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Tags artificial intelligence , consciousness , Edward Witten , Max Tegmark

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Old 18th October 2017, 04:21 AM   #721
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post


17 October 2017: An ignorant start with Bessel functions involved with solutions of systems with cylindrical symmetry.

17 October 2017: A lie that I maintain that transverse field ising symmetry groups are "impossible" (My post was about the fundamental physics that the Standard Model has symmetry groups.)

17 October 2017: Ignorantly chucks in an irrelevant "(super-)Hamiltonian" from reference [15] - a paper on classical mechanics.

We have yet another post with the Ising gibberish in an image and a link to:
17 October 2017: A lie that I maintain that transverse field ising symmetry groups are "impossible" (My post was about the fundamental physics that the Standard Model has symmetry groups.)[/quote]

Well noted and reported!!!!!
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Old 18th October 2017, 04:22 AM   #722
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Apart from your grammar notation, of which others alike have just been painstakingly removed by mods, do you have anything to contribute w.r.t. to the OP?
We have. We have noted errors, funny claims and other related pointlessness.

Our job is pretty much covered!!!!
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Old 18th October 2017, 05:07 AM   #723
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Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
What are "bionary" circuits?
Nice dodge.

You're in no position to call others on their mangling of English.
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Old 18th October 2017, 12:48 PM   #724
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Evidently, my "issue" is that I understand the English language better than you do.
Don't we all!!!!!
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Old 18th October 2017, 12:58 PM   #725
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Just in case: http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~bengioy..._en/index.html
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:07 PM   #726
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Thumbs down A fantasy about a Wikipedia article that says nothing about reducibility

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
So, although the Wikipedia snippet does not contain the word "reducible", its content may be used to express Mordred's presentation.
19 October 2017: A fantasy about a Wikipedia article that says nothing about the reducibility of orthogonal groups.

There is no "Mordred's presentation". There is an unsupported assertion in 1 sentence written in a PM from Mordred. That sentence was "Yes it is very viable, any SO(n) group is reducible to SU(n) most commonly SU(2)"'. The unsupported assertion seems unrelated to your "traverse field super Hamiltonian" question.
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Old 18th October 2017, 01:37 PM   #727
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Exclamation Thinks that ArXiv uploads need some kind of permission!

Originally Posted by ProgrammingGodJordan View Post
Irrelevant. ...This is typically the quality of work permitted on ArXiv
Relevant to addressing and recording displays of ignorance.
Endorsement of an author is not peer review of a any papers. You need to acknowledge your mistake.
The arXiv endorsement system does not look at the contents of any papers. It is an endorsement of the authors.

Next: 19 October 2017: Thinks that ArXiv uploads need some kind of permission!

arXiv has a goal of having any uploaded preprint available within a short time (24 hours?) of the upload. Most uploads appear automatically. For the few preprints the system cannot handle a moderation team does look at the content to determine where to put the preprint. The team can also reject an inappropriate submission (e.g. not in a subject covered by arXiv ) subject to appeal.
The arXiv moderation system

The preprint you link to is a workshop presentation, not a published, peer reviewed paper.
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Old 18th October 2017, 07:49 PM   #728
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Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
That sentence was "Yes it is very viable, any SO(n) group is reducible to SU(n) most commonly SU(2)"'.
Let us look at some orthogonal group examples
Quote:
SO(1) = {1}
SO(2) is S1
SO(3) is RP3 [2]
SO(1) = {1}, the trivial group.
SU(1) = {1}, the trivial group.
Thus (trivially ) SO(1) reduces to SU(1).

SO(2) is S1 (a circle). It is the group of 2×2 real orthogonal matrices.
SU(2) is the group of 2×2 complex unitary matrices.
We cannot reduce real numbers to complex numbers.

SO(3) "is the group of all rotations about the origin of three-dimensional Euclidean space R3 under the operation of composition".
SU(3) is the group of 3×3 complex unitary matrices.
We cannot reduce real numbers to complex numbers.

SO(n) have real number elements. SU(n) have complex number elements. For reasonable definitions of reduce, SO(n) cannot be reduced to SU(n). The opposite is viable, e.g. maybe under a projection from the complex numbers to real numbers. We will have to ask a mathematician.

It looks like Mordred swapped the groups. Mordred also needed to be more exact about what they mean by "reducible". N.B. there are orthogonal groups over complex numbers but they are SO(n, C).

Last edited by Reality Check; 18th October 2017 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 18th October 2017, 11:07 PM   #729
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We get three months relief from PGJ's nonsense.
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Old 18th October 2017, 11:12 PM   #730
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Alpha Go gets smashed 100-0 by Alpha Go Zero - with half the compute power.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/1...n_data_to_win/
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Old 19th October 2017, 04:52 AM   #731
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
We get three months relief from PGJ's nonsense.


Gee, what could he have POSSIBLY done?

Back on topic, is there anything in the ideas he’s articulated that seem testable, and if so, is there some fundamental issue to keep them from being tested in a grid computing environment?

That’s the thing that keeps sticking in my craw about his ideas, that he just dismisses grid computing out of hand without any indication he’s seriously researched it as an option. He doesn’t even seem to really understand what grid computing is. That alone is enough to make me think his entire online persona is attention seeking and not science minded.
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Old 19th October 2017, 05:08 AM   #732
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Gee, what could he have POSSIBLY done?.........
Well now he has tried to open a sock account and been banned. However, that shouldn't stop us dissecting his guff for the next few weeks and finding more and more holes in it.
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Old 19th October 2017, 05:36 AM   #733
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Well now he has tried to open a sock account and been banned. However, that shouldn't stop us dissecting his guff for the next few weeks and finding more and more holes in it.


Weird. That’s the second rude claimant I’ve been interacting with who has gotten banned within the last few days.

Probably a coincidence. Two data points do not a trend make. It’s possible however I have a talent for antagonizing others to the point of them doing something stupid.

Nah, I’ve probably just gravitated to some of the higher-drama conversations, which are going to have a higher likelihood of generating banning offenses.
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Old 19th October 2017, 06:20 AM   #734
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So, not a very quick learner then after all.
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Old 19th October 2017, 06:29 AM   #735
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Well now he has tried to open a sock account and been banned. However, that shouldn't stop us dissecting his guff for the next few weeks and finding more and more holes in it.
I want to hear about the calculus he invented.
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Old 19th October 2017, 06:48 AM   #736
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
I want to hear about the calculus he invented.
Well, according to thesaurus.com, 'figures' is a synonym of calculus, and 'toss off' a synonym of invent.
I really don't want to know about the figures he tossed off...
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Old 19th October 2017, 07:28 AM   #737
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
Weird. That’s the second rude claimant I’ve been interacting with who has gotten banned within the last few days.

Probably a coincidence. Two data points do not a trend make. It’s possible however I have a talent for antagonizing others to the point of them doing something stupid.

Nah, I’ve probably just gravitated to some of the higher-drama conversations, which are going to have a higher likelihood of generating banning offenses.
I like doing that myself. 2nd para of course!!
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Old 19th October 2017, 07:31 AM   #738
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
Well, according to thesaurus.com, 'figures' is a synonym of calculus, and 'toss off' a synonym of invent.
I really don't want to know about the figures he tossed off...
I think I found what he claims is his wee bit of invention. Calls it his Trig Rule Collapser Set. My calc is covered in almost thirty years of rust, but as near as I can see he is claiming to have invented...plugging in values from memory instead of formally spelling them out. His links to a paper he claims to have clarified this on goes 404.

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/1...d-compression/

ETA: yeah, I remember doing U-substitutions to find an integral, sometimes a freaking page of them. He seems to be saying that you just slap 'em in from memory. Do I have this right?

ETA part the second: yes, I'm pretty sure he is just recognizing simplification on the fly and plugging in known integrals without formally showing the steps
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Old 19th October 2017, 07:42 AM   #739
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Originally Posted by MostlyDead View Post
I think I found what he claims is his wee bit of invention. Calls it his Trig Rule Collapser Set. My calc is covered in almost thirty years of rust, but as near as I can see he is claiming to have invented...plugging in values from memory instead of formally spelling them out. His links to a paper he claims to have clarified this on goes 404.

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/1...d-compression/
Not even the WayBack machine has it.
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Old 19th October 2017, 01:07 PM   #740
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Seems you might be something of a slow learner, then, as you have continued to do that here.
Well, he seems to exist in a world of his own that is dictated by his own invented notions and definitions, I'd not be surprised if he saw nothing wrong in his actions on the other forums.
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Old 19th October 2017, 02:32 PM   #741
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Originally Posted by Nay_Sayer View Post
Well, he seems to exist in a world of his own that is dictated by his own invented notions and definitions, I'd not be surprised if he saw nothing wrong in his actions on the other forums.

I think his moral awareness is a secondary concern. I’m more concerned with his inability to see patterns or pay heed to people saying they found certain things offensive or incomprehensible.

The tangent over the word “retarded” is an excellent example. I grew up with the word used as a utility insult to describe foolish behavior, people, or ideas. I don’t use it in that manner anymore because I know there are people who find it offensive. Even if I completely lacked any kind of empathy for my fellow human beings, I’d be able to recognize that using the word would be likely to cause offense, so I would at the very least avoid it in situations where I wasn’t trying to piss off the people I was talking or writing to.

His discourse about his mathematics and AI ideas were riddled with the same tone deaf approach to language and arguments. His responses consisted largely of insults directed at people who didn’t understand him and ivory tower dismissal of people who lacked specific credentials or expertise. He did not conduct himself as a man who came here to debate, but as a man who came here to argue. He’s not arguing about his ideas, he’s using his ideas as an excuse to argue.
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Old 20th October 2017, 04:30 AM   #742
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
I think I found what he claims is his wee bit of invention. Calls it his Trig Rule Collapser Set. My calc is covered in almost thirty years of rust, but as near as I can see he is claiming to have invented...plugging in values from memory instead of formally spelling them out. His links to a paper he claims to have clarified this on goes 404.

...

ETA part the second: yes, I'm pretty sure he is just recognizing simplification on the fly and plugging in known integrals without formally showing the steps
It is worse than that. He lists the form of an integral that his "rule" can solve/make easier/whatever. Then proceeds to show it in action on a problem that does not have this form (instead he uses an integral with a simpler form). It will not work for the form he indicated.

On a side note, this form I've mentioned is rather odd:

If it is minus, we don't need the rule because the integrand is 0.

If he is reading this: I suggest trying your "rule" with say n = 10 to see how silly it is.

You can read his "paper" here.

Last edited by LordoftheLeftHand; 20th October 2017 at 04:31 AM. Reason: punctuation
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Old 20th October 2017, 04:38 AM   #743
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Originally Posted by LordoftheLeftHand View Post
It is worse than that. He lists the form of an integral that his "rule" can solve/make easier/whatever. Then proceeds to show it in action on a problem that does not have this form (instead he uses an integral with a simpler form). It will not work for the form he indicated.

On a side note, this form I've mentioned is rather odd:
https://s1.postimg.org/401twtu6fj/latex.png
If it is minus, we don't need the rule because the integrand is 0.

If he is reading this: I suggest trying your "rule" with say n = 10 to see how silly it is.

You can read his "paper" here.


Levenge makes more sense.

https://www.distortedview.com/show/1...nsion-levenge/
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Old 20th October 2017, 06:15 AM   #744
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Well now he has tried to open a sock account ... .
How do you know this? Just curious, since ban and suspension notices don't elaborate on the specific reason(s).
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Old 20th October 2017, 06:17 AM   #745
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
How do you know this? Just curious, since ban and suspension notices don't elaborate on the specific reason(s).
From here:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=324014
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Old 20th October 2017, 06:18 AM   #746
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
How do you know this? Just curious, since ban and suspension notices don't elaborate on the specific reason(s).
This one does:

Quote:
ProgrammingGodJordan has been banned for creating a sock puppet while suspended.
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Old 20th October 2017, 06:53 AM   #747
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post

Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
This one does:

Oh, I hadn't the noticed the part about the banning. The suspension, yes, not the banning. So the poor chap is out of here for good, is he? Too bad! Of course he had it coming, he'd practically been asking for it, but still ...
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Old 20th October 2017, 07:15 AM   #748
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Oh, I hadn't the noticed the part about the banning. The suspension, yes, not the banning. So the poor chap is out of here for good, is he? Too bad! Of course he had it coming, he'd practically been asking for it, but still ...
But still what? The guy had a most impressive internet footprint. Of the twenty or more sites where he spammed his nonsense, all had exactly the same complaints, and roughly half had banned him. I even contacted good old Bengio, his favourite reference in the AI field. Turns out that Bengio actually is a professor and AI researcher. It further turns out the Bengio couldn't figure out what PGJ was on about, and he actually is a leading AI researcher. Kudos to him for responding to my emails in the first place.

And then the "piece-de-resistance". As I followed his trail of collateral spammage, I happened upon a site where he stupidly posted his home address in the web address field which is publically available and there I stopped. I tried to tell him in thread, which "garnered" (haha) the one word response "irrelevant". At halleyscomet's prompting, I PM's him in lavishly conciliatory terms. PM in response? "irrelevant".

I have not identified the site where this error occurred, nor will I (except for the PM to PGJ). In fact, I have signed up to that site for NO reason other than to provoke their mods to do something about it. Why? That would be those troubling things like ethics and altruism that we godless heathens are not supposed to have.
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Old 20th October 2017, 07:26 AM   #749
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
But still what? The guy had a most impressive internet footprint. Of the twenty or more sites where he spammed his nonsense, all had exactly the same complaints, and roughly half had banned him. I even contacted good old Bengio, his favourite reference in the AI field. Turns out that Bengio actually is a professor and AI researcher. It further turns out the Bengio couldn't figure out what PGJ was on about, and he actually is a leading AI researcher. Kudos to him for responding to my emails in the first place.

And then the "piece-de-resistance". As I followed his trail of collateral spammage, I happened upon a site where he stupidly posted his home address in the web address field which is publically available and there I stopped. I tried to tell him in thread, which "garnered" (haha) the one word response "irrelevant". At halleyscomet's prompting, I PM's him in lavishly conciliatory terms. PM in response? "irrelevant".

I have not identified the site where this error occurred, nor will I (except for the PM to PGJ). In fact, I have signed up to that site for NO reason other than to provoke their mods to do something about it. Why? That would be those troubling things like ethics and altruism that we godless heathens are not supposed to have.

No, I agree with all of that. I did see, earlier on, the part where you'd posted your exchange with Bengio Yoshua, as well as PGJ's near-identical threads in other forums (with near-identical responses to his nonsensical posts from the members there). Great work there, by the way.

It's just that, still, the idea of someone being booted out is not exactly pleasant. After all, unlike some others, he wasn't advocating rascism or genocide or real-life harrassment of people (although I suppose Bengio Yoshua migh, just perhaps, disagree with the last part of what I said there!).

But PGJ had been asking for it. Repeatedly and flamboyantly. No doubt about that.
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Old 20th October 2017, 03:38 PM   #750
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
No, I agree with all of that. I did see, earlier on, the part where you'd posted your exchange with Bengio Yoshua, as well as PGJ's near-identical threads in other forums (with near-identical responses to his nonsensical posts from the members there). Great work there, by the way.



It's just that, still, the idea of someone being booted out is not exactly pleasant. After all, unlike some others, he wasn't advocating rascism or genocide or real-life harrassment of people (although I suppose Bengio Yoshua migh, just perhaps, disagree with the last part of what I said there!).



But PGJ had been asking for it. Repeatedly and flamboyantly. No doubt about that.


I think it’s relevant to note that he was suspended for repeated violations of the membership agreement. His actual ban was because he created sock puppet accounts after he was suspended. His ideology had absolutely nothing to do with being banned. Even his attitude and treatment of others was not responsible for his ban.

He was banned for a flagrant and overt violation of the membership agreement. He was banned for pretending to be someone else. He was banned for an act of deliberate deception explicitly banned in the membership agreement. Creating a sock puppet account is a very explicit admission that someone does not intend to engage in discussion on honest terms.

It’s hard to get banned here compared to a lot of similar forums. The moderators are very patient.
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Old 20th October 2017, 04:29 PM   #751
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
No, I agree with all of that. I did see, earlier on, the part where you'd posted your exchange with Bengio Yoshua, as well as PGJ's near-identical threads in other forums (with near-identical responses to his nonsensical posts from the members there). Great work there, by the way.

It's just that, still, the idea of someone being booted out is not exactly pleasant. After all, unlike some others, he wasn't advocating rascism or genocide or real-life harrassment of people (although I suppose Bengio Yoshua migh, just perhaps, disagree with the last part of what I said there!).

But PGJ had been asking for it. Repeatedly and flamboyantly. No doubt about that.
Well, believe it or not, my contact with Bengio continues. As things sit, he has provided me with a literal avalanche of material to read on the topic of AI, because PGJ is no longer the topic. It will likely take me some months to wade through the sheer volume of material he has happily provided to me. I don't mind that in the slightest, happy to do so out of simple subject matter interest. It may be a while. I stand by (and it bears reiteration) the fact that Bengio is a really nice guy.

Am I super for tracking this down? No. It simply happens that sometimes, somebody will post something so egregiously stupid and easily checked and verified that I cannot help myself but to go and check and verify the dumb claims. This has occurred twice recently, PGJ and Johan., both now banned. Did my activity get them banned? No, I don't have any such influence and it was their own activity that got them banned from here and, as I discovered, from a multitude of other places.

In short, I am no saint of anything, I just get a little stroppy when people post blatant lies that can be easily checked. Likely, I burned way too much time on them.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 08:09 AM   #752
Chanakya

 
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Originally Posted by halleyscomet View Post
I think it’s relevant to note that he was suspended for repeated violations of the membership agreement. His actual ban was because he created sock puppet accounts after he was suspended. His ideology had absolutely nothing to do with being banned. Even his attitude and treatment of others was not responsible for his ban.

He was banned for a flagrant and overt violation of the membership agreement. He was banned for pretending to be someone else. He was banned for an act of deliberate deception explicitly banned in the membership agreement. Creating a sock puppet account is a very explicit admission that someone does not intend to engage in discussion on honest terms.

It’s hard to get banned here compared to a lot of similar forums. The moderators are very patient.

You’re right, the banning itself had nothing to do with his general idiocy and everything to do with that last ill-advised attempt of his to sneak back in here.

Wonder why he did it? The sock puppet, I mean? Surely even he couldn’t have been so obtuse as to imagine that he’d be able to get away with it? He would only need to comment here just once for his identity to be obvious to everyone who’s ever read his posts.

I think this is exactly what they refer to by the term “suicide by mod”. Funny concept, that, when you think about it. I mean if for whatever reason you decide you want to stop living, well then obviously you need to die, and you choose whatever means to achieve that. But if for whatever reason you decide that you don’t want to be around here on this forum, then surely simplest easiest way would be to just stop coming here. So what’s the point? (Another poster, in a discussion about this suicide by mod business, had mentioned to me that in the early days you’d get anti-JREF types, cultists presumably or CT nuts or whatever, who’d actively seek out bans as trophies to brandish around in whatever circles they frequented. No possibility of that here.)

On the other hand, who can say why he did any of what he did? Why did he go to such trouble to affect that crazy language? Why did he spend literally hours here (and in god knows how many other forums) spewing copy-pasted nonsense that couldn’t possibly benefit him in any way? Why did he insist on trying to insult everyone he exchanged words with? Why post lies that people could (and did) check out for themselves? I don’t think that “why” has any answer, perhaps not even to PGJ himself! I don’t know about you or the others here but, while his suspensions and ban were no doubt well deserved, I can’t help feeling just a bit sorry for the poor guy! He did try so hard to do whatever he imagined he was doing here at this forum.
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Old 22nd October 2017, 08:30 AM   #753
W.D.Clinger
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Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
Wonder why he did it? The sock puppet, I mean? Surely even he couldn’t have been so obtuse as to imagine that he’d be able to get away with it?
His obtusity is well-attested.

Originally Posted by Chanakya View Post
I don’t know about you or the others here but, while his suspensions and ban were no doubt well deserved, I can’t help feeling just a bit sorry for the poor guy! He did try so hard to do whatever he imagined he was doing here at this forum.
It is hard to understand why so many try so hard to waste others' time as well as their own, but there is no denying the phenomenon.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 05:56 AM   #754
Chanakya

 
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Originally Posted by W.D.Clinger View Post
His obtusity is well-attested.


It is hard to understand why so many try so hard to waste others' time as well as their own, but there is no denying the phenomenon.

To be fair to him, the definition of “waste”, at least in the context of these forum discussions, is wholly subjective. Arguably any posts that are not strictly functional, any comments that don’t directly address some utilitarian ‘issue’ or directly help one add to one’s knowledge base, can be seen as a waste of time and effort. And that would include this brief discussion of ours. So ultimately, perhaps it is not so much a question of waste of time and effort, as of (lack of) concurrence with the others here about how and in what form to go about doing it.

On the other hand, to be fair to us, I don’t suppose this particular poster would be able to find that concurrence with anyone who doesn’t look back at him from inside a mirror. Nor do we pretend, either to ourselves or to others, that we’re doing anything earth-shakingly important when all we’re doing is simply gassing away, as right now.

At least he put up a hilariously entertaining show while he was here. I wish him good luck.
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Old 23rd October 2017, 02:06 PM   #755
RussDill
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Well, believe it or not, my contact with Bengio continues. As things sit, he has provided me with a literal avalanche of material to read on the topic of AI, because PGJ is no longer the topic. It will likely take me some months to wade through the sheer volume of material he has happily provided to me. I don't mind that in the slightest, happy to do so out of simple subject matter interest. It may be a while. I stand by (and it bears reiteration) the fact that Bengio is a really nice guy.
Jealous. I know this stuff is the future of computing, but I just don't have the time or motivation to get into it.
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