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Old 20th April 2018, 11:58 PM   #121
Oystein
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Then remove the analogy. Hoping a finding that no one was defamed in a process available to determine if someone was defamed is not a judgement that a person wasn't defamed. It is independent of any judgement if a person was defamed or not.
That's wrong.
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Old 21st April 2018, 12:10 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
That makes no sense. Of course I want it right in either case. If someone says I hope the test says I don't have cancer, no one then points out that isn't true if the test is wrong.
But that's exactly what we point out. It a knife is sticking out your chest, or a cancer grows out of your mouth, you most certainly should not hope the doctor won't find it!
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Old 21st April 2018, 12:21 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
It would, but quite possibly not significantly. For example, if we are 99% sure he defamed, an acquittal might alter that to 97%.
And it won't alter the fact that he is a *********** bottom feeding scumbag!
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Old 21st April 2018, 06:02 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
But that's exactly what we point out. It a knife is sticking out your chest, or a cancer grows out of your mouth, you most certainly should not hope the doctor won't find it!
No one points that out. It is implicit that people understand that a person wants the correct result and that they want it to be good news. Saying you want the results to be negative is a clear wish for accurate, good news.

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Old 21st April 2018, 08:15 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And it won't alter the fact that he is a *********** bottom feeding scumbag!
and I am sure his mommy knows that well!!!!!
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Old 21st April 2018, 08:35 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I'd love to see Jones broke and out of his line of work.


Alas, that's basically impossible. Even if the court gave a judgement for literally everything he owns, they can't confiscate his single biggest asset: the literally millions of idiot followers who hang on his every utterance, and send him money for it. Even if he loses the Infowars.com domain, he can start up the next day with a Go Fund Me to start DisInfowars, or some such thing, and his idiot minions will quite happily put him back on top in short order.

They'd have to fine him everything he owns and everything he ever will own to stop this, which I suspect most courts would be reluctant to do.
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Old 21st April 2018, 04:27 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
They'd have to fine him everything he owns and everything he ever will own to stop this
If I fly from here to Austin, Texas, can I get an import licence for my Savage M12?
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 27th April 2018, 11:22 AM   #128
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I'm questioning your nom de plume if you feel there is any need to bring a gun to Texas.
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Old 27th April 2018, 02:02 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I'm questioning your nom de plume if you feel there is any need to bring a gun to Texas.
Fair enough... but I was just making a point!
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As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 27th April 2018, 02:43 PM   #130
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Old 16th August 2018, 03:47 PM   #131
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Media companies are feeling the heat from this lawsuit etc.

Wordpress deleting Sandy Hook conspiracy theory blogs.


Article at TechCrunch.


Originally Posted by TechCrunch
While some of the affected sites had already been flagged for other violations, many were hosting Sandy Hook conspiracy theories and other “false flag” content.

In a YouTube video, the host of one site lamented, “They have wiped out 11 years of my ******* life.” He then read through WordPress’s Terms of Service, confused as to how he was in violation.

According to Google’s cache, his site hosted 9/11 “truther” content and claimed that Sandy Hook was a staged event. These are generally repugnant points of view to a large swath of people, but he’s correct in saying they weren’t views that WordPress had prohibited.

The update to WordPress’s policy follows a damning report from The NYT this week that explained on how the world’s largest blogging service has allowed Sandy Hook conspiracy theorists to remain online.
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Old 16th August 2018, 06:16 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Media companies are feeling the heat from this lawsuit etc.

Wordpress deleting Sandy Hook conspiracy theory blogs.


Article at TechCrunch.
I fully expect alt-right numbskulls to start bleating about free speech and 1A... blah blah blah. However, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with denying a platform to Alex Jones, and any other scumbag who would use their free speech rights to attack and slander the parents of slaughtered children.

I hope Jones gets kicked off every public platform and is forced to set up his own... then Anonymous can start the DDoS attacks without affecting anyone else.
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As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 16th August 2018, 06:51 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I fully expect alt-right numbskulls to start bleating about free speech and 1A... blah blah blah. However, I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with denying a platform to Alex Jones, and any other scumbag who would use their free speech rights to attack and slander the parents of slaughtered children.

I hope Jones gets kicked off every public platform and is forced to set up his own... then Anonymous can start the DDoS attacks without affecting anyone else.
He should call it www.infowars.com
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Old 16th August 2018, 07:05 PM   #134
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“Because there’s a moron for your mind”
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:44 AM   #135
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In other news......

Lenny Pozner sues James Fetzer and Mike Palacek for defamation related to conspiracies about the shooting at Sandy Hook school


Originally Posted by New York Times
Fetzer, reached at his Wisconsin home, said he and Palacek will put up a vigorous defense.

"Our evidence clearly shows this wasn't a massacre, it was a FEMA drill," Fetzer said. "If you believe otherwise, than you are being played."


SEE HERE (link: New York Times)

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Old 5th December 2018, 10:36 AM   #136
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I would rather see the Sandy Hook parents tortured in camps than have them partially responsible for removing a sliver of freedom. Freedom is more important than butthurt. Always has been, no matter what. People just don't care about freedom anymore. Now in France the're trying to censor conspiracy theories all together.

Actual crisis actor conspiracies have been conceived of before (1967 Operation Northwoods memo and the Bush-Blair 2003 Memo), so it's not like the conspiracy theorists started it. Plus, people wouldn't be so quick to judge them if they were aware of the true war-mongering nature of the U.S. for the last sixty years, and would especially become more sympathetic to the crazier crowd if they were aware of all the evidence surrounding the assassinations of the 60's. Conspiracy watchdogs are important in society because conspiracies happen. Besides, Alex Jones is technically more innocent than almost all mainstream media entities because he called BS on the Iraq war from the very beginning, an Iraq was a pointless mass murder that cost 1.5 million+ lives.

Who here wants their freedom of speech to be decided by a committee of Kyle's mom from South Park? Because there's no argument that that's what we're going to get.

Last edited by MicahJava; 5th December 2018 at 10:41 AM.
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Old 5th December 2018, 10:46 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I would rather see the Sandy Hook parents tortured in camps than have them partially responsible for removing a sliver of freedom. Freedom is more important than butthurt...
Freedom to kill children? and the parents are just butthurt over this?

Do you value the freedom of someone to pop a cap in your head, too?

Seriously, dude
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Old 5th December 2018, 10:49 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Freedom to kill children? and the parents are just butthurt over this?

Do you value the freedom of someone to pop a cap in your head, too?

Seriously, dude


Freedom... of speech. Seriously, dude?
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Old 5th December 2018, 10:52 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I would rather see the Sandy Hook parents tortured in camps than have them partially responsible for removing a sliver of freedom. Freedom is more important than butthurt. Always has been, no matter what. People just don't care about freedom anymore. Now in France the're trying to censor conspiracy theories all together.

Actual crisis actor conspiracies have been conceived of before (1967 Operation Northwoods memo and the Bush-Blair 2003 Memo), so it's not like the conspiracy theorists started it. Plus, people wouldn't be so quick to judge them if they were aware of the true war-mongering nature of the U.S. for the last sixty years, and would especially become more sympathetic to the crazier crowd if they were aware of all the evidence surrounding the assassinations of the 60's. Conspiracy watchdogs are important in society because conspiracies happen. Besides, Alex Jones is technically more innocent than almost all mainstream media entities because he called BS on the Iraq war from the very beginning, an Iraq was a pointless mass murder that cost 1.5 million+ lives.

Who here wants their freedom of speech to be decided by a committee of Kyle's mom from South Park? Because there's no argument that that's what we're going to get.


There have to be limits. Am I allowed to flat out tell all my friends you're a <insert unpleasant description of criminal activity>?
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Old 5th December 2018, 10:57 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
There have to be limits. Am I allowed to flat out tell all my friends you're a <insert unpleasant description of criminal activity>?
The "Sandy Hook parents" chose to become public figures by choosing to appear on news media. If you want to say the consequences of that are horrible, that's just the tragedy of reality. "I like freedom" is a political statement, not a Hallmark card. It comes with some good and some bad. Innocent people could get hurt, but then again people could get hurt the other way too. It is possible to disagree with having the maximum amount of freedom at all times. I happen to think that is the best way. If you disagree, say so.

Last edited by MicahJava; 5th December 2018 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 5th December 2018, 11:03 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Freedom... of speech. Seriously, dude?
You don't get how speech can translate to action? The dumb are sometimes motivated to action by speech.

*glances at Comet Pizza*
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Old 5th December 2018, 11:08 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The "Sandy Hook parents" chose to become public figures by choosing to appear on news media. If you want to say the consequences of that are horrible, that's just the tragedy of reality.
Are you a politician? None of what you've written answers my question.

Should I be allowed to tell all of my friends and yours that you indulge in illegal and reprehensible activity? Am I at liberty to run round telling the world about it and maybe publish a book entitled "MicahJava's Illegal and Reprehensible Activity all over the Western Hemisphere"? (Read about the remarkable interaction with Thai 'ladies', marvel at the the wonder of what he can do with three balloons and a peanut. "A work of unparalleled truth" Alex Jones)


Quote:
"I like freedom" is a political statement, not a Hallmark card. It comes with some good and some bad. Innocent people could get hurt, but then again people could get hurt the other way too. It is possible to disagree with having the maximum amount of freedom at all times. I happen to think that is the best way. If you disagree, say so.

Yes, but am I allowed to publish my book? Or would you restrict my freedom to do so?
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Old 5th December 2018, 11:09 AM   #143
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We are living in a time of a legal test of the 1st amendment. Seems that malicious actors are trying to walk the razor's edge of protected speech. What counts as a protected opinion and open slander, harassment, or incitement to harassment is a tricky question that I have no simple response for.

One thing is abundantly clear, these trolls hiding behind 1A are among the worst people.

Quote:
His lawyers blacked out the portion of the certificate that includes where Noah Pozner is buried, out of a concern that conspiracy theorists would desecrate the grave in a misguided effort to show he is not buried there.
That's abhorrent. I hope only the worst for these people.
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Old 5th December 2018, 11:39 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I would rather see the Sandy Hook parents tortured in camps than have them partially responsible for removing a sliver of freedom.
I think torturing people in camps mandates a removal of freedom.
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Old 5th December 2018, 11:52 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I think torturing people in camps mandates a removal of freedom.
Luckily that wasn't the meaning of my comment.
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Old 5th December 2018, 11:53 AM   #146
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Freedom of speech does not absolve you of the consequences of your speech. That book is tantamount to libel, and if there are people that have harassed the Sandy Hook parents to the degree that is being claimed (and from what I have read there is no reason to think he's lying), the people who wrote the book could and should be responsible for causing the harassment.
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Old 5th December 2018, 12:04 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Luckily that wasn't the meaning of my comment.
Dude! Can I publish my book?
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Old 5th December 2018, 12:16 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Luckily that wasn't the meaning of my comment.
And yet another comment you wrote that you back away from.
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Old 5th December 2018, 12:26 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
And yet another comment you wrote that you back away from.
Yep... you and I, we're used to that!
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- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 5th December 2018, 12:38 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Actual crisis actor conspiracies have been conceived of before (1967 Operation Northwoods memo and the Bush-Blair 2003 Memo)
Want to quote the section of Northwoods that specifies "crisis actors?"
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Old 5th December 2018, 12:39 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I would rather see the Sandy Hook parents tortured in camps than have them partially responsible for removing a sliver of freedom.
Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from speech.

If I walk into a predominantly African-American nightclub and start calling people the N-word, I should expect the profound beating that follows.

If I write a book claiming that Patrick Stewart is indeed the head of the Illuminati without any documented evidence proving that he is, then I should expect Stewart to sue my butt into oblivion.

The Sandy Hook parents have a Constitutional right of redress, a freedom you want to take away.

Quote:
Actual crisis actor conspiracies have been conceived of before (1967 Operation Northwoods memo and the Bush-Blair 2003 Memo), so it's not like the conspiracy theorists started it.
I've missed your post featuring a poor grasp of easy history.

Operation Northwoods was conceived in 1962, not 1967, by the JFK NSC as part of a list of proposals to justify invading Cuba. JFK, RFK, and the rest of the NSC shot the idea down BECAUSE IT WAS TOO STUPID TO WORK.

Yes, your hero, JFK, for a moment considered a "false flag
operation.

As far as Iraq goes, the Bush Administration's NSC seem to have been lead by right-wing 9-11 Truthers. The war in Iraq was their "New Investigation".

Quote:
Plus, people wouldn't be so quick to judge them if they were aware of the true war-mongering nature of the U.S. for the last sixty years, and would especially become more sympathetic to the crazier crowd if they were aware of all the evidence surrounding the assassinations of the 60's.
Yes, for the last 60 years the United States has exited in a vacuum.

Quote:
Conspiracy watchdogs are important in society because conspiracies happen.
Yes, and not one CTist has run wild with the mysterious deaths of FSB agents involved in the 2016 US election hackings. Not a lot of FSB Truthers out there for some reason.

Quote:
Besides, Alex Jones is technically more innocent than almost all mainstream media entities because he called BS on the Iraq war from the very beginning, an Iraq was a pointless mass murder that cost 1.5 million+ lives.
You ignore so many facts to embrace this.

Quote:
Who here wants their freedom of speech to be decided by a committee of Kyle's mom from South Park? Because there's no argument that that's what we're going to get.
That is not what is happening in this case. Alex Jones is being taken to court for accusations he has made on his show - without evidence - that have directly lead to these families being threatened with death by CTists.

They have not won the case yet, and the judge/jury might side with Alex Jones.

This is Due Process, a cornerstone of that "Freedom" you claim is being threatened.
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Old 5th December 2018, 12:55 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The "Sandy Hook parents" chose to become public figures by choosing to appear on news media. If you want to say the consequences of that are horrible, that's just the tragedy of reality. "I like freedom" is a political statement, not a Hallmark card. It comes with some good and some bad. Innocent people could get hurt, but then again people could get hurt the other way too. It is possible to disagree with having the maximum amount of freedom at all times. I happen to think that is the best way. If you disagree, say so.
I'm curious how you justify fascist terror threats under the hollow banner of Freedom?

How can you argue on one thread that the JFK assassination and the 9-11 attacks were part of a right-wing conspiracy, and then defend Nazis on this thread?

Or are you even aware that this is what you are doing?

The Sandy Hook parents didn't choose anything, they were chosen by the cruelest of fates when a spoiled, mentally ill rich kid shot his way into their kid's school, and killed a bunch of them. The press stuck microphones in their faces and they spoke, that was it. If someone killed my kid I would become a crusader in a New York Minute.

You only care about human suffering when it suits your political world view. If you can't show compassion for the murder of 20 kindergartners then how can we see your lamentations over the deaths of Iraqis as anything but crocodile tears?

I hope they win. I hope Jones and other like him ends up penniless living under a highway overpass in Omaha.
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Old 5th December 2018, 01:02 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I'm curious how you justify fascist terror threats under the hollow banner of Freedom?

How can you argue on one thread that the JFK assassination and the 9-11 attacks were part of a right-wing conspiracy, and then defend Nazis on this thread?

Or are you even aware that this is what you are doing?

The Sandy Hook parents didn't choose anything, they were chosen by the cruelest of fates when a spoiled, mentally ill rich kid shot his way into their kid's school, and killed a bunch of them. The press stuck microphones in their faces and they spoke, that was it. If someone killed my kid I would become a crusader in a New York Minute.

You only care about human suffering when it suits your political world view. If you can't show compassion for the murder of 20 kindergartners then how can we see your lamentations over the deaths of Iraqis as anything but crocodile tears?

I hope they win. I hope Jones and other like him ends up penniless living under a highway overpass in Omaha.
Dude, a bit harsh. What the hell did Omaha ever do to you?
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Old 5th December 2018, 01:13 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Dude, a bit harsh. What the hell did Omaha ever do to you?
Send him to Arkansas, we'll take him.

Our Supreme Court recently affirmed the right of open carry...

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Old 5th December 2018, 03:21 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Dude, a bit harsh. What the hell did Omaha ever do to you?
That monster gave me affordable healthcare and killed bin Laden. What am I supposed to whine about now?
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:25 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
That monster gave me affordable healthcare and killed bin Laden. What am I supposed to whine about now?
Ten points for Gryffindor!
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Old 6th December 2018, 02:13 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I would rather see the Sandy Hook parents tortured in camps than have them partially responsible for removing a sliver of freedom.
And I would see those who advocate torturing people in camps as an infinitely greater threat to freedom than those pointing out how idiotic their persecution fantasies are.

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Old 6th December 2018, 02:45 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The "Sandy Hook parents" chose to become public figures by choosing to appear on news media. If you want to say the consequences of that are horrible, that's just the tragedy of reality. "I like freedom" is a political statement, not a Hallmark card. It comes with some good and some bad. Innocent people could get hurt, but then again people could get hurt the other way too. It is possible to disagree with having the maximum amount of freedom at all times. I happen to think that is the best way. If you disagree, say so.
Scum like Alex Jones propelled Sandy Hook victims into the media spotlight with their lies. Innocent people got hurt by a man with a gun and Jones and his ilk choose to make money out of it. That seem reasonable to you? If it does I'd take a good look at yourself in the mirror and throw a rock at it.

I completely disagree with your utterly stupid non sequitur that being a victim of an atrocity makes you fair game for morons and charlatans in the name of freedom.
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Old 6th December 2018, 03:25 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The "Sandy Hook parents" chose to become public figures by choosing to appear on news media.
No, Sandy Hook parents were forced to take that path because of the pack of lies told by a vile, despicable, and barely sub-human pile of steaming faeces called Alex Jones, and the rancid turds who support him and follow him. Some of those rancid turds physically threatened the lives of Sandy Hook parents.

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I would rather see the Sandy Hook parents tortured in camps than have them partially responsible for removing a sliver of freedom.
I'd rather see Alex Jones and those who agree with him tortured in these camps of yours... they would certainly be more deserving of such treatment than the parents of murdered middle-schoolers

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Freedom is more important than butthurt.
Being threatened by nutcase conspiracy theorists because your children have been murdered in a mass shooting is not "butthurt", its a tragedy.

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Who here wants their freedom of speech to be decided by a committee of Kyle's mom from South Park? Because there's no argument that that's what we're going to get.
I would be quite happy to have my "freedom of speech" curtailed to the point where if I publicly accused people of faking their child's murder, I would need to prove, in a Court of Law that what I am accusing them of is true. I would still have freedom of speech, as long as accusatory speech is verifiable truth.

The world would be a lot more civil place if everyone had to be accountable for what they publicly said about others.
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Old 6th December 2018, 06:54 AM   #160
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Yes.

This isn't a case of someone being mistaken. This is a case of someone spreading blatant lies. At best without performing the basic steps one would expect a reasonable person to perform to determine their truth before making the accusations, and at worst a malicious and deliberate callousness as to the effect of their speech on others in the name of personal profit.

This type of speech is not any "watchdog of freedom", it's non-government propaganda.

There are reasons that pretty much every civilized country in the world has libel and slander laws.
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