ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 25th November 2018, 02:49 AM   #81
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,203
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Really? Can you prove the evidence for this Santa, you claim as "a white, bearded, jolly bloke," actually existing in such a manner?
Er, he's a fictional character? He doesn't exist as an actual character but he does exist as a fictional character, and as such has defined and specific attributes. Is there any actual reason I'm having to explain this to you?
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 02:55 AM   #82
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,264
Originally Posted by baron View Post
Santa is a bloke. A big, white, bearded, jolly bloke with red chaffs, not a one-legged black dwarf lesbian with ADHD or any other such nonsense. Suck it up.
I'm going to have to break something to you, hope it won't be a massive blow to you but here goes. Many of the Santas you see about over the Christmas period are wearing false beards and padding!
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 02:55 AM   #83
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,264
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
A few years ago people were saying the same thing about James Bond not being blond.
And Dr Who being played by a female actor.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 02:56 AM   #84
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,203
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Rather pathetic, really. You just love tripping over your agenda, don't you. The big stink over Bat-Lesbian and Ghostbusterettes were/are both before the film was ever released.
Not so much, and little before the trailers were released, which were enough to show Ghostbusters to be the most degenerate steaming heap of faeces ever foisted upon a viewing audience, albeit one that should have known better than to show up in the first place.

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Whether the film or the TV show were any good matters not. The socio-political brouhaha consisted of the usual Gamergate reactionaries and trolls, the same ones, coincidentally who objected to female Thor, black Green Lantern, and best of all.... "How come they're giving blacks their own superhero movie - the overall condemnation of the production and casting of Black Panther."

Yeah, no bias there at all. Just discerning film critics (who happen to show up in threads battling for reactionary causes at every turn). Sure. Pull the other one.
Luckily this nonsense will soon come to an end. The discerning viewing public significantly outnumber those who are seeking to infect and destroy yet another media for their own deluded political ends.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 02:57 AM   #85
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,203
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And Dr Who being played by a female actor.
You know what sets Doctor Who apart from Santa Claus (aside from their respective involvement in gift delivery)?
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 03:01 AM   #86
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,264
Originally Posted by baron View Post
You know what sets Doctor Who apart from Santa Claus (aside from their respective involvement in gift delivery)?
One likes Fezes? (Fezi?)
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 03:17 AM   #87
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,203
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
One likes Fezes? (Fezi?)
Santa likes fezes too, just not when on duty. I was thinking more of the Dr regularly changing physical identity, meaning that his sudden appearance as a woman, or a black man, or a dwarf, could be considered part of the existing fictional narrative.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 03:43 AM   #88
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 19,841
Originally Posted by baron View Post
Er, he's a fictional character? He doesn't exist as an actual character but he does exist as a fictional character, and as such has defined and specific attributes. Is there any actual reason I'm having to explain this to you?
Being a fictional character there is no original mould upon which we cast with defined and specific attributes. Characters and myths begin with artistic licence and evolve with same in ways that serve the societies that consume them.

But why do we care so much about such change? What is lost? It looks like we are upset when the version we grew up with changes, ignoring the fact that the prototypes of the past are often alien to the one we love.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman

Last edited by Sideroxylon; 25th November 2018 at 03:48 AM.
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 03:56 AM   #89
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,091
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Being a fictional character there is no original mould upon which we cast with defined and specific attributes. Characters and myths begin with artistic licence and evolve with same in ways that serve the societies that consume them.

But why do we care so much about such change? What is lost? It looks like we are upset when the version we grew up with changes, ignoring the fact that the prototypes of the past are often alien to the one we love.
I'm guessing by your response to that you would just brush away the "confusing kids" argument, if I brought it up.

As presumably it is more important to make a few adults feel good about themselves
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 04:07 AM   #90
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,203
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Being a fictional character there is no original mould upon which we cast with defined and specific attributes. Characters and myths begin with artistic licence and evolve with same in ways that serve the societies that consume them.

But why do we care so much about such change? What is lost? It looks like we are upset when the version we grew up with changes, ignoring the fact that the prototypes of the past are often alien to the one we love.
The original mould is the vision of the character's creator. Why should characters evolve aside from in a manner inherent in the original concept? It makes a mockery of the artist to presume to redefine their creative vision, especially for non-creative reasons such as political correctness.

If you want another character create one. But there's the crux of the matter, right? These PC characters don't succeed without an established name behind them. Very much like franchises and sequels, they are rarely good enough to prevail on their own merits without the strength of an original name behind them. That's why we don't get just get a movie about four women who go out catching ghosts, they have to be Ghostbusters because the very name lends them a credibility they would otherwise not come close to attaining.

Santa is a fat, bearded white man. The PC crowd know damn well that they cannot invent a similarly successful character, still less one that's a black trans dyslexic or whatever, so they try to usurp the established success of Santa and if anybody doesn't like it then they're a bigot and against change. Outside of the ISF people really don't like this kind of thing.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 04:25 AM   #91
Sideroxylon
Featherless biped
 
Sideroxylon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 19,841
You have no idea of what the orignal creator vision is and it’s not the version you are going in to bat for here.

Santa is just an evolving and branching meme in the Ricard Dawkins sense pf the word. It fulfils the entertainment and indoctrination needs of generations and diverse cultures. As the needs are diverse and changing so are the representations.
__________________
'The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool.' - Richard Feynman

Last edited by Sideroxylon; 25th November 2018 at 04:28 AM.
Sideroxylon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 04:38 AM   #92
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,264
Originally Posted by baron View Post
Santa likes fezes too, just not when on duty. I was thinking more of the Dr regularly changing physical identity, meaning that his sudden appearance as a woman, or a black man, or a dwarf, could be considered part of the existing fictional narrative.
But there was real upset when the Dr was cast as female. I have to admit that a year or so ago I was in the camp that said the Dr couldn't be female because... It was a discussion here that made me reexamine my "because" and realise I was simply saying "because he hasn't been a woman".

The iconic parts of modern Santa are the red suit, often padding and a white beard. There really isn't any reason why a woman can't don that costume and be just as much a "Santa" as a man.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 04:42 AM   #93
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,264
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Being a fictional character there is no original mould upon which we cast with defined and specific attributes. Characters and myths begin with artistic licence and evolve with same in ways that serve the societies that consume them.

But why do we care so much about such change? What is lost? It looks like we are upset when the version we grew up with changes, ignoring the fact that the prototypes of the past are often alien to the one we love.
I think you hit on it, often what we are brought up on is what we *feel* is proper/correct/right. Sometimes different is just different not wrong.

I mean there are probably people who don't know that the real Blue Peter presenters are Valarie, Peter and John and not one of those modern upstarts like Tim or the new Peter.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 04:43 AM   #94
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,264
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I'm guessing by your response to that you would just brush away the "confusing kids" argument, if I brought it up.

As presumably it is more important to make a few adults feel good about themselves
What's confusing for the kids? Do they get presents or not? Kids are rather mercenary and transactional and if having to sit on the lap of some weirdo gets them a present I doubt they care whether it is a woman or man playing Santa.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 04:50 AM   #95
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,353
Have the Brits given up, then, on Father Christmas and conceded to the Americans and Santa?

'Cuz Father Christmas was never portly. Nor, to be fair, was Santa Claus until roughly the fin de siecle era. Depictions of St. Nick, Saint Nicholas, Father Christmas and Santa Claus from the 1600s to 1890s generally show a rather lithe individual. He became a fatso in the era of over-indulgence in the late Victorian and Edwardian periods when big fat bellies denoted successful men.

Check out Leech's depiction of the ghost of Christmas present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father...,1843_edit.jpg

Looks like something out of a personal in the Village Voice...."Bear seeks partying pal".
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 04:53 AM   #96
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,203
Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
You have no idea of what the orignal creator vision is
Of course I do, and so do you, because it's inherent in the character itself. That's a big clue. And even if we could con ourselves into believing otherwise it would be lunacy to assume that the inventor didn't give a stuff how his character would later be messed with by unauthorised third parties just because he didn't include some missive along the lines of "Please don't turn my white male character into an anorexic lesbian fifty years after my death just so you can big up your own PC credentials. Thanks so much."

Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
Santa is just an evolving and branching meme in the Ricard Dawkins sense pf the word. It fulfils the entertainment and indoctrination needs of generations and diverse cultures. As the needs are diverse and changing so are the representations.
This is just babble. What "needs"? When's the last time you heard a little girl say, "I have such a burning need for Santa to be female because I just can't relate to such anti-diverse masculinity and I don't feel safe with him in my bedroom!" Santa Claus has remained unchanged for six hundred years but suddenly he's not meeting the 'diverse needs' of the population? He has to become a woman? Or black, or whatever?

I can just imagine the outrage if non-white characters in other cultures' traditions were called out for being stale and not representing the 'diverse needs ' of the modern world. Let's take a few of those traditional Indian, African and Chinese individuals and whiten them up a bit, swap their genders around, change their appearance. Hell, you can't even have your hair in cornrows without being accused of cultural appropriation, the condemnation would be legendary in its scale. We would be disrespecting culture, destroying tradition, and you know what? It would all be justified, it would be a terrible thing to do.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 04:55 AM   #97
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,203
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
'Cuz Father Christmas was never portly. Nor, to be fair, was Santa Claus until roughly the fin de siecle era. Depictions of St. Nick, Saint Nicholas, Father Christmas and Santa Claus from the 1600s to 1890s generally show a rather lithe individual. He became a fatso in the era of over-indulgence in the late Victorian and Edwardian periods when big fat bellies denoted successful men.
I'm sure like most of us you'll put on a few pounds over Christmas. Slightly more surprising is if you changed sex.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 05:04 AM   #98
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 41,505
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I mean there are probably people who don't know that the real Blue Peter presenters are Valarie, Peter and John and not one of those modern upstarts like Tim or the new Peter.
You spelt Valerie and Christopher Trace wrong.
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 05:10 AM   #99
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 41,505
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Have the Brits given up, then, on Father Christmas and conceded to the Americans and Santa?

'Cuz Father Christmas was never portly. Nor, to be fair, was Santa Claus until roughly the fin de siecle era. Depictions of St. Nick, Saint Nicholas, Father Christmas and Santa Claus from the 1600s to 1890s generally show a rather lithe individual. He became a fatso in the era of over-indulgence in the late Victorian and Edwardian periods when big fat bellies denoted successful men.

Check out Leech's depiction of the ghost of Christmas present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father...,1843_edit.jpg

Looks like something out of a personal in the Village Voice...."Bear seeks partying pal".
The merging of Santa Claus and Father Christmas has been going on for well over a century, and I would guess most people are not aware they were distinct at one time, not just two names for the same character. (I know some are; I hang out with a few pagans, who definitely prefer their Father Christmas to wear green, for example.)
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 06:05 AM   #100
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,353
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
The merging of Santa Claus and Father Christmas has been going on for well over a century, and I would guess most people are not aware they were distinct at one time, not just two names for the same character. (I know some are; I hang out with a few pagans, who definitely prefer their Father Christmas to wear green, for example.)
Well, pagans, yeah. I have a feeling that the fat misogynist in Auckland (and the fat misogynist's supporters in this thread) will consider that another reason that Santa's gotta be fat, white and have a dick. "See? Pagans don't like fat Man-Santa, we must be doing something right!"
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 06:13 AM   #101
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,264
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I'm guessing by your response to that you would just brush away the "confusing kids" argument, if I brought it up.

As presumably it is more important to make a few adults feel good about themselves
The most popular theatre in the UK is by far pantomime, if you want to talk about confusing kids than they are the most confusing of any entertainment, princes played by women in tights, heroines who are marrying Prince Charming played by woman, fairy godmothers and ugly sisters played by men....

Kids are far more capable of determining what is fantasy and what is real than most people give them credit for.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 06:17 AM   #102
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 84,264
Of course no one has suggested that Santa should have a radical change in appearance apart from those that think a woman can’t don the costume of a typical Santa “because...”
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 07:46 AM   #103
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,203
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Of course no one has suggested that Santa should have a radical change in appearance apart from those that think a woman can’t don the costume of a typical Santa “because...”
Breasts and beard for a start. And if the woman is going to be so disguised that she's not identifiable as a woman, why bother? Might was well dress up a monkey or a wardrobe. Monkey Christmas.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 08:07 AM   #104
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,754
Originally Posted by baron View Post
Breasts and beard for a start. And if the woman is going to be so disguised that she's not identifiable as a woman, why bother? Might was well dress up a monkey or a wardrobe. Monkey Christmas.
Listen, believe it or not women in general are more capable actors and performers than a monkey or a wardrobe, even if the latter can out reason you.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 08:10 AM   #105
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,203
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Listen, believe it or not women in general are more capable actors and performers than a monkey or a wardrobe
Not in 'Ghostbusters' they weren't.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 08:15 AM   #106
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,754
Originally Posted by baron View Post
Not in 'Ghostbusters' they weren't.
And? Follow that reasoning through.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 08:18 AM   #107
baron
Philosopher
 
baron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,203
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
And? Follow that reasoning through.
I don't need to. You're the one who made the claim it's a good idea for women to dress up to be indistinguishable from men on account of being more capable actors than monkeys. Christ alone what thinking led to that statement but if you ever feel like elucidating I'll maybe pop along and have a titter.
__________________
"I am a liar as well as a dwarf!"
baron is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 08:23 AM   #108
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,754
Originally Posted by baron View Post
I don't need to. You're the one who made the claim it's a good idea for women to dress up to be indistinguishable from men on account of being more capable actors than monkeys. Christ alone what thinking led to that statement but if you ever feel like elucidating I'll maybe pop along and have a titter.
Yup, wardrobes do reason better.

Your claim was that there was no reason to bother compared to monkeys and wardrobes. Support your claim. Er...try to anyway. Because as I already pointed out, women are better actors than monkeys and wardrobes.

Yes, even in Ghostbusters.

No idea why you keep forgetting that women are people, wait, actually I do have ideas on that.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 08:39 AM   #109
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,486
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Yeah but he's probably descended from a Russian royal family and living in an area that used to belong to the Estonians and he's busy fighting for reparations over a border dispute that went badly during the pre-Christian Viking period. Too busy to give away gifts and eat our cookies.

<fx American accent> You lie!
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 08:51 AM   #110
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
 
Vixen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Moomin Valley
Posts: 14,486
Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
The merging of Santa Claus and Father Christmas has been going on for well over a century, and I would guess most people are not aware they were distinct at one time, not just two names for the same character. (I know some are; I hang out with a few pagans, who definitely prefer their Father Christmas to wear green, for example.)
Pagans worship green-clad Father Christmases..? LOL
__________________
If man has no tea in him, he is incapable of understanding truth and beauty. ~ Japanese Proverb
Vixen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 09:47 AM   #111
zooterkin
Nitpicking dilettante
Deputy Admin
 
zooterkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkshire, mostly
Posts: 41,505
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Pagans worship green-clad Father Christmases..? LOL
Where did I say that?
__________________
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell
Zooterkin is correct Darat
Nerd! Hokulele
Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232
Ezekiel 23:20
zooterkin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 12:08 PM   #112
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,091
Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
And why would that be a problem? You're aware of the fact that not all secret agents/intelligence operatives/whatever are men, right?
Obviously, but you do realise James Bond is bloke right?


Feel free to create a female one and make massive movies about her
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 05:44 PM   #113
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,353
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Obviously, but you do realise James Bond is bloke right?


Feel free to create a female one and make massive movies about her
But 007 can be anyone. It's fiction. Like Santa Claus. Fiction. Fantasy. Made-up. Like Jesus. He can be anything to anyone, including a woman, a black, a blind latino lesbian in a wheel chair. Whatever suits your individual needs.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 06:12 PM   #114
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,091
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
But 007 can be anyone. It's fiction. Like Santa Claus. Fiction. Fantasy. Made-up. Like Jesus. He can be anything to anyone, including a woman, a black, a blind latino lesbian in a wheel chair. Whatever suits your individual needs.
Only if you feel the need to pillage and rape Ian Flemings creation, for absolute;y no valid reason.

Couple of things.
  • What is the actual reason for doing it?
  • Why can't you just make it 00 another number who is a female equivalent character. It wouldn't be because you know no one would watch it as a stand alone movie, not riding on the back of an iconic one would it?
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 06:35 PM   #115
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 39,353
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Only if you feel the need to pillage and rape Ian Flemings creation, for absolute;y no valid reason.

Couple of things.
  • What is the actual reason for doing it?
  • Why can't you just make it 00 another number who is a female equivalent character. It wouldn't be because you know no one would watch it as a stand alone movie, not riding on the back of an iconic one would it?
The hedonist's response: Because it's fun. Woody Allen as 007 James Bond. Misguided and silly but so what? Is Ian Fleming's canon any more sacred than Conan Doyle's? The sanctity of cultural icons is long past. We've seen bad attempts at rebooting some of those icons and good ones.

And you may count it a certainty that if they introduced 006, a female agent, your same "Don't like no changes, no sirreee!" buddies will be there because "It's the James Bond franchise, man! Not some chick flick factory!"
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

It's not that liberals have become less tolerant. It's that conservatives have become more intolerable.
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 06:42 PM   #116
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 46,683
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
The hedonist's response: Because it's fun. Woody Allen as 007 James Bond. Misguided and silly but so what? Is Ian Fleming's canon any more sacred than Conan Doyle's? The sanctity of cultural icons is long past. We've seen bad attempts at rebooting some of those icons and good ones.

And you may count it a certainty that if they introduced 006, a female agent, your same "Don't like no changes, no sirreee!" buddies will be there because "It's the James Bond franchise, man! Not some chick flick factory!"
I wonder which would provoke more outrage: a female Bond, or a gay male Bond? Or why not do both at once!

[Opening scene: funeral]

Jamella Bond: Too bad our dad, James Bond, died in such a stupid way.
James Bond Junior: I can't hear you, I'm busy making out with another guy.
Jamella Bond: Also I'm biracial!
Laura Holt: He used to be Remington Steele, you know. A criminally underrated masterpiece of television from the golden age of 80s PI shows!

[casket transforms into a rocket and blasts off into space]

Jamella & James [unison]: Q did it again!
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 06:43 PM   #117
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,727
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Only if you feel the need to pillage and rape Ian Flemings creation, for absolute;y no valid reason.
A great reason to reboot the Bond franchise with a female lead would be to see more hysterical reactions like this one.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 06:44 PM   #118
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,091
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
The hedonist's response: Because it's fun. Woody Allen as 007 James Bond. Misguided and silly but so what? Is Ian Fleming's canon any more sacred than Conan Doyle's? The sanctity of cultural icons is long past. We've seen bad attempts at rebooting some of those icons and good ones.

And you may count it a certainty that if they introduced 006, a female agent, your same "Don't like no changes, no sirreee!" buddies will be there because "It's the James Bond franchise, man! Not some chick flick factory!"
006 is Andy Renton

She could be anything up to 005 or over 0011 though

See. Knock your socks off

005 - Gabby Goodtimes.

Just like James Bond she drinks like a fish, smokes like a train, is arguably addicted to gambling, and will shag any bloke that moves.

I'm sure the feminist empowerment lot will love that
__________________
I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th November 2018, 06:54 PM   #119
Dr.Sid
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Posts: 1,670
You realize 'Claus' is a male name ? Based on greek bishop ? Even if he were 100% made up, 'Father Christmas' can't be 'anyone'. Similar to as why Virgin Marry probably is supposed to be a woman.
Can he be played by a woman ? Sure. Can there be 'alternate reality' piece of art portraying him as a girl ? Sure. Do you expect woman to portray Santa Klaus on a city parade ? I certainly don't. Same way I don't see why Virgin Marry would be portrayed by man.

Last edited by Dr.Sid; 25th November 2018 at 07:01 PM.
Dr.Sid is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2018, 12:54 AM   #120
angrysoba
Philosophile
 
angrysoba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Osaka, Japan
Posts: 24,013
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Just like James Bond she drinks like a fish, smokes like a train, is arguably addicted to gambling,and will shag any bloke that moves.
Just like James Bond?
__________________
"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
angrysoba is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:49 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.