ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 7th September 2018, 01:24 PM   #121
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,059
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It seems unlikely that other officers would need anything opened up, though.
There could be reasons. Maybe that was the other officers telling neighbors to open their door for an interview. Or maybe during the early part of the investigation the cops didn't have the apartment door propped open and so with each new arriving cop they have to yell to be let into the apartment.

Anyway, it is odd to me that Caitlin Simpson would say that she heard the shooter cop yelling open up but then not say that she heard gunshots. I'm speculating that if she can hear the yelling in the hallway she can also hear the shots.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 01:28 PM   #122
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 17,531
Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Plausible. But if your a burglar why would you yell anything?
And if tjete is a burgler in your apartment, why do you tell him to "open up"?

The sly fox has apparently changed the lock on your door to rob the place, so will now open the door for you?
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Gidget, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 01:33 PM   #123
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,059
Quote:
Two women who live on the second floor near where the shooting happened said they heard a lot of noise late Thursday.

"It was, like, police talk: 'Open up! Open up!'" 20-year-old Caitlin Simpson told The Dallas Morning News.

Yazmine Hernandez, 20, was studying with Simpson when they heard the commotion.

"We heard cops yelling, but otherwise had no idea what was going on," Hernandez said.
Sounds to me like Caitlin and Yazmine heard responding officers and not the initial incident itself.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/07...kills-man.html
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 01:35 PM   #124
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,063
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
She doesn't have the right key. She can't open it with any key on her person.

It seems much more likely that she tried her key and it did not work, and probably got stuck, or it wouldn't go all the way in.
In the same building the contractors would have used hundreds of the same model of lock. A key for the wrong lock could still be inserted and removed, just not turned.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 01:43 PM   #125
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,059
We don't know if her key was actually stuck in the lock (can't pull it out), or if she just didn't remove it and put it back in her pocket or belt lanyard before the shooting happened. The resident may have opened the door before she decided to just put the non-working key back on her body from where she got it.

There are rational explanations that don't require the key to suddenly be irremovable from the lock.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 01:45 PM   #126
crescent
Master Poster
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,787
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
In the same building the contractors would have used hundreds of the same model of lock. A key for the wrong lock could still be inserted and removed, just not turned.
Yes. She inserts the key, but it does not turn.

Jean hears someone fiddling with the lock and looks through the peephole (every apartment door I've ever seen has one).

He sees a cop.

He opens the door, perhaps to see what the cop is doing there. The key is still in the lock. The key didn't unlock the door, but the key still fits into the lock because all the locks in the building are the same brand.

The cop, still thinking it is her apartment, reacts.

That seems very plausible. Manslaughter charges seem appropriate.
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 01:46 PM   #127
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 26,740
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
There could be reasons. Maybe that was the other officers telling neighbors to open their door for an interview. Or maybe during the early part of the investigation the cops didn't have the apartment door propped open and so with each new arriving cop they have to yell to be let into the apartment.

Anyway, it is odd to me that Caitlin Simpson would say that she heard the shooter cop yelling open up but then not say that she heard gunshots. I'm speculating that if she can hear the yelling in the hallway she can also hear the shots.


Here's one thing: Did she radio in that she'd shot someone "in my apartment"? The other cops might have been banging on the correct door.
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 01:53 PM   #128
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,059
Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Here's one thing: Did she radio in that she'd shot someone "in my apartment"? The other cops might have been banging on the correct door.
Yes, that could have been it.

But still I'm presuming that the shooter did realize that it wasn't her own apartment in the moments before she called dispatch.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 01:54 PM   #129
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,063
Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Here's one thing: Did she radio in that she'd shot someone "in my apartment"? The other cops might have been banging on the correct door.
Good point. If she had given the dispatcher her own address -- certainly most likely -- the cops would have gone to the wrong unit, at least for this purpose, and might have thought a fellow cop was in trouble inside. That's the door they might have broken down.

Last edited by Bob001; 7th September 2018 at 01:55 PM.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 01:58 PM   #130
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,059
I would expect the shooter cop to either stand in the hallway near the victim's door or stand near the elevator while waiting for the other cops to arrive.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 02:04 PM   #131
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,063
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I would expect the shooter cop to either stand in the hallway near the victim's door or stand near the elevator while waiting for the other cops to arrive.
Sure. But if she doesn't know that she's on the wrong floor, she would have directed the cops to where she thought she was, which is how the whole tragedy began.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 02:07 PM   #132
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,059
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Sure. But if she doesn't know that she's on the wrong floor, she would have directed the cops to where she thought she was, which is how the whole tragedy began.
I'm still holding my presumption that she learned it wasn't her own apartment before she called dispatch.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 02:09 PM   #133
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,059
Maybe she went down to the lobby to meet arriving officers because she knew they wouldn't be able to get in an elevator or stairway without a key.

How do the cops go anywhere in this building without a key or swipecard?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 02:24 PM   #134
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,479
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I'm still holding my presumption that she learned it wasn't her own apartment before she called dispatch.
In the adrenaline rush of just having shot someone I don't see why you think she would all of the sudden realize her mistake. It is just as likely that she didn't notice the mistake until after she had made the call. If the apartments are furnished it may have taken her quite some time to realize it wasn't her place.
__________________
I once proposed a fun ban.

Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 02:25 PM   #135
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,479
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe she went down to the lobby to meet arriving officers because she knew they wouldn't be able to get in an elevator or stairway without a key.

How do the cops go anywhere in this building without a key or swipecard?
Most elevators have a fire fighter override. I assume the cops have those keys, too. Or something similar. But I do not know.
__________________
I once proposed a fun ban.

Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 02:26 PM   #136
BrooklynBaby
Muse
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 816
I think we'll need to compare her contemporaneous statement with the crime scene evidence. Right now it is all just guessing.
BrooklynBaby is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 02:27 PM   #137
autumn1971
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,493
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I would expect the shooter cop to either stand in the hallway near the victim's door or stand near the elevator while waiting for the other cops to arrive.
I would hope in these situations the officer would be administering first aid and trying to stabilize the victim.

And assuming, as she may have, that this was a dangerous, possibly armed individual, why did she not step away from the door to safety and cover it while assessing the situation?

ETA: First paragraph should go second
__________________
'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."'
-The Bard

Last edited by autumn1971; 7th September 2018 at 02:29 PM.
autumn1971 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 02:36 PM   #138
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,059
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
In the adrenaline rush of just having shot someone I don't see why you think she would all of the sudden realize her mistake. It is just as likely that she didn't notice the mistake until after she had made the call. If the apartments are furnished it may have taken her quite some time to realize it wasn't her place.
My presumption is that she sees the interior of the apartment right after shooting him and realizes it isn't her place - then she calls dispatch. I'm presuming that the shooting happens right at the door as soon as he opens it. He drops to the ground and she is now able to see past him into the apartment and knows it isn't her place. This all happens in seconds.

But then there is the possibility that it's completely dark inside the apartment and she can't see anything inside there both before and after shooting him. The hallway probably has lighting that spills into the apartment to a certain extent when the door is open.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 02:51 PM   #139
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,059
Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
I would hope in these situations the officer would be administering first aid and trying to stabilize the victim.
That may have happened and maybe the "Open up" yelling was the cops telling her to let them into the apartment where she was doing first aid on the victim.

Quote:
And assuming, as she may have, that this was a dangerous, possibly armed individual, why did she not step away from the door to safety and cover it while assessing the situation?
This is a good point as that is probably proper procedure.

But it's also possible that she didn't really think there was a burglar inside and only that her key wasn't getting the door open. She's fiddling with it and maybe putting her shoulder to work trying to push it open in case it's somehow stuck shut like that. Then the door suddenly pops open and it's a guy holding a gun which is really a cellphone. She instantly draws and shoots never once thinking that it isn't her own apartment. No words exchanged at all. It's a possibility.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 02:51 PM   #140
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 17,479
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
My presumption is that she sees the interior of the apartment right after shooting him and realizes it isn't her place - then she calls dispatch. I'm presuming that the shooting happens right at the door as soon as he opens it. He drops to the ground and she is now able to see past him into the apartment and knows it isn't her place. This all happens in seconds.
You are presuming normal operation, but she has already shown that she is not operating at full tilt. She should have noticed it much earlier, like before entering the apartment, but she didn't.
__________________
I once proposed a fun ban.

Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 03:17 PM   #141
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,063
More on the victim. Sounds like a lot of people will miss him.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/07/us/da...ean/index.html
https://www.thv11.com/article/news/l...s/91-591995283
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 04:10 PM   #142
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,063
ABC says tenants use an electronic key, and that the interaction -- details still unclear -- occurred after the door opened. Sounds like he heard somebody at the door, opened it, and the cop -- white, but we knew that, right? -- decided this is a bad guy.
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 05:00 PM   #143
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 23,147
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It... wasn't... her... apartment. That's not some tiny secondary detail.
Indeed, that seems like a primary detail. Of course she felt threatened as anyone making a stupid, egregious error might. She should, under the circumstances, not only have felt threatened, but been threatened. Given the law where she lives, she should thank her lucky stars the victim of her home invasion did not have a chance to exercise his right to shoot her dead where she stood.

Yes, it's not only not an excuse, but even as an explanation, it's no more mitigation than it would be if she said Jesus told her to do it.

(ed to add) OK, maybe I'm being a little harsh here but it appears that the man opened the door for her. Would a thief in her house do that? It seems pretty clear that she came in armed and ready, and shot him before there was any chance to explain. One the one hand I feel as if one should not be too harsh over a terrible mistake, but on the other, I feel if she came in with the intention to shoot and kill the occupant of the apartment, then why only manslaughter? The fact that it was all a mistake does not diminish the fact that she almost certainly premeditated the shooting before the door was even opened.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)

Last edited by bruto; 7th September 2018 at 05:06 PM.
bruto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 05:27 PM   #144
Lambchops
Muse
 
Lambchops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Norvegr
Posts: 737
Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
I'm surprised they didn't arrest her at the scene .

Secure blood work, get a statement from her.

This seems very shady.
You expect pigs to arrest pigs?

That's adorable.
__________________
Need a good laugh? Click this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/beholdthemasterrace/
Lambchops is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 05:27 PM   #145
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
...
Did the female cop possibly try a key that didn't work and then start trying to get in?
Here's my bet on the scenario:

Somehow she got **** faced after work, uniform or not, maybe she stopped off at the bar on the way home.

At the apt she was trying her key in the door when the victim opened it. That's when the cop shot.

Drunk people walk into the wrong homes. It happens.

I can't see how this happened if she was sober.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 05:29 PM   #146
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
This is unconfirmed, but that may have happened here...

https://stluciatimes.com/2018/09/07/...rong-apartment
I swear I wrote my post before I read this one.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 05:31 PM   #147
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
She was drunk? Maybe but...

Is there any kind of police policy that forbids off-duty drinking while wearing your full officer uniform? I don't know the answer at all.
She could secretly drink at work and top it off with a pint while driving home.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 05:33 PM   #148
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Does the exact length of time she's been off shift matter?
Enough time to get drunk.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 05:47 PM   #149
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,209
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
OMG, Joe! It's obvious that I'm talking about her state of mind. She thought it was her own apartment.
Yes .. and if I am not mistaken ... if she can establish she honestly thought it WAS her apartment .. that fact it was not may not big a huge factor in a court case.

The prosecution MAY have to proceed as if it were her apartment .... there is a load of case law regarding mistaken domiciles.
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 05:49 PM   #150
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,209
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A manslaughter warrant is expected to be issued for a Dallas police officer who police say shot and killed a man after entering an apartment unit she believed was her own Thursday night.
Can we assume everyone here thinks that is a reasonable course?

... I think so ... she SHOULD be at least charged.
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 05:54 PM   #151
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,209
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
A deadbolt is a mechanism that physically bolts the door to the frame, as opposed to a springloaded latch lock that can be popped with a credit card. You still use a key to operate a deadbolt ...
In this case I'm sure that is correct ... but "deadbolt" in some areas (and more often in the past) means an inner lock that does not operate with a key from out side.

Some common Latch Locks can also be dead bolted form inside to Lock Out the key ... and some common American style deadbolts have a future to lockout the key (by moving a secondary lever or simply pushing IN on the inside thumb turn, for two examples)
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 05:55 PM   #152
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,209
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
The above link also says:


How do we know her key didn't work? Maybe he didn't lock his door, she just walked in, found a stranger and opened fire?
That was my understanding when I first heard the story ... now I am not sure
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 05:58 PM   #153
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,209
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
She doesn't have the right key. She can't open it with any key on her person.

It seems much more likely that she tried her key and it did not work, and probably got stuck, or it wouldn't go all the way in.
It's most likely (almost guaranteed) this building is Master Keyed .. if so EVERY renters key will ENTER (go in all the way) to every lock on the site ... (but obviously not turn the lock to open)
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 05:58 PM   #154
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Alexandria, VA Home to the Deep State.
Posts: 17,448
This is a training thing. At some point, we stopped teaching police to assess and started teaching them to go for their gun first. Where we once would have taught this officer to move to the door frame and assess the situation, we now teacher her to reach for gun and "stop the threat". I'm not excusing her behavior. She clearly should have known it wasn't her apartment.

We've trained police over the last 15 years to live and operate in a world that doesn't exist. We've trained them to think they are patrolling the streets of a community with an active insurgency inhabiting it instead of their neighbors. She opened the door, and training took over.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 06:00 PM   #155
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,209
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
And if tjete is a burgler in your apartment, why do you tell him to "open up"?

The sly fox has apparently changed the lock on your door to rob the place, so will now open the door for you?
It's a fairly common practice for burglars to mess the lock up (toothpick, glue some gum whatever) so if the owner shows up they can;t open the lock .... every cop knows this, its part of basic training.
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 06:03 PM   #156
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,209
Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Here's one thing: Did she radio in that she'd shot someone "in my apartment"? The other cops might have been banging on the correct door.
If she was off duty it would be unlikely she had a radio with her ... usually they leave them in the charging station at the office.

Edit ... Maybe I missed ... it seems form more recent posts she HAD a radio with her ... anyone know for sure .. or did she simply telephone it in?

Last edited by Ron Swanson; 7th September 2018 at 06:04 PM.
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 06:06 PM   #157
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,209
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe she went down to the lobby to meet arriving officers because she knew they wouldn't be able to get in an elevator or stairway without a key.

How do the cops go anywhere in this building without a key or swipecard?
If there's a numeric key pad ... the local dispatch keeps them updated on file and can radio the responding officers.
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 06:08 PM   #158
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,059
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson View Post
It's most likely (almost guaranteed) this building is Master Keyed .. if so EVERY renters key will ENTER (go in all the way) to every lock on the site ... (but obviously not turn the lock to open)
The latest information (not confirmed) is that she was using a fob or keycard (like a credit card thing) to try to enter, not a traditional metal key inserted into a lock.

Maybe these locks are like in hotels where you put the plastic card into a slot and the lock opens. Maybe they have multiple methods on each door - such as traditional key, keypad for passcode entry, or plastic card.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 06:12 PM   #159
Ron Swanson
Illuminator
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,209
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
The latest information (not confirmed) is that she was using a fob or keycard (like a credit card thing) to try to enter, not a traditional metal key inserted into a lock.

Maybe these locks are like in hotels where you put the plastic card into a slot and the lock opens. Maybe they have multiple methods on each door - such as traditional key, keypad for passcode entry, or plastic card.
Ahhh .. well yes as you say many key card / fob entry systems have a numeric keypad (also used for programming functions) and of course a key back up ...

Some body who lives close go take a photo of one the locks so i can ID it!
Ron Swanson is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th September 2018, 06:27 PM   #160
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 21,059
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
She could secretly drink at work and top it off with a pint while driving home.
She lives only one block from the Dallas Police Station. I looked on Google Maps. It would be ridiculous for her to drive to and from the station. Between her building and the station is an open parking lot that she can walk straight through.

That doesn't mean that she didn't go somewhere for booze before going home.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:21 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.