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Old 30th November 2018, 03:15 PM   #3281
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You print the fake money as always ..
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Old 30th November 2018, 03:49 PM   #3282
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Ooh, it's gone up.
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Old 30th November 2018, 04:09 PM   #3283
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Originally Posted by p0lka View Post
Ooh, it's gone up.

Yes, in the last month it has gone up from $6,250 to $4,000. And in the last day it's gone up from $4,250 to $3,950. (CCN pricing)


And since last December...



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Old 30th November 2018, 05:36 PM   #3284
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Inflation and even hyper-inflation can be factored into economic transactions. Rapid unpredictable increases/decrease cannot be factored in, so as bad as hyper-inflation is, itís still better than what we see with crypto-currencies.









Pegging a crypto-currency to your regular fiat currency doesnít solve any of the issues you are complaining about, if you get hyperinflation because the fiat currency is mismanaged the crypto-currency will suffer from it too. If you peg it to the price of a commodity, then you get all the same problems you would with commodity based currencies (which modern economies moved away from for very good reasons).





We already have this, itís called cashÖ


Cash does not solve their problems. You canít safely store cash. You canít send or have cash sent to you easily when you are unbanked.

I get it, you donít see it. I do. Time will tell.


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Old 30th November 2018, 06:06 PM   #3285
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A question. If a person is unbanked, how do they get hold of cryptos in the first place. I assume the only way would be to have cash and a telephone, and could take their cash to a broker to buy a crypto directly and go through all the hoops.


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Old 30th November 2018, 06:24 PM   #3286
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Old 30th November 2018, 07:56 PM   #3287
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
A question. If a person is unbanked, how do they get hold of cryptos in the first place. I assume the only way would be to have cash and a telephone, and could take their cash to a broker to buy a crypto directly and go through all the hoops.


Norm
There are ATMs out there that dispense crypto-currency. (I know how silly that sounds, but there really are.)

See here for example
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Old 30th November 2018, 10:06 PM   #3288
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
There are ATMs out there that dispense crypto-currency. (I know how silly that sounds, but there really are.)

See here for example

Thanks for the link. I did some follow ups, and you can open an account, buy and sell, and exchange Bitcoin with Fiat if you are handy to a machine that has the appropriate bells and whistles, and you have the appropriate identification(s).


I would expect that this sort of softwarew will become more common and easier to use if or when a Crypto becomes a practical day to day commodity.


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Old 1st December 2018, 12:03 AM   #3289
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Yes, in the last month it has gone up from $6,250 to $4,000. And in the last day it's gone up from $4,250 to $3,950. (CCN pricing)


And since last December...



Norm
I kind of like that, I remember years ago we all predicted a share market collapse on a given day, went short, and it went through the roof.

Yeah it collapsed upwards was the wry comment.
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Old 1st December 2018, 12:15 PM   #3290
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Tell that to Zimbabwe, Mexico, Venezuela, Somalia, Iraq....
It's easy to see why Bitcoin would be preferable to the currencies of these countries, but what advantage does it have for the people of Zimbabwe, Mexico or Vesezuela that wouldn't be offered by simply trading in the currencies of more stable nations?
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Old 1st December 2018, 12:19 PM   #3291
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Pegging a crypto-currency to your regular fiat currency doesnít solve any of the issues you are complaining about, if you get hyperinflation because the fiat currency is mismanaged the crypto-currency will suffer from it too. If you peg it to the price of a commodity, then you get all the same problems you would with commodity based currencies (which modern economies moved away from for very good reasons).
Is it even possible to peg a crypto-currency to a commodity? Maduro in Venezuela talked about doing that, but nobody took it seriously.

The value of a crypto-currency is always going to be based on supply and demand.
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Old 1st December 2018, 12:24 PM   #3292
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Cash does not solve their problems. You canít safely store cash. You canít send or have cash sent to you easily when you are unbanked.

I get it, you donít see it. I do. Time will tell.


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But you can do these things with dollars and without complicated programming crap that not everybody understands.
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Old 1st December 2018, 04:49 PM   #3293
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I think it would be hard to find exchange which would accept the local currency. For both BTC and USD.
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Old 2nd December 2018, 11:47 PM   #3294
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Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
There are ATMs out there that dispense crypto-currency. (I know how silly that sounds, but there really are.)

See here for example
We have one of those Crypto ATMs in Bowling Green KY. The deal breaker is the 7% fee to buy your coin of choice. $3000/day max transaction limit and costs $210 in buyer fees (7% of $3000). Ouch, no thanks. I'd prefer to be on the other end of that transaction.

After reading into these ATMs it seems they don't actually contain any Crypto currency. The machine simply accepts your cash and buys your chosen coin from an online exchange while adding a not so modest 7% for the trouble.

Geeze, I may have to look into these things. 7% profit with no stockpiled cryptocurrency requirement sounds interesting.

I think these will catch on though not only for buying but eventually for selling as well. All they need is a somewhat more reasonable transaction fee.

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Old 3rd December 2018, 02:58 AM   #3295
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Is it even possible to peg a crypto-currency to a commodity? Maduro in Venezuela talked about doing that, but nobody took it seriously.

The value of a crypto-currency is always going to be based on supply and demand.
There is a company that offers a gold-backed account. I think the idea is that you buy gold, they keep physical gold in several locations and you get a (credit?) card that you can use to pay in normal currencies. The value of your account is determined by the gold price. I think it's these guys: https://www.goldmoney.com/

I wanted to buy some gold as an investment and looked into this some time ago. But their customer service got terrible reviews so I got turned off.

It's an interesting idea though, for those who love the idea of gold-backed currency.

I think that there is also a gold-backed cryptocurrency. But as the above example shows, why even have a crypto when you can just convert gold into the most convenient local currency?
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Old 3rd December 2018, 07:23 AM   #3296
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Cash does not solve their problems. You canít safely store cash.
Itís a hell of a lot safer to store cash that it is to store bitcoin.
Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
You canít send or have cash sent to you easily when you are unbanked.
Ever hear of a money transfer? Also, for practical purposes, bitcoin requires something very much like a bank so the whole ďunbankedĒ thing is a red herring.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 08:08 AM   #3297
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
Cash does not solve their problems. You canít safely store cash. You canít send or have cash sent to you easily when you are unbanked.
What kind of computer and internet access do these unbanked people have to use these cryptos? As for storing, I don't think the electronic devices are that much safer than cash for such people.
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Old 3rd December 2018, 08:54 AM   #3298
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
But you can do these things with dollars and without complicated programming crap that not everybody understands.
You can, but you shouldn't.

Operating in either foreign currency or crypto currency is going to create economic issues due to itís implications for international trade. Look at what happened to the weaker EU nations when they were forced to undertake austerity programs to address large budget deficits. The decrease in spending slowed economic activity, which reduced tax revenue which ended up further increasing deficits.

Normally what would have happened is their currency would have declined on international markets which would have made their exports and outside investment more attractive, the resulting increase in exports would have stimulated their economy counteracting the negative economic impact of the spending cuts. Instead, because they were pegged to the Euro, the spending cuts created a downward economic spiral that devastated their economies.

Itís not unlike what happened in 1929 with the great depression. A major cause was countries trying to keep their currency pegged to the price of gold instead of increasing the base money supply when their economy started to slow.

An inflexible money supply is a recipe for economic instability, which at the end of the day is the real reason why crypto-currencies will never be a real alternative except for a few corner cases like wanting to hide illegal activities.
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Old 5th December 2018, 12:39 PM   #3299
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Old 5th December 2018, 05:30 PM   #3300
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
3720
I'm sure it will pick up because of all that money being pulled from world markets that are crashing today. Investors will be looking for a new place to put it.





Okay, just kidding.
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Old 5th December 2018, 07:57 PM   #3301
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
3720
I thought that was just the post #.
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Old 6th December 2018, 02:39 AM   #3302
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
I'm sure it will pick up because of all that money being pulled from world markets that are crashing today. Investors will be looking for a new place to put it.





Okay, just kidding.
It's a digital gold, man.

It's a safe haven in times of volatility and cannot be destroyed. one thousand years from now, archaeologists will find thumb drives full of Bitcoins and they will rejoice!
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Old 6th December 2018, 04:32 AM   #3303
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Exclamation

Originally Posted by daenku32 View Post
I thought that was just the post #.
They will intersect shortly
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:00 AM   #3304
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3728, it's turned the corner.
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:31 AM   #3305
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3672, it's gone 'round the bend.
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:48 AM   #3306
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It looks pretty straight to me. Straight to hell ..
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:46 AM   #3307
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Oh dear.

I have a colleague who holds quite a lot of Bitcoin. He bought it cheap, but still...
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Old 6th December 2018, 12:37 PM   #3308
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I think 2000 is achievable by Xmas. This great and just bear market is a wonder to behold. Correcting history is a noble cause.

Warren Buffet: Rat poison.

Charlie Munger: I like it a lot less than Warren
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Old 6th December 2018, 02:09 PM   #3309
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When will mining it become so remarkably expensive to its value that it will die?
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Old 6th December 2018, 03:02 PM   #3310
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
When will mining it become so remarkably expensive to its value that it will die?
Mining it must have been way cheaper. I wonder what mining no 21,000,000 will cost.
The whole fiasco is highlighted by the need to ask these questions. Global warming is now mainstream science so the operation should be banned along with tourism and all hedonism.
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:44 PM   #3311
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
They will intersect shortly
Nearly there!

3,389
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:22 PM   #3312
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$3,309.95!
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:18 PM   #3313
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Let's take a look at the whole Crypto market and leave aside that at one point today Bitcoin dropped below USD$3,300:


https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-dro...a-new-2018-low



Quote:
Total market capitalization of all cryptocurrencies fell sharply as well, wiping away another $11.5 billion to stand at $110.6 billion on the day, a far cry from $813 billion seen on Jan. 8, CoinMarketCap data shows.

That seems to show a fair loss of confidence in Crypto technology being a store of value.



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Old 6th December 2018, 10:51 PM   #3314
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
When will mining it become so remarkably expensive to its value that it will die?
I think you know that the answer is "never".

As has been pointed out many times, when miners drop out of the race, mining becomes cheaper for the remaining miners. The overriding principle is that the block generation rate is constant regardless of how many miners there are.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:53 PM   #3315
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Let's take a look at the whole Crypto market and leave aside that at one point today Bitcoin dropped below USD$3,300:


https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-dro...a-new-2018-low






That seems to show a fair loss of confidence in Crypto technology being a store of value.



Norm
If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you will find exactly the same conclusions being made 4 years ago.
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Old 6th December 2018, 11:23 PM   #3316
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you will find exactly the same conclusions being made 4 years ago.

Yes, but 4 years ago Bitcoin was not as mainstream as it is now, did not have the baggage of being part of a near new Market which has had a capacity drop in the order of $700B in under a year, and is a product which has dropped (forget percentages) $16,500 per "coin" in a year in new money possibly mainly from investors jumping on the latest next big thing bandwagon.


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Old 6th December 2018, 11:37 PM   #3317
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
Yes, but 4 years ago Bitcoin was not as mainstream as it is now, did not have the baggage of being part of a near new Market which has had a capacity drop in the order of $700B in under a year, and is a product which has dropped (forget percentages) $16,500 per "coin" in a year in new money possibly mainly from investors jumping on the latest next big thing bandwagon.
It's ALWAYS different this time.
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Old 7th December 2018, 02:19 AM   #3318
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It's ALWAYS different this time.
Sometimes it IS different this time.
It is different this time, the asymptote will go to zero.
50% of something is better than 100% of nothing, cash up now I implore bitcoin holders.
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Old 7th December 2018, 10:33 AM   #3319
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
Sometimes it IS different this time.
It is different this time, the asymptote will go to zero.
50% of something is better than 100% of nothing, cash up now I implore bitcoin holders.
Why ?
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Old 7th December 2018, 10:38 AM   #3320
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
It is different this time, the asymptote will go to zero.
That's what you said last time.
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