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Old 24th November 2018, 09:00 AM   #41
Foolmewunz
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
They fly wherever you find amanita muscaria mushrooms, of course, silly. Reindeer love the stuff.

Specific to the ecosystems and microfungal connections found only around the birch, pine and fir, which are usually found together.

Where the reindeer roam.
Ah, so they fly in their imagination, then. So all the city of Auckland has to do is imagine a female Santa, then.

Like a number of us have said, it's a made up story. Why not make it up to fit the mores of a modern time? (That's rhetorical... the people so upset about this simply don't want to actually join modern society, but want to roll things back to times they're more comfortable with like the late 19th century.)
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Old 24th November 2018, 09:07 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Ah, so they fly in their imagination, then. So all the city of Auckland has to do is imagine a female Santa, then.

Like a number of us have said, it's a made up story. Why not make it up to fit the mores of a modern time? (That's rhetorical... the people so upset about this simply don't want to actually join modern society, but want to roll things back to times they're more comfortable with like the late 19th century.)
Ah, but given the ancient traditions, the guy choosing to replicate isn't necessarily being sexist and racist in depicting Father Christmas as a jovial old guy with concomitant white hair (although, OTOH he might be). There should be no problem in Father Christmas being depicted as 'Mother Christmas', of any skin tone or age you like. He or she could even be mean.
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Old 24th November 2018, 09:18 AM   #43
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Who feeds the reindeer all their hay?
Who wraps the gifts and packs the sleigh?
Who's helping Santa every day?
Mrs. Santa Claus

Who keeps his red suit looking nice?
Who does he turn to for advice?
Who gives the brownies all their spice?
Mrs. Santa Claus

She pitter-patters all around the workshop
The whole year long
Amid the happy clatter of the workshop
She sings a merry, merry Christmas song

Who reads the notes from girls and boys?
Turns in the order for their toys?
Fills every heart with wondrous joys?
Mrs. Santa Claus

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
He or she could even be mean.

Now don't be going and culturally appropriating Krampus.
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Old 24th November 2018, 11:13 AM   #44
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In any case the Arctic Centre for Disease Control (AC/DC) has enforced a quarantine and there will be no flying reindeer. Indeed Rudolf has almost certainly been put down, a red nose being a symptom of chronic wasting disease.
https://www.nature.com/news/deadly-a...europe-1.19759
The only likely explanation for the spread of CWD from the moose population of North America to the European reindeer population is the annual round the world migration of a certain 'flock' of reindeer. This year NORAD will be having a significantly more pro-active approach than its usual passive observations ensuring US borders are secured from disease carrying bovids.
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Old 24th November 2018, 11:22 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You would have a point if the SJW's weren't such hypocrites

For example the outrage when they thought the person in the the new batwoman movie wasn't being played by a lesbian etc
First off, I agree with you that the store is inane.

As for the above, could you at least (factually) pin the hypocrisy down on an individual? Or a particular organization? When you accuse the entirety of a large, ill-defined group -- actual and imagined -- with hypocrisy, it's so blunt as to be meaningless.
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Old 24th November 2018, 11:39 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by gerdbonk View Post
What the hell is an "authentic" Santa? The role is utter fiction.
Try telling that to the pundits on Fox News whenever the notion of a "black Santa" comes up. It's hilarious to watch.
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Old 24th November 2018, 11:46 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Firstly, let's compromise by keeping Santa male but making him a drag queen.
For what it's worth, my impression on first reading of the article was that the hypothetical women this guy declared he would refuse to hire, would still be wearing a beard and otherwise look like a "typical Santa"; it's just the actors themselves that would be female; e.g. Mary Martin depicting a male Peter Pan.
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Old 24th November 2018, 12:03 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Lousy freaking minorities should get with the program and assimilate!! Don't change my culture!!

Lousy freaking minorities should never expect to be seen as part of the same culture!! Goes against tradition!!

Assimilate!! But never show up in anything reflecting today's society, geez. What is it with these invading non-whites and non-males? Don't they know it's "white men forever?" Just sit back, see nothing on display that includes you, and be a good, faithful follower.

Whiteness and sameness, forever and ever, amen. God bless us... except the dark children of Ham or uppity women, who are extra-bad sinners and not covered by the same grace... that excuses me from all responsibility for this mess of a planet.


It is like Sam Kinnison talking about Viet Nam, except it is about Santa Claus

That is fantastic.
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Old 24th November 2018, 12:55 PM   #49
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Santa is a bloke. A big, white, bearded, jolly bloke with red chaffs, not a one-legged black dwarf lesbian with ADHD or any other such nonsense. Suck it up.
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Old 24th November 2018, 03:10 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
For what it's worth, my impression on first reading of the article was that the hypothetical women this guy declared he would refuse to hire, would still be wearing a beard and otherwise look like a "typical Santa"; it's just the actors themselves that would be female; e.g. Mary Martin depicting a male Peter Pan.

The costumes for female Santas don't seem to come with a beard, which is weird considering that their reindeer costumes seem to include the antlers.
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Old 24th November 2018, 03:22 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Santa is a bloke. A big, white, bearded, jolly bloke with red chaffs, not a one-legged black dwarf lesbian with ADHD or any other such nonsense. Suck it up.
What about hot blonde in bikini ?
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Old 24th November 2018, 03:29 PM   #52
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The parade has been posponed because of rain.

See. Even god says Santa is a geezer and got annoyed.
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Old 24th November 2018, 03:29 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Santa is a bloke. A big, white, bearded, jolly bloke with red chaffs, not a one-legged black dwarf lesbian with ADHD or any other such nonsense. Suck it up.
A few years ago people were saying the same thing about James Bond not being blond.
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Old 24th November 2018, 03:40 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
In any case the Arctic Centre for Disease Control (AC/DC) has enforced a quarantine and there will be no flying reindeer. Indeed Rudolf has almost certainly been put down, a red nose being a symptom of chronic wasting disease.
https://www.nature.com/news/deadly-a...europe-1.19759
The only likely explanation for the spread of CWD from the moose population of North America to the European reindeer population is the annual round the world migration of a certain 'flock' of reindeer. This year NORAD will be having a significantly more pro-active approach than its usual passive observations ensuring US borders are secured from disease carrying bovids.
If you hurry down to Rotherhithe this weekend for the Scandinavian Christmas Market (the Finnish and Norwegian Churches and outside) you might be able to procure your very own reindeer hide. Who knows? It might once have been Rudolph.
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Old 24th November 2018, 03:44 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
A few years ago people were saying the same thing about James Bond not being blond.
Personally disagree

It would be a better analogy if it was to turn James Bond into Jamie Bond.

The feisty woman with a licence to kill.
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Old 24th November 2018, 05:38 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I can feel the handwringing, SJWs moral outrage from here as they made the decision to ditch him.

They probably did a group "jazz hands"


https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-...riate-comments


I think that - as so often - the reality is a lot more nuanced than has been portrayed.

Looking at the fuller text of Neville Baker's interview (the one which resulted in the cessation of the contract with his Santa Claus company by Farmers Santa Parade in Auckland), I suspect that it's much more likely to have been the overall sexist, misogynistic tone of his comments which were the issue, rather than simply his statement that he'd refuse to hire women to play Santa Claus.

Specifically, I'd point to the part in the interview where Baker makes a misguided attempt to justify his position on no-female-hires-to-play-Santa with this zinger:

"We employ Santa's Little Helpers, and they wear a little skirt and top ... but I wouldn't put a guy in a skirt and top - right?"


I suspect that had Baker only said something like: "We don't hire women to play Santa Claus because we know that this is currently not what our audiences want or expect", there would have been no problem. And I also don't think that such a stance would ever fall foul of discrimination legislation. However, I think that it was instead the rather ugly overall tone of his comments in that interview (add in a reference to "you can't have a Santa with boobs") which - rightly - caused offence, and which led to the cessation of his contract.
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Old 24th November 2018, 05:51 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
I think that - as so often - the reality is a lot more nuanced than has been portrayed.

Looking at the fuller text of Neville Baker's interview (the one which resulted in the cessation of the contract with his Santa Claus company by Farmers Santa Parade in Auckland), I suspect that it's much more likely to have been the overall sexist, misogynistic tone of his comments which were the issue, rather than simply his statement that he'd refuse to hire women to play Santa Claus.

Specifically, I'd point to the part in the interview where Baker makes a misguided attempt to justify his position on no-female-hires-to-play-Santa with this zinger:

"We employ Santa's Little Helpers, and they wear a little skirt and top ... but I wouldn't put a guy in a skirt and top - right?"


I suspect that had Baker only said something like: "We don't hire women to play Santa Claus because we know that this is currently not what our audiences want or expect", there would have been no problem. And I also don't think that such a stance would ever fall foul of discrimination legislation. However, I think that it was instead the rather ugly overall tone of his comments in that interview (add in a reference to "you can't have a Santa with boobs") which - rightly - caused offence, and which led to the cessation of his contract.
I think you might mean "caused the person organising it" offence, but I get your point

Edit: Will be interesting to see if the replacement is a woman or comes from an organisation that hire women as Santas

Would be a bit silly otherwise
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Last edited by cullennz; 24th November 2018 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 24th November 2018, 06:45 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
I'm pretty sure you've got the outraged set wrong. SJWs? Or shocked (shocked, I say) MRAs?

I'm going with the latter and the similar groups who oppose female Thor and black Green Lantern and all-female Ghostbusters. I know a lot of SJWs and most are going to see this as just another step in the right direction. Myths, legends and bedtime stories have always been created to appeal to the group-in-power. That's shifting, so let's shift the legends. Keep the good parts of the story and ditch the outmoded ones. Little Brave Sambo became Little Brave Sambo for a reason!

But the MRAs and other reactionaries? Those types will flock to this like flies to a dog turd. "No sirree. Don't like no changes. Good enough for my grand dad to believe in then it damned well should be good enough for you!"


Did you miss the part where Santa Claus is actually a made-up story? Who has the copyright in NZ?
Yeah, everyone opposed the all female ghost busters, if they saw it.

Now tell me how plenty of people liked it, and I'll counter with the fact that the only time is mentioned is in conversations like this while most adults over 30 can still quote the originals.

You can claim to like bad films all you want , my only concern is if a film is good, not that people like myself are in it. Seems like the more sensible option really. Instead of pretending bad films deserve praise for casting lower budget actors.
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Old 24th November 2018, 07:46 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Santa is a bloke. A big, white, bearded, jolly bloke with red chaffs, not a one-legged black dwarf lesbian with ADHD or any other such nonsense. Suck it up.
Really? Can you prove the evidence for this Santa, you claim as "a white, bearded, jolly bloke," actually existing in such a manner?
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Old 24th November 2018, 07:59 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
You lie! Santa is alive and well, and living in Arctic Finland, somewhere near Rouvaniemi. FACT.
Yeah but he's probably descended from a Russian royal family and living in an area that used to belong to the Estonians and he's busy fighting for reparations over a border dispute that went badly during the pre-Christian Viking period. Too busy to give away gifts and eat our cookies.
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Old 24th November 2018, 08:21 PM   #61
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Santa might be a social construct.
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Old 24th November 2018, 08:47 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Santa might be a social construct.
Or perhaps the Santa is a construct of clay: a golem!
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Old 24th November 2018, 08:57 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Or perhaps the Santa is a construct of clay: a golem!
And of course only lives because of the magic words of a rabbi, and the golem (the OG SJW snowflake) protects the people of the ghetto from persecution.

As voiced by Samuel L. Jackson.
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Old 24th November 2018, 09:18 PM   #64
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Haha .. first world problems ..
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:02 PM   #65
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Wait a minute. Are you talking about African Reindeer or European Reindeer?
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:08 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sid View Post
Haha .. first world problems ..
Not seeing the problem. Conservative click bait outrage getting clicks. Things running smoothly.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:16 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Santa is a bloke. A big, white, bearded, jolly bloke with red chaffs, not a one-legged black dwarf lesbian with ADHD or any other such nonsense. Suck it up.
Careful so you don't cut yourself on that #edge.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:19 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Santa is a bloke. A big, white, bearded, jolly bloke with red chaffs, not a one-legged black dwarf lesbian with ADHD or any other such nonsense. Suck it up.
Santa is a fantasy. The kids at the Gay Black Children's Amputee Hospital may fantasize differently from you.

Suck it up. You're a minority. Get over it.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:19 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Personally disagree

It would be a better analogy if it was to turn James Bond into Jamie Bond.

The feisty woman with a licence to kill.
And why would that be a problem? You're aware of the fact that not all secret agents/intelligence operatives/whatever are men, right?
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:22 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The parade has been posponed because of rain.

See. Even god says Santa is a geezer and got annoyed.
You realize that citing one fantasy as verification of another is kinda circular logic? Not unlike creationists who claim the Old Testament is the Word of God because it says so right here in the Old Testament.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:23 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
And why would that be a problem? You're aware of the fact that not all secret agents/intelligence operatives/whatever are men, right?
Well for a start you'd have to deal with all the conservatives screaming about her sexual immorality and how she's a "Slut" for sleeping with three different guys throughout the movie.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:24 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Well for a start you'd have to deal with all the conservatives screaming about her sexual immorality and how she's a "Slut" for sleeping with three different guys throughout the movie.
Good point.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:27 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
Yeah, everyone opposed the all female ghost busters, if they saw it.

Now tell me how plenty of people liked it, and I'll counter with the fact that the only time is mentioned is in conversations like this while most adults over 30 can still quote the originals.

You can claim to like bad films all you want , my only concern is if a film is good, not that people like myself are in it. Seems like the more sensible option really. Instead of pretending bad films deserve praise for casting lower budget actors.
Rather pathetic, really. You just love tripping over your agenda, don't you. The big stink over Bat-Lesbian and Ghostbusterettes were/are both before the film was ever released.

Whether the film or the TV show were any good matters not. The socio-political brouhaha consisted of the usual Gamergate reactionaries and trolls, the same ones, coincidentally who objected to female Thor, black Green Lantern, and best of all.... "How come they're giving blacks their own superhero movie - the overall condemnation of the production and casting of Black Panther."

Yeah, no bias there at all. Just discerning film critics (who happen to show up in threads battling for reactionary causes at every turn). Sure. Pull the other one.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:36 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Rather pathetic, really. You just love tripping over your agenda, don't you. The big stink over Bat-Lesbian and Ghostbusterettes were/are both before the film was ever released.

Whether the film or the TV show were any good matters not. The socio-political brouhaha consisted of the usual Gamergate reactionaries and trolls, the same ones, coincidentally who objected to female Thor, black Green Lantern, and best of all.... "How come they're giving blacks their own superhero movie - the overall condemnation of the production and casting of Black Panther."

Yeah, no bias there at all. Just discerning film critics (who happen to show up in threads battling for reactionary causes at every turn). Sure. Pull the other one.
Not quite sure where the black green lantern that keeps getting mentioned comes from.

Never heard of any hooha over it, and there is a black green lantern in the actual comics
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:38 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Not quite sure where the black green lantern that keeps getting mentioned comes from.

Never heard of any hooha over it, and there is a black green lantern in the actual comics
You must be new to the internet.
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:41 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
You must be new to the internet.
The internet is a big thing.

Maybe you can find it in you heart to post a link to this major kerfuffle
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th November 2018, 10:53 PM   #77
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Is Santa a Green Lantern? That seems unlikely, they would never accept an Old One into their ranks, nor would he want to be. His own innate powers dwarf anything a power ring could offer him (which is why Sauron never got any traction on the proposed alliance either). The moral is: Santa lives in our hearts and minds and takes whatever form we lovingly imbue him with, just like his daughter Gozer the Gozerian. Merry Xmas to all, and may we all know what it is to be roasted in the depths of the Slor!
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Old 24th November 2018, 11:15 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Is Santa a Green Lantern? That seems unlikely, they would never accept an Old One into their ranks, nor would he want to be. His own innate powers dwarf anything a power ring could offer him (which is why Sauron never got any traction on the proposed alliance either). The moral is: Santa lives in our hearts and minds and takes whatever form we lovingly imbue him with, just like his daughter Gozer the Gozerian. Merry Xmas to all, and may we all know what it is to be roasted in the depths of the Slor!
At least we know that one fact will always be true

The Green Lantern would kick Superman's butt without building up a sweat.

Tbf though, only him and the Silver Surfer (probably pink or rainbow Surfer if there is ever a proper movie), are the only ones that can.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 24th November 2018, 11:25 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Not quite sure where the black green lantern that keeps getting mentioned comes from.

Never heard of any hooha over it, and there is a black green lantern in the actual comics
The black GL was a replacement for the whitest GL and possibly whitest character in comic book franchise. DC tried to exploit his squareness with a series of political diatribes pitting Green Arrow against Green Lantern and arguing about social justice, integration, etc.... It was really quite funny. After that didn't work, they had him go "heel" as they'd say in wrestling and he became the villain that wiped out half the lantern corps. Only to get rehabilitated in a "And The I Woke Up" sort of Dallas cop-out. It seems that Hal had been bitten by an evil intergalactic bug that possessed him and made him do bad stuff against his nature.

All of this took place over about twenty-five years. The end result was brought about by the first internet warriors and a whole lot of the dialogue on that site (called H*E*A*T or something like that) was the first generation of Gamergate trolls. Racist comments abounded. Hal was the original. Hal was white. Whadda we need with some ******** taking the part? (That's a recap of more than twenty years of bickering.)
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Old 24th November 2018, 11:34 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
The black GL was a replacement for the whitest GL and possibly whitest character in comic book franchise. DC tried to exploit his squareness with a series of political diatribes pitting Green Arrow against Green Lantern and arguing about social justice, integration, etc.... It was really quite funny. After that didn't work, they had him go "heel" as they'd say in wrestling and he became the villain that wiped out half the lantern corps. Only to get rehabilitated in a "And The I Woke Up" sort of Dallas cop-out. It seems that Hal had been bitten by an evil intergalactic bug that possessed him and made him do bad stuff against his nature.

All of this took place over about twenty-five years. The end result was brought about by the first internet warriors and a whole lot of the dialogue on that site (called H*E*A*T or something like that) was the first generation of Gamergate trolls. Racist comments abounded. Hal was the original. Hal was white. Whadda we need with some ******** taking the part? (That's a recap of more than twenty years of bickering.)
Aah.

Cheers

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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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