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Tags Illinois incidents , satanism , Satanism incidents

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Old 5th December 2018, 01:48 PM   #1
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Satanic Sculpture at Illinois Statehouse.

I haven't seen a thread about the Satanic Sculpture (sorry if there was).



I think it is beautiful. Who can be against knowledge?

A couple of articles.
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Old 5th December 2018, 01:54 PM   #2
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"Lex Manticore". No way was he christened with that name.
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Old 5th December 2018, 01:58 PM   #3
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Satanists are doing the lord's work.

I think a Festivus pole or some FSM nonsense would show the proper level of contempt for these displays, but Satanists are doing the work, so they get to pick the trophy.
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Old 5th December 2018, 02:58 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Satanists are doing the lord's work.

I think a Festivus pole or some FSM nonsense would show the proper level of contempt for these displays, but Satanists are doing the work, so they get to pick the trophy.
From the first linked article above:

In 2008, a Springfield resident got permission to install an aluminum Festivus pole in the rotunda, referencing the Christmas alternative popularized in a 1997 episode of “Seinfeld.”
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Old 6th December 2018, 05:21 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
From the first linked article above:

In 2008, a Springfield resident got permission to install an aluminum Festivus pole in the rotunda, referencing the Christmas alternative popularized in a 1997 episode of “Seinfeld.”


I didn't read the link before posting. Shame on me. Add that to the list for the "Airing of Grievances". It will be a glorious Festivus.
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:14 AM   #6
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I completely don't get this. Yes, there's some obnoxious Christians out there, and they are highly visible because of their noise. But why deliver a FU to all with a statuary like this? Do the sponsors think they will win converts? And by embracing the imagery of their adversaries' depiction (the apple and snake on Eve's arm) they can only expect a deepening of the divide. Good use of time and money, guys.
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:27 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I completely don't get this. Yes, there's some obnoxious Christians out there, and they are highly visible because of their noise. But why deliver a FU to all with a statuary like this? Do the sponsors think they will win converts? And by embracing the imagery of their adversaries' depiction (the apple and snake on Eve's arm) they can only expect a deepening of the divide. Good use of time and money, guys.
Religious freedom is religious freedom. Allow religious sculpture in a state building where it doesn't belong, then allow religious sculpture in a state building where it doesn't belong.
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:39 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I completely don't get this. Yes, there's some obnoxious Christians out there, and they are highly visible because of their noise. But why deliver a FU to all with a statuary like this? Do the sponsors think they will win converts? And by embracing the imagery of their adversaries' depiction (the apple and snake on Eve's arm) they can only expect a deepening of the divide. Good use of time and money, guys.
I think the term used is "taking the piss."
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:42 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
Religious freedom is religious freedom. Allow religious sculpture in a state building where it doesn't belong, then allow religious sculpture in a state building where it doesn't belong.
Of course I get that, but I see Christmas as so secularized now that even the Nativity is losing it's original meaning, much as Santa Claus has. No one prostrates before a manger; most people look at it and maybe think a little about love and the spirit of giving. I don't think anyone has installed a Nativity, Ten Commandments, Menorah or whatever with ill intentions. The OP sculpture has.

Not sure why it's seen as wrong for a population to display it's iconic imagery in the spirit of festivity on their public grounds. Let them have their fun, and enjoy the season. The state is not trying to brainwash anyone. Keep the fighting in the trenches where it belongs.
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:47 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I completely don't get this. Yes, there's some obnoxious Christians out there, and they are highly visible because of their noise. But why deliver a FU to all with a statuary like this? Do the sponsors think they will win converts? And by embracing the imagery of their adversaries' depiction (the apple and snake on Eve's arm) they can only expect a deepening of the divide. Good use of time and money, guys.
Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
I think the term used is "taking the piss."
To be fair, I don't see any possibility of converting most of the fundamentalist Xians that push for this sort of thing anyway. I live in the South, so I'm familiar with the attitudes, and the idea of giving up religion (or even the lip service to religion that most seem to follow) would be socially unacceptable. Compare it to trying to convince someone to come out as a homosexual by using a bullhorn in the town square; just not really a goal that's worth pursuing. Most of the time, the ones you can convert are already headed in that direction on their own. More often, you simply try to get the next generation exposed to different ideas (in many cases, just to the idea that there are and can be different ideas), and that's where change happens.

I see these type of displays differently. It's not about getting converts, it's about highlighting the consequences of one's actions. If you want to push for your religious displays in unsuitable areas, then all religions can take advantage of that. Most of these attempts for Christian displays miss that point, or take the "can't happen here" or "how would anyone disagree with me" viewpoints. These type of displays seem and attempt to put it in their face; force them to see the consequences they keep thinking won't happen.
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:47 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not sure why it's seen as wrong for a population to display it's iconic imagery in the spirit of festivity on their public grounds.
Quite.

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Old 6th December 2018, 07:47 AM   #12
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Nothing feels better then being part of a minority group and being told that when you don't want to be passively oppressed you're "widening the divide."
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:49 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Of course I get that, but I see Christmas as so secularized now that even the Nativity is losing it's original meaning, much as Santa Claus has. No one prostrates before a manger; most people look at it and maybe think a little about love and the spirit of giving. I don't think anyone has installed a Nativity, Ten Commandments, Menorah or whatever with ill intentions. The OP sculpture has.

Not sure why it's seen as wrong for a population to display it's iconic imagery in the spirit of festivity on their public grounds. Let them have their fun, and enjoy the season. The state is not trying to brainwash anyone. Keep the fighting in the trenches where it belongs.
I could possibly agree with that sentiment in the absence of the context of these fights. Most of these squabbles can be traced back to explicit efforts by governments to endorse a single religion, Christianity. Christmas is only one part of the war on state sponsored religious displays.

This in one front of many in this cultural/legal battle. Satanists are most well known for their similar battle with a state court installing a ten commandments statue. These governments are relying on no one caring enough to challenge these displays.

While the individual battles seem petty, the broader philosophical point is important.
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:51 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Nothing feels better then being part of a minority group and being told that when you don't want to be passively oppressed you're "widening the divide."
"SLM" Satanic Lives Matter?
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Old 6th December 2018, 07:55 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Of course I get that, but I see Christmas as so secularized now that even the Nativity is losing it's original meaning, much as Santa Claus has. No one prostrates before a manger; most people look at it and maybe think a little about love and the spirit of giving. I don't think anyone has installed a Nativity, Ten Commandments, Menorah or whatever with ill intentions. The OP sculpture has.

Not sure why it's seen as wrong for a population to display it's iconic imagery in the spirit of festivity on their public grounds. Let them have their fun, and enjoy the season. The state is not trying to brainwash anyone. Keep the fighting in the trenches where it belongs.
So, (I know) you would allow the Christian based fun, but not the Satanic based fun?

I agree Santa Christmas is more secular, but only because the US is a "Christian Country" so it has been rampant for a 100 years. It has been secularized to an extent but is not secular. I am anti-religion and even I do Santa Christmas some years. I don't see why even Santa Christmas needs state support / displays.

Jesus Christmas, no, not at all secular. You may think so because, again, it's been ubiquitous for a 100 years, but definitely not secular. Nope, no way. Jesus Christmas, being solely Christian, definitely should not get state support / displays.

If you're gonna allow Santa Christmas, Jesus Christmas, then you must allow every other religion / sect equal access. Sorry, fair is fair.

"Happy Holidays" can convey feelings of love and joy without favoring any religion, if the state simply must say something.

And yes, the national tree is wrong (but currently unassailable), as is "in god we trust" and all other superstitious twaddle.
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:25 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
So, (I know) you would allow the Christian based fun, but not the Satanic based fun?
If the Satanic based was in celebration and good will, sure. But it's not. It's a flip-off in spite, down to using the Christian symbolism.

Quote:
I agree Santa Christmas is more secular, but only because the US is a "Christian Country" so it has been rampant for a 100 years. It has been secularized to an extent but is not secular. I am anti-religion and even I do Santa Christmas some years. I don't see why even Santa Christmas needs state support / displays.

Jesus Christmas, no, not at all secular. You may think so because, again, it's been ubiquitous for a 100 years, but definitely not secular. Nope, no way. Jesus Christmas, being solely Christian, definitely should not get state support / displays.

If you're gonna allow Santa Christmas, Jesus Christmas, then you must allow every other religion / sect equal access. Sorry, fair is fair.
Agreed. Every sect can use public grounds to celebrate (plus or minus). I wouldn't be offended in the slightest to see Buddhist hootinannies or Hindu jazz out during their favorite times of celebration. Live it up. My objection is a pretend sect putting up sculpture to mock and insult others. And come on, that's what they are doing. Shouldn't a sect championing reason be above such pettiness? Why get sleazy to make your point?

Quote:
"Happy Holidays" can convey feelings of love and joy without favoring any religion, if the state simply must say something.

And yes, the national tree is wrong (but currently unassailable), as is "in god we trust" and all other superstitious twaddle.
Yeah, the State needs to stay neutral, agreed. I don't think that the populace using the public grounds is an endorsement so much as a tolerance. As long as everyone gets their shot. Tolerating the FU's seems a tad unnecessary.
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:28 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I could possibly agree with that sentiment in the absence of the context of these fights. Most of these squabbles can be traced back to explicit efforts by governments to endorse a single religion, Christianity. Christmas is only one part of the war on state sponsored religious displays.

This in one front of many in this cultural/legal battle. Satanists are most well known for their similar battle with a state court installing a ten commandments statue. These governments are relying on no one caring enough to challenge these displays.

While the individual battles seem petty, the broader philosophical point is important.
Agreed, the broader point does matter. Actually, it mattered more in the past, but I think as a whole we are moving past the squabbling.

Is it not overcompensation to allow things like the sculpture, though? In the spirit of inclusiveness, we are now allowing insults to celebrants of other faiths? That's a step backwards, not forward.
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:41 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
If the Satanic based was in celebration and good will, sure. But it's not. It's a flip-off in spite, down to using the Christian symbolism.
Agree it may be a flip off. Agree it may be spite. Wouldn't that be their thing, though?

I don't know about you, but I've had Christians tell me I was going to Hell, and they think they are doing me a service. Turn about is fair play.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed. Every sect can use public grounds to celebrate (plus or minus). I wouldn't be offended in the slightest to see Buddhist hootinannies or Hindu jazz out during their favorite times of celebration. Live it up. My objection is a pretend sect putting up sculpture to mock and insult others. And come on, that's what they are doing. Shouldn't a sect championing reason be above such pettiness? Why get sleazy to make your point?
Face it, Satanism is a FU to Abrahamic religions, since they take the side of Biblical Satan. This is their fun, heck, their purpose.


Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yeah, the State needs to stay neutral, agreed. I don't think that the populace using the public grounds is an endorsement so much as a tolerance. As long as everyone gets their shot. Tolerating the FU's seems a tad unnecessary.
We seem to be largely in agreement: The State needs to stay neutral.

Where we don't agree is, when the State doesn't stay neutral, you would just accept it, and I like the Satanist FU. If the State wants to play when it shouldn't, it must play fair.
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:51 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed, the broader point does matter. Actually, it mattered more in the past, but I think as a whole we are moving past the squabbling.

Is it not overcompensation to allow things like the sculpture, though? In the spirit of inclusiveness, we are now allowing insults to celebrants of other faiths? That's a step backwards, not forward.
maybe. Anger should be placed on officials that turn neutral ground into a forum for public debate by insisting on their religious shrines. They could easily restore a sense of dignity by removing all religious references, but they don't.

I find the Satanists to be a little less "FU" than the Festivus or FSM ilk. They seem to actually have a core philosophy and code of ethics. Much of it is a repudiation of Christianity, but there is an actual serious philosophical core. At least, more serious than most joke displays. I don't really consider snark to be a bad response here though.

The one from the OP is saying that knowledge is a gift, not a curse. It's a serious repudiation of the morals of Genesis and not solely snark. That's more seriousness than it really deserves, so kudos to the Satanists for going the extra mile.
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Old 6th December 2018, 08:52 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed, the broader point does matter. Actually, it mattered more in the past, but I think as a whole we are moving past the squabbling.

Is it not overcompensation to allow things like the sculpture, though? In the spirit of inclusiveness, we are now allowing insults to celebrants of other faiths? That's a step backwards, not forward.
How is Satanism more insulting to Christianity than Christianity is insulting to Satanism?
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:02 AM   #21
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The brilliance of this statue is it glorifies the pursuit of knowledge while making people think about the anti-science bias of Christianity. Taking a bite out of "The Tree of Knowledge" caused original sin. Now we need the local Christian magician to say the magic mumbo-jumbo words over us to save our souls from eternal damnation.

Screw that. The quest for knowledge is the spiritual ticket -- not the quest for the local magician to clean your stained soul for Eve's transgressions.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:10 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
Agree it may be a flip off. Agree it may be spite. Wouldn't that be their thing, though?

I don't know about you, but I've had Christians tell me I was going to Hell, and they think they are doing me a service. Turn about is fair play.
Yes, but time and place. Christians, and the larger secular celebrants, are not tossing condemnation around at Christmas. Let them live it up in peace, as long as the spirit is positive.

Quote:
Face it, Satanism is a FU to Abrahamic religions, since they take the side of Biblical Satan. This is their fun, heck, their purpose.

We seem to be largely in agreement: The State needs to stay neutral.
Yup. Agreed.

Quote:
Where we don't agree is, when the State doesn't stay neutral, you would just accept it, and I like the Satanist FU. If the State wants to play when it shouldn't, it must play fair.
I like the Satanist FU, and their philosophy is sound. Where I have a problem is spiting others for the hell of it when they are in observation of their...whatever.

If I see a Muslim bowing towards Mecca, I wouldn't interrupt his prayers bellowing 'I like big butts and I cannot lie'. and I'm not inclined to dress down a Sikh as terrorist for sporting a turban. Leave 'em alone if they are peaceful, and hold their feet to the fire if they want to get judgey. Xmas decorations fall into the former for me.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:15 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
maybe. Anger should be placed on officials that turn neutral ground into a forum for public debate by insisting on their religious shrines. They could easily restore a sense of dignity by removing all religious references, but they don't.

I find the Satanists to be a little less "FU" than the Festivus or FSM ilk. They seem to actually have a core philosophy and code of ethics. Much of it is a repudiation of Christianity, but there is an actual serious philosophical core. At least, more serious than most joke displays. I don't really consider snark to be a bad response here though.

The one from the OP is saying that knowledge is a gift, not a curse. It's a serious repudiation of the morals of Genesis and not solely snark. That's more seriousness than it really deserves, so kudos to the Satanists for going the extra mile.
Agreed, the Satanists have a sincere standpoint and should be taken as such. Hell, I agree with them. I just draw the line at using the Christian imagery to backhandedly mock, which is what they are doing. Shouldn't those who champion clear thinking and knowledge be compassionate, too? The sculpture is not reaching out for converts. Nor is FSM. Festivus kind of is. That's meant in fun, so I'd give it a pass.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:18 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
How is Satanism more insulting to Christianity than Christianity is insulting to Satanism?
Satanism was conceived as an insult to Christianity, using its imagery while refuting its validity. It's spitting in the face.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:19 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Senex View Post
The brilliance of this statue is it glorifies the pursuit of knowledge while making people think about the anti-science bias of Christianity. Taking a bite out of "The Tree of Knowledge" caused original sin. Now we need the local Christian magician to say the magic mumbo-jumbo words over us to save our souls from eternal damnation.

Screw that. The quest for knowledge is the spiritual ticket -- not the quest for the local magician to clean your stained soul for Eve's transgressions.
Agreed. Now could they push that agenda without spite? That's the high road of superior thinking, yes?
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:46 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed. Now could they push that agenda without spite? That's the high road of superior thinking, yes?
What spite? The statue sends a positive message concerning the human spirit. It also represents the wonder of democracy where non-believers in the pseudo-state religion can express themselves (albeit they had to jump through many unfortunate legal hurdles that were cleared) in public.

It's also very festive looking! Hail knowledge! Happy Holidays!
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:52 AM   #27
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What seems to be getting missed a bit is that the displays in question (Christian/Satanist/etc.) are in the state capitol rotunda. So this isn't a case of people setting up an FU statue in a public park or outside a church. In addition to any other message it intends to send it also makes it clear that if the government wants to allow religious displays on government property it must allow equal access with no show of favoritism.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:53 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
What seems to be getting missed a bit is that the displays in question (Christian/Satanist/etc.) are in the state capitol rotunda. So this isn't a case of people setting up an FU statue in a public park or outside a church. In addition to any other message it intends to send it also makes it clear that if the government wants to allow religious displays on government property it must allow equal access with no show of favoritism.
Amen to that.
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Old 6th December 2018, 09:59 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
What seems to be getting missed a bit is that the displays in question (Christian/Satanist/etc.) are in the state capitol rotunda. So this isn't a case of people setting up an FU statue in a public park or outside a church. In addition to any other message it intends to send it also makes it clear that if the government wants to allow religious displays on government property it must allow equal access with no show of favoritism.
Agreed. I would venture that The Church of Satan is a real religion as much as yours truly is a real priest and Doctorate holder. In an irreverent, irrelevant, and screwball way, I am, but of course not really.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:08 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Yes, but time and place. Christians, and the larger secular celebrants, are not tossing condemnation around at Christmas. Let them live it up in peace, as long as the spirit is positive.
Except that State sponsored Christmas celebrations, positive as they may seem, are for and by Christians who are actually using it to force their beliefs on everyone else, however timidly they seem to do it. And, yes, they still condemn non-believers to Hell, those are their beliefs.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I like the Satanist FU, and their philosophy is sound. Where I have a problem is spiting others for the hell of it when they are in observation of their...whatever.
As others have said, their FU was an affirmative message. They are not forcing anyone to pay attention nor spitting on anyone anymore or less than the Christian presentation.

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
If I see a Muslim bowing towards Mecca, I wouldn't interrupt his prayers bellowing 'I like big butts and I cannot lie'. and I'm not inclined to dress down a Sikh as terrorist for sporting a turban. Leave 'em alone if they are peaceful, and hold their feet to the fire if they want to get judgey. Xmas decorations fall into the former for me.
Wait. This sculpture does nothing to anyone. It's not stopping anyone from praying to mecca, not messing with anyone's turban, nor is it stopping anyone from celebrating Christs (not) birth, or Santa. No one is even forced to look at it, and definitely not look forced to look at it twice, or even consider it's message.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:20 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
Except that State sponsored Christmas celebrations, positive as they may seem, are for and by Christians who are actually using it to force their beliefs on everyone else, however timidly they seem to do it. And, yes, they still condemn non-believers to Hell, those are their beliefs.
Not for the 'silent majority', I think. Most Christians are pretty indifferent to actual teachings, IME. I could count on one hand the number I see walking the walk. For many, including myself, a nativity an image of peace, love, and giving. Many progressives also don't condemn anyone to hell. It's the painting-with-too-broad-a-brush thing.

Quote:
As others have said, their FU was an affirmative message. They are not forcing anyone to pay attention nor spitting on anyone anymore or less than the Christian presentation.


Wait. This sculpture does nothing to anyone. It's not stopping anyone from praying to mecca, not messing with anyone's turban, nor is it stopping anyone from celebrating Christs (not) birth, or Santa. No one is even forced to look at it, and definitely not look forced to look at it twice, or even consider it's message.
True enough. But they are jutting out imagery intended to mock. Maybe it's puritanical, but I just want to tell them 'play nice, kids'.

And certainly to take the high road, if their point is to refute those being small-minded.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:21 AM   #32
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So Evangelicals get to just promote religion on government property because the masses just see the pretty colors and blinking lights?
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:23 AM   #33
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You have a Christmas tree, dog?
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:33 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
You have a Christmas tree, dog?
I'm not a government office.

And no dog, because we have cats, and a dog. Dog.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:38 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I'm not a government office.

And no dog, because we have cats, and a dog. Dog.
My point is that people are knee-jerking about separation of church and state for something like this. I doubt that anyone puts nearly the religious overtones on a nativity that those on this board are. Like a Christmas tree at the White House, with whatever is on the top, the line gets a little blurry. Doesn't mean creeping Christianity coming to get you.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:44 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Not for the 'silent majority', I think. Most Christians are pretty indifferent to actual teachings, IME. I could count on one hand the number I see walking the walk. For many, including myself, a nativity an image of peace, love, and giving. Many progressives also don't condemn anyone to hell. It's the painting-with-too-broad-a-brush thing.
I suspect that like you, I have been raised in a nominally Christian culture.

If most aren't 'walking the walk', why allow them to pretend on State grounds. Your claim that most Christians don't walk the walk, which I do not dispute, weakens your stand. Why then must we allow their public display of hypocrisy? Are you accepting of it because of being a cultural Christian, like me?

Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
True enough. But they are jutting out imagery intended to mock. Maybe it's puritanical, but I just want to tell them 'play nice, kids'.

And certainly to take the high road, if their point is to refute those being small-minded.
Allowing Satanists their display of a (perhaps) mocking yet positive message is 'playing nice'. Staying silent is not necessarily taking the high road.
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Old 6th December 2018, 10:46 AM   #37
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The irony is the Satanist display is literally prove their own point.

*Sees a display from their own and/or a majority held belief*
"Oh just don't see what the big deal is. It's not hurting anybody. I mean where do we draw the line?"
*Somebody puts up a display for a different and/or minority held belief*
"I immediately have a problem with this and have no problem knowing where to draw the line."
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Old 6th December 2018, 11:03 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
I suspect that like you, I have been raised in a nominally Christian culture.
More than nominally for me. My late grandfather was a protestant pastor. Never preached at anyone who didn't ask him to. Never told anyone they were going to hell. Spent his free time volunteering at the Atlantic City Rescue Mission for decades. I don't have these negative associations with Christians that so many here seem to have. They run from indifferent to kind, IME. Not many of the nasty ones that folks here seem to run across.

Quote:
If most aren't 'walking the walk', why allow them to pretend on State grounds. Your claim that most Christians don't walk the walk, which I do not dispute, weakens your stand. Why then must we allow their public display of hypocrisy? Are you accepting of it because of being a cultural Christian, like me?
Sooooort of. I am acceptng of Nativities in the same way I am accepting of public Menorahs in a predominately Jewish town near me. I just kind of smile when I see them, and think 'they are celebrating a happy time'. The literal meaning is less consequential in my POV.

Quote:
Allowing Satanists their display of a (perhaps) mocking yet positive message is 'playing nice'. Staying silent is not necessarily taking the high road.
Mocking =/= positive for me. The Satanists don't need to stay silent, of course. Just maybe lighten up on the barbed jabs once or twice a year? Pick Dionysus for a sculpture, maybe. I'd drink to that.
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Old 6th December 2018, 11:12 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The irony is the Satanist display is literally prove their own point.

*Sees a display from their own and/or a majority held belief*
"Oh just don't see what the big deal is. It's not hurting anybody. I mean where do we draw the line?"
*Somebody puts up a display for a different and/or minority held belief*
"I immediately have a problem with this and have no problem knowing where to draw the line."
Yeah, it's a real quandary to differentiate a celebration from a double-bird flip-off.
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Old 6th December 2018, 11:33 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Joe Random View Post
What seems to be getting missed a bit is that the displays in question (Christian/Satanist/etc.) are in the state capitol rotunda. So this isn't a case of people setting up an FU statue in a public park or outside a church. In addition to any other message it intends to send it also makes it clear that if the government wants to allow religious displays on government property it must allow equal access with no show of favoritism.

See also, for example, when the Louisiana state legislature passed a law in 2012 that allowed government-paid vouchers to be used to enroll in religious schools ... and were horrified to realize that Muslim schools were eligible when one applied for vouchers. Some of the lawmakers flat-out said that they didn't intend it to be used for any religion other than their own.
All or none.
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