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Tags Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 5th December 2018, 12:34 PM   #361
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Old 5th December 2018, 12:48 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Its hard not to misrepresent your position when you either change it willy-nilly or don't represent it at all. Your continual whataboutism makes it near impossible, but I guess that's the idea.
The reason I stopped arguing with 9/11 CTists is because the positions didn't need refuting. That can happen in other areas as well. There isn't much here that needs refutation.

Flynn committed crimes.
He got caught.
He confessed.
He worked diligently with Mueller to provide information to help his, personal, case.

Those are facts. Completely and entirely indisputable. Any argument claiming any of those facts are wrong is incorrect and would require extraordinary evidence. None of which has been provided here.
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Old 5th December 2018, 12:50 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The reason I stopped arguing with 9/11 CTists is because the positions didn't need refuting. That can happen in other areas as well. There isn't much here that needs refutation.

Flynn committed crimes.
He got caught.
He confessed.
He worked diligently with Mueller to provide information to help his, personal, case.

Those are facts. Completely and entirely indisputable.
"These are the facts, and they are undisputed." - Jack from A Few Good Men
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Old 5th December 2018, 12:54 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
The reason I stopped arguing with 9/11 CTists is because the positions didn't need refuting. That can happen in other areas as well. There isn't much here that needs refutation.

Flynn committed crimes.
He got caught.
He confessed.
He worked diligently with Mueller to provide information to help his, personal, case.

Those are facts. Completely and entirely indisputable. Any argument claiming any of those facts are wrong is incorrect and would require extraordinary evidence. None of which has been provided here.
Curious that you don't address how he got caught.

Even more curious that you don't address why he confessed.

Most curious that he only worked to help himself and not the president of the United States to which he owed a constitutional blood oath.

Don't you think?

No? Well OK, if you want to just look at pertinent facts and not be distracted by shiny balls . . . squirrel!
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Old 5th December 2018, 12:58 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
One thing that is notable about the Mueller document is that it mentions that the FBI began investigating Flynn based on an article in the WaPo which in turn was based on the illegal leak of the Flynn call to the Russian Ambassador.

"Curious" that Mueller has not investigated that felony...

"curious" indeed.

Might explain another reason why Bobby recommended zero jail time.
Those illegal leaks. We might never have to endure Watergate without those dang leaks
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Old 5th December 2018, 01:05 PM   #366
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Say, what's going on International "Skeptics" Forum?

lack of any curiosity about the 302's and "fortuitous" leak to WaPo.... "completely and entirely indisputable"... "constitutional blood oath"...

Hoo boy, has this thread gone off the rails....

It is adorable that simply because has agreed to a plea bargain that they committed a crime. Poor Flynn got swallowed up in a perjury trap. Thanks Obama.
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Old 5th December 2018, 01:09 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Say, what's going on International "Skeptics" Forum?

lack of any curiosity about the 304's and "fortuitous" leak to WaPo.... "completely and entirely indisputable"... "constitutional blood oath"...
No lack of lack of curiosity on my part:

Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
1. Is the evidence sufficient to conclude that they falsified the 302s?

2. What is that evidence?
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Old 5th December 2018, 01:10 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Say, what's going on International "Skeptics" Forum?
I don't know. I've been asking you that for years.
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Old 5th December 2018, 01:21 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Curious that you don't address how he got caught.

Even more curious that you don't address why he confessed.

Most curious that he only worked to help himself and not the president of the United States to which he owed a constitutional blood oath.

Don't you think?

No? Well OK, if you want to just look at pertinent facts and not be distracted by shiny balls . . . squirrel!
Constitutional blood oath...to the President? I missed that one. What is that oath? I don't remember it from my civics class.
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Old 5th December 2018, 01:31 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Constitutional blood oath...to the President? I missed that one. What is that oath? I don't remember it from my civics class.
I believe he was being facetious.

I always love the, "If you don't think like I do, then YOU aren't a skeptic." What's the name for that? Something about the Scottish? Lol

Show your evidence TBD, otherwise you know the way to the CT forum.
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Old 5th December 2018, 01:38 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I believe he was being facetious.
With Cain in the house, it is tough.
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Old 5th December 2018, 01:38 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
We are now in the "Why are you pulling me over for running a red light when there are murderers and rapists roaming the streets?" level of apologetics.
True, except it's more "Why are you charging the mule for running a red light when you found a suitcase full of drugs in their car and they're cooperating with the prosecution? "


Although to be fair to The Big Dog, they might actually be as competent at law as Trump's lawyers.
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Old 5th December 2018, 01:40 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
No lack of lack of curiosity on my part:
So the falsified 304s went 404?
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Old 5th December 2018, 02:07 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
So the falsified 304s went 404?
exactly.

/actually the 302's went 404... not sure why I had 304 on my mind
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Old 5th December 2018, 02:08 PM   #375
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That's not a crime
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Old 5th December 2018, 02:11 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I believe he was being facetious.
I know he was. I just thought I'd jump on the bandwagon.

Originally Posted by plague311 View Post

I always love the, "If you don't think like I do, then YOU aren't a skeptic." What's the name for that? Something about the Scottish? Lol

Show your evidence TBD, otherwise you know the way to the CT forum.
I don't think the Big Dog knows actually what a skeptic is.
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Old 5th December 2018, 02:13 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't think the Big Dog knows actually what a skeptic is.
A skeptic is not someone who jumps to conclusions. Rather, a skeptic withholds judgment, considers all sides of the debate, and then, only when all the evidence has been considered, says, "Look over there!"
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Old 5th December 2018, 02:26 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I know he was. I just thought I'd jump on the bandwagon.
As we say in North Dakota "ope!"

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't think the Big Dog knows actually what a skeptic is.
The word gets thrown around entirely too much. Not everyone here is a skeptic (I certainly don't consider my self one. Maybe an "in-training", but the word means something), and I don't think a lot of people understand what it means anymore.
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Old 5th December 2018, 02:31 PM   #379
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So who leaked the surveillance of the Flynn call to the ambassador to CIA lackey David Ignatius?

Comey (one of the few people he followed on twitter before his handle was exposed)?

Or John Brennan? (spittle soaked anti-Trump fanatic).

Hmmm....

why not both?
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Old 5th December 2018, 02:40 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
So who leaked the surveillance of the Flynn call to the ambassador to CIA lackey David Ignatius?

Comey (one of the few people he followed on twitter before his handle was exposed)?

Or John Brennan? (spittle soaked anti-Trump fanatic).

Hmmm....

why not both?
I can't think of a reason. You should take your sleuthing to the authorities and get #JusticeForFlynn.

I'm positive you have enough to crack this case wide open.
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Old 5th December 2018, 02:41 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
As we say in North Dakota "ope!"



The word gets thrown around entirely too much. Not everyone here is a skeptic (I certainly don't consider my self one. Maybe an "in-training", but the word means something), and I don't think a lot of people understand what it means anymore.
I consider myself a skeptic. But that doesn't mean I don't make up my mind. I am more than willing to reconsider when good evidence is provided on a subject. TBD has a tendency to toss conservative CT theories and then suggest that others are not really skeptics since we don't consider them.

Weird. I'm from Sioux City and I never heard that one.
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Old 5th December 2018, 02:56 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I consider myself a skeptic. But that doesn't mean I don't make up my mind. I am more than willing to reconsider when good evidence is provided on a subject. TBD has a tendency to toss conservative CT theories and then suggest that others are not really skeptics since we don't consider them.
I can certainly agree there are skeptics here. There are people I love reading, and people I just gloss over when I see their names. It isn't politically motivated either. I roam over both sides LoL. As I'm sure many to do me as well.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Weird. I'm from Sioux City and I never heard that one.
I bet I hear it 10-12 times a day.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:15 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
So who leaked the surveillance of the Flynn call to the ambassador to CIA lackey David Ignatius?

Comey (one of the few people he followed on twitter before his handle was exposed)?

Or John Brennan? (spittle soaked anti-Trump fanatic).

Hmmm....

why not both?
It's like asking who Deep Throat was and why hasn't he been jailed yet.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:25 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
It's like asking who Deep Throat was and why hasn't he been jailed yet.
But... people did ask who Deep Throat was... for years, it was a big deal.

I think it is more like asking did the CIA deliberately leak surveillance audio of a perfectly legal transaction involving a US Citizen for purely political purposes, and if so, why haven't the people responsible been put in ******* jail?
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:25 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Hmm, the in-curiosity of who in the Obama administration leaked the surveillance tapes to WaPo.
What "surveillance tapes"? The article in question makes no reference to any surveillance tapes. What it says is:

Quote:
Retired Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn, Trump’s choice for national security adviser, cultivates close Russian contacts. He has appeared on Russia Today and received a speaking fee from the cable network, which was described in last week’s unclassified intelligence briefing on Russian hacking as “the Kremlin’s principal international propaganda outlet.”

According to a senior U.S. government official, Flynn phoned Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak several times on Dec. 29, the day the Obama administration announced the expulsion of 35 Russian officials as well as other measures in retaliation for the hacking. What did Flynn say, and did it undercut the U.S. sanctions? The Logan Act (though never enforced) bars U.S. citizens from correspondence intending to influence a foreign government about “disputes” with the United States. Was its spirit violated? The Trump campaign didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment.

[...]

UPDATE: The Trump transition team did not respond Thursday night to a request for comment. But two team members called with information Friday morning. A first Trump official confirmed that Flynn had spoken with Kislyak by phone, but said the calls were before sanctions were announced and didn’t cover that topic. This official later added that Flynn’s initial call was to express condolences to Kislyak after the terrorist killing of the Russian ambassador to Ankara Dec. 19, and that Flynn made a second call Dec. 28 to express condolences for the shoot-down of a Russian plane carrying a choir to Syria. In that second call, Flynn also discussed plans for a Trump-Putin conversation sometime after the inauguration. In addition, a second Trump official said the Dec. 28 call included an invitation from Kislyak for a Trump administration official to visit Kazakhstan for a conference in late January.
Flynn has since confessed that he did indeed discuss sanctions with Kislyak, asking the Russian government to hold off on retaliation for Obama's sanctions as things would be different once Trump was in office.

There was a later leak which revealed that Flynn had lied and that there were tapes of his conversation, but still no reference to the tapes being leaked. So what are you talking about?
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:31 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
What "surveillance tapes"? The article in question makes no reference to any surveillance tapes. What it says is:



Flynn has since confessed that he did indeed discuss sanctions with Kislyak, asking the Russian government to hold off on retaliation for Obama's sanctions as things would be different once Trump was in office.
no way, the CIA errand boy did not admit that he got the info about the call through CIA surveillance of the Russian Ambassador?

He is very clever!

oy vey...
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:32 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
no way, the CIA errand boy did not admit that he got the info about the call through CIA surveillance of the Russian Ambassador?

He is very clever!

oy vey...
Can we get a split over to the CT section?
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:36 PM   #388
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These molehills just keep getting smaller and harder to find.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:42 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
So who leaked the surveillance of the Flynn call to the ambassador to CIA lackey David Ignatius?

Comey (one of the few people he followed on twitter before his handle was exposed)?

Or John Brennan? (spittle soaked anti-Trump fanatic).

Hmmm....

why not both?
The article says there were 9 sources for the information, so it could be both of them who made the leak. But none of them appear to have leaked the tapes, as you allege.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:43 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
These molehills just keep getting smaller and harder to find.
Damn right, another good post by you!

molehill: hey this guy maybe told not fully consistent things about this perfectly legal thing he did. Prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law!

0 to 14 days in jail.

Mountain: Hey what about the CIA leaks? Hello? Anyone home?

Crickets.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:44 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
no way, the CIA errand boy did not admit that he got the info about the call through CIA surveillance of the Russian Ambassador?

He is very clever!

oy vey...
If you want to convince people that the tapes themselves have been leaked, then you'll have to provide a better argument than that there is no evidence that the tapes themselves have been leaked.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:46 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
If you want to convince people that the tapes themselves have been leaked, then you'll have to provide a better argument than that there is no evidence that the tapes themselves have been leaked.
You did see the part where he said there was a phone call, right?

Where do you think he got the info about that?

I wonder if it was from the fact that the CIA was listening in on the calls of the Russian Ambassador?

What do you think?
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:46 PM   #393
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post

I bet I hear it 10-12 times a day.
It's been 20 years since I've been there, so maybe that explains it.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:51 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You did see the part where he said there was a phone call, right?

Where do you think he got the info about that?

I wonder if it was from the fact that the CIA was listening in on the calls of the Russian Ambassador?

What do you think?
Where did you get the information about the contents of the phonecalls from? Have you heard the tapes? Or is it possible to acquire information in a different way?

If you want to convince people that the tapes themselves have been leaked, then you'll have to provide a better argument than that there is no evidence that the tapes themselves have been leaked. Denying that people have the ability to convey information to other people is not a better argument.
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Old 5th December 2018, 03:57 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Where did you get the information about the contents of the phonecalls from? Have you heard the tapes? Or is it possible to acquire information in a different way?

If you want to convince people that the tapes themselves have been leaked, then you'll have to provide a better argument than that there is no evidence that the tapes themselves have been leaked. Denying that people have the ability to convey information to other people is not a better argument.
Wait are you quibbling that the physical tapes were not leaked just the information on them?

oof, if so, that is just some next level quibbling I had not expected...
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Old 5th December 2018, 04:04 PM   #396
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Wait are you quibbling that the physical tapes were not leaked just the information on them?

oof, if so, that is just some next level quibbling I had not expected...
That's a gracious way to admit that you were wrong. I'd call that progress. Well done.
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Old 5th December 2018, 04:07 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
That's a gracious way to admit that you were wrong. I'd call that progress. Well done.
Golly, wait until you hear that:

it
wasn't
even
on
tape!

It was "digital."

Banner day for The Resistance! They caught TBD using easily understood colloquial terms, and declared victory when they found out it wasn't even on "tape."

Banner day, take a bow.
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Old 5th December 2018, 04:15 PM   #398
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Golly, wait until you hear that:

it
wasn't
even
on
tape!

It was "digital."

Banner day for The Resistance! They caught TBD using easily understood colloquial terms, and declared victory when they found out it wasn't even on "tape."

Banner day, take a bow.
Well done. You'll get there. Just keep trying, that's the important thing.
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Old 5th December 2018, 04:20 PM   #399
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Well done. You'll get there. Just keep trying, that's the important thing.
educating folks on what a specious nit picking objection you have raised?

Yeah, pretty much there.

TBD is launching dingers, and y'all are bragging that you got a first down.

Touchdown TBD!
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Old 5th December 2018, 04:29 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
"Curious" as to why sensible people don't use the ignore function on trolls.
Because we have a troll president, supported by other trolls, and we have even non-trolls supporting them with the same troll arguments.

Their arguments and views are those we have to deal with. I understand there is the balance of giving them credence by addressing them at all, and not allowing bad/stupid/irrational/hateful/utterly craven ideas to go unchallenged, but the former ship has sailed with them gaining political power.

Do you see any Trump defender making any arguments substantially better? The only ones I can find are those that address only the accusations against Trump that are not supported or have evidence against them, and even then those people tend to then lump all accusations against Trump in with the weak ones.
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