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Old Yesterday, 05:16 AM   #641
Sol88
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
No. I'm saying that you are not understanding the paper, nor are you understanding the cometary environment as it is when there is a diamagnetic cavity in place. That is, the solar wind electrons, needed for large voltage gradients in craters, and between the night and day sides, are not reaching the nucleus. Therefore the process as described is irrelevant at a comet when it is highly active.
Not what the latest papers say, jd116!
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Old Yesterday, 05:26 AM   #642
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Quote:
Not what the latest papers say, jd116!
WHERE?
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Old Yesterday, 05:38 AM   #643
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Lest we forget here, we are talking about a sudden, explosive emission of so much dust that it is optically thick, from a very small area. I have seen absolutely nothing presented that would explain this behaviour electrostatically. It is nonsense. And the authors of those papers would tell Sol the very same.
We have seen other sudden dust enhancements, and they are accompanied by gas increases. There is absolutely no reason to suppose that all such sudden enhancements are not due to gas release. It is a pointless discussion.
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Old Yesterday, 05:59 AM   #644
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Charged dust: and so what? Electrical activity and dust lifting on Earth, Mars, and beyond
Nilton O. Renno1,2,* and Jasper F. Kok1,2
yes, so what, because you just gather a lot a terms and then "we" just have to make sense of your ramblings.
It is the trick of just writing incomprehensive post in order to get one of the "experts" to make sense of it for you and work out any possible details or models.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
electric fields (locally very strong): care to elaborate what "very" strong means here, and where this "locally" is? = Same Paper
And exactly what does that quote have to do with comet 67P?
Next to that, looking at the paper by Renno and Kok, this quote of yours does not exist, heck, the paper only has 6 figures.
You found an upload of a preprint of this paper, and not the published one in Space Science Reviews, which does not have the text you quoted anymore.


Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
More later from your paper Tusenfem, Current in Cometary Comae
oh yippie I can't wait
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Old Yesterday, 06:01 AM   #645
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
How are the neutrals being ionised then or more pressing how are they being released via "subsurface energy"?
Since when does ionization have anything to do with an electric field?
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Old Yesterday, 06:03 AM   #646
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Lest we forget here, we are talking about a sudden, explosive emission of so much dust that it is optically thick, from a very small area. I have seen absolutely nothing presented that would explain this behaviour electrostatically. It is nonsense. And the authors of those papers would tell Sol the very same.
We have seen other sudden dust enhancements, and they are accompanied by gas increases. There is absolutely no reason to suppose that all such sudden enhancements are not due to gas release. It is a pointless discussion.
Interestingly, the plasmaphysical processes of the Argawal outburst are being studied as we speak (well okay, type).
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Old Yesterday, 07:42 AM   #647
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Here is an interesting article on 'electric asteroids'! Yikes!!!
https://sservi.nasa.gov/articles/new...ric-asteroids/

However, it isn't quite the sort of thing that Thornhill et al would hope for from the headline alone.

The paper which describes the model is here:

Grid-free 2D plasma simulations of the complex interaction between the solar wind and small, near-Earth asteroids
Zimmerman, N. I. et al.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...0150011018.pdf

To create the necessary electric fields, the model has to incorporate both photoemission and the plasma interaction from the solar wind. Of course, this plasma interaction is not going to happen at a comet with a diamagnetic cavity in place, as the solar wind is getting nowhere near the nucleus.
So, all jolly interesting, and shows that electric effects in space are not ignored by the likes of NASA. It should be noted, however, that we have had a few close up looks at asteroids, and there is no discernible dust coma. Take a look at the Hayabusa images from asteroid Itokawa, for instance. So, if dust levitation is happening, then it is only minor. And this mechanism certainly cannot be responsible for explosive outbursts at comets, even when the solar wind is reaching the surface.
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Old Yesterday, 12:38 PM   #648
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Thumbs down Sol88: Irrelevant delusions on charged dust, etc. to derail from his comet delusions

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Charged dust: ...
23 November 2017 Sol88: Irrelevant delusions on charged dust, etc. to derail from his comet delusions.
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Old Yesterday, 12:42 PM   #649
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Thumbs down Sol88: States ignorance of diamagnetic cavities and an irrelevant paper

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Diamagnetic cavity....
23 November 2017 Sol88: States ignorance of diamagnetic cavities and an irrelevant to his comet delusions paper.

Asteroid–comet continuum objects in the solar system is not his insane comets delusion that include comets are rocks; these rocks were blasted from the Earth including recently; blasting was by electrical discharges between Earth and Venus; an imaginary solar electric field charges up comets; the charge causes never detected electrical discharges; comet jets are electrical discharges; images show that comets are rocks; etc. etc.

Last edited by Reality Check; Yesterday at 12:55 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 12:47 PM   #650
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Thumbs down Sol88: An idiotic electrostatics paper question to derail from his comet delusions

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Are you also saying the processes of electrostatics mentioned in the paper is bunkem?
23 November 2017 Sol88: An idiotic electrostatics paper question to derail from ihs comet delusions.
The electrostatics paper is about comets made of ices and dust .
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Old Yesterday, 01:00 PM   #651
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Thumbs down Sol88: A lie that a (or any!) mainstream paper is relevant to his comet delusions

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
It is relevant, me 'ol mate!
23 November 2017 Sol88: A lie that a (or any!) mainstream paper is relevant to his comet delusions.
23 November 2017 Sol88: A lie that I have confirmed that this review paper is relevant to his comet delusions or "cutting edge".

To show how obvious the lies are
  1. The paper is from 2008.
  2. The paper is a review of existing theoretical and observational evidence.
  3. The word comet appears 1 time in a section title and comets are ignored in the section.
  4. He has cited least 1 also irrelevant but recent paper on electrostatic lifting of dust on comet 67P.
Electrical activity and dust lifting on Earth, Mars, and beyond
Quote:
We review electrical activity in blowing sand and dusty phenomena on Earth, Mars, the Moon, and asteroids. On Earth and Mars, blowing sand and dusty phenomena such as dust devils and dust storms are important geological processes and the primary sources of atmospheric dust. Large electric fields have been measured in terrestrial dusty phenomena and are predicted to occur on Mars. We review the charging mechanisms that produce these electric fields and discuss the implications of electrical activity to dust lifting and atmospheric chemistry. In addition, we review theoretical ideas about electric discharges on Mars. Finally, we discuss the evidence that electrostatics is responsible for dust transport on the Moon and asteroids.

Last edited by Reality Check; Yesterday at 01:15 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 05:51 PM   #652
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Originally Posted by tusenfem View Post
Interestingly, the plasmaphysical processes of the Argawal outburst are being studied as we speak (well okay, type).
Are we able to fly on the wall?
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Old Yesterday, 06:10 PM   #653
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Here is an interesting article on 'electric asteroids'! Yikes!!!
https://sservi.nasa.gov/articles/new...ric-asteroids/

However, it isn't quite the sort of thing that Thornhill et al would hope for from the headline alone.

The paper which describes the model is here:

Grid-free 2D plasma simulations of the complex interaction between the solar wind and small, near-Earth asteroids
Zimmerman, N. I. et al.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/c...0150011018.pdf

To create the necessary electric fields, the model has to incorporate both photoemission and the plasma interaction from the solar wind. Of course, this plasma interaction is not going to happen at a comet with a diamagnetic cavity in place, as the solar wind is getting nowhere near the nucleus.
So, all jolly interesting, and shows that electric effects in space are not ignored by the likes of NASA. It should be noted, however, that we have had a few close up looks at asteroids, and there is no discernible dust coma. Take a look at the Hayabusa images from asteroid Itokawa, for instance. So, if dust levitation is happening, then it is only minor. And this mechanism certainly cannot be responsible for explosive outbursts at comets, even when the solar wind is reaching the surface.
Whoo boy!

Evidence is laid out in front of you and you CHOOSE to ignore it!

ya lesser crested Drongo!

Like you say..."
Quote:
"Goes without saying that nothing electrical happened." [Jonesdavid116] "
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"No, never electric discharges" [Tusenfem]

Give up. Your idiocy knows no bounds. The electric comet woo is dead. R.I.P. [Jonesdave116]
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Old Yesterday, 06:25 PM   #654
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
No. I'm saying that you are not understanding the paper, nor are you understanding the cometary environment as it is when there is a diamagnetic cavity in place. That is, the solar wind electrons, needed for large voltage gradients in craters, and between the night and day sides, are not reaching the nucleus. Therefore the process as described is irrelevant at a comet when it is highly active.

Why hung up on "Just" solar wind electrons? Plenty of electrons with enough energy to start ionizing "stuff".

Quote:
This field-aligned current Birkeland Current can then, again, be used to increase the ionization rate near the nucleus.
Currents in cometary comae

Quote:
9.1 Diamagnetic cavity Only the Giotto spacecraft [Reinhard, 1986], with its closest approach (CA) to the nucleus, observed the diamagnetic cavity around comet 1P/Halley. The observations by the Giotto magnetometer [Neubauer et al., 1986] clearly showed a field-free region around CA. The duration of this signature was . 124:5 s which corresponded to a physical width of . 8513 km. Fig. 5BB shows the transition of Giotto into the diamagnetic cavity, where over a very sharp boundary (C) the magnetic field strength decreases from . 20 nT to almost zero. From the behaviour of the magnetic field components it was deduced that there are not only currents perpendicular to the magnetic field (taking care of the shielding of the cavity) but there are also strong field-aligned currents in alternating directions. The change in magnetic field is carried by currents, which will result into a J.B force onto the plasma. Neubauer [1988] assumed that the magnetic field is draped and the strength
Diamagnetic cavity???

Sounds more like a double layer!
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Old Yesterday, 07:12 PM   #655
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Thumbs down Sol88: Insults jonesdave116 and lies about evidence about his comet delusions

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Whoo boy!...
23 November 2017 Sol88: Insults jonesdave116 and lies about presenting evidence about his comet delusions.

22 November 2017 Sol88: A lie in his signature by quote mining an obviously true statement by jonesdave116
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Old Yesterday, 07:23 PM   #656
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Thumbs down Sol88: An inane question to derail from his comet delusions

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Why ...
23 November 2017 Sol88: An inane question to derail from his comet delusions.

23 November 2017 Sol88: Idiocy of mainstream papers on comets made of ices and dust.

23 November 2017 Sol88: A lie that field aligned currents are Birkeland currents and that altering tusenfem's paper makes it so.
28 January 2017 by tusenfem Birkeland currents are a special kind of field aligned currents which flow in the Earth's magnetosphere.

23 November 2017 Sol88: A lie that Birkeland currents are in his comet delusions.

23 November 2017 Sol88: A lie that a diamagnetic cavity is a double layer (even with as a joke).

Last edited by Reality Check; Yesterday at 07:41 PM.
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Old Today, 12:55 AM   #657
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Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Why hung up on "Just" solar wind electrons? Plenty of electrons with enough energy to start ionizing "stuff".
Most ionization is taken care of by PHOTO ionization, with sometimes a contribution from secondary ionization by photo-electrons.

Originally Posted by Sol88 View Post
Diamagnetic cavity???

Sounds more like a double layer!
If you copy a quote from my paper, then do it correctly, I doubt I wrote "which will result into a J.B force" (which I did not). What did I write and do you understand the difference between what I wrote and you misquoted?

And in what universe is what I describe a double layer?
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