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#641 |
Thinker
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 238
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#642 |
BOFH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 11,479
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#643 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,886
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The Daily Mail was deprecated in the 2017 RfC. There is consensus that the Daily Mail (including its online version, MailOnline) is generally unreliable, and its use as a reference is generally prohibited, especially when other more reliable sources exist.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki...ennial_sources |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#644 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,886
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#646 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,886
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#647 |
No longer the 1
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 19,886
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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#648 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 8,822
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#649 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 19,057
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Brexit: ITV scraps plans for TV debate between leaders
ITV has scrapped its plans to hold a Brexit debate between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn this Sunday. The channel said it had invited both parties to appear on the programme two days ahead of the meaningful vote on Mrs May's withdrawal agreement. But an ITV spokeswoman confirmed on Thursday that it would "not go ahead". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46476324 |
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#650 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 8,822
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#651 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 8,822
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#652 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,924
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If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb |
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#653 |
Orthogonal Vector
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45,170
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Small potatoes, here in the US we have thousands of corperations sharing one PO box.
THis house has 200,000 https://freebeacon.com/issues/delawa...lary-clintons/ |
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Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin |
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#654 |
Master Poster
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,127
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There are sites that discuss EU lobbying but, I agree with you that the EU should be more transparent.
https://www.integritywatch.eu/lobbyist.html |
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... er, that's it |
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#655 |
BOFH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 11,479
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#656 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 28,497
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right? Tony Szamboti: That is right |
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#657 |
Good of the Fods
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,508
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It was already a legal requirement that companies list their ingredients.
I, like most of the small vaping guys *did * get my liquids tested. The vaping industry circa 2016 *wanted* there to be testing and standards. What should have happened is that the TPD should have been passed without any reference to vaping stuff, what with vaping products not containing any tobacco and it being the *tobacco products* directive, and then there should have been a whole new separate directive to put in place reasonable testing and standards and regulations for vaping. Testing and standards that reflected the peer reviewed science that would have protected the public and offered consumers choice and competition. The best outcome for the average person would have been testing and standards that were attainable for an average small/medium business. Instead they forced GMP (good manufacturing practice) onto everyone, which sounds good, but is actually pharmaceutical grade manufacturing practices, which cost upwards of £20k to implement. per item. Instead of forcing just the cowboys out of business it forced most of the small/medium businesses out and handed control of the vaping market over to big business. I took the lessons I learned from all of that and started up a new business selling fudge as it happens, but the TPD means that the NHS nowadays has a much higher bill to pay for the times that it recommends vaping as an alternative to smoking because most of the people left in the vaping market are pharma/tobacco companies who pass the extra costs onto the end user. I can talk about the TPD at length, for hours. It's an appalling piece of legislation that should never have been passed. But it was, because lobbyists. And yes I am well aware that there are lobbyists in the UK, but by and large lobbying in the UK isn't as bad as that in the EU and we are still much better off than the US in that regard. Also it's easier to campaign against and repeal country specific legislation, rather than EU wide legislation. |
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#658 |
Good of the Fods
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,508
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Yes. Yes it is.
You would think that as smoking is so detrimental to public health and because it drains so much of taxpayers money from the public purse via treatments for smoking related diseases that anything that reduced smoking prevalence would be welcomed. 5% (five percent!) of adult Swedes smoke. Lots more of them use Snus. We could reduce smoking prevalence from our present numbers of 15-20% to probably at least 10% if Snus was available Europe wide. Sweden had to fight to be able to sell it at all, why can't smokers have the option to use Snus in the UK or in France or in Germany etc? How much money would the NHS save if it had 1/3rd less of patients to treat with smoking related diseases? What's the impact of those extra patients on waiting list times? Is all of that really worth protecting the profits and CEO bonuses of pharma companies for? I don't think it is. |
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#659 |
Philosophile
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 24,425
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893) |
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#660 |
Good of the Fods
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,508
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Brexit won't result in the outcome that I want.
I voted for Brexit as a protest vote. Lots of the Brexit campaign made me mad, including the bus slogan and just about everything Nigel Farage ever said and the fact that that I was voting the same was as the BNP and their ilk. If I could go back and do things over I'd probably not have voted at all, but, ultimately my one single vote made sod all difference to the outcome. Again, I am for European union, but against the EU. I want open borders and free movement of goods and people. I want close co-operation Europe wide for security. I want the UK to have a little more say over the laws that govern it's people |
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#661 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,254
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Are you suggesting that your vote was unique, and that nobody else voted for BREXIT as a protest vote? It would have not taken too many voters to do what you did to change the result. Less than 2% would have led to a vote so close either way that nobody could be standing up and saying that "this is the will of the British people" Norm |
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Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain |
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#662 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,727
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#663 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,254
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Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in Vain |
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#664 |
Uncritical "thinker"
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 20,024
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OECD healthcare spending Expenditure on healthcare http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm link is 2015 data (2013 Data below): UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending |
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#665 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,803
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I wish I knew how to quit you |
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#666 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 8,822
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I would content that all those who voted Leave for similarly capricious reasons were very much part of making the difference.
Quote:
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#667 |
Philosophile
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 24,425
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before." "Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893) |
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#668 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 8,822
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#669 |
NWO Cyborg 5960x (subversion VPUNPCKHQDQ)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Starship Wanderer - DS9
Posts: 12,632
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ModBorg ![]() ![]() Engine: Ibalgin 400 |
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#670 |
BOFH
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 11,479
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#671 |
should be banned
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: on the edge
Posts: 14,152
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No, Ambrosia is like most people and is taking a selfish attitude. Vaping is a common subject for Ambrosia. I suspect they are involved in the industry and wants to pedal more product and sees leaving the EU as a means to that.
Same as James, build my cleaners in Malaysia, Dyson and Arron, offshore companies, Banks. The unemployed want rid of foreigners who 'steal' their jobs. Middle class remainers pay enough for their quinoa, they don't want to pay import duties on top, and they certainly don't want to pay the inevitable higher taxes coming mainly their way when the economy tanks. Everyone is selfish, but at least the remain side has the expert consensus that it better for the economy and therefore better for UK citizens as a whole. Leave is purely selfish. |
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#672 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,384
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Did the UK oppose the modifications to the TPD?
Since the UK has not fought to allow Snus in the country, which should be possible since Sweden succeeded, then what makes anyone think a UK not in the EU would make a blind bit of difference? This is the point. Our governments have used the EU as a shield for legislation they appear to be quite happy with. As soon as you scratch the surface you find that they didn't actually put up a fight. |
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#673 |
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 28,497
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Remain was a vote for the status quo. Protest votes are, by their very nature, votes against the status quo; saying "Everything is fine the way it is" has precisely zero protest value. I'm not saying there weren't a few voters who were too stupid to figure that out and thought they were protesting against something by voting Remain, but it's hard to see how anybody who'd given the matter a vestige of serious thought could have done so.
Dave |
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Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right? Tony Szamboti: That is right |
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#674 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,181
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#675 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,648
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#676 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 19,057
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Brexit: Collapse in pound would be no bad thing, says David Davis
Britain would benefit from a plunging pound after a no-deal Brexit, David Davis has said, suggesting it would ease the departure from Europe. Rejecting claims that a hard Brexit would be worse for Britain than Europe, Mr Davis claimed a 10 per cent drop in sterling would not be “a bad thing”. He said it would have a negative impact on European importers while offsetting the cost of tariffs for British companies selling to Europe. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3...5-4dc2d31f2a89 This is what Brexit has come to, promoting economic collapse as a benefit. |
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#677 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,384
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Yes, because a jab of inflation would be just what we need, to add to our woes.
God than man is a complete arse. |
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#679 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 15,727
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#680 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,050
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No need to exclude yourself.
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There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda |
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