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Tags donald trump , Michael Flynn , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 1st December 2017, 07:29 AM   #1
zorro99
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Michael Flynn charged

Flynn charged with one count of making false statement
Jeremy Herb
By Jeremy Herb, CNN
Updated 1422 GMT (2222 HKT) December 1, 2017

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/01/po....html?adkey=bn
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:34 AM   #2
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Is this fake news or a nothing burger? I think not. Flynn was a Trump campaign chairman and former National Security Adviser. He is now pleading guilty to federal felony charges.
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:34 AM   #3
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/01/politi...ing/index.html

Doesn't look like much...
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:37 AM   #4
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It's what he was "fired" for, I think.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ion_Letter.pdf
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:40 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It's what he was "fired" for, I think.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ion_Letter.pdf
It is also why Comey was fired By Trump, the Midterms are going to be interesting.
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:41 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It appears to me that he must have made a deal, if he didn't get charged for the unregistered foreign agent stuff.
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:44 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
It appears to me that he must have made a deal, if he didn't get charged for the unregistered foreign agent stuff.
Couldn't that follow later?
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:45 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
It appears to me that he must have made a deal, if he didn't get charged for the unregistered foreign agent stuff.

ETA: Even if it's just for one night... LOCK HIM UP!
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:46 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Martha Stewart went to jail for the same crime.
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:47 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
Flynn charged with one count of making false statement
Jeremy Herb
By Jeremy Herb, CNN
Updated 1422 GMT (2222 HKT) December 1, 2017

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/01/po....html?adkey=bn
Boy, that's a really light charge based on his actual activities. What in the world would compel them to give him such a light charge?

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Old 1st December 2017, 07:47 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
Martha Stewart went to jail for the same crime.
Why did you say that name???
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:48 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Couldn't that follow later?
Yes it could -- Mueller doesn't have to make all the charges at once -- but one reason I say that is because he's pleading guilty. Normally, you would expect a not-guilty plea, hoping the trial might somehow swing his way.

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Old 1st December 2017, 07:51 AM   #13
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The missing piece in understanding this is Flynn's son. Michael Flynn, Jr. was an aide to his father. He was there for every meeting and every phone call. Mueller was putting pressure on him. Since he hasn't been mentioned in the indictment, I think it's likely that Flynn cut a hefty deal to protect his son.

With that kind of leverage over him, I think we'll see Flynn becoming a very talkative witness for the special counsel.
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:51 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
Martha Stewart went to jail for the same crime.
Not quite.

Quote:
Stewart was found guilty in March 2004 of felony charges of conspiracy, obstruction of an agency proceeding, and making false statements to federal investigators
But I really meant that this was not much in the battle to remove Donald Trump from office.
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:53 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
The missing piece in understanding this is Flynn's son. Michael Flynn, Jr. was an aide to his father. He was there for every meeting and every phone call. Mueller was putting pressure on him. Since he hasn't been mentioned in the indictment, I think it's likely that Flynn cut a hefty deal to protect his son.

With that kind of leverage over him, I think we'll see Flynn becoming a very talkative witness for the special counsel.
Seems like you wouldn't have the public plea deal this early if the intent was to have Flynn participate in a larger case.
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:53 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
The missing piece in understanding this is Flynn's son. Michael Flynn, Jr. was an aide to his father. He was there for every meeting and every phone call. Mueller was putting pressure on him. Since he hasn't been mentioned in the indictment, I think it's likely that Flynn cut a hefty deal to protect his son.

With that kind of leverage over him, I think we'll see Flynn becoming a very talkative witness for the special counsel.
Doesn't this strike you as an abuse of process - surely this run contrary to justice?
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:53 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Not quite.



But I really meant that this was not much in the battle to remove Donald Trump from office.
Mueller is not in that battle.
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Old 1st December 2017, 07:57 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Doesn't this strike you as an abuse of process - surely this run contrary to justice?
It's the American Way.
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Old 1st December 2017, 08:03 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Mueller is not in that battle.
I agree, but a lot of people do not.
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Old 1st December 2017, 08:04 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Doesn't this strike you as an abuse of process - surely this run contrary to justice?
This is often referred to as a "process crime".

The idea being that there was no crime until the authorities came in and asked questions, and the person is then charged with lying to the authorities about some aspect of the questioning.
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Old 1st December 2017, 08:21 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Seems like you wouldn't have the public plea deal this early if the intent was to have Flynn participate in a larger case.
Depends on what they needed from him. They raided his house and took troves of documents. If all they needed was for him to confirm the **** they were reading, then it wouldn't take much. Why bother with a witness if you have it on paper?

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Old 1st December 2017, 08:30 AM   #22
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The Flynn Effect

Sounds like an 'obstruction of justice charge' (or does there really exist in US law a charge called 'lying to the FBI'?).

I think maximum sentence is circa five years in most US state.

Perhaps Flynn is the sacrificial goat for others.
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Old 1st December 2017, 08:35 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
The idea being that there was no crime until the authorities came in and asked questions, and the person is then charged with lying to the authorities about some aspect of the questioning.
Doing a deal with the Russian ambassador over their response to sanctions on the day they were announced, when you're a private citizen, is problematic.

Telling the FBI that it didn't happen when they have you on tape is just plain stupid.
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Old 1st December 2017, 08:43 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Seems like you wouldn't have the public plea deal this early if the intent was to have Flynn participate in a larger case.
Hard to say how early or late it is, since Mueller has run a pretty tight ship; he may already be close to a slew of new indictments. But I think the purpose of doing this now is to put pressure on others to flip. There are probably a lot of people worried about what Flynn is saying to Mueller.
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Old 1st December 2017, 08:47 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Doesn't this strike you as an abuse of process - surely this run contrary to justice?
A good way to avoid this from happening is to not commit crimes.
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Old 1st December 2017, 08:50 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
A good way to avoid this from happening is to not commit crimes.
Or given "innocent until proven guilty", do not get accused of committing crimes
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Old 1st December 2017, 08:54 AM   #27
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And of course in keeping with the most insane, stupid and hypocritical administration in US History... there's a Trump tweet for EVERY occasion:

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Old 1st December 2017, 08:55 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Boy, that's a really light charge based on his actual activities. What in the world would compel them to give him such a light charge?
I think part of it is that his actual activities have been overblown and overhyped in the minds of progressives. They probably include a lot of speculation, a lot of supposition, and a lot of wishful thinking.

And I think part of it is that it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. As a great man might have said, you go to trial with the charges you have, not the charges you wish to have or plan to have at a later date.

But hey, look on the bright side: They got Martha Stewart for the same thing. They got Al Capone for tax evasion. They almost got Bill Clinton for perjury.

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Old 1st December 2017, 08:55 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Or given "innocent until proven guilty", do not get accused of committing crimes
I think we’re past that point in this particular case.
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Old 1st December 2017, 08:58 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think part of it is that his actual activities have been overblown and overhyped in the minds of progressives. They probably include a lot of speculation, a lot of supposition, and a lot of wishful thinking.

And I think part of it is that it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. As a great man might have said, you go to trial with the charges you have, not the charges you wish to have or plan to have at a later date.
Or he cut a deal. Is that not also a possibility?
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Old 1st December 2017, 08:58 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
This is often referred to as a "process crime".

The idea being that there was no crime until the authorities came in and asked questions, and the person is then charged with lying to the authorities about some aspect of the questioning.
Are you saying it is no crime for Flynn to talk sanctions with Russia and THEN lie to the FBI?

Do you really think Flynn pleads guilty to a "process crime" without getting
some kind of deal?
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Old 1st December 2017, 09:01 AM   #32
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You know it's really BREAKING NEWS! when the CNN actually cuts into a commercial do to the report. Can be scary sometimes.

Fortunately today's BREAKING NEWS! was not tragic but certainly politically significant.

Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
Is this fake news or a nothing burger? I think not. Flynn was a Trump campaign chairman and former National Security Adviser. He is now pleading guilty to federal felony charges.
Of course, FOXNews is leading on their web page with a nasty story about Clinton instead.
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Old 1st December 2017, 09:03 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
This is how plea deals work- a person is presented with a list of serious charges to convince them to cooperate with the prosecutor and reveal information about the involvement of others. In exchange the serious charges are not brought against them and they are charged with a more minor offense instead.

Of course I cannot say this this is a plea deal, but it it has the external hallmarks of one. It will be interesting to see what comes out of it and if Flynn is now testifying about others in the Trump administration.
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Old 1st December 2017, 09:05 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
Not quite.

But I really meant that this was not much in the battle to remove Donald Trump from office.
Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Mueller is not in that battle.
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
I agree, but a lot of people do not.
I think it's very much a part of the battle to remove Trump from office with an obstruction of justice impeachment. There is a reason that Trump tried so hard to protect Flynn, and why so many Trump people lied about so many Russian contacts, and if it turns out to be because Trump was aware of illegal activities, I do believe he will be impeached.
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Old 1st December 2017, 09:07 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
This is how plea deals work- a person is presented with a list of serious charges to convince them to cooperate with the prosecutor and reveal information about the involvement of others. In exchange the serious charges are not brought against them and they are charged with a more minor offense instead.

Of course I cannot say this this is a plea deal, but it it has the external hallmarks of one. It will be interesting to see what comes out of it and if Flynn is now testifying about others in the Trump administration.
If it was the extent of what they were able to charge him with, what would be the different external hallmarks?
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Old 1st December 2017, 09:09 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Or he cut a deal. Is that not also a possibility?
That he's cut a deal is blindingly obvious. Perhaps to save his son. Morning news is saying he feels abandoned by Trump.
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Old 1st December 2017, 09:10 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
And of course in keeping with the most insane, stupid and hypocritical administration in US History... there's a Trump tweet for EVERY occasion:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...ictureid=11613
I'm actually astounded that tweet wasn't from this morning.
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Old 1st December 2017, 09:24 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
Of course, FOXNews is leading on their web page with a nasty story about Clinton instead.
I only get Faux News here, and the talking heads agreed that there was no evidence against Trump. They then had a congresswoman on who started talking about the Clinton Foundation and Uranium One. I **** you not.
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Old 1st December 2017, 09:36 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I think part of it is that his actual activities have been overblown and overhyped in the minds of progressives. They probably include a lot of speculation, a lot of supposition, and a lot of wishful thinking.

And I think part of it is that it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. As a great man might have said, you go to trial with the charges you have, not the charges you wish to have or plan to have at a later date.

But hey, look on the bright side: They got Martha Stewart for the same thing. They got Al Capone for tax evasion. They almost got Bill Clinton for perjury.
okay.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/micha...ry?id=50849354

ABC’s Brian Ross says a source familiar with the matter says Flynn is prepared to testify against Trump, members of his family, Trump staff, & that Trump ordered him to contact the Russians. Ross says Flynn made the decision to cooperate 24 hours ago

Probably just "overblown and overhyped in the minds of progressives." though.
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Old 1st December 2017, 09:45 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
okay.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/micha...ry?id=50849354

ABC’s Brian Ross says a source familiar with the matter says Flynn is prepared to testify against Trump, members of his family, Trump staff, & that Trump ordered him to contact the Russians. Ross says Flynn made the decision to cooperate 24 hours ago

Probably just "overblown and overhyped in the minds of progressives." though.
Maybe I am blind, but I can't find your italicized text in the link.
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