for me to ask this question about a claim made in another person's post?

Huh....
I'll start the list.

Sergey Kislyak
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:37 AM   #440
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Indeed. "I supported the President, even protected, him as long as I could, far longer than people think I should have, past the even the point it was legal because I honestly thought it was the best thing for the country, but in the end I had to do what was right." isn't a good thing per se, but it's understandable, even respectable in a way.
golly, I hope that it is not unreasonable to get a source for that quote, because i have reviewed his statements and it does not appear that he said that.

Thanks a bunch!
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