ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

Reply
Old 3rd December 2018, 12:29 PM   #201
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 76,326
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Dear Leftists'
Bad words about Trump hurt you?
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 12:34 PM   #202
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 41,718
Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Who is Scott Free, and why are Cohen's inlaws on him?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Miracle
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 12:39 PM   #203
plague311
Great minds think...
 
plague311's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 4,635
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
My post that folks are lapping up Dear Leftists' proclamations uncritically like a puppy laps up milk and reposting tweets with zero comment is evidence that Trump's fans are doing likewise?

Hilarious!

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
What possible ******* comment do you need for that? It literally speaks for itself. Several people he's had have been prosecuted for less. If someone were to post that, what would you say? If you have an answer for that, then ******* post it just like you normally would. This is basic conversation. You can tell when someone's talking points are weak when they break it down to this. It's just empty whining.
__________________
"All acts performed in the world begin in the imagination."--Barbara Grizzuti Harrison

“There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss
plague311 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 12:43 PM   #204
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,800
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
What possible ******* comment do you need for that? It literally speaks for itself. Several people he's had have been prosecuted for less. If someone were to post that, what would you say? If you have an answer for that, then ******* post it just like you normally would. This is basic conversation. You can tell when someone's talking points are weak when they break it down to this. It's just empty whining.
any other skeptic want to take a stab at answering this? Anyone at all?

hint: Magic Bus.
__________________
Clinton Email Scandal: “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”

Judge Royce Lambert
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 12:48 PM   #205
Paul2
Illuminator
 
Paul2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,700
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I enjoy how this thread has degenerated into basically trolling twitter for tweets that people like and reposting them without.
"Basically?" There's plenty of substance in this thread, if you care to engage with it.
__________________
It's nice to be nice to the nice.

Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell
Paul2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 12:50 PM   #206
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 76,326
Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
"Basically?" There's plenty of substance in this thread, if you care to engage with it.
He has substance on ignore.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 12:52 PM   #207
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 9,659
Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
"Basically?" There's plenty of substance in this thread, if you care to engage with it.
He doesn't care to... that his problem

In the meantime, from Steve Benen (MSNBC)

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...egal-questions

"Putting aside the president’s odd grammatical errors – maybe someday, he’ll learn how quotation marks work – there are some substantive issues to consider in the wake of his little rant.

First, it’s worth appreciating the degree to which Trump sounds less like a president and more like Tony Soprano. Last week, Trump argued that those who cooperate with federal investigators (Michael Cohen) are “weak,” while those who don’t (Paul Manafort) may be deserving of a pardon. Today’s tantrum dovetails nicely with this same mob-boss posture.

Second, though Trump often forgets, he is the nation’s chief law-enforcement official – a president is responsible under the Constitution for executing the nation’s laws – and inserting himself in Cohen’s legal proceedings, while they’re ongoing, is a very bad idea.

Third, the idea that Cohen’s misdeeds were “unrelated to Trump” is hilariously wrong. Indeed, when Cohen acknowledged making illegal payoffs to Stormy Daniels, Donald Trump was an unindicted co-conspirator in Cohen’s guilty plea. Unless the president is unclear on the meaning of “unrelated,” he must realize how brazenly he’s lying.

But even if we put all of that aside, there’s the larger question of whether Trump’s Twitter tantrum is itself legally dubious – because it fits into a larger pattern in which the president sends not-so-subtle signals to possible witnesses that those who stand by him are worthy of praise, while those who betray him should “serve a full and complete sentence.”

This is of particular interest this morning with relation to Roger Stone, who appears to be an important figure in the special counsel’s investigation, and whom Trump appears to be encouraging to show “guts” in the face of Mueller’s questions.

George Conway implied this morning that the president’s tweets constitute witness tampering. Neal Katyal, a former acting solicitor general, agreed."
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 12:53 PM   #208
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,800
Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
"Basically?" There's plenty of substance in this thread, if you care to engage with it.
And there is plenty of fluff and garbage. What would you like me to engage with in particular?
__________________
Clinton Email Scandal: “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”

Judge Royce Lambert
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:05 PM   #209
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 19,361
Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
"Basically?" There's plenty of substance in this thread, if you care to engage with it.
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
He has substance on ignore.
This is so true. The truth that Trump is both a criminal and a traitor is piling up and he never addresses any of it. It's all ad hominems (leftists) and little else. Comey isn't a leftists and neither is Mueller and neither is Rosenstein and most real conservatives left the GOP when Trump won the nomination or before then. The idea that only leftists are disturbed by the President of the United States selling US foreign policy to dictatorships is laughable.
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:19 PM   #210
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,800
Say, how about time for some substance? Some of the never Trump brigade has claimed that one of trump's tweets is witness tampering? How, they don't bother to say.

Buy is it? Lets take a gander at the statute:

Quote:
(e) In a prosecution for an offense under this section, it is an affirmative defense, as to which the defendant has the burden of proof by a preponderance of the evidence, that the conduct consisted solely of lawful conduct and that the defendant’s sole intention was to encourage, induce, or cause the other person to testify truthfully
1512(e). Trump says that the subject will not be forced to make up stories and lies about President trump.

Golly, that seems like it falls directly within the scope of the above quoted language now don't it?

Yeah, it does.

This substantive post brought to you by the letters T, B, and D.
__________________
Clinton Email Scandal: “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”

Judge Royce Lambert

Last edited by The Big Dog; 3rd December 2018 at 01:23 PM.
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:23 PM   #211
Paul2
Illuminator
 
Paul2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,700
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
And there is plenty of fluff and garbage. What would you like me to engage with in particular?
Nothing right now, as it's tedious to go back and ID issues but make sure maybe you didn't address them in reply to someone else, etc.

When it happens again, I'll be sure to catch it.
__________________
It's nice to be nice to the nice.

Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell
Paul2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:29 PM   #212
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,800
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
any other skeptic want to take a stab at answering this? Anyone at all?

hint: Magic Bus.
The questions are of course, who the heck is the guy who was quoted, and who gives a ding dong damn about what he says anyhow?
__________________
Clinton Email Scandal: “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”

Judge Royce Lambert
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:32 PM   #213
Paul2
Illuminator
 
Paul2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,700
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Say, how about time for some substance? Some of the never Trump brigade has claimed that one of trump's tweets is witness tampering? How, they don't bother to say.

Buy is it? Lets take a gander at the statute:



1512(e).
Does section (c) apply?
Quote:
(c) Whoever corruptly—
(1) alters, destroys, mutilates, or conceals a record, document, or other object, or attempts to do so, with the intent to impair the object’s integrity or availability for use in an official proceeding; or
(2) otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so
Has Trump "corruptly". . . "attempt[ed] to" . . . "influence or impede" the Mueller investigation (an "official proceeding")? It would seem to me that ANY attempt by Trump to influence or impede the Mueller investigation is corrupt given that Mueller is investigating potential Trump's 2016 campaign's ties to Russia.
__________________
It's nice to be nice to the nice.

Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell
Paul2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:42 PM   #214
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,800
Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Does section (c) apply?

Has Trump "corruptly". . . "attempt[ed] to" . . . "influence or impede" the Mueller investigation (an "official proceeding")? It would seem to me that ANY attempt by Trump to influence or impede the Mueller investigation is corrupt given that Mueller is investigating potential Trump's 2016 campaign's ties to Russia.
lauding someone for telling the truth is plainly not a corrupt attempt to impede the investigation, as shown by the language I quoted above.
__________________
Clinton Email Scandal: “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”

Judge Royce Lambert
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:45 PM   #215
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 39,201
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I enjoy how this thread has degenerated into basically trolling twitter for tweets that people like and reposting them without comment.

www.twitter.com



Solid jackson.
So this is the last molehill you can make your last stand on.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:48 PM   #216
varwoche
Penultimate Amazing
 
varwoche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 11,931
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
...Trump says that the subject will not be forced to make up stories and lies about President trump.
Yeah and when a mafia goon steps into a newly opened store, and says "I'd hate to see anything happen to your shiny new store...", we can bank that too.
__________________
To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot.
varwoche is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:49 PM   #217
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,800
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
So this is the last molehill you can make your last stand on.
Oh dear, encouraging people to make substantive comments is something with which we can all get on board, don't you agree?

Any questions about my analysis of 1512(e)?
__________________
Clinton Email Scandal: “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”

Judge Royce Lambert
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:56 PM   #218
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,800
Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Yeah and when a mafia goon steps into a newly opened store, and says "I'd hate to see anything happen to your shiny new store...", we can bank that too.
Are you asserting that Trump's tweet uses "intimidation or threatens" the witness?

Wow, I don't see that at all, but feel free to make your case!
__________________
Clinton Email Scandal: “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”

Judge Royce Lambert
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:58 PM   #219
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 19,361
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Say, how about time for some substance? Some of the never Trump brigade has claimed that one of trump's tweets is witness tampering? How, they don't bother to say.

Buy is it? Lets take a gander at the statute:



1512(e). Trump says that the subject will not be forced to make up stories and lies about President trump.

Golly, that seems like it falls directly within the scope of the above quoted language now don't it?

Yeah, it does.

This substantive post brought to you by the letters T, B, and D.
LMFAO! Can you say BULL ****** As if Trump doesn't know that Cohen is telling the truth and not him. Clearly Trump is the liar. But I forgot. You seem to think Trump is not trying to influence the investigation. Seems as if someone is gullible. It should be noted that there are emails and other documentation that backs Cohen up. So why is Trump tweeting Cohen is being coerced to lie?
__________________
“ A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence. ”
― David Hume
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:58 PM   #220
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 30,607
Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Who is Scott Free...?

Quote:
'Scot-free': completely free from obligation, harm, or penalty

'Scott Free': some guy, probably
https://twitter.com/MerriamWebster/s...24230701092864
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 01:59 PM   #221
Stacyhs
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 5,829
The one failing of the 'ignore button' is that it doesn't work when people quote someone on 'ignore' in a reply. Rather defeats the purpose. Ah, well. Nothing's perfect. Except Trump. Just ask him.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 02:06 PM   #222
phiwum
Penultimate Amazing
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,892
Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Who is Scott Free, and why are Cohen's inlaws on him?
Wait, is Scot Free a racist term? Does it refer to Scots?

I'm kinda feeling bad about the use of that term now. I have nothing against the Scots, I promise.
phiwum is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 02:13 PM   #223
Paul2
Illuminator
 
Paul2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,700
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
lauding someone for telling the truth is plainly not a corrupt attempt to impede the investigation, as shown by the language I quoted above.
I was intending that more broadly, but I see how one could take it more narrowly, to apply to Trump wanting Stone to testify truthfully, as you did.

However, more broadly, do you see anything that Trump has done that might fall under section (c)?
__________________
It's nice to be nice to the nice.

Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell
Paul2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 02:19 PM   #224
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 39,201
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh dear, encouraging people to make substantive comments is something with which we can all get on board, don't you agree?

Any questions about my analysis of 1512(e)?
Trumps own tweets are what we are currently discussing, not any tweets in general. The man is not behaving rationally.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 02:19 PM   #225
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,800
Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
I was intending that more broadly, but I see how one could take it more narrowly, to apply to Trump wanting Stone to testify truthfully, as you did.

However, more broadly, do you see anything that Trump has done that might fall under section (c)?
Nothing that anyone would be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, or to steal Comey's line, nothing that a reasonable prosecutor would try to seek an indictment on.
__________________
Clinton Email Scandal: “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”

Judge Royce Lambert
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 02:21 PM   #226
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,800
Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Trumps own tweets are what we are currently discussing, not any tweets in general. The man is not behaving rationally.
Ok, assuming that is the case, it still doesn't violate 1512, as I have explained.
__________________
Clinton Email Scandal: “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”

Judge Royce Lambert
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 02:39 PM   #227
The Man
Scourge, of the supernatural
 
The Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Poughkeepsie, NY
Posts: 13,355
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
He doesn't care to... that his problem

In the meantime, from Steve Benen (MSNBC)

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-s...egal-questions

"Putting aside the president’s odd grammatical errors – maybe someday, he’ll learn how quotation marks work – there are some substantive issues to consider in the wake of his little rant.

First, it’s worth appreciating the degree to which Trump sounds less like a president and more like Tony Soprano. Last week, Trump argued that those who cooperate with federal investigators (Michael Cohen) are “weak,” while those who don’t (Paul Manafort) may be deserving of a pardon. Today’s tantrum dovetails nicely with this same mob-boss posture.

Second, though Trump often forgets, he is the nation’s chief law-enforcement official – a president is responsible under the Constitution for executing the nation’s laws – and inserting himself in Cohen’s legal proceedings, while they’re ongoing, is a very bad idea.

Third, the idea that Cohen’s misdeeds were “unrelated to Trump” is hilariously wrong. Indeed, when Cohen acknowledged making illegal payoffs to Stormy Daniels, Donald Trump was an unindicted co-conspirator in Cohen’s guilty plea. Unless the president is unclear on the meaning of “unrelated,” he must realize how brazenly he’s lying.

But even if we put all of that aside, there’s the larger question of whether Trump’s Twitter tantrum is itself legally dubious – because it fits into a larger pattern in which the president sends not-so-subtle signals to possible witnesses that those who stand by him are worthy of praise, while those who betray him should “serve a full and complete sentence.”

This is of particular interest this morning with relation to Roger Stone, who appears to be an important figure in the special counsel’s investigation, and whom Trump appears to be encouraging to show “guts” in the face of Mueller’s questions.

George Conway implied this morning that the president’s tweets constitute witness tampering. Neal Katyal, a former acting solicitor general, agreed."
I'm still waiting for him (Trump) to show up somewhere in a "Snitches Get Stitches" T shirt.
__________________
BRAINZZZZZZZZ
The Man is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 03:00 PM   #228
The Shrike
Illuminator
 
The Shrike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,725
private citizen, legal: "Be sure you tell the truth about me, witness."
private citizen, illegal: "Be sure you tell the truth about me, witness, or your kneecaps might accidentally break."
POTUS, *gray area*: "Be sure you tell the truth about me, witness."

The difficulty with a President communicating to the witness is that there are implications either way as to ramifications of loyalty to the President. The power divide between POTUS and private citizen is so great that a threat of potential negative consequence from unflattering testimony is there already. More confusing is the positive consequence – again does not need to be explicitly stated – in the form of a potential pardon resulting from positive testimony.

This is why a sitting POTUS should keep his yap shut in such matters and let the investigation work itself out. Unless, of course, he knows that an extremely tacky house of cards is about to suffer some major structural damage.
The Shrike is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 03:03 PM   #229
Joe Random
Graduate Poster
 
Joe Random's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,818
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Wait, is Scot Free a racist term? Does it refer to Scots?

I'm kinda feeling bad about the use of that term now. I have nothing against the Scots, I promise.

Archaic word for taxes : https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/scot-free.html

Quote:
'Skat' is a Scandinavian word for tax or payment and the word migrated to Britain and mutated into 'scot' as the name of a redistributive taxation, levied as early the 10th century as a form of municipal poor relief.

'Scot' as a term for tax has been used since then in various forms - Church scot, Rome scot, Soul scot and so on. Whatever the tax, the phrase 'getting off scot free' simply refers to not paying one's taxes.
Joe Random is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 03:10 PM   #230
P.J. Denyer
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,710
Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
Interesting tidbit, thanks for sharing.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 03:34 PM   #231
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,800
ROGER STONE "Those who said the presidents warm and complementary tweet constitutes witness tampering should be reminded that I have never been contacted by any investigative body And therefore by definition this cannot be true"

very legal and very cool
__________________
Clinton Email Scandal: “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”

Judge Royce Lambert
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 03:58 PM   #232
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The point of the tweet is that this isn't actually new, it's what Abramson has been saying for 2 years now, which is only just now starting to be taken seriously by the mainstream media.

Not to take away from Maddow - I've never watched her stuff so don't know a lot about her - but to note that people praising her and other media pundits for connecting the dots are ignoring that the same dots have actually been connected for quite a long while.
Except for the Trumpers and people who are apathetic, I think most people are familiar with all this crap. It's not like no one is covering it. Rather, the two main cable news stations, CNN and MSNBC keep piling on story after story without focus. Except for Maddow's in depth program, the rest of it has been reported but nothing stands out for long.

Even Maddow's stories don't stand out for long.
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 3rd December 2018 at 03:59 PM.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 04:03 PM   #233
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 18,800
Complementary Tweets are sets of 2 tweets that, taken together, add up to 90 characters.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 04:06 PM   #234
Bob001
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,063
A Trump-Russia timeline:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...&noredirect=on
Bob001 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 04:10 PM   #235
Paul2
Illuminator
 
Paul2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,700
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Nothing that anyone would be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, or to steal Comey's line, nothing that a reasonable prosecutor would try to seek an indictment on.
How about Trump firing Comey because of the Russia investigation, as Trump noted in the Lester Holt interview? There is supplementary evidence which, while maybe not examples of attempts to impede on their own, are in support of a corrupt intent toward the investigation (calling it a witch hunt, expressing a desire to stop it, complaining about Sessions having recused himself, and numerous press reports about other activities and conversations about the Mueller investigation).
__________________
It's nice to be nice to the nice.

Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell
Paul2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 04:11 PM   #236
Paul2
Illuminator
 
Paul2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,700
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
ROGER STONE "Those who said the presidents warm and complementary tweet constitutes witness tampering should be reminded that I have never been contacted by any investigative body And therefore by definition this cannot be true"

very legal and very cool
Do we have confirmation of Stone's claim that he has not been contacted by any investigative body? I don't mean to imply that we don't have confirmation, I'm just looking for more information.
__________________
It's nice to be nice to the nice.

Aristotle, so far as I know, was the first man to proclaim explicitly that man is a rational animal. His reason for this view was one which does not now seem very impressive: it was, that some people can do sums. - Bertrand Russell
Paul2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 04:19 PM   #237
The Big Dog
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Big Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,800
Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
How about Trump firing Comey because of the Russia investigation, as Trump noted in the Lester Holt interview? There is supplementary evidence which, while maybe not examples of attempts to impede on their own, are in support of a corrupt intent toward the investigation (calling it a witch hunt, expressing a desire to stop it, complaining about Sessions having recused himself, and numerous press reports about other activities and conversations about the Mueller investigation).
At this point, I don't remember the details of the Comey firing, and not really interested in going back on that detour in this thread.

The other things are not only not overt acts, I would think one would have a real first amendment problem trying to criminalize bitching about the fuzz.
__________________
Clinton Email Scandal: “one of the gravest modern offenses to government transparency.”

Judge Royce Lambert
The Big Dog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 04:23 PM   #238
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
 
Skeptic Ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 70,378
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
At this point, I don't remember the details of the Comey firing, and not really interested in going back on that detour in this thread.

The other things are not only not overt acts, I would think one would have a real first amendment problem trying to criminalize bitching about the fuzz.
So witness tampering is protected speech?
__________________
Restore checks and balances no matter your party affiliation.
Skeptic Ginger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 04:23 PM   #239
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 9,659
Originally Posted by Paul2 View Post
Do we have confirmation of Stone's claim that he has not been contacted by any investigative body? I don't mean to imply that we don't have confirmation, I'm just looking for more information.
To paraphrase (I can't remember who)...

He will accept, without question, any opinions that he agrees with, or which stands Dear Leader in a good light, but will demand the most rigorous standard of proof for any opinions he disagrees with, or which could be seen as criticism of said Dear Leader.
__________________
As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd December 2018, 04:28 PM   #240
Stacko
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,252
Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't think he's shooting Trump in the back. No, Trump can see the bullets coming as he peers down the barrel.
It's amazing given how poorly Individual One treated him, it took this long for him to turn.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:21 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.