[Merged] Neil DeGrasse Tyson accused of rape/Three women accuse NdGT of sexual misconduct - Page 6

dann · 3rd December 2018, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Over thirty years ago..

I hope this doesn't come off as rape apologetics, but I was thinking about how much I can remember clearly from 1984-ish. The answer is not a damn thing. I mean, that's why we have statutes of limitations, right? A guy in their twenties is also doing a lot more than a more mature gentleman who may in fact recall distant events more accurately.

Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here

It's not so much a question of faulty memory, I think, and being a woo obviously makes her unreliable if we are talking about cosmology, but we're not. When she ”accused him of telling students they could pass Astronomy 101 if they gave him a blow job,” you would expect others to come forward to back up her claim. Nobody has, apparently.
My guess, based on her own account, is that she made it all up – but not necessarily with ill intent. When I was in college, a student had a mental breakdown and accused a teaching assistant of having impregnated her. This may be a similar story.

mgidm86 · 5th December 2018, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Thermal

Over thirty years ago..

I hope this doesn't come off as rape apologetics, but I was thinking about how much I can remember clearly from 1984-ish. The answer is not a damn thing. I mean, that's why we have statutes of limitations, right? A guy in their twenties is also doing a lot more than a more mature gentleman who may in fact recall distant events more accurately.

Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here

I don't know how other people should perceive them but I assume it's bullcrap until evidence is presented. I have been falsely accused of harassment before (and proved it was false), and I'm not even a rich and famous celebrity. It can happen to anyone and it may happen to someone else in this forum one day. I do not wish it on anyone.

In these days of "victimhood", fingerpointing and overly sensitive people in general, I am far from taking anyone at their word on this.

"#Metoo! I'm a victim too, I must be!" is about where I'm at with all this. Show evidence or shut the f up.

The medias reporting of anyone with a claim is, I think, detrimental to the overall #metoo thing and is where a lot of my attitude comes from, not my own personal experience. Troubling times.

kedo1981 · 5th December 2018, 04:46 PM

"Never **** crazy"
But they are always the best ****.

theprestige · 5th December 2018, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by kedo1981

"Never **** crazy"
But they are always the best ****.

Not actually true. I've had more crazy partners than not, and they were all inferior to the love of a sane partner.

Actually, I take that back. I've had exactly two of each. But the sane ones win the bedroom bingo sweepstakes hands down.

Brainster · 6th December 2018, 12:16 AM

Make it four women:

Quote:

Now a fourth woman has told BuzzFeed News her experience of sexual harassment from Tyson. In January 2010, she recalled, she joined her then-boyfriend at a holiday party for employees of the American Museum of Natural History. Tyson, its most famous employee, drunkenly approached her, she said, making sexual jokes and propositioning her to join him alone in his office. In a 2014 email shared with BuzzFeed News, she described the incident to her own employer in order to shoot down a proposed collaboration with Tyson.

baron · 6th December 2018, 03:22 AM

Jesus wept, if I detailed every incidence in which a woman had made lewd suggestions to me it would take me until 2050 (and I'm uglier than a hog). It's called life, you idiot woman, so suck on that.

applecorped · 6th December 2018, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by baron

..you idiot woman, so suck on that.

Stellar defense of Tyson there

casebro · 6th December 2018, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by baron

Jesus wept, if I detailed every incidence in which a woman had made lewd suggestions to me it would take me until 2050 (and I'm uglier than a hog). It's called life, you idiot woman, so suck on that.

Yeah dat. Propositioned at a party? It's called "freedom of expression".

I guess some people think it is only reasonable to meet potential mates in Sunday school.

theprestige · 6th December 2018, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Make it four women:

That seems like a solid reason to decline working with Tyson, but doesn't rise to the level of sexual misconduct, in my opinion.

Ziggurat · 6th December 2018, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by baron

It's called life, you idiot woman, so suck on that.

Telling her to suck on it is what got Tyson in trouble.

casebro · 6th December 2018, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Telling her to suck on it is what got Tyson in trouble.

And other women like the taste. How is a guy supposed to know unless he asks?

dann · 6th December 2018, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Make it four women:

Now a fourth woman has told BuzzFeed News her experience of sexual harassment from Tyson. In January 2010, she recalled, she joined her then-boyfriend at a holiday party for employees of the American Museum of Natural History. Tyson, its most famous employee, drunkenly approached her, she said, making sexual jokes and propositioning her to join him alone in his office. In a 2014 email shared with BuzzFeed News, she described the incident to her own employer in order to shoot down a proposed collaboration with Tyson.

To be absolutely sure I understood it correctly, I looked up proposition, but I still don't see any real problem ... unless his jokes were really bad. He propositioned, she declined.

baron · 6th December 2018, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

Telling her to suck on it is what got Tyson in trouble.

I think he merely suggested it.

dann · 6th December 2018, 01:17 PM

It just occurred to me that we have this move in salsa rueda Cubana:

Quote:

Festival el principe bueno y malo:
“On the 4th count, perform an Enchufala Y Dame, and slap the follower you are with gently on their buttocks while moving to the next follower. Followers can try avoid being “tagged.””
El principe bueno + el principe malo triple: http://www.salsalust.com/move.php?id=11

Principe Malo (Ruedawiki)

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

I've never heard any complaints about this, and I haven't been able to find any on the internet.

Brainster · 6th December 2018, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by theprestige

That seems like a solid reason to decline working with Tyson, but doesn't rise to the level of sexual misconduct, in my opinion.

Well, these days the standard seems to be that any unwanted sexual attention is verboten, and if you ask "How am I to know it's unwanted until I try a few lines?" you're part of the problem.

Ron_Tomkins · 18th December 2018, 08:55 AM

Amazingly, seems that no one in this forum is talking about this.

Four accusers so far. Out of all of them, the worst and most critical accusations is one of drugging and raping a woman.

This is a really disappointing one. Neil always struck me as a good person. If something as dark as this can be true, then who the hell can we trust?

baron · 18th December 2018, 08:58 AM

A few people are - http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ighlight=tyson

theprestige · 18th December 2018, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins

Amazingly, seems that no one in this forum is talking about this.

For whatever reason, the discussion is happening in the skeptical movement "sexual misconduct allegations" thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ations&page=61

Quote:

Four accusers so far. Out of all of them, the worst and most critical accusations is one of drugging and raping a woman.

This is a really disappointing one. Neil always struck me as a good person. If something as dark as this can be true, then who the hell can we trust?

Don't despair just yet. People make horrible accusations all the time. Sometimes they're true, sometimes not.

Also, if these accusations are causing you to reconsider trusting anyone, perhaps you should take a closer look at your emotional attachment to media personas. If nothing else, the Cosby thing should have driven home the lesson that "always struck me as a good person" isn't really a rational basis for assigning trust to a public figure.

baron · 18th December 2018, 09:14 AM

For the record, it's a lot of horse **** until proven.

Belz... · 18th December 2018, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by theprestige

For whatever reason, the discussion is happening in the skeptical movement "sexual misconduct allegations" thread:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ations&page=61

Don't despair just yet. People make horrible accusations all the time. Sometimes they're true, sometimes not.

Also, if these accusations are causing you to reconsider trusting anyone, perhaps you should take a closer look at your emotional attachment to media personas. If nothing else, the Cosby thing should have driven home the lesson that "always struck me as a good person" isn't really a rational basis for assigning trust to a public figure.

I think Ron's voicing frustrusation, and a bit of anguish: how about the people he knows personally and thinks are good people?

theprestige · 18th December 2018, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

I think Ron's voicing frustrusation, and a bit of anguish: how about the people he knows personally and thinks are good people?

Hopefully Ron doesn't think that the impression he gets from the public persona of a celebrity figure says anything at all about the trustworthiness of people he actually knows personally.

"People are saying the I ******* Love Science poster boy has done some bad things. Now I don't even know who my best friend of 20 years really is anymore!"

Mycroft · 18th December 2018, 12:31 PM

This is like the third thread I've seen on it here?

Ron_Tomkins · 19th December 2018, 07:45 AM

Thanks for the merge. I hadn't seen the other threads. Either way, I was a bit amazed to see none of those threads in the first page, which means that the discussion was abandoned even though this case is barely starting to heat up as we speak.

So far we got four accusers. The more accusers, the less likely that they are lying. I still hold some hope that this could be at the very least a misconstruction of some sort.

Klimax · 19th December 2018, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins

Thanks for the merge. I hadn't seen the other threads. Either way, I was a bit amazed to see none of those threads in the first page, which means that the discussion was abandoned even though this case is barely starting to heat up as we speak.

So far we got four accusers. The more accusers, the less likely that they are lying. I still hold some hope that this could be at the very least a misconstruction of some sort.

Or we are getting just copycats. There's enough time in between to doubt independence. And it goes both ways.(Like in some previous cases it prompted other real victims it can also prompt just more false accusations)

Skeptic Ginger · 19th December 2018, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins

Amazingly, seems that no one in this forum is talking about this.

Four accusers so far. Out of all of them, the worst and most critical accusations is one of drugging and raping a woman.

This is a really disappointing one. Neil always struck me as a good person. If something as dark as this can be true, then who the hell can we trust?

So you are assuming he's guilty?

He has a response to all of the accusations.

Skeptic Ginger · 19th December 2018, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins

Thanks for the merge. I hadn't seen the other threads. Either way, I was a bit amazed to see none of those threads in the first page, which means that the discussion was abandoned even though this case is barely starting to heat up as we speak.

So far we got four accusers. The more accusers, the less likely that they are lying. I still hold some hope that this could be at the very least a misconstruction of some sort.

Clues that multiple accusations are not stronger evidence than any of them individually: There is no pattern there.

The most credible one, maybe he put the moves on his partner. I didn't find that one all that egregious. It's not like he got aggressive. He may or may not have had sexual intentions but I'm not in the 'you can never date a coworker' camp.

As for the grad student affair, read Tyson's response. It's a more reasonable explanation than the accusation which there is no evidence Tyson was behaving that way in college.

angrysoba · 20th December 2018, 01:55 AM

It seems a new pink dwarf planet called Farout - on account of its distance from the Sun - has been discovered. I hope Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn’t go looking for it.

“I think I found it!”
“No, that’s my nipple!”

Ron_Tomkins · 20th December 2018, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

It seems a new pink dwarf planet called Farout - on account of its distance from the Sun - has been discovered. I hope Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn’t go looking for it.

“I think I found it!”
“No, that’s my nipple!”

Hahahahaha..... silly.

Ron_Tomkins · 20th December 2018, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

So you are assuming he's guilty?

He has a response to all of the accusations.

No. Actually that's my bad. I phrased the post incorrectly. I should have said "If true, then that would be really disappointing". Believe me, I wish nothing more than these accusations being false. But in the past, this has not been the case. Typically, one accusation comes out and the accuser says nothing or denies it. A second one comes out, same thing. Then a third..... by the time there's about four or more than four, then the accuser starts going like "Ok, lets run an investigation to find out what happened" or then starts to be more vocal and addresses the situation by saying "it's true that he did know the women but it didn't play the way they describe it".... and then at the end, when the heat has been raised enough, and there's lots of accusers and of articles describing what happened, plus the investigation; the accuser ends up having to admit that the accusers were actually right and apologizes. That is more or less how this has been playing out in the past.

This is why I'm having a bad feeling about this. Still, I'm hoping that in this case, it's not true.

Mycroft · 23rd December 2018, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins

This is why I'm having a bad feeling about this. Still, I'm hoping that in this case, it's not true.

In this case I'm inclined to give NDT the benefit of the doubt. Mostly.

The primary reason is that the new allegations don't fit the pattern of the old allegation. He stood accused of drugging and raping someone, but the other allegations are nothing like that and so don’t support that as a pattern of behavior.

The most credible allegation is from Ms Watson, the former assistant and driver. If NDT really told her she was too “distracting”, aka sexy, to be a producer, then he crossed a line. You’re just not allowed to deny someone a promotion because you find them too attractive and doubt your own self-control.

At the same time, I don’t think that rises to a career-killing revelation like the allegations against Cosby, Weinstein and Spacey are. If true, or even if just unable to be proven false, the cure should be more like a couple hours of mandated sensitivity training for the perpetuator and a modest but nice settlement for the victim.

pipelineaudio · 25th December 2018, 12:30 PM

Whoa, he worded at someone??? That's TERRIBLE! He should be shot immediately

HopDavid · 18th January 2019, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by smartcooky

Actually, in your rush to judgement, you didn't actually bother listening to what NDT said. When he said "....we from they" he wasn't claiming that Bush's "they" referred to all Muslims...he said "they" were the "Muslim fundamentalists", i.e, the terrorists.

Errrrr..... fundamentalists =/= terrorists.

Tyson was saying Arabic star names confounded the point Bush was trying to make. Stars named by Arabs does nothing to confound a slam against terrorists.

And did you notice that Tyson had admitted his error and apologized to Bush? Tyson's words:

Quote:

And I here publicly apologize to the President for casting his quote in the context of contrasting religions rather than as a poetic reference to the lost souls of Columbia.

You are almost as incompetent in reading as you are at math and physics.

Porpoise of Life · 19th January 2019, 05:25 AM

Tyson's been getting around.

dann · 19th January 2019, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Roboramma

I think there's another one.

There is: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=333605

3rd December 2018, 12:53 PM	#201
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,484	Originally Posted by Thermal Over thirty years ago.. I hope this doesn't come off as rape apologetics, but I was thinking about how much I can remember clearly from 1984-ish. The answer is not a damn thing. I mean, that's why we have statutes of limitations, right? A guy in their twenties is also doing a lot more than a more mature gentleman who may in fact recall distant events more accurately. Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here It's not so much a question of faulty memory, I think, and being a woo obviously makes her unreliable if we are talking about cosmology, but we're not. When she ”accused him of telling students they could pass Astronomy 101 if they gave him a blow job,” you would expect others to come forward to back up her claim. Nobody has, apparently. My guess, based on her own account, is that she made it all up – but not necessarily with ill intent. When I was in college, a student had a mental breakdown and accused a teaching assistant of having impregnated her. This may be a similar story.
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,484	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

5th December 2018, 03:47 PM	#202
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,049	Originally Posted by Thermal Over thirty years ago.. I hope this doesn't come off as rape apologetics, but I was thinking about how much I can remember clearly from 1984-ish. The answer is not a damn thing. I mean, that's why we have statutes of limitations, right? A guy in their twenties is also doing a lot more than a more mature gentleman who may in fact recall distant events more accurately. Should people making extremely distant claims be subjected to some sort of externally verifiable memory tests? Fumbling a little here I don't know how other people should perceive them but I assume it's bullcrap until evidence is presented. I have been falsely accused of harassment before (and proved it was false), and I'm not even a rich and famous celebrity. It can happen to anyone and it may happen to someone else in this forum one day. I do not wish it on anyone. In these days of "victimhood", fingerpointing and overly sensitive people in general, I am far from taking anyone at their word on this. "#Metoo! I'm a victim too, I must be!" is about where I'm at with all this. Show evidence or shut the f up. The medias reporting of anyone with a claim is, I think, detrimental to the overall #metoo thing and is where a lot of my attitude comes from, not my own personal experience. Troubling times.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 5,049	__________________ Franklin understands certain kickbacks you obtain unfairly are legal liabilities; however, a risky deed's almost never detrimental despite extra external pressures.

5th December 2018, 04:46 PM	#203
kedo1981 Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,578	"Never ** crazy" But they are always the best **.
kedo1981 Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 2,578

6th December 2018, 12:16 AM	#205
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 16,102	Make it four women: Quote: Now a fourth woman has told BuzzFeed News her experience of sexual harassment from Tyson. In January 2010, she recalled, she joined her then-boyfriend at a holiday party for employees of the American Museum of Natural History. Tyson, its most famous employee, drunkenly approached her, she said, making sexual jokes and propositioning her to join him alone in his office. In a 2014 email shared with BuzzFeed News, she described the incident to her own employer in order to shoot down a proposed collaboration with Tyson.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

6th December 2018, 03:22 AM	#206
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,306	Jesus wept, if I detailed every incidence in which a woman had made lewd suggestions to me it would take me until 2050 (and I'm uglier than a hog). It's called life, you idiot woman, so suck on that.
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,306	__________________ "I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill

5th December 2018, 08:36 PM	#204
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 31,664	Originally Posted by kedo1981 "Never ** crazy" But they are always the best **. Not actually true. I've had more crazy partners than not, and they were all inferior to the love of a sane partner. Actually, I take that back. I've had exactly two of each. But the sane ones win the bedroom bingo sweepstakes hands down.

6th December 2018, 04:27 AM	#207
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 18,874	Originally Posted by baron ..you idiot woman, so suck on that. Stellar defense of Tyson there
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

6th December 2018, 10:20 AM	#208
casebro Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 16,257	Originally Posted by baron Jesus wept, if I detailed every incidence in which a woman had made lewd suggestions to me it would take me until 2050 (and I'm uglier than a hog). It's called life, you idiot woman, so suck on that. Yeah dat. Propositioned at a party? It's called "freedom of expression". I guess some people think it is only reasonable to meet potential mates in Sunday school.
	__________________ Great minds discuss ideas. Medium minds discuss events. Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.

6th December 2018, 10:25 AM	#209
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 31,664	Originally Posted by Brainster Make it four women: That seems like a solid reason to decline working with Tyson, but doesn't rise to the level of sexual misconduct, in my opinion.

6th December 2018, 11:51 AM	#210
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 41,912	Originally Posted by baron It's called life, you idiot woman, so suck on that. Telling her to suck on it is what got Tyson in trouble.
	__________________ "As long as it is admitted that the law may be diverted from its true purpose -- that it may violate property instead of protecting it -- then everyone will want to participate in making the law, either to protect himself against plunder or to use it for plunder. Political questions will always be prejudicial, dominant, and all-absorbing. There will be fighting at the door of the Legislative Palace, and the struggle within will be no less furious." - Bastiat, The Law

6th December 2018, 12:02 PM	#211
casebro Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 16,257	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Telling her to suck on it is what got Tyson in trouble. And other women like the taste. How is a guy supposed to know unless he asks?
	__________________ Great minds discuss ideas. Medium minds discuss events. Small minds spend all their time on U-Tube and Facebook.

6th December 2018, 01:09 PM	#212
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,484	Originally Posted by Brainster Make it four women: Now a fourth woman has told BuzzFeed News her experience of sexual harassment from Tyson. In January 2010, she recalled, she joined her then-boyfriend at a holiday party for employees of the American Museum of Natural History. Tyson, its most famous employee, drunkenly approached her, she said, making sexual jokes and propositioning her to join him alone in his office. In a 2014 email shared with BuzzFeed News, she described the incident to her own employer in order to shoot down a proposed collaboration with Tyson. To be absolutely sure I understood it correctly, I looked up proposition, but I still don't see any real problem ... unless his jokes were really bad. He propositioned, she declined.
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,484	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

6th December 2018, 01:09 PM	#213
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,306	Originally Posted by Ziggurat Telling her to suck on it is what got Tyson in trouble. I think he merely suggested it.
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,306	__________________ "I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill

6th December 2018, 09:07 PM	#215
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 16,102	Originally Posted by theprestige That seems like a solid reason to decline working with Tyson, but doesn't rise to the level of sexual misconduct, in my opinion. Well, these days the standard seems to be that any unwanted sexual attention is verboten, and if you ask "How am I to know it's unwanted until I try a few lines?" you're part of the problem.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

18th December 2018, 08:55 AM	#216
Ron_Tomkins Satan's Helper Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 43,329	Neil Degrasse Tyson Sexual Misconduct Allegations Amazingly, seems that no one in this forum is talking about this. Four accusers so far. Out of all of them, the worst and most critical accusations is one of drugging and raping a woman. This is a really disappointing one. Neil always struck me as a good person. If something as dark as this can be true, then who the hell can we trust?
	__________________ "I am a collection of water, calcium and organic molecules called Carl Sagan" Carl Sagan

18th December 2018, 08:58 AM	#217
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,306	A few people are - http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ighlight=tyson
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,306	__________________ "I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill

18th December 2018, 09:07 AM	#218
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 31,664	Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins Amazingly, seems that no one in this forum is talking about this. For whatever reason, the discussion is happening in the skeptical movement "sexual misconduct allegations" thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ations&page=61 Quote: Four accusers so far. Out of all of them, the worst and most critical accusations is one of drugging and raping a woman. This is a really disappointing one. Neil always struck me as a good person. If something as dark as this can be true, then who the hell can we trust? Don't despair just yet. People make horrible accusations all the time. Sometimes they're true, sometimes not. Also, if these accusations are causing you to reconsider trusting anyone, perhaps you should take a closer look at your emotional attachment to media personas. If nothing else, the Cosby thing should have driven home the lesson that "always struck me as a good person" isn't really a rational basis for assigning trust to a public figure.

18th December 2018, 09:14 AM	#219
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,306	For the record, it's a lot of horse **** until proven.
baron Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,306	__________________ "I don't think I'm getting the most out of my computer. I turn it on... and use it as a light." - Harry Hill

18th December 2018, 09:56 AM	#220
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details Posts: 78,418	Originally Posted by theprestige For whatever reason, the discussion is happening in the skeptical movement "sexual misconduct allegations" thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ations&page=61 Don't despair just yet. People make horrible accusations all the time. Sometimes they're true, sometimes not. Also, if these accusations are causing you to reconsider trusting anyone, perhaps you should take a closer look at your emotional attachment to media personas. If nothing else, the Cosby thing should have driven home the lesson that "always struck me as a good person" isn't really a rational basis for assigning trust to a public figure. I think Ron's voicing frustrusation, and a bit of anguish: how about the people he knows personally and thinks are good people?
	__________________ Master of the Shining Darkness "My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward

18th December 2018, 10:54 AM	#221
theprestige Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 31,664	Originally Posted by Belz... I think Ron's voicing frustrusation, and a bit of anguish: how about the people he knows personally and thinks are good people? Hopefully Ron doesn't think that the impression he gets from the public persona of a celebrity figure says anything at all about the trustworthiness of people he actually knows personally. "People are saying the I ******* Love Science poster boy has done some bad things. Now I don't even know who my best friend of 20 years really is anymore!"

18th December 2018, 12:31 PM	#222
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 19,375	This is like the third thread I've seen on it here?
	__________________ Hamilton 68: Tracking Russian internet propaganda

19th December 2018, 07:45 AM	#223
Ron_Tomkins Satan's Helper Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 43,329	Thanks for the merge. I hadn't seen the other threads. Either way, I was a bit amazed to see none of those threads in the first page, which means that the discussion was abandoned even though this case is barely starting to heat up as we speak. So far we got four accusers. The more accusers, the less likely that they are lying. I still hold some hope that this could be at the very least a misconstruction of some sort.
	__________________ "I am a collection of water, calcium and organic molecules called Carl Sagan" Carl Sagan

19th December 2018, 08:53 AM	#224
Klimax NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ) Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9 Posts: 12,631	Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins Thanks for the merge. I hadn't seen the other threads. Either way, I was a bit amazed to see none of those threads in the first page, which means that the discussion was abandoned even though this case is barely starting to heat up as we speak. So far we got four accusers. The more accusers, the less likely that they are lying. I still hold some hope that this could be at the very least a misconstruction of some sort. Or we are getting just copycats. There's enough time in between to doubt independence. And it goes both ways.(Like in some previous cases it prompted other real victims it can also prompt just more false accusations)
	__________________ ModBorg Engine: Ibalgin 400

19th December 2018, 07:31 PM	#225
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 71,533	Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins Amazingly, seems that no one in this forum is talking about this. Four accusers so far. Out of all of them, the worst and most critical accusations is one of drugging and raping a woman. This is a really disappointing one. Neil always struck me as a good person. If something as dark as this can be true, then who the hell can we trust? So you are assuming he's guilty? He has a response to all of the accusations.
	__________________ Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

19th December 2018, 07:37 PM	#226
Skeptic Ginger Nasty Woman Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 71,533	Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins Thanks for the merge. I hadn't seen the other threads. Either way, I was a bit amazed to see none of those threads in the first page, which means that the discussion was abandoned even though this case is barely starting to heat up as we speak. So far we got four accusers. The more accusers, the less likely that they are lying. I still hold some hope that this could be at the very least a misconstruction of some sort. Clues that multiple accusations are not stronger evidence than any of them individually: There is no pattern there. The most credible one, maybe he put the moves on his partner. I didn't find that one all that egregious. It's not like he got aggressive. He may or may not have had sexual intentions but I'm not in the 'you can never date a coworker' camp. As for the grad student affair, read Tyson's response. It's a more reasonable explanation than the accusation which there is no evidence Tyson was behaving that way in college.
	__________________ Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

20th December 2018, 01:55 AM	#227
angrysoba Philosophile Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 24,402	It seems a new pink dwarf planet called Farout - on account of its distance from the Sun - has been discovered. I hope Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn’t go looking for it. “I think I found it!” “No, that’s my nipple!”
	__________________ "The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)

20th December 2018, 08:10 AM	#228
Ron_Tomkins Satan's Helper Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 43,329	Originally Posted by angrysoba It seems a new pink dwarf planet called Farout - on account of its distance from the Sun - has been discovered. I hope Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn’t go looking for it. “I think I found it!” “No, that’s my nipple!” Hahahahaha..... silly.
	__________________ "I am a collection of water, calcium and organic molecules called Carl Sagan" Carl Sagan

20th December 2018, 08:14 AM	#229
Ron_Tomkins Satan's Helper Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 43,329	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger So you are assuming he's guilty? He has a response to all of the accusations. No. Actually that's my bad. I phrased the post incorrectly. I should have said "If true, then that would be really disappointing". Believe me, I wish nothing more than these accusations being false. But in the past, this has not been the case. Typically, one accusation comes out and the accuser says nothing or denies it. A second one comes out, same thing. Then a third..... by the time there's about four or more than four, then the accuser starts going like "Ok, lets run an investigation to find out what happened" or then starts to be more vocal and addresses the situation by saying "it's true that he did know the women but it didn't play the way they describe it".... and then at the end, when the heat has been raised enough, and there's lots of accusers and of articles describing what happened, plus the investigation; the accuser ends up having to admit that the accusers were actually right and apologizes. That is more or less how this has been playing out in the past. This is why I'm having a bad feeling about this. Still, I'm hoping that in this case, it's not true.
	__________________ "I am a collection of water, calcium and organic molecules called Carl Sagan" Carl Sagan

23rd December 2018, 04:11 PM	#230
Mycroft High Priest of Ed Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 19,375	Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins This is why I'm having a bad feeling about this. Still, I'm hoping that in this case, it's not true. In this case I'm inclined to give NDT the benefit of the doubt. Mostly. The primary reason is that the new allegations don't fit the pattern of the old allegation. He stood accused of drugging and raping someone, but the other allegations are nothing like that and so don’t support that as a pattern of behavior. The most credible allegation is from Ms Watson, the former assistant and driver. If NDT really told her she was too “distracting”, aka sexy, to be a producer, then he crossed a line. You’re just not allowed to deny someone a promotion because you find them too attractive and doubt your own self-control. At the same time, I don’t think that rises to a career-killing revelation like the allegations against Cosby, Weinstein and Spacey are. If true, or even if just unable to be proven false, the cure should be more like a couple hours of mandated sensitivity training for the perpetuator and a modest but nice settlement for the victim.
	__________________ Hamilton 68: Tracking Russian internet propaganda

25th December 2018, 12:30 PM	#231
pipelineaudio Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,261	Whoa, he worded at someone??? That's TERRIBLE! He should be shot immediately
	__________________ Don't fear the REAPER, embrace it

18th January 2019, 03:22 PM	#232
HopDavid Thinker Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 193	Originally Posted by smartcooky Actually, in your rush to judgement, you didn't actually bother listening to what NDT said. When he said "....we from they" he wasn't claiming that Bush's "they" referred to all Muslims...he said "they" were the "Muslim fundamentalists", i.e, the terrorists. Errrrr..... fundamentalists =/= terrorists. Tyson was saying Arabic star names confounded the point Bush was trying to make. Stars named by Arabs does nothing to confound a slam against terrorists. And did you notice that Tyson had admitted his error and apologized to Bush? Tyson's words: Quote: And I here publicly apologize to the President for casting his quote in the context of contrasting religions rather than as a poetic reference to the lost souls of Columbia. You are almost as incompetent in reading as you are at math and physics.
HopDavid Thinker Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 193

19th January 2019, 05:25 AM	#233
Porpoise of Life Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 4,740	Tyson's been getting around.

19th January 2019, 01:32 PM	#234
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,484	Originally Posted by Roboramma I think there's another one. There is: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=333605
dann Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 6,484	__________________ /dann "Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht "The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx