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Old 22nd November 2018, 10:53 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Mmmm Soybeans for lunch again…
Soylent Green at this rate...
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Old 22nd November 2018, 12:08 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Soylent Green at this rate...
As long as the bodies are chlorine washed we'll be fine.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 02:11 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
In a wonderful couldn't-make-it-up moment Spain have now said they will veto the deal anyway unless the situation on Gibraltar is clarified.

Their veto is kind of irrelevant though, the deal will go through with a majority from the EU side, one country cant veto it. Spain is just grandstanding, there are elections coming up in a region bordering the Rock.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 03:33 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
Their veto is kind of irrelevant though, the deal will go through with a majority from the EU side, one country cant veto it. Spain is just grandstanding, there are elections coming up in a region bordering the Rock.
I think its more a case of Spain wanting clarification and nitpicking to make a point but they can make life very difficult in future negotiations if they are handled badly now. They could veto any future trade deal for example.
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Old 22nd November 2018, 05:49 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Ian Botham and Bob Willis once conspired to get Geoff Boycott (team captain at the time) run out in a test match.

Does that count?
Boycott is one of her inspirations.
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Old 23rd November 2018, 02:41 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Boycott is one of her inspirations.
There is a difference though. Boycott was a good batsman but a poor team captain.
May is all round poor.
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Old 23rd November 2018, 04:04 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
There is a difference though. Boycott was a good batsman but a poor team captain.
May is all round poor.
I wonder if you're both thinking of the same Boycott?
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Old 23rd November 2018, 04:25 AM   #208
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This is getting truly bizarre. Theresa May is now planning to appeal to the British public in a special radio broadcast in the hope that an expression of the will of the people will over-rule Parliament's almost certain rejection of the Brexit deal. It seems she's trying to hold an informal referendum without actually holding a referendum. The advantage, no doubt, is that she'll then feel free to claim that the public wants whatever she wants the public to want; but who's going to be fooled by that?

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Old 23rd November 2018, 04:44 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Nah, couldn't get into it - seemed even more talky than 1990's slower bits. I may give it another try at some point we can't afford to do anything other than sit at home watching TV, though.

I would recommend Knights of God, though.
Ah, Thomas and Troughton.
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Old 23rd November 2018, 04:47 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Soylent Green at this rate...
Dole Yeast.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 23rd November 2018, 04:55 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Boycott is one of her inspirations.
Not perhaps the best one.
Quote:
...with the relief expedition [of Orangmen], and it was reckoned that it had cost up to £10,000 to save a harvest worth at most £350.
The Connaught Telegraph gave extensive coverage to the episode and, under the heading ‘OUR INVADERS’, James Daly recorded the miserable state of the rain-sodden volunteers and soldiers and, as was his wont, called for restraint by hotheads to avoid any danger of bloodshed.
Boycott died a bankrupt; his wife was sued over his funeral expenses.
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Old 23rd November 2018, 05:33 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Ah, Thomas and Troughton.
Plus John Woodvine and Julian Fellowes!

Sadly, unlikely to ever get a DVD/Blu-Ray release because... rights issues.
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Old 23rd November 2018, 07:11 AM   #213
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Interesting article on the proposed deal here:

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2018...on-for-britain
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Old 23rd November 2018, 07:34 AM   #214
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Interesting collection of quotes gleaned from Twitter

“There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside.”
David Davis
10 October 2016

“Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards.”
John Redwood
July 17 2016

“The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.”
Liam Fox
20 July 2017

“We're not really interested in a transition deal, but we'll consider one to be kind to the EU.”
David Davis
15 November 2016

“I believe that we can get a free trade and customs agreement concluded before March 2019.”
David Davis
18 January 2017

“Indeed, [a trade deal] would take significantly less than two years. We hold all the cards. We will offer them a deal in response to their pleas for help.”
Patrick Minford
14 June 2016

“I am not worried about transitional arrangements. I am prepared to take the economic hit to secure the economic benefits of not being inside the Single Market and being outside the Customs Union. I simply want... a quickie divorce.”
Michael Gove
17 November 2016

“We are going to get a deal which is of huge value and possibly of greater value.”
Boris Johnson
16 November 2016

“Within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU. The new trade agreements will come into force at the point of exit, but they will be fully negotiated.”
David Davis
14 July 2016

“Trade relations with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee.”
Gerard Batten
17 February 2017

“Within minutes of a vote for Brexit, CEOs would be knocking down Chancellor Merkel’s door demanding access to the British market.”
David Davis
4 February 2016

“The cost of getting out would be virtually nil and the cost of staying in would be very high.”
Boris Johnson
6 March 2016

“I think we could very easily get a better trade deal than we have at the moment.”
Douglas Carswell
8 June 2016

“All David Davis needs to say to is: listen guys free trade or WTO?”
Tim Martin
2 January 2017

"It will be easy to negotiate a trade deal. It's in the EU's interests."
Paul Nutall
17 January 2017

"Nobody ever pretended this would be simple or easy."
David Davis
5 September 2017

“If we need to leave with no deal and negotiate a free trade agreement during the transition period, so be it.” [If we leave with no deal, there is no transition period]
David Davis
November 2017
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Old 23rd November 2018, 08:11 AM   #215
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I see that, as a nation, we've apparently decided that the criminal irregularities within the leave campaign aren't important.


When implementing 'the will of the people' (tm)...
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Old 23rd November 2018, 08:36 AM   #216
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Dominic Raab, Minister for Suddenly Realising the Bleeding Obvious

Dominic Raab-Theresa May's deal worse than staying in EU

Next week he'll give a breathless interview to the Telegraph about his shocking discovery that water is, in fact, wet.
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Old 23rd November 2018, 12:25 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
Interesting collection of quotes gleaned from Twitter

“There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside.”
David Davis
10 October 2016

“Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards.”
John Redwood
July 17 2016

“The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.”
Liam Fox
20 July 2017

“We're not really interested in a transition deal, but we'll consider one to be kind to the EU.”
David Davis
15 November 2016

“I believe that we can get a free trade and customs agreement concluded before March 2019.”
David Davis
18 January 2017

“Indeed, [a trade deal] would take significantly less than two years. We hold all the cards. We will offer them a deal in response to their pleas for help.”
Patrick Minford
14 June 2016

“I am not worried about transitional arrangements. I am prepared to take the economic hit to secure the economic benefits of not being inside the Single Market and being outside the Customs Union. I simply want... a quickie divorce.”
Michael Gove
17 November 2016

“We are going to get a deal which is of huge value and possibly of greater value.”
Boris Johnson
16 November 2016

“Within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU. The new trade agreements will come into force at the point of exit, but they will be fully negotiated.”
David Davis
14 July 2016

“Trade relations with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee.”
Gerard Batten
17 February 2017

“Within minutes of a vote for Brexit, CEOs would be knocking down Chancellor Merkel’s door demanding access to the British market.”
David Davis
4 February 2016

“The cost of getting out would be virtually nil and the cost of staying in would be very high.”
Boris Johnson
6 March 2016

“I think we could very easily get a better trade deal than we have at the moment.”
Douglas Carswell
8 June 2016

“All David Davis needs to say to is: listen guys free trade or WTO?”
Tim Martin
2 January 2017

"It will be easy to negotiate a trade deal. It's in the EU's interests."
Paul Nutall
17 January 2017

"Nobody ever pretended this would be simple or easy."
David Davis
5 September 2017

“If we need to leave with no deal and negotiate a free trade agreement during the transition period, so be it.” [If we leave with no deal, there is no transition period]
David Davis
November 2017
It's a shame there is not a 'like' button.
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Old 23rd November 2018, 02:52 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
I think its more a case of Spain wanting clarification and nitpicking to make a point but they can make life very difficult in future negotiations if they are handled badly now. They could veto any future trade deal for example.
I disagree. This issue always comes up when this or that election comes up in Spain. The EU want a deal, they want trade to continue with the UK, Spain on its own is just the equivalent of Rees-Mogg loudly complaining in the corner. No-one really cares, they will just get a pat on the head and things will continue.
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Old 23rd November 2018, 03:19 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
Interesting collection of quotes gleaned from Twitter
Well you have to be fair, its not like David Davis and co. believed any of the nonsense they were spouting.
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Old 24th November 2018, 03:55 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by RolandRat View Post
I disagree. This issue always comes up when this or that election comes up in Spain. The EU want a deal, they want trade to continue with the UK, Spain on its own is just the equivalent of Rees-Mogg loudly complaining in the corner. No-one really cares, they will just get a pat on the head and things will continue.
Not when it comes to a future trade deal it isn't. They could veto it. Which is why I say you don't want to annoy them at this stage. Especially when the EU knows that the UK is basically desperate right now.
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Old 24th November 2018, 04:17 AM   #221
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In an “extraordinary” response to a freedom of information request from openDemocracy, the Home Office refused to confirm or deny whether it holds any material from 2016 about Leave.EU and Banks. The department said that doing so “would impede the future formulation of government policy”.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/bre...over-brexit-do
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Old 24th November 2018, 04:34 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
In an “extraordinary” response to a freedom of information request from openDemocracy, the Home Office refused to confirm or deny whether it holds any material from 2016 about Leave.EU and Banks. The department said that doing so “would impede the future formulation of government policy”.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/bre...over-brexit-do
It's not just Banks, either. There's a row brewing over Steve Baker and the funds fed into the DUP.
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Old 24th November 2018, 04:41 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
In an “extraordinary” response to a freedom of information request from openDemocracy, the Home Office refused to confirm or deny whether it holds any material from 2016 about Leave.EU and Banks. The department said that doing so “would impede the future formulation of government policy”.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/bre...over-brexit-do
Which just sums thing up really. We don't want to investigate, we don't want to tell anyone why and we don't want anyone to know anything about anything. Its almost impossible to hold anyone to account for anything.
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Old 24th November 2018, 07:24 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Which just sums thing up really. We don't want to investigate, we don't want to tell anyone why and we don't want anyone to know anything about anything. Its almost impossible to hold anyone to account for anything.
I expect the department can expect another trip to court in the near future and given this governments record with court case and Brexit I would assume those records will be public in due course.
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Old 24th November 2018, 07:35 AM   #225
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Looking at the future arrangement document there seems to be some bumps in the road ahead or yet again people in denial about what the document says.

It appears to be explicit that future travel arrangements will be based on reciprocity and non-discrimination of Eu states. This absolutely and clearly means that the CTA would have to be abolished.
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Old 24th November 2018, 07:55 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Looking at the future arrangement document there seems to be some bumps in the road ahead or yet again people in denial about what the document says.

It appears to be explicit that future travel arrangements will be based on reciprocity and non-discrimination of Eu states. This absolutely and clearly means that the CTA would have to be abolished.
Speaking of travel: think of the future chaos of everybody in the UK having to send back their driving licences and passports, to get the EU logo and hologram removed therefrom.
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Old 24th November 2018, 08:11 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Which just sums thing up really. We don't want to investigate, we don't want to tell anyone why and we don't want anyone to know anything about anything. Its almost impossible to hold anyone to account for anything.
https://dialmformueller.com

Originally Posted by DialMForMeuller
From the team behind the No 1 Hit podcast, Untold: the Daniel Morgan Murder, comes another inside story of a crime - in this case the hacking, data misuse, illegal financing and potential interference in the EU referendum. Orwell Prize-winning Observer journalist Carole Cadwalladr lays out the evidence with Peter Jukes and asks: why hasn't the UK got a proper investigation into wrongdoing?
If you're on twitter it's seriously worth following https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla
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Old 24th November 2018, 08:18 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
Looking at the future arrangement document there seems to be some bumps in the road ahead or yet again people in denial about what the document says.

It appears to be explicit that future travel arrangements will be based on reciprocity and non-discrimination of Eu states. This absolutely and clearly means that the CTA would have to be abolished.
That'll be fun, if it happens. One or two problems. In many of the border areas, most people on both sides of the line hold RoI passports. The loyalist unionists, most of whom hold only UK passports I think, will be restricted in their movements, but "Fenian terrorists" will be able to roam the whole island unchecked. Is that what Foster wants to see?

Last edited by Craig B; 24th November 2018 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 24th November 2018, 08:38 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
https://dialmformueller.com



If you're on twitter it's seriously worth following https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla

Ah, yes. The will of the Putin...
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Old 24th November 2018, 09:03 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by Archie Gemmill Goal View Post
It appears to be explicit that future travel arrangements will be based on reciprocity and non-discrimination of Eu states. This absolutely and clearly means that the CTA would have to be abolished.
Could you post the exact wording relating to this? A strong legal argument could be made that the CTA - long-predating the EU - is a "special case."
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Old 24th November 2018, 09:11 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Could you post the exact wording relating to this? A strong legal argument could be made that the CTA - long-predating the EU - is a "special case."
I can do it.

Quote:
Travelling in the Common Travel Area if there’s no Brexit deal
Confirmation that the Common Travel Area arrangements and the associated rights and privileges of British and Irish citizens are protected if the UK leaves the EU with no deal.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...no-brexit-deal
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:36 AM   #232
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After Brexit the UK will run out of Mars bars within two weeks. And much more:
According to a person who has been briefed on DEFRA’s internal discussions on no deal, officials are forecasting that the disruption to food imports and exports could last for more than six months, leading to shortages on supermarket shelves and putting enormous financial pressure on businesses that depend on exports to the EU.
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Old 24th November 2018, 11:13 AM   #233
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i think its paragraph 51 on mobility if you can find it otherwise i will look later. There are no mentions of special cases in the text.
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Old 24th November 2018, 11:14 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
im not talking about a no deal brexit. im talking about the deal that has been agreed.
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Old 24th November 2018, 02:02 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Could you post the exact wording relating to this? A strong legal argument could be made that the CTA - long-predating the EU - is a "special case."
I think this is the text of the paragraph i'm referring to.

"Other aspects of mobility, based on non-*‐discrimination between the Union's Member States and reciprocity, including visa-*‐free travel for short-*‐term visits."

Quite clear to me... rules on mobility must be non-discriminatory between the EU member states. So you can't offer visa-free travel to Germany but not to Romania. And by the same token you can't have a CTA with only Ireland if the wording of this clause is adhered to.
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Old 24th November 2018, 02:08 PM   #236
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And Spain have got what they wanted with regards Gibraltar as well. Sterling work from UK negotiators.
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Old 24th November 2018, 08:52 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Soylent Green at this rate...
I so hope there will still be Pete's Red Hot Sauce in the future.
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Old 25th November 2018, 04:25 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I so hope there will still be Pete's Red Hot Sauce in the future.
At least Wiltshire Chilli Farms will be inside the cordon. Their hot sauce will make rat on a stick cooked over a dumpster fire much more palatable. (I'm joking of course, around my way we have plenty of squirrels, rabbits and tourists. Note to self, get out slingshot and bow, stockpile some ammo and arrows and practice)
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Old 25th November 2018, 05:02 AM   #239
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So they've finalized the draft agreement, which seems to agree nothing except to agree everything after the UK leaves the EU. there's a lot of bland aspirations and platitudes that May will doubtless spin as a victory but the truth is a hard Brexit is still very much on the table. The BBC gives some analysis of the fluff here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46303751

Quote:
...A few points to remember…
This is not a legally binding document.
It's not very long either, but it has grown from last week's seven-page outline to 26 pages. It sits alongside the 585-page Draft Withdrawal Agreement (which will be legally binding if it gets ratified).
This is also a draft, agreed by negotiators, but it still needs to be approved by the leaders of all 28 EU countries at a summit scheduled to take place on Sunday. Don't expect major changes.
Formal negotiations on everything it contains can only begin after Brexit has actually happened - currently after 29 March 2019...
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Old 25th November 2018, 05:33 AM   #240
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Can someone explain to me how we could have a frictionless border with Ireland even if we had a free trade agreement with the EU?

Surely free trade doesn't mean no borders?
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