ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

Reply
Old 16th November 2018, 11:14 AM   #281
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,252
Loyalty is a one way street.

Quote:
But in private Mr. Trump is apparently not feeling so fine. In recent weeks, with his electoral prospects two years from now much on his mind, Mr. Trump has focused on the person who has most publicly tethered his fortunes to him. In one conversation after another he has asked aides and advisers a pointed question: Is Mike Pence loyal?

Mr. Trump has repeated the question so many times that he has alarmed some of his advisers. The president has not openly suggested dropping Mr. Pence from the ticket and picking another running mate, but the advisers say those kinds of questions usually indicate that he has grown irritated with someone.

The answers Mr. Trump gets to his question have varied, depending on whom he asks.

Within the White House, most people he has talked to have assured the president that Mr. Pence has been a committed soldier, engaging in activities that Mr. Trump has eschewed, such as traveling to Hawaii to receive the remains of veterans of the Korean War, or visiting parts of the globe that Mr. Trump has avoided.

But some Trump advisers, primarily outside the White House, have suggested to him that while Mr. Pence remains loyal, he may have used up his utility. These advisers argue that Mr. Trump has forged his own relationship with evangelical voters, and that what he might benefit from more is a running mate who could help him with women voters, who disapprove of him in large numbers.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 11:26 AM   #282
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 18,042
Trump tells reporters he wrote his own answers to the Mueller questions -

"They were my answers. I don't need lawyers to do that... they're not very difficult questions"


Please let it be true!
Captain_Swoop is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 11:56 AM   #283
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 9,659
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I get the feeling he's worried about how badly refusing to honour the fallen will have played in the military.

No, he's not worried at all.

You're forgetting that he is a narcissist. By the very nature of this mental affliction, he is totally incapable of feeling sympathy for anyone other than himself. Narcissists see and admire only their own reflection; no-one else's! They are only ever the victims of injustices, never the perpetrators.

This is why he feels nothing when ordering children to be ripped away (and kept away) from their parents, and locked up in cages.

This is why he regards a few thousand destitute and malnourished men, women and children as an existential threat to the United States (notice how the "caravan" has suddenly disappeared off the reporting of Faux News?)

This is why he expresses criticism of the victims of the California wildfires, blaming them for poor forest management, when the fires actually started in forests that were under Federal management, making it ultimately HIS responsibility.

This is why he travelled to Pittsburgh while the families of the victims of the Or L'Simcha shootings were trying to bury their dead even though he was urged not to do so - because he has no sympathy for the victims - its all about him!

This is why he insults the fallen soldiers of the US, by skipping the commemorations - it was raining and his hair might get wet.

That Der Trumpenführer later tweets what might appear to be regrets about what he has said or done is not any kind of indication that he is feeling anything, let alone remorse. Those tweets will be what he has been TOLD to tweet; coached by his advisors that what he originally said or did makes him look band. He has to be told what makes him look bad because as a narcissist, he is incapable of understanding that for himself.
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920

Last edited by smartcooky; 16th November 2018 at 12:03 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 12:05 PM   #284
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 9,659
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
He also claimed he wrote his written answers to Mueller's questions, not his lawyers. Riiiiiiiiiiiiight, Donnie. Sure ya did.
Oh FSM, please let that be true; let that be one of the rare things he hasn't lied about.
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 12:10 PM   #285
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,252
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Oh FSM, please let that be true; let that be one of the rare things he hasn't lied about.
Bad news:
This is false. A team of his lawyers are writing them.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 12:12 PM   #286
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,126
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Oh FSM, please let that be true; let that be one of the rare things he hasn't lied about.
partially true:

he got to draw a picture for Mueller using non-toxic crayons.
__________________
Opinion is divided on the subject. All the others say it is; I say it isn’t.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 12:31 PM   #287
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 18,042
Trump Tweets

"People are not being told that the Republican Party is on track to pick up two seats in the U.S. Senate, and epic victory: 53 to 47. The Fake News Media only wants to speak of the House, were the Midterm results were better than other sitting Presidents."
Captain_Swoop is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 12:44 PM   #288
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 18,987
I actually totally believe Trump when he says he writing his own answers to Mueller's questions. I also believe his lawyers are shredding them as fast as they can while turning in the ones they've written. It's not Trump's ever going to know the difference.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 01:09 PM   #289
alfaniner
Penultimate Amazing
 
alfaniner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 18,814
Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
It's because he can't remember what he said last month. Or last week. Or yesterday. Or even what he said at the start of his current sentence. It all seems to be a constant flow-of-conscience from an unfiltered narcissist's degrading brain.
It's really apparent when you read a transcript of his live, non-teleprompter-fed comments. He often says things three times in a row, with very little variation.
__________________
Science is self-correcting.
Woo is self-contradicting.
alfaniner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 01:12 PM   #290
Silly Green Monkey
Cowardly Lurking in the Shadows of Greatness
 
Silly Green Monkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,424
Trump supporters can't seem to tell. I complained about it and he first said "what, no he doesn't!" and then said "would you prefer he used a *teleprompter*??" and seemed shocked that I said yes. Tools are meant to be used.
__________________
Normal is just a stereotype.
Silly Green Monkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 01:40 PM   #291
Armitage72
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,301
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
This is why he regards a few thousand destitute and malnourished men, women and children as an existential threat to the United States (notice how the "caravan" has suddenly disappeared off the reporting of Faux News?)

Why does this seem so familiar?
Oh yeah. The Ground Zero Mosque, which was neither at Ground Zero nor a mosque, but which was a grave threat and insult to America right up until the day after the election.
Armitage72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 02:02 PM   #292
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
He knows his target audience.
Himself.


Seriously, that is his target audience. He says thing that match his fantasy world where he is the would be king.

The other target audience, his base, is anyone that adores him so no doubt those same messages appeal to them.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 16th November 2018 at 02:04 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 02:15 PM   #293
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 22,257
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No. The VA has been a rolling dumpster fire for a good while now, the only thing any politicians has ever cared about in regards to veterans is their ability to be used as a talking point, and for all the "President Bonespurs" jokes it's not like military service has really been a big part of any President's background for a while now.
Those jokes aren't about a lack of military service, though, they're about making up a medical condition in order to dodge the draft.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 02:20 PM   #294
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 22,257
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
No, he's not worried at all.

You're forgetting that he is a narcissist. By the very nature of this mental affliction, he is totally incapable of feeling sympathy for anyone other than himself. Narcissists see and admire only their own reflection; no-one else's! They are only ever the victims of injustices, never the perpetrators.

This is why he feels nothing when ordering children to be ripped away (and kept away) from their parents, and locked up in cages.

This is why he regards a few thousand destitute and malnourished men, women and children as an existential threat to the United States (notice how the "caravan" has suddenly disappeared off the reporting of Faux News?)

This is why he expresses criticism of the victims of the California wildfires, blaming them for poor forest management, when the fires actually started in forests that were under Federal management, making it ultimately HIS responsibility.

This is why he travelled to Pittsburgh while the families of the victims of the Or L'Simcha shootings were trying to bury their dead even though he was urged not to do so - because he has no sympathy for the victims - its all about him!

This is why he insults the fallen soldiers of the US, by skipping the commemorations - it was raining and his hair might get wet.

That Der Trumpenführer later tweets what might appear to be regrets about what he has said or done is not any kind of indication that he is feeling anything, let alone remorse. Those tweets will be what he has been TOLD to tweet; coached by his advisors that what he originally said or did makes him look band. He has to be told what makes him look bad because as a narcissist, he is incapable of understanding that for himself.
Yes, but he'd only do what he's told because he's worried about losing his power. Losing the military vote is one step towards that happening. In fact, if the military no longer support him, then their friends and family may no longer support him, and nor might the people who respect the military.

I wonder how much losing the military would actually eat in to Trump's support. I'd bet that he and his advisers think it's significant enough to try to do damage control.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 02:22 PM   #295
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 22,257
FWIW, I've not seen a primary source on this, but I've seen it alleged that Trump's answers to Mueller's questions will mostly consist of quotes that are already in the public domain. I'd guess that his lawyers will be doing so in the hopes that this will avoid any contradictions.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 02:25 PM   #296
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 14,671
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I wonder how much losing the military would actually eat in to Trump's support. I'd bet that he and his advisers think it's significant enough to try to do damage control.
1,280,000 active duty, 800,000 reservist, 20 million veterans, and I can't find any hard statistics on this but I figure what, 2-3 million is a safe broad guesstimate for "Military Family Members" kind of thing

I'd say 25 million people who consider themselves "Military" or Military Related in some fashion is probably in the ballpark. Slightly more than the population of Florida. That's a demographic to be sure, but it's impossible to tell how much of unified voting demographic they are, especially since the military tends to skew young.
__________________
"Ernest Hemingway once wrote that the world is a fine place and worth fighting for. I agree with the second part." - Detective Sommerset, Se7en

"Stupidity does not cancel out stupidity to yield genius. It breeds like a bucket-full of coked out hamsters." - The Oatmeal
JoeMorgue is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 02:27 PM   #297
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,063
Coal lobbyist to take over EPA permanently:
Quote:
President Trump said Friday that he intends to nominate former industry lobbyist Andrew Wheeler as the Environmental Protection Agency’s next administrator, a move that would ensure a continued deregulatory push at the agency.

Trump made the impromptu announcement during a Medal of Freedom ceremony at the White House, saying that Wheeler had done a “fantastic job” as the agency’s acting administrator in recent months. Wheeler took the helm in early July after Scott Pruitt resigned amid mounting ethics scandals.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/energ...?noredirect=on
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 02:31 PM   #298
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,213
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I actually totally believe Trump when he says he writing his own answers to Mueller's questions. I also believe his lawyers are shredding them as fast as they can while turning in the ones they've written. It's not Trump's ever going to know the difference.
He can write?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 02:46 PM   #299
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,814
And in a more unusual twist of fate:

From: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...k-mercury-rule
A leading US energy company is lobbying against the Trump administration’s move to roll back a major Obama-era environmental regulation, arguing that weakening a rule on mercury emissions would potentially kill jobs...

Seems strange... a company actually thinks removal of regulations is a bad thing. And I think everyone here recognizes that mercury is not a good thing to have in the environment. I wonder why the Trump administration would be so eager to roll back regulations that even many companies think is a good thing?

The Trump administration’s effort to change the mercury rule...is seen as benefitting one company in particular: Murray Energy Company, one of the largest US coal companies. Murray, which is controlled by Robert Murray, a major donor to Trump’s inauguration events...

Oh, THAT explains it.

Don't worry. I'm sure the courts will help protect everyone.

The coal industry already challenged the mercury rule and lost its case in 2014. One judge on the DC circuit, Brett Kavanaugh, who was recently confirmed to the supreme court, dissented in that case...

Oh oh.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 02:53 PM   #300
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 19,722
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I actually totally believe Trump when he says he writing his own answers to Mueller's questions. I also believe his lawyers are shredding them as fast as they can while turning in the ones they've written. It's not Trump's ever going to know the difference.
That one I can believe.
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 02:54 PM   #301
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 17,531
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
He can write?
It's in crayon
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Gidget, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 02:56 PM   #302
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 19,722
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
And in a more unusual twist of fate:

From: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...k-mercury-rule
A leading US energy company is lobbying against the Trump administration’s move to roll back a major Obama-era environmental regulation, arguing that weakening a rule on mercury emissions would potentially kill jobs...

Seems strange... a company actually thinks removal of regulations is a bad thing. And I think everyone here recognizes that mercury is not a good thing to have in the environment. I wonder why the Trump administration would be so eager to roll back regulations that even many companies think is a good thing?

The Trump administration’s effort to change the mercury rule...is seen as benefitting one company in particular: Murray Energy Company, one of the largest US coal companies. Murray, which is controlled by Robert Murray, a major donor to Trump’s inauguration events...

Oh, THAT explains it.

Don't worry. I'm sure the courts will help protect everyone.

The coal industry already challenged the mercury rule and lost its case in 2014. One judge on the DC circuit, Brett Kavanaugh, who was recently confirmed to the supreme court, dissented in that case...

Oh oh.
Having worked in two different manufacturing industries (communications electronics, and specialty chemicals), I can tell you that the existence of regulations is a curse for time to market, and a blessing for sales.
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 03:21 PM   #303
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,814
Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
Quote:
A leading US energy company is lobbying against the Trump administration’s move to roll back a major Obama-era environmental regulation, arguing that weakening a rule on mercury emissions would potentially kill jobs...
Having worked in two different manufacturing industries (communications electronics, and specialty chemicals), I can tell you that the existence of regulations is a curse for time to market, and a blessing for sales.
I figure the issue of sunk costs would probably be a part of it... if you've already invested in complying with a regulation, you don't want to see the money you invested as somehow being a "loss" (especially if there are other companies who have not yet complied with the regulations, or who may backslide, and thus undercut you financially.)
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 03:57 PM   #304
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 18,042
Trump on the court decision over reporters pass

“We are writing up rules and regulations to make a position. I think you were treated very unfairly, and both of you, unfairly, because you have somebody interrupting you, and if they don’t listen to rules and regulations, we will end up back in court, and we will win.
But more importantly, we’ll just leave. And then you won’t be very happy because we do get good ratings.
Decorum. You can’t take three and four questions and just stand up and not sit down. You have to practice decorum.
You were there. You understood. And you understand. We want total freedom of the press.
That’s very important to me. More important to me and anybody would believe but you have to act with respect.
You are in the White House. When I see the way some of my people get treated at press conferences, it is terrible.
We are setting up a certain standard which is what the court is requesting. But that’s the way it is. And we always have the option of just leaving.
You know? If we feel that things aren’t being treated properly, that people aren’t being treated properly, we always have the right to leave and I think the other media, the other press in the room will not be very happy if that happens and I instructed my people when they’re not treated properly, you have the right to just leave.
It's not a big deal. What they (the court) said, though, is that we have to create rules and regulations for conduct, etcetera. We're going to write them up. It's not a big deal. If he misbehaves, we'll throw him out."

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 16th November 2018 at 04:03 PM.
Captain_Swoop is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 04:05 PM   #305
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
FWIW, I've not seen a primary source on this, but I've seen it alleged that Trump's answers to Mueller's questions will mostly consist of quotes that are already in the public domain. I'd guess that his lawyers will be doing so in the hopes that this will avoid any contradictions.


There's a Tweet for everything no matter which side of the line the answer lies.


Oou, a pun without trying.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 04:07 PM   #306
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
And in a more unusual twist of fate:

From: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...k-mercury-rule
A leading US energy company is lobbying against the Trump administration’s move to roll back a major Obama-era environmental regulation, arguing that weakening a rule on mercury emissions would potentially kill jobs...

Seems strange... a company actually thinks removal of regulations is a bad thing. And I think everyone here recognizes that mercury is not a good thing to have in the environment. I wonder why the Trump administration would be so eager to roll back regulations that even many companies think is a good thing?

The Trump administration’s effort to change the mercury rule...is seen as benefitting one company in particular: Murray Energy Company, one of the largest US coal companies. Murray, which is controlled by Robert Murray, a major donor to Trump’s inauguration events...

Oh, THAT explains it.

Don't worry. I'm sure the courts will help protect everyone.

The coal industry already challenged the mercury rule and lost its case in 2014. One judge on the DC circuit, Brett Kavanaugh, who was recently confirmed to the supreme court, dissented in that case...

Oh oh.
Wow.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 04:12 PM   #307
LSSBB
Devilish Dictionarian
 
LSSBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 19,722
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I figure the issue of sunk costs would probably be a part of it... if you've already invested in complying with a regulation, you don't want to see the money you invested as somehow being a "loss" (especially if there are other companies who have not yet complied with the regulations, or who may backslide, and thus undercut you financially.)
Actually, it's an opening for opportunities. Often for a business to meet regulations, it will need to buy someone else's goods and services to make that hapoen.
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles
LSSBB is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 04:49 PM   #308
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 22,257
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
1,280,000 active duty, 800,000 reservist, 20 million veterans, and I can't find any hard statistics on this but I figure what, 2-3 million is a safe broad guesstimate for "Military Family Members" kind of thing

I'd say 25 million people who consider themselves "Military" or Military Related in some fashion is probably in the ballpark. Slightly more than the population of Florida. That's a demographic to be sure, but it's impossible to tell how much of unified voting demographic they are, especially since the military tends to skew young.
I think you're underestimating the families. But I wasn't trying to suggest that everybody would turn on him, it's just that every time he disrespects the military more people actually affiliated with the military are going to go "you know what? I don't want to vote for this guy again". And I'd have thought that nobody would care more about honouring dead soldiers than other soldiers.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 05:25 PM   #309
Armitage72
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,301
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Seems strange... a company actually thinks removal of regulations is a bad thing.

I haven't been able to find a citation, but during my recent annual HAZWOPER refresher, the instructor told us that the Trump administration had filed a lawsuit to compel OSHA to roll-back the implementation of GHS as part of the hazard communication regulation. It's an international standard for the hazard information on chemical labels and safety data sheets. The rationale for the suit was that converting to GHS would cost companies too much money.
A trade organization representing multiple major chemical manufacturers has filed a counter suit to block Trump's suit ... because the changeover to GHS was finished three years ago, and it would cost a fortune to revert back to the old regulations.
Armitage72 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 05:34 PM   #310
Tsukasa Buddha
Other (please write in)
 
Tsukasa Buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NeverLand
Posts: 14,905
Emoluments case keeps moving:

Quote:
A federal judge in Maryland will allow Maryland and D.C. officials access to the Trump Organization’s business records, dealing another blow to President Donald Trump’s effort to stop a lawsuit claiming his -- and his family’s -- ownership of a Washington, D.C., hotel have put him at odds with the Constitution's prohibition on government officials accepting payments from foreign states without permission from Congress.

...

Senior U.S. District Court Judge Peter Messitte on Friday denied the Justice Department’s request to put the case on hold while the administration seeks an appeal, and he ordered the plaintiffs to present a schedule for accessing hotel records and other confidential materials within 20 days.

In a memorandum supporting his decision, the judge emphasized his continued disagreement with the Trump administration's interpretation of the Constitution's Emoluments Clause, enacted out of concern officials overseas might take gifts or bribes. “Even now it remains unclear, as it did in connection with the President’s original motion to dismiss, exactly how he came to his view of the meaning of ‘emolument,’” the judge wrote.

“What he said in his Motion to Dismiss and repeats now is that the President would have to receive payments for his services as President for the payments to qualify as prohibited ‘emoluments,’ Messitte added. "By every reasonable metric, this appears to describe what is tantamount to a bribe, so above all else the President’s definition of the term ‘emolument’ is exceedingly strained.”
Linky.
__________________
As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn
Tsukasa Buddha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 05:50 PM   #311
Ladewig
I lost an avatar bet.
 
Ladewig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 26,067
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
No, he's not worried at all.

You're forgetting that he is a narcissist. By the very nature of this mental affliction, he is totally incapable of feeling sympathy for anyone other than himself. Narcissists see and admire only their own reflection; no-one else's! They are only ever the victims of injustices, never the perpetrators.

This is why he feels nothing when ordering children to be ripped away (and kept away) from their parents, and locked up in cages.

This is why he regards a few thousand destitute and malnourished men, women and children as an existential threat to the United States (notice how the "caravan" has suddenly disappeared off the reporting of Faux News?)

This is why he expresses criticism of the victims of the California wildfires, blaming them for poor forest management, when the fires actually started in forests that were under Federal management, making it ultimately HIS responsibility.

This is why he travelled to Pittsburgh while the families of the victims of the Or L'Simcha shootings were trying to bury their dead even though he was urged not to do so - because he has no sympathy for the victims - its all about him!

This is why he insults the fallen soldiers of the US, by skipping the commemorations - it was raining and his hair might get wet.

That Der Trumpenführer later tweets what might appear to be regrets about what he has said or done is not any kind of indication that he is feeling anything, let alone remorse. Those tweets will be what he has been TOLD to tweet; coached by his advisors that what he originally said or did makes him look band. He has to be told what makes him look bad because as a narcissist, he is incapable of understanding that for himself.
This is why when he is in a room of schoolchildren talking about their surviving a school shooting, his handlers have to write “I hear you” on a list of things to say.

Textbook narcissism carried to the Nth degree.
__________________
I lost an avatar bet to Doghouse Reilly.
Ladewig is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 06:09 PM   #312
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,252
This should be investigated:
BREAKING: Per @WSJ just now, Pfizer will raise prices on 41 drugs they delayed over the summer to please Trump.

Now the election is over and it’s back to business.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 06:29 PM   #313
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
There are two ways to parse that: the drug companies raised prices to please Trump, or they kept them low to please Trump and now they are raising them.

It took me a minute to figure it out.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 06:35 PM   #314
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 18,042
Trump Tweets

"Isn’t it ironic that large Caravans of people are marching to our border wanting U.S.A. asylum because they are fearful of being in their country - yet they are proudly waving...."

"....their country’s flag. Can this be possible? Yes, because it is all a BIG CON, and the American taxpayer is paying for it!"
Captain_Swoop is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 06:54 PM   #315
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

"Isn’t it ironic that large Caravans of people are marching to our border wanting U.S.A. asylum because they are fearful of being in their country - yet they are proudly waving...."

"....their country’s flag. Can this be possible? Yes, because it is all a BIG CON, and the American taxpayer is paying for it!"
Now we are paying for the caravan?
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 07:05 PM   #316
Dread Pirate Roberts
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

"Isn’t it ironic that large Caravans of people are marching to our border wanting U.S.A. asylum because they are fearful of being in their country - yet they are proudly waving...."

"....their country’s flag. Can this be possible? Yes, because it is all a BIG CON, and the American taxpayer is paying for it!"
Looks like he just realized it's been reported he hasn't mentioned said caravan since the midterms.
Dread Pirate Roberts is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 07:17 PM   #317
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Roberts View Post
Looks like he just realized it's been reported he hasn't mentioned said caravan since the midterms.
After waiting a sufficient amount of time so the connection isn't obvious.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 08:41 PM   #318
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,337
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

"People are not being told that the Republican Party is on track to pick up two seats in the U.S. Senate, and epic victory: 53 to 47. The Fake News Media only wants to speak of the House, were the Midterm results were better than other sitting Presidents."
Who are these people not being told this? He's merely assuming that his attempt at spin - "What a Yuge Victory For Me In Those Easy-to-Win Senate Seats, Eh?" - is what the other side is doing. He hasn't noticed that the Dems picked up almost forty seats, exceeding the rosiest of expectations at Cook and Fivethirtyeight and even my own Pollyannnaish wishes.

It's the other side of the story he refuses to acknowledge. His only mention of the House was his insane speech basking in the losses of TWWEM(Those Who Wouldn't Embrace Me) and his threats to direct the Senate to "investigate you if you investigate me".

2 Senate seats when they were expected to win 3 is "epic". (2% pickup)
38? 35? 40? House seats with a massive swing in popular votes to The Party That Doesn't Embrace Me? That's not epic, in fact it's a non-story. Fake News! An 8% increase, by the way.

Again, though, because I tend to go on and on with Trumptopics... just who are these people who don't know that every vote results headline for two weeks has said, "Dems Win House - GOP Holds Senate"(in lefty MSM press) or "Republican Win Senate - Dems To Have House Majority" on Fox and Real Clear Politics?
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 08:44 PM   #319
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,337
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Now we are paying for the caravan?
Yes. As a comparison, we've paid as much for the caravan now that the payments are equal to or even exceed the amount that Mexico has paid for The Wall That Wasn't.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th November 2018, 08:58 PM   #320
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Yes. As a comparison, we've paid as much for the caravan now that the payments are equal to or even exceed the amount that Mexico has paid for The Wall That Wasn't.


We are on the same page I see.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:23 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.