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Tags atheism , atheists , immorality , morality

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Old Yesterday, 02:51 PM   #321
abaddon
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Does the hilite not work on your screen? You know the hilite that hilites the sentence that hilites how wrong your arguments were?

that hilite?
The highlight (note correct spelling) works fine. It is your argument that is dysfunctional. I am with MikeG on this. Religion is simply not a thing IRL. Nobody really gives a ****.
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Old Yesterday, 05:05 PM   #322
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
The highlight (note correct spelling) works fine. It is your argument that is dysfunctional. I am with MikeG on this. Religion is simply not a thing IRL. Nobody really gives a ****.
Yet here you are posting in a Religion thread.

Lots of folks loudly, and dare I say angrily, declaring how little they care about religion around here today.

by the way, it is "hilite" on this website, take a gander at the toolbar sometime.
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Old Yesterday, 05:50 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yet here you are posting in a Religion thread.

Lots of folks loudly, and dare I say angrily, declaring
[...]

See the highlighted above. You're projecting about the loudness and anger.
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Old Today, 02:09 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
Sounds like... Catholics are not defined by pedophilia, but since some catholic priests have committed pedophilia, we can define them that way.

If The Big Dog wants to define all Atheists by what some do, then we can define Catholics by what some do.
Now that's how you do analogy.
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Old Today, 02:13 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yet here you are posting in a Religion thread...
Oh, is this a religion thread?

I saw the title and thought it was a thread about what atheists think about atheists.

On the other hand since we long ago discovered that the title is erroneous, I guess it doesn't matter if it now drifts into being a thread about religion instead. Or indeed philately for that matter.
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Old Today, 04:06 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I, on the other hand, have no idea whether anyone I know is religious,
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
The vicar (a woman) is a neighbour.
Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
TBD head melted.


I'm surprised TBD hasn't jumped on this apparent contradiction in MikeG's posts. I'll ready the popcorn for the hilarious discussion to be had.

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Old Today, 05:14 AM   #327
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She's a C of E vicar? That's a don't ask don't tell religion isn't it?
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Old Today, 05:32 AM   #328
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Being a CofE vicar (or Archbishop, even) is no guide as to whether or not one is religious.
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Old Today, 05:38 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Being a CofE vicar (or Archbishop, even) is no guide as to whether or not one is religious.
Pass the popcorn ddt.
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Old Today, 05:49 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by sphenisc View Post
Pass the popcorn ddt.
I'll do better. I'll pass you the Gradiun instead.

Lowly Bishops who don't believe in god are much more common. Here's one.
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Old Today, 05:52 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
.......I'll ready the popcorn for the hilarious discussion to be had. .........
Discussion? Discussion you say. Now there's an interesting thought.
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Old Today, 06:10 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I'll do better. I'll pass you the Gradiun instead.

Lowly Bishops who don't believe in god are much more common. Here's one.
Thanks, but nibblling popcorn's better than picking cherries.
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Old Today, 06:17 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post


I'm surprised TBD hasn't jumped on this apparent contradiction in MikeG's posts. I'll ready the popcorn for the hilarious discussion to be had.

You saw it too, huh? He claimed "I, on the other hand, have no idea whether anyone I know is religious, and I have never, ever had a conversation with anyone in real life (other than my wife and kids) about religion or atheism," yet seemed to know all the ins and outs of the local religious community.

when I pointed that out he said "the vicar is a neighbor," as if that cleared up his claim that I have never, ever had a conversation with anyone in real life (other than my wife and kids) about religion or atheism.

never ever, ya see.

As if.
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Old Today, 06:27 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Discussion? Discussion you say. Now there's an interesting thought.


Your, and Jack's, responses are exactly what I expected. Now you only have to convince our canine interlocutor of this reality of the British religion landscape. I don't think a link to the Grauniad helps much, that's evil librul propaganda. Better link to Murdoch-owned media, or even better, Breitbart.

ETA: see, TBD is already in denial mode.
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Old Today, 06:35 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
when I pointed that out he said "the vicar is a neighbor," as if that cleared up his claim that I have never, ever had a conversation with anyone in real life (other than my wife and kids) about religion or atheism.
That's a lie. You never pointed that out. Here are all the posts of MikeG and of yours from MikeG's post that started this part of the discussion:

Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
How about a little cultural perspective. You see, you (claim to) KNOW that you know atheists and Jews. I, on the other hand, have no idea whether anyone I know is religious, and I have never, ever had a conversation with anyone in real life (other than my wife and kids) about religion or atheism. I don't know if my own mother is religious. It's a non-subject here. You might get hot under the collar about it, but European atheists don't give it a seconds thought. You won't find anyone here who equates religion with morals, and indeed, they'd look at you with astonishment if you were to suggest such silliness. You also won't find anyone under 70 in the local churches, where congregations, despite combining many parishes, are never in double figures other than at a funeral (our local vicar officiates at 6 local churches, in turn, which means that each one is used one week in 6).

Like I said, it's a non-subject here. So it is highly amusing to see you and other religious types here tie yourself up in knots trying to define atheism in a way which suits you, because atheism is what it is: the lack of belief in god/s. Add utter apathy for the silly subject and even the most one-eyed might just get to understand why the habit of theists twisting and turning words to serve their own ends on the subject is somewhere between amusing and sad. I don't give a damn what you call yourself, nor do I give a damn how you try to classify me. It wouldn't make the slightest difference to anything even if you got your own way, because no-one around here actually gives a **** about religion or atheism.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
For someone who has "never, ever had a conversation with anyone in real life (other than my wife and kids) about religion or atheism,' you sure have lots of knowledge about the comings and goings of the local vicorage; and although he does not give a "damn' about it, he sure is quick to accuse me of typing myself up in knots...

"The lady protests too much, methinks"

Act III, Scene II of Hamlet
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I guess I find it strange how one would take an interest in it while, ya know, claiming not to, you know, TALK to anyone about it.

Curious and curiouser
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
The vicar (a woman) is a neighbour. As an architect, I also get to inspect the local churches every few years, where the notices about where the next service will be held are always pinned to the door. I've been involved with fundraising and so on for the church buildings, because these beautiful ancient buildings are endangered by their lack of use, investment and support.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Does the hilite not work on your screen? You know the hilite that hilites the sentence that hilites how wrong your arguments were?

that hilite?
Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yet here you are posting in a Religion thread.

Lots of folks loudly, and dare I say angrily, declaring how little they care about religion around here today.

by the way, it is "hilite" on this website, take a gander at the toolbar sometime.
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Old Today, 06:40 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You saw it too, huh? He claimed "I, on the other hand, have no idea whether anyone I know is religious, and I have never, ever had a conversation with anyone in real life (other than my wife and kids) about religion or atheism," yet seemed to know all the ins and outs of the local religious community.

when I pointed that out he said "the vicar is a neighbor," as if that cleared up his claim that I have never, ever had a conversation with anyone in real life (other than my wife and kids) about religion or atheism.

never ever, ya see.

As if.
How do you know what conversations did or did not occur between MikeG and a neighbour?

I lived next door to a vicar for ten years. Never once did religion come up in conversation.
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Old Today, 06:41 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Being a CofE vicar (or Archbishop, even) is no guide as to whether or not one is religious.
It is funny how state sponsored religion was more damaging to religion than the First Amendment.

Most of the atheist I know still put down Catholic or Episcopalian when asked to report a religious affiliation. Except for one who told me that he isn't really a Jew, he was just Jew-ish.
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Old Today, 06:43 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
You saw it too, huh? He claimed "I, on the other hand, have no idea whether anyone I know is religious, and I have never, ever had a conversation with anyone in real life (other than my wife and kids) about religion or atheism," yet seemed to know all the ins and outs of the local religious community.

when I pointed that out he said "the vicar is a neighbor," as if that cleared up his claim that I have never, ever had a conversation with anyone in real life (other than my wife and kids) about religion or atheism.
You're now conflating two different claims:
(1) whether MikeG knows of any of his friends/acquaintances if they're religious
(2) whether MikeG ever had a conversation about religion.

As to (2), MikeG gave a perfectly sensible explanation: for his work on those churches, he only has had to talk architecture with the vicar, his neighbor, not about religion.

As to (1), try wrapping your head around CofE vicars who don't believe God exists. No, let's go one step back. Try wrapping your head around a female vicar. That must be difficult enough in your traditionalist RC worldview.
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Old Today, 07:35 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
It is funny how state sponsored religion was more damaging to religion than the First Amendment.
The First Amendment? The one that says that the Government shall not enact a law prohibiting the free exercise of Religion?

That one?

You say it was "damaging" to Religion then?

Huh....
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Old Today, 07:40 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The First Amendment? The one that says that the Government shall not enact a law prohibiting the free exercise of Religion?

That one?

You say it was "damaging" to Religion then?

Huh....
I suspect he had in mind, as you surely know, the part about "no law respecting an establishment of religion". We have an established church, you don't; yet religion seems more a part of government and daily life in the US than the UK.
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Old Today, 07:51 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
I suspect he had in mind, as you surely know, the part about "no law respecting an establishment of religion". We have an established church, you don't; yet religion seems more a part of government and daily life in the US than the UK.
that is because of the free exercise clause, which is one of those things that led to the severance from His Majesty some time ago.
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Old Today, 08:29 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
that is because of the free exercise clause, which is one of those things that led to the severance from His Majesty some time ago.
The why is it not working?
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Old Today, 08:33 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
The why is it not working?
Because too many people conflate "secular government" with "atheist government".
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Old Today, 08:42 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
.......never ever, ya see......
Yeah, pretty much. I'll amend that to: never since I left school, except when I told the guy that conducted our wedding ceremony that I didn't believe in gods.
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Old Today, 08:42 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
The why is it not working?
no idea what you are trying to say here, please rephase
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Old Today, 10:04 AM   #346
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To expand a bit on my point, as on re-reading it seems unclear.

What most atheists want is a secular government: a government that doesn't involve itself in religious belief at all. Unfortunately, many religious believers equate that with atheists government: government that denies religious belief and tries to enforce atheism (see equating of Marxist governments with atheism in general). It's a "if you aren't with us, you're against us" viewpoint.
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Old Today, 10:17 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
To expand a bit on my point, as on re-reading it seems unclear.

What most atheists want is a secular government: a government that doesn't involve itself in religious belief at all. Unfortunately, many religious believers equate that with atheists government: government that denies religious belief and tries to enforce atheism (see equating of Marxist governments with atheism in general). It's a "if you aren't with us, you're against us" viewpoint.
And they don't see how fundamentalist religion has damaged other governments. Because exceptionalism.
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Old Today, 10:40 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
no idea what you are trying to say here, please rephase
The US assumes religiosity in everyday life up to and including their highest office. Others do not. You seem to have a problem comprehending that.

People may observe their neighbours obvious behaviour without ever engaging them on anything. You seem to have a problem comprehending that.

People of all stripes may take an interest in there community regardless of their political or religious stripe. You seem to have a problem comprehending that.

The US is rapidly descending into being another third world country. With a tin pot dictatorship to boot. You seem to have a problem comprehending that.

Clear enough yet?

Your weird ideas are simply ignored by the other 95% of the world. People like MikeG or myself for that matter simply ignore religion as it simply has no impact on our daily lives as lived. Except when it does. Especially when it kills people.
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Old Today, 10:57 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
The US assumes religiosity in everyday life up to and including their highest office. Others do not. You seem to have a problem comprehending that.

People may observe their neighbours obvious behaviour without ever engaging them on anything. You seem to have a problem comprehending that.

People of all stripes may take an interest in there community regardless of their political or religious stripe. You seem to have a problem comprehending that.

The US is rapidly descending into being another third world country. With a tin pot dictatorship to boot. You seem to have a problem comprehending that.

Clear enough yet?

Your weird ideas are simply ignored by the other 95% of the world. People like MikeG or myself for that matter simply ignore religion as it simply has no impact on our daily lives as lived. Except when it does. Especially when it kills people.
which is your favorite part? The massive strawmanning? the snarky repetition that I have a problem "comprehending" stuff made up out of whole cloth?

Not me, my favorite part was: "Your weird ideas are simply ignored by the other 95% of the world."

It had the pejorative "weird" the utterly fallacious appeal to popularity and the fact that it was totally wrong on every level.

Curious how many vehement anti-religionists who are so active ripping faith, religion, and moral believers on the internet claim that they ignore religion in real life, almost a sort of an appeal to anti-authority, huh?

It is like people arguing on the internet about the value 1867 Abe Lincoln stamp:

Scene (the internet)

VA: I think the 1867 Abe Lincoln is the hottest stamp on the market!
NP: Really, how many stamps do you have?
VA: None, I don't collect stamps, how "weird"!
NP: Then why are you here?
VA: Oh, I just like to complain on the internet about stuff i ignore.

and ...scene.

FIN.

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Old Today, 11:19 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Not me, my favorite part was: "Your weird ideas are simply ignored by the other 95% of the world."

But you know that's true, right? that all of the rest of the world that is not America really does ignore the Majjic thinkinng that pervades US religiosity.

Some other places have equally majjic thinking intertwined with their national identity, but the large, loud and courted majjical thinkers in the USA seem unique in their views and their attempts to influence their government (even though they're not supposed to)

It really is the case that 95% of the world thinks the prevailing US outlook on religion is weird.
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Old Today, 11:38 AM   #351
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
But you know that's true, right? that all of the rest of the world that is not America really does ignore the Majjic thinkinng that pervades US religiosity.

Some other places have equally majjic thinking intertwined with their national identity, but the large, loud and courted majjical thinkers in the USA seem unique in their views and their attempts to influence their government (even though they're not supposed to)

It really is the case that 95% of the world thinks the prevailing US outlook on religion is weird.
My favorite part? When you typed "majjic thinking."

Putting aside your rather bizarre beliefs about "majjical thinkers (OH ohhhh, so shiny and clever) in the USA" (people in the USA who hold religious beliefs aren't supposed to influence the government?? That is some "magical thinking" right there!) I am certain that those living in places as diverse as The vatican, Israel and Muslim Dominated countries would get a chuckle or two!
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Old Today, 11:41 AM   #352
3point14
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
My favorite part? When you typed "majjic thinking."
That's what it is. believing (deep in one's heart, like an X-factor contestant) that something contrary to the physical laws of nature can happen cos god wills it is totally majjical thinking.


Quote:
Putting aside your rather bizarre beliefs about "majjical thinkers (OH ohhhh, so shiny and clever) in the USA" (people in the USA who hold religious beliefs aren't supposed to influence the government?? That is some "magical thinking" right there!) I am certain that those living in places as diverse as The vatican, Israel and Muslim Dominated countries would get a chuckle or two!
Could you write this again? I don't really understand what you're trying to say. It certainly doesn't seem to follow from what I said at all.
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Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
Turns out I don't know a lot about tigers.
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Old Today, 11:45 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
That's what it is. believing (deep in one's heart, like an X-factor contestant) that something contrary to the physical laws of nature can happen cos god wills it is totally majjical thinking.

Could you write this again? I don't really understand what you're trying to say. It certainly doesn't seem to follow from what I said at all.
"majjical thinking"! OH ohhhhhh.... Drink

Maybe if I reword it:

Your post shows profound ignorance of American politics and the 95% figure is laughably ludicrous in light of the numerous nation states that are flat out theocracies or are dominated by religious majorities?

That clear it up?
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Old Today, 11:50 AM   #354
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Faith is believing without evidence.

Why someone would expect faith based claims to get a pass on a forum based on the idea that claims require evidence is beyond me.
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Old Today, 11:53 AM   #355
3point14
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
"majjical thinking"! OH ohhhhhh.... Drink
You're complaining about my spelling? I don't understand what you mean. I also don't have a drink. I just don't know what you mean by the above.


Quote:
Maybe if I reword it:

Your post shows profound ignorance of American politics and the 95% figure is laughably ludicrous in light of the numerous nation states that are flat out theocracies or are dominated by religious majorities?

That clear it up?
Oh, I see. Yes, you misunderstand my point completely. I mean, so completely that one suspects you might not have actually read it.



ETA: I think the problem, when the religious are talking to the secular is that the secular side of the argument has a burning desire to make sense. The religious side, I gather from the above, has no such restrictions. It does make it tricky to have a dialogue. My brief foray into this thread has demonstrated that quite nicely.
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Some seem to think the UK leaving the EU is like Robbie leaving Take That.
In reality it's more like Pete leaving The Beatles.

We are lions, not tigers.
Turns out I don't know a lot about tigers.

Last edited by 3point14; Today at 11:55 AM.
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Old Today, 11:56 AM   #356
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Faith is believing without evidence.

Why someone would expect faith based claims to get a pass on a forum based on the idea that claims require evidence is beyond me.
Like that 95% nonsense, you know?

You and I make a great team!

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Old Today, 12:03 PM   #357
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I also don't have a drink.
Oh no, you misunderstand. You see it is based on an old game called "Hi Bob" and when someone would say "Hi Bob" everyone would yell out "DRINK" and you'd have to take a drink.

Now it is frequently used in a tongue in cheek style for people who keep repeating "nifty" little catch phrases like "majjical thinking."

I said it! DRINK!
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Last edited by The Big Dog; Today at 12:04 PM.
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Old Today, 07:14 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh no, you misunderstand. You see it is based on an old game called "Hi Bob" and when someone would say "Hi Bob" everyone would yell out "DRINK" and you'd have to take a drink.

Now it is frequently used in a tongue in cheek style for people who keep repeating "nifty" little catch phrases like "majjical thinking."

I said it! DRINK!
Embittered much?
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Old Today, 07:51 PM   #359
The Big Dog
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
See his sig.
Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
Embittered much?
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