Mueller Investigation pt4 - Page 11

Squeegee Beckenheim · 5th December 2018, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

educating folks on what a specious nit picking objection you have raised?

Yeah, pretty much there.

TBD is launching dingers, and y'all are bragging that you got a first down.

Touchdown TBD!

That's the spirit.

a_unique_person · 5th December 2018, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

Damn right, another good post by you!

molehill: hey this guy maybe told not fully consistent things about this perfectly legal thing he did. Prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law!

0 to 14 days in jail.

Mountain: Hey what about the CIA leaks? Hello? Anyone home?

Crickets.

Anyone heard of Deep Throat?

acbytesla · 5th December 2018, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

Because we have a troll president, supported by other trolls, and we have even non-trolls supporting them with the same troll arguments.

Their arguments and views are those we have to deal with. I understand there is the balance of giving them credence by addressing them at all, and not allowing bad/stupid/irrational/hateful/utterly craven ideas to go unchallenged, but the former ship has sailed with them gaining political power.

Do you see any Trump defender making any arguments substantially better? The only ones I can find are those that address only the accusations against Trump that are not supported or have evidence against them, and even then those people tend to then lump all accusations against Trump in with the weak ones.

Trump make an intelligent or honest argument? Surely ye jest. He mostly whines and lies.

smartcooky · 5th December 2018, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by plague311

I believe he was being facetious.

I always love the, "If you don't think like I do, then YOU aren't a skeptic." What's the name for that? Something about the Scottish? Lol

Show your evidence TBD, otherwise you know the way to the CT forum.

A "No True Skeptic" fallacy?

I Am The Scum · 5th December 2018, 05:36 PM

"What Flynn pleaded guilty to was not a crime" is basically the "no planes" conspiracy applied to the Trump legal scandal.

smartcooky · 5th December 2018, 05:43 PM

Pro tip for TDB

5 USC § 2302 Pub.L. 101-12
https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-...senate-bill/20

S.743 - Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2012
https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-...-bill/743/text

Read them

The Big Dog · 5th December 2018, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Pro tip for TDB

5 USC § 2302 Pub.L. 101-12
https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-...senate-bill/20

S.743 - Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2012
https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-...-bill/743/text

Read them

Cool beans, but I can’t figure out what the FBI’s raid on the uranium whistleblower has to do with what we are talking about.

Pro tip: those having nothing to do with anything I have been explaining. I get it tho: made ya look!

I Am The Scum · 5th December 2018, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Pro tip for TDB

5 USC § 2302 Pub.L. 101-12
https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-...senate-bill/20

S.743 - Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2012
https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-...-bill/743/text

Read them

He doesn't actually care about the leaks. He doesn't care about crime and punishment. He just wants "the enemy" to be punished. Any other apparent values he displays are merely a dressing-up of his enmity.

plague311 · 5th December 2018, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

educating folks on what a specious nit picking objection you have raised?

Yeah, pretty much there.

TBD is launching dingers, and y'all are bragging that you got a first down.

Touchdown TBD!

Holy ****** I figured it out. That's the final clue. You aren't even playing the same GAME as everyone else. 24D Chess!

Seriously though, those two sayings don't belong to the same sport.

fishbob · 5th December 2018, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

educating folks on what a specious nit picking objection you have raised?

Yeah, pretty much there.

TBD is launching dingers, and y'all are bragging that you got a first down.

Touchdown TBD!

Is that what you kids are calling it these days? Anyway, it should be curable with prompt medical treatment.

tyr_13 · 5th December 2018, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

Trump make an intelligent or honest argument? Surely ye jest. He mostly whines and lies.

Trump defender, not Trump.

I'm guessing that at some point Trump has made an intelligent argument, and here is where one would normally talk about a 'stopped clock' being right twice a day (or one running backward four times), but Trump is more like a digital clock that's been made to read out 'BOOB'.

He inadvertently makes honest arguments all the time; they just show him to be a truly depraved person. He loves the Saudis because they pay him millions, for example.

Stacko · 5th December 2018, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by I Am The Scum

He doesn't actually care about the leaks. He doesn't care about crime and punishment. He just wants "the enemy" to be punished. Any other apparent values he displays are merely a dressing-up of his enmity.

It's the core of Trumpism.

portlandatheist · 5th December 2018, 09:46 PM

On the Rachel Maddow show tonight, she asked an important question: Trump has always bent over backwards to protect Michael Flynn. Obama told him he was trouble, as did everybody else. When it became impossible to keep him on board, he pressured Comey and others to "let it go". Ever since then, it has been radio silence, no nick names or anything, even after the revelations of this week. Why?

The Great Zaganza · 5th December 2018, 10:11 PM

From what we know, Flynn really shouldn't get off scot-free: he got caught being a paid foreign lobbyist and just had to rat some others out to be no worse off.
I hope that at least his reputation is tanked and he didn't get to keep the Turkish money.

Skeptic Ginger · 5th December 2018, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by Stacko

It's the core of Trumpism.

That is depressing to read.

Skeptic Ginger · 5th December 2018, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

From what we know, Flynn really shouldn't get off scot-free: he got caught being a paid foreign lobbyist and just had to rat some others out to be no worse off.
I hope that at least his reputation is tanked and he didn't get to keep the Turkish money.

I hope he's remembered he was a general and he's embarrassed and remorseful for his own actions during and after the Trump campaign.

Cain · 6th December 2018, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by plague311

Holy ****** I figured it out. That's the final clue. You aren't even playing the same GAME as everyone else. 24D Chess!

Seriously though, those two sayings don't belong to the same sport.

Whatever. You can't deal with the fact his touchdowns have all been grand slams. That's TWO buttermilk pancakes, TWO eggs sunny-side up, TWO strips of bacon, TWO sausage links, hash browns, AND coffee.

Aridas · 6th December 2018, 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by Cain

Whatever. You can't deal with the fact his touchdowns have all been grand slams. That's TWO buttermilk pancakes, TWO eggs sunny-side up, TWO strips of bacon, TWO sausage links, hash browns, AND coffee.

And he has that with TWO scoops of ice cream for dessert?

CapelDodger · 6th December 2018, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I hope he's remembered he was a general and he's embarrassed and remorseful for his own actions during and after the Trump campaign.

Very droll.

CapelDodger · 6th December 2018, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by Aridas

And he has that with TWO scoops of ice cream for dessert?

Yup, and all of it smothered in ketchup. Mmmm, sweet sweet ketchup ...

fagin · 6th December 2018, 08:27 AM

"Mueller is recommending that Michael Flynn be given no jail time because of his “substantial assistance” to the special counsel inquiry."

Could be interesting.

https://www.newstatesman.com/world/n...HuzpwHlgyirkK8

The_Animus · 6th December 2018, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by timhau

"Curious" as to why sensible people don't use the ignore function on trolls.

Originally Posted by tyr_13

Because we have a troll president, supported by other trolls, and we have even non-trolls supporting them with the same troll arguments.

Their arguments and views are those we have to deal with. I understand there is the balance of giving them credence by addressing them at all, and not allowing bad/stupid/irrational/hateful/utterly craven ideas to go unchallenged, but the former ship has sailed with them gaining political power.

Do you see any Trump defender making any arguments substantially better? The only ones I can find are those that address only the accusations against Trump that are not supported or have evidence against them, and even then those people tend to then lump all accusations against Trump in with the weak ones.

People here can't seem to help themselves. The trolls are playing by a different set of rules. If their posts provoke a reaction from the libs or they control the conversation by distracting/diverting the conversation to what they're talking about instead of what's actually important and relevant then they've won. It doesn't matter if what they post is factually wrong, conspiracy theory, partisan bias, or hypocrisy. It doesn't matter if those who respond are correct, or mock them, or annihilate their argument. Those aren't the rules of their game. By their rules, almost any response means they've accomplished their goal and therefore they've won.

But people here see the posts and think about how wrong it is and how they have a great counter argument, and can't help but respond. I understand this feeling and it's hard not to respond myself and I occasionally still fail in that regard. But after seeing the same pattern over and over I can come to no other conclusion.

'Those first 100 mouthfuls of dirt didn't taste very good, maybe the next one will taste better'

For the foreseeable future people will continue to eat mouthfuls of dirt and the trolls will continue to win their game.

plague311 · 6th December 2018, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by Cain

Whatever. You can't deal with the fact his touchdowns have all been grand slams. That's TWO buttermilk pancakes, TWO eggs sunny-side up, TWO strips of bacon, TWO sausage links, hash browns, AND coffee.

I had a mouthful of coffee, while working on a customers laptop when I read this...testing my abilities.

I could really use a grand slam as well.

Paul2 · 6th December 2018, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by The_Animus

People here can't seem to help themselves. The trolls are playing by a different set of rules. If their posts provoke a reaction from the libs or they control the conversation by distracting/diverting the conversation to what they're talking about instead of what's actually important and relevant then they've won. It doesn't matter if what they post is factually wrong, conspiracy theory, partisan bias, or hypocrisy. It doesn't matter if those who respond are correct, or mock them, or annihilate their argument. Those aren't the rules of their game. By their rules, almost any response means they've accomplished their goal and therefore they've won.

But people here see the posts and think about how wrong it is and how they have a great counter argument, and can't help but respond. I understand this feeling and it's hard not to respond myself and I occasionally still fail in that regard. But after seeing the same pattern over and over I can come to no other conclusion.

'Those first 100 mouthfuls of dirt didn't taste very good, maybe the next one will taste better'

For the foreseeable future people will continue to eat mouthfuls of dirt and the trolls will continue to win their game.

I use taking apart absurd posts to practice my logical thinking.

Paul2 · 6th December 2018, 09:17 AM

On the one hand, Rachel Maddow implied but didn't come right out and say that Trump must not be ragging on Michael Flynn because Trump is smart enough (for once) to not mess around with something that could be dangerous to him.

On the other hand, can't we infer that Flynn, despite all his suspicious contacts with the Russians, wasn't involved in collusion because wouldn't Mueller have included charges related to collusion in the indictment he just filed? And, how could it be that Flynn didn't collude, given his central position in dealings with Russia?

Imhotep · 6th December 2018, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by The_Animus

People here can't seem to help themselves. The trolls are playing by a different set of rules. If their posts provoke a reaction from the libs or they control the conversation by distracting/diverting the conversation to what they're talking about instead of what's actually important and relevant then they've won. It doesn't matter if what they post is factually wrong, conspiracy theory, partisan bias, or hypocrisy. It doesn't matter if those who respond are correct, or mock them, or annihilate their argument. Those aren't the rules of their game. By their rules, almost any response means they've accomplished their goal and therefore they've won.

But people here see the posts and think about how wrong it is and how they have a great counter argument, and can't help but respond. I understand this feeling and it's hard not to respond myself and I occasionally still fail in that regard. But after seeing the same pattern over and over I can come to no other conclusion.

'Those first 100 mouthfuls of dirt didn't taste very good, maybe the next one will taste better'

For the foreseeable future people will continue to eat mouthfuls of dirt and the trolls will continue to win their game.

I agree except with the part about not responding. If 40% of the voters in this country actually buy into the troll logic, they absolutely should be responded to - as thoroughly and directly as possible, laying out why they are wrong, or why their logic is invalid.

acbytesla · 6th December 2018, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza

From what we know, Flynn really shouldn't get off scot-free: he got caught being a paid foreign lobbyist and just had to rat some others out to be no worse off.
I hope that at least his reputation is tanked and he didn't get to keep the Turkish money.

No he shouldn't. No question in my mind and every career military officer I've heard speak about Flynn. Flynn betrayed his country. I heard Colonel Peters on MSNBC talking about Flynn. Someone he has known Flynn for 30 years. He said Flynn was a great soldier and someone he liked personally, but who betrayed his country.

His opinion was that military officers know better and should be held to a higher standard. Peters said he was shocked when he heard about Flynn working for Russia. But given how often Flynn met with Mueller he believed he came totally clean and gave Mueller EVERYTHING he had.

That is the only reason I believe he got off.

acbytesla · 6th December 2018, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

I hope he's remembered he was a general and he's embarrassed and remorseful for his own actions during and after the Trump campaign.

I hope he's remembered as the key person who took down Trump. That he realized that he had made a huge mistake and he was trying to make amends to the country that he had once served faithfully.

The Big Dog · 6th December 2018, 10:04 AM

What is really intriguing is that Mueller and his team went to the bother of quoting extensively from the WaPo article, going so far as to say that the author (who is neither a lawyer, prosecutor nor judge) speculated that Flynn violated the Logan Act.

They never tried to tie that up, and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Someone stroking CIA's paper boy's ego for some reason, hmmm?

Belz... · 6th December 2018, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

What is really intriguing is that Mueller and his team went to the bother of quoting extensively from the WaPo article, going so far as to say that the author (who is neither a lawyer, prosecutor nor judge) speculated that Flynn violated the Logan Act.

They never tried to tie that up, and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Someone stroking CIA's paper boy's ego for some reason, hmmm?

Things are getting a bit hot, aren't they TBD?

JoeMorgue · 6th December 2018, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

I hope he's remembered as the key person who took down Trump. That he realized that he had made a huge mistake and he was trying to make amends to the country that he had once served faithfully.

I can, within reason, respect that not matter the politics of the matter for a person who's served their country as long as Flynn has "taking down the President" is a hard step to take and something he considered a last resort.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 6th December 2018, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Paul2

On the other hand, can't we infer that Flynn, despite all his suspicious contacts with the Russians, wasn't involved in collusion because wouldn't Mueller have included charges related to collusion in the indictment he just filed?

You're assuming that Mueller charged him on everything that he could charge him on. The question, if that is the case, is why did Flynn cooperate as thoroughly as he did in order to avoid a sentence of no more than 6 months? And why is Mueller happy to charge him now if he may be required at a later date to provide more information or testify?

A reasonable explanation is that Mueller has other charges against Flynn that he is choosing not to charge as part of a plea deal, and if Flynn breaks that deal then Mueller can bring those other charges.

The Big Dog · 6th December 2018, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Paul2

On the one hand, Rachel Maddow implied but didn't come right out and say that Trump must not be ragging on Michael Flynn because Trump is smart enough (for once) to not mess around with something that could be dangerous to him.

On the other hand, can't we infer that Flynn, despite all his suspicious contacts with the Russians, wasn't involved in collusion because wouldn't Mueller have included charges related to collusion in the indictment he just filed? And, how could it be that Flynn didn't collude, given his central position in dealings with Russia?

what are the suspicious contacts with the Russians you are referring to?

A list if you please...

JoeMorgue · 6th December 2018, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

what are the suspicious contacts with the Russians you are referring to?

A list if you please...

Water is wet you say? I demand you provide me a list of every body of water on the planet that is wet before we move forward. I'll wait.

The Big Dog · 6th December 2018, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Paul2

On the one hand, Rachel Maddow implied but didn't come right out and say that Trump must not be ragging on Michael Flynn because Trump is smart enough (for once) to not mess around with something that could be dangerous to him.

On the other hand, can't we infer that Flynn, despite all his suspicious contacts with the Russians, wasn't involved in collusion because wouldn't Mueller have included charges related to collusion in the indictment he just filed? And, how could it be that Flynn didn't collude, given his central position in dealings with Russia?

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

what are the suspicious contacts with the Russians you are referring to?

A list if you please...

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Water is wet you say? I demand you provide me a list of every body of water on the planet that is wet before we move forward. I'll wait.

Oh dear, did you believe it was unreasonable for me to ask this question about a claim made in another person's post?

Huh....

plague311 · 6th December 2018, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Imhotep

I agree except with the part about not responding. If 40% of the voters in this country actually buy into the troll logic, they absolutely should be responded to - as thoroughly and directly as possible, laying out why they are wrong, or why their logic is invalid.

My two cents on it is I don't really see how the trolls are "winning". Their goal is to get under the skin, or needlessly irritate their "opposition".

Does anyone here actually get flustered, angry, or upset at statements that disagree with yours? I can say I certainly don't.

acbytesla · 6th December 2018, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

I can, within reason, respect that not matter the politics of the matter for a person who's served their country as long as Flynn has "taking down the President" is a hard step to take and something he considered a last resort.

It may not be what he hoped for when he started his career. But it may be the most important way he served this nation

JoeMorgue · 6th December 2018, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by acbytesla

It may not be what he hoped for when he started his career. But it may be the most important way he served this nation

Indeed. "I supported the President, even protected, him as long as I could, far longer than people think I should have, past the even the point it was legal because I honestly thought it was the best thing for the country, but in the end I had to do what was right." isn't a good thing per se, but it's understandable, even respectable in a way.

Imhotep · 6th December 2018, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by The Big Dog

Oh dear, did you believe it was unreasonable for me to ask this question about a claim made in another person's post?

Huh....

I'll start the list.

Sergey Kislyak

The Big Dog · 6th December 2018, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Indeed. "I supported the President, even protected, him as long as I could, far longer than people think I should have, past the even the point it was legal because I honestly thought it was the best thing for the country, but in the end I had to do what was right." isn't a good thing per se, but it's understandable, even respectable in a way.

golly, I hope that it is not unreasonable to get a source for that quote, because i have reviewed his statements and it does not appear that he said that.

Thanks a bunch!

5th December 2018, 04:40 PM	#401
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 24,155	Originally Posted by The Big Dog educating folks on what a specious nit picking objection you have raised? Yeah, pretty much there. TBD is launching dingers, and y'all are bragging that you got a first down. Touchdown TBD! That's the spirit.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

5th December 2018, 05:00 PM	#402
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 40,108	Originally Posted by The Big Dog Damn right, another good post by you! molehill: hey this guy maybe told not fully consistent things about this perfectly legal thing he did. Prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law! 0 to 14 days in jail. Mountain: Hey what about the CIA leaks? Hello? Anyone home? Crickets. Anyone heard of Deep Throat?
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

5th December 2018, 05:09 PM	#403
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 21,328	Originally Posted by tyr_13 Because we have a troll president, supported by other trolls, and we have even non-trolls supporting them with the same troll arguments. Their arguments and views are those we have to deal with. I understand there is the balance of giving them credence by addressing them at all, and not allowing bad/stupid/irrational/hateful/utterly craven ideas to go unchallenged, but the former ship has sailed with them gaining political power. Do you see any Trump defender making any arguments substantially better? The only ones I can find are those that address only the accusations against Trump that are not supported or have evidence against them, and even then those people tend to then lump all accusations against Trump in with the weak ones. Trump make an intelligent or honest argument? Surely ye jest. He mostly whines and lies.
	__________________ “ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume

5th December 2018, 05:27 PM	#404
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 11,401	Originally Posted by plague311 I believe he was being facetious. I always love the, "If you don't think like I do, then YOU aren't a skeptic." What's the name for that? Something about the Scottish? Lol Show your evidence TBD, otherwise you know the way to the CT forum. A "No True Skeptic" fallacy?
	__________________ #THEYAREUS The Mueller Report must be released to Congress in full - If Trump has nothing to hide, then he should also have nothing to fear!

5th December 2018, 05:43 PM	#406
smartcooky Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Nelson, New Zealand Posts: 11,401	Pro tip for TDB 5 USC § 2302 Pub.L. 101-12 https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-...senate-bill/20 S.743 - Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2012 https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-...-bill/743/text Read them
	__________________ #THEYAREUS The Mueller Report must be released to Congress in full - If Trump has nothing to hide, then he should also have nothing to fear!

5th December 2018, 05:36 PM	#405
I Am The Scum Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3,813	"What Flynn pleaded guilty to was not a crime" is basically the "no planes" conspiracy applied to the Trump legal scandal.

5th December 2018, 06:16 PM	#407
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Originally Posted by smartcooky Pro tip for TDB 5 USC § 2302 Pub.L. 101-12 https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-...senate-bill/20 S.743 - Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2012 https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-...-bill/743/text Read them Cool beans, but I can’t figure out what the FBI’s raid on the uranium whistleblower has to do with what we are talking about. Pro tip: those having nothing to do with anything I have been explaining. I get it tho: made ya look!
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742

5th December 2018, 06:31 PM	#408
I Am The Scum Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3,813	Originally Posted by smartcooky Pro tip for TDB 5 USC § 2302 Pub.L. 101-12 https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-...senate-bill/20 S.743 - Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act of 2012 https://www.congress.gov/bill/112th-...-bill/743/text Read them He doesn't actually care about the leaks. He doesn't care about crime and punishment. He just wants "the enemy" to be punished. Any other apparent values he displays are merely a dressing-up of his enmity.

5th December 2018, 06:36 PM	#409
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 5,017	Originally Posted by The Big Dog educating folks on what a specious nit picking objection you have raised? Yeah, pretty much there. TBD is launching dingers, and y'all are bragging that you got a first down. Touchdown TBD! Holy ****** I figured it out. That's the final clue. You aren't even playing the same GAME as everyone else. 24D Chess! Seriously though, those two sayings don't belong to the same sport.
	__________________ "All acts performed in the world begin in the imagination."--Barbara Grizzuti Harrison “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

5th December 2018, 07:04 PM	#410
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 7,008	Originally Posted by The Big Dog educating folks on what a specious nit picking objection you have raised? Yeah, pretty much there. TBD is launching dingers, and y'all are bragging that you got a first down. Touchdown TBD! Is that what you kids are calling it these days? Anyway, it should be curable with prompt medical treatment.
	__________________ "When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder. "It looks like the saddest, most crookedest candy corn in an otherwise normal bag of candy corns." Stormy Daniels I hate bigots.

5th December 2018, 07:10 PM	#411
tyr_13 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 15,964	Originally Posted by acbytesla Trump make an intelligent or honest argument? Surely ye jest. He mostly whines and lies. Trump defender, not Trump. I'm guessing that at some point Trump has made an intelligent argument, and here is where one would normally talk about a 'stopped clock' being right twice a day (or one running backward four times), but Trump is more like a digital clock that's been made to read out 'BOOB'. He inadvertently makes honest arguments all the time; they just show him to be a truly depraved person. He loves the Saudis because they pay him millions, for example.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

5th December 2018, 09:45 PM	#412
Stacko Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 10,837	Originally Posted by I Am The Scum He doesn't actually care about the leaks. He doesn't care about crime and punishment. He just wants "the enemy" to be punished. Any other apparent values he displays are merely a dressing-up of his enmity. It's the core of Trumpism.

5th December 2018, 09:46 PM	#413
portlandatheist Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 3,039	On the Rachel Maddow show tonight, she asked an important question: Trump has always bent over backwards to protect Michael Flynn. Obama told him he was trouble, as did everybody else. When it became impossible to keep him on board, he pressured Comey and others to "let it go". Ever since then, it has been radio silence, no nick names or anything, even after the revelations of this week. Why?

5th December 2018, 10:11 PM	#414
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 7,978	From what we know, Flynn really shouldn't get off scot-free: he got caught being a paid foreign lobbyist and just had to rat some others out to be no worse off. I hope that at least his reputation is tanked and he didn't get to keep the Turkish money.
	__________________ Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.

5th December 2018, 11:48 PM	#415
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 73,418	Originally Posted by Stacko It's the core of Trumpism. That is depressing to read.
	__________________ Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

5th December 2018, 11:50 PM	#416
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 73,418	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza From what we know, Flynn really shouldn't get off scot-free: he got caught being a paid foreign lobbyist and just had to rat some others out to be no worse off. I hope that at least his reputation is tanked and he didn't get to keep the Turkish money. I hope he's remembered he was a general and he's embarrassed and remorseful for his own actions during and after the Trump campaign.
	__________________ Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

6th December 2018, 12:17 AM	#417
Cain Straussian Join Date: May 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 12,785	Originally Posted by plague311 Holy ****** I figured it out. That's the final clue. You aren't even playing the same GAME as everyone else. 24D Chess! Seriously though, those two sayings don't belong to the same sport. Whatever. You can't deal with the fact his touchdowns have all been grand slams. That's TWO buttermilk pancakes, TWO eggs sunny-side up, TWO strips of bacon, TWO sausage links, hash browns, AND coffee.
	__________________ April 13th, 2018: Ranb: I can't think of anything useful you contributed to a thread in the last few years.

6th December 2018, 02:23 AM	#418
Aridas Crazy Little Green Dragon Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,985	Originally Posted by Cain Whatever. You can't deal with the fact his touchdowns have all been grand slams. That's TWO buttermilk pancakes, TWO eggs sunny-side up, TWO strips of bacon, TWO sausage links, hash browns, AND coffee. And he has that with TWO scoops of ice cream for dessert?
	__________________ So sayeth the crazy little dragon.

6th December 2018, 08:09 AM	#419
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 24,347	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger I hope he's remembered he was a general and he's embarrassed and remorseful for his own actions during and after the Trump campaign. Very droll.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

6th December 2018, 08:10 AM	#420
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 24,347	Originally Posted by Aridas And he has that with TWO scoops of ice cream for dessert? Yup, and all of it smothered in ketchup. Mmmm, sweet sweet ketchup ...
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

6th December 2018, 08:27 AM	#421
fagin Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: As far away from casebro as possible. Posts: 7,070	"Mueller is recommending that Michael Flynn be given no jail time because of his “substantial assistance” to the special counsel inquiry." Could be interesting. https://www.newstatesman.com/world/n...HuzpwHlgyirkK8
	__________________ There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda

6th December 2018, 08:51 AM	#422
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,031	Originally Posted by timhau "Curious" as to why sensible people don't use the ignore function on trolls. Originally Posted by tyr_13 Because we have a troll president, supported by other trolls, and we have even non-trolls supporting them with the same troll arguments. Their arguments and views are those we have to deal with. I understand there is the balance of giving them credence by addressing them at all, and not allowing bad/stupid/irrational/hateful/utterly craven ideas to go unchallenged, but the former ship has sailed with them gaining political power. Do you see any Trump defender making any arguments substantially better? The only ones I can find are those that address only the accusations against Trump that are not supported or have evidence against them, and even then those people tend to then lump all accusations against Trump in with the weak ones. People here can't seem to help themselves. The trolls are playing by a different set of rules. If their posts provoke a reaction from the libs or they control the conversation by distracting/diverting the conversation to what they're talking about instead of what's actually important and relevant then they've won. It doesn't matter if what they post is factually wrong, conspiracy theory, partisan bias, or hypocrisy. It doesn't matter if those who respond are correct, or mock them, or annihilate their argument. Those aren't the rules of their game. By their rules, almost any response means they've accomplished their goal and therefore they've won. But people here see the posts and think about how wrong it is and how they have a great counter argument, and can't help but respond. I understand this feeling and it's hard not to respond myself and I occasionally still fail in that regard. But after seeing the same pattern over and over I can come to no other conclusion. 'Those first 100 mouthfuls of dirt didn't taste very good, maybe the next one will taste better' For the foreseeable future people will continue to eat mouthfuls of dirt and the trolls will continue to win their game.
The_Animus Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,031	__________________ Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them.

6th December 2018, 09:06 AM	#423
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 5,017	Originally Posted by Cain Whatever. You can't deal with the fact his touchdowns have all been grand slams. That's TWO buttermilk pancakes, TWO eggs sunny-side up, TWO strips of bacon, TWO sausage links, hash browns, AND coffee. I had a mouthful of coffee, while working on a customers laptop when I read this...testing my abilities. I could really use a grand slam as well.
	__________________ "All acts performed in the world begin in the imagination."--Barbara Grizzuti Harrison “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

6th December 2018, 09:12 AM	#424
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,091	Originally Posted by The_Animus People here can't seem to help themselves. The trolls are playing by a different set of rules. If their posts provoke a reaction from the libs or they control the conversation by distracting/diverting the conversation to what they're talking about instead of what's actually important and relevant then they've won. It doesn't matter if what they post is factually wrong, conspiracy theory, partisan bias, or hypocrisy. It doesn't matter if those who respond are correct, or mock them, or annihilate their argument. Those aren't the rules of their game. By their rules, almost any response means they've accomplished their goal and therefore they've won. But people here see the posts and think about how wrong it is and how they have a great counter argument, and can't help but respond. I understand this feeling and it's hard not to respond myself and I occasionally still fail in that regard. But after seeing the same pattern over and over I can come to no other conclusion. 'Those first 100 mouthfuls of dirt didn't taste very good, maybe the next one will taste better' For the foreseeable future people will continue to eat mouthfuls of dirt and the trolls will continue to win their game. I use taking apart absurd posts to practice my logical thinking.
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,091	__________________ It's nice to be nice to the nice. Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell

6th December 2018, 09:17 AM	#425
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,091	On the one hand, Rachel Maddow implied but didn't come right out and say that Trump must not be ragging on Michael Flynn because Trump is smart enough (for once) to not mess around with something that could be dangerous to him. On the other hand, can't we infer that Flynn, despite all his suspicious contacts with the Russians, wasn't involved in collusion because wouldn't Mueller have included charges related to collusion in the indictment he just filed? And, how could it be that Flynn didn't collude, given his central position in dealings with Russia?
Paul2 Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 5,091	__________________ It's nice to be nice to the nice. Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell

6th December 2018, 09:27 AM	#426
Imhotep Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: Midwest USA Posts: 1,023	Originally Posted by The_Animus People here can't seem to help themselves. The trolls are playing by a different set of rules. If their posts provoke a reaction from the libs or they control the conversation by distracting/diverting the conversation to what they're talking about instead of what's actually important and relevant then they've won. It doesn't matter if what they post is factually wrong, conspiracy theory, partisan bias, or hypocrisy. It doesn't matter if those who respond are correct, or mock them, or annihilate their argument. Those aren't the rules of their game. By their rules, almost any response means they've accomplished their goal and therefore they've won. But people here see the posts and think about how wrong it is and how they have a great counter argument, and can't help but respond. I understand this feeling and it's hard not to respond myself and I occasionally still fail in that regard. But after seeing the same pattern over and over I can come to no other conclusion. 'Those first 100 mouthfuls of dirt didn't taste very good, maybe the next one will taste better' For the foreseeable future people will continue to eat mouthfuls of dirt and the trolls will continue to win their game. I agree except with the part about not responding. If 40% of the voters in this country actually buy into the troll logic, they absolutely should be responded to - as thoroughly and directly as possible, laying out why they are wrong, or why their logic is invalid.

6th December 2018, 09:37 AM	#427
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 21,328	Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza From what we know, Flynn really shouldn't get off scot-free: he got caught being a paid foreign lobbyist and just had to rat some others out to be no worse off. I hope that at least his reputation is tanked and he didn't get to keep the Turkish money. No he shouldn't. No question in my mind and every career military officer I've heard speak about Flynn. Flynn betrayed his country. I heard Colonel Peters on MSNBC talking about Flynn. Someone he has known Flynn for 30 years. He said Flynn was a great soldier and someone he liked personally, but who betrayed his country. His opinion was that military officers know better and should be held to a higher standard. Peters said he was shocked when he heard about Flynn working for Russia. But given how often Flynn met with Mueller he believed he came totally clean and gave Mueller EVERYTHING he had. That is the only reason I believe he got off.
	__________________ “ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume

6th December 2018, 09:41 AM	#428
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 21,328	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger I hope he's remembered he was a general and he's embarrassed and remorseful for his own actions during and after the Trump campaign. I hope he's remembered as the key person who took down Trump. That he realized that he had made a huge mistake and he was trying to make amends to the country that he had once served faithfully.
	__________________ “ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ” ― David Hume

6th December 2018, 10:04 AM	#429
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	What is really intriguing is that Mueller and his team went to the bother of quoting extensively from the WaPo article, going so far as to say that the author (who is neither a lawyer, prosecutor nor judge) speculated that Flynn violated the Logan Act. They never tried to tie that up, and it sticks out like a sore thumb. Someone stroking CIA's paper boy's ego for some reason, hmmm?
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742

6th December 2018, 10:07 AM	#430
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 81,554	Originally Posted by The Big Dog What is really intriguing is that Mueller and his team went to the bother of quoting extensively from the WaPo article, going so far as to say that the author (who is neither a lawyer, prosecutor nor judge) speculated that Flynn violated the Logan Act. They never tried to tie that up, and it sticks out like a sore thumb. Someone stroking CIA's paper boy's ego for some reason, hmmm? Things are getting a bit hot, aren't they TBD?
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

6th December 2018, 10:09 AM	#431
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 17,551	Originally Posted by acbytesla I hope he's remembered as the key person who took down Trump. That he realized that he had made a huge mistake and he was trying to make amends to the country that he had once served faithfully. I can, within reason, respect that not matter the politics of the matter for a person who's served their country as long as Flynn has "taking down the President" is a hard step to take and something he considered a last resort.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC Last edited by JoeMorgue; 6th December 2018 at 10:14 AM.

6th December 2018, 10:13 AM	#432
Squeegee Beckenheim Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 24,155	Originally Posted by Paul2 On the other hand, can't we infer that Flynn, despite all his suspicious contacts with the Russians, wasn't involved in collusion because wouldn't Mueller have included charges related to collusion in the indictment he just filed? You're assuming that Mueller charged him on everything that he could charge him on. The question, if that is the case, is why did Flynn cooperate as thoroughly as he did in order to avoid a sentence of no more than 6 months? And why is Mueller happy to charge him now if he may be required at a later date to provide more information or testify? A reasonable explanation is that Mueller has other charges against Flynn that he is choosing not to charge as part of a plea deal, and if Flynn breaks that deal then Mueller can bring those other charges.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

6th December 2018, 10:15 AM	#433
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Originally Posted by Paul2 On the one hand, Rachel Maddow implied but didn't come right out and say that Trump must not be ragging on Michael Flynn because Trump is smart enough (for once) to not mess around with something that could be dangerous to him. On the other hand, can't we infer that Flynn, despite all his suspicious contacts with the Russians, wasn't involved in collusion because wouldn't Mueller have included charges related to collusion in the indictment he just filed? And, how could it be that Flynn didn't collude, given his central position in dealings with Russia? what are the suspicious contacts with the Russians you are referring to? A list if you please...
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742

6th December 2018, 10:17 AM	#434
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 17,551	Originally Posted by The Big Dog what are the suspicious contacts with the Russians you are referring to? A list if you please... Water is wet you say? I demand you provide me a list of every body of water on the planet that is wet before we move forward. I'll wait.
	__________________ - "Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset - "Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal - "To the best of my knowledge the only thing philosophy has ever proven is that Descartes could think." - SMBC

6th December 2018, 10:23 AM	#435
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742	Originally Posted by Paul2 On the one hand, Rachel Maddow implied but didn't come right out and say that Trump must not be ragging on Michael Flynn because Trump is smart enough (for once) to not mess around with something that could be dangerous to him. On the other hand, can't we infer that Flynn, despite all his suspicious contacts with the Russians, wasn't involved in collusion because wouldn't Mueller have included charges related to collusion in the indictment he just filed? And, how could it be that Flynn didn't collude, given his central position in dealings with Russia? Originally Posted by The Big Dog what are the suspicious contacts with the Russians you are referring to? A list if you please... Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Water is wet you say? I demand you provide me a list of every body of water on the planet that is wet before we move forward. I'll wait. Oh dear, did you believe it was unreasonable for me to ask this question about a claim made in another person's post? Huh....
The Big Dog Guest Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 29,742