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Tags loose change , final cut

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Old 11th November 2007, 04:08 PM   #1
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[Merged]LCFC Errors / Loose Change Final Cut

Let's start a compilation thread here for all the mistakes and bunk.

I'll start it off with the segment of Sander Hicks discussing Mahmoud Ahmad's supposed $100,000 wire transfer to Mohamed Atta. Hicks states that the Wall Street Journal confirmed the story. In fact, they did nothing of the kind. The Journal's house blog, Best of the Web Today, simply linked the Times of India piece and did no original reporting or confirmation:

Quote:
Yesterday we noted a report from a Pakistani newspaper that Lt. Gen. Mahmud Ahmad had been fired as head of Islamabad's Inter-Services Security agency after U.S. linked him to a militant allied with terrorists who hijacked an Indian Airlines plane in 1999. Now the Times of India says Ahmad is connected to the Sept. 11 attacks:
(Boldface added for emphasis)

Dylan also claims that Satam Al Suqami's passport was in his pocket, but of course he has no way of knowing that.
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Last edited by Brainster; 11th November 2007 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 11th November 2007, 04:25 PM   #2
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This thread isn't supposed to exist. Dylan told me that the Final Cut would be undebunkable.
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Old 11th November 2007, 04:31 PM   #3
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They show Curt Weldon with a chart showing Mohamed Atta, without mentioning that the chart was a recreation, not the supposed original chart produced prior to 9-11.

They also show an Air Force officer saying "We fought many phantoms that day," without mentioning that he's not referring to their supposed "insertions" but to phantom Flight 11, which the military believed was still airborne long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center, and to other flights which were believed to have possibly been hijacked like Delta 1989.
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Old 11th November 2007, 04:35 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by John Blonn View Post
This thread isn't supposed to exist. Dylan told me that the Final Cut would be undebunkable.
But this thread DOES exist. Which can only mean one thing...

We've just torn a hole in the fabric of the space time continuum. By creating this thread, Brainster has just doomed the universe.

Nice going, Brainster.
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Old 11th November 2007, 04:42 PM   #5
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Crap. Now the universe is going to end. Like I need another crisis...
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Old 11th November 2007, 04:44 PM   #6
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Old 11th November 2007, 04:52 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Crap. Now the universe is going to end. Like I need another crisis...
Agree. Now I don't need to worry about getting my mom's furnace repaired tomorrow.

And I can blow off my dentist appointment!!
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Old 11th November 2007, 04:55 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Let's start a compilation thread here for all the mistakes and bunk.

I'll start it off with the segment of Sander Hicks discussing Mahmoud Ahmad's supposed $100,000 wire transfer to Mohamed Atta. Hicks states that the Wall Street Journal confirmed the story. In fact, they did nothing of the kind. The Journal's house blog, Best of the Web Today, simply linked the Times of India piece and did no original reporting or confirmation:
But in trooferworld that is confirmation. Thierry Meyssan said there were automated missile defenses at the Pentagon. David Ray Griffin repeated this assertion. There, so it has been confirmed now. Proven 100%. Case closed.
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Old 11th November 2007, 04:57 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
Crap. Now the universe is going to end. Like I need another crisis...

Crisis? What crisis?

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Old 11th November 2007, 04:59 PM   #10
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What? Errors in Loose Change: Final Cut?

What next are you going to tell me? The Pope's Catholic? Water's wet? Bears defecate in the woods?
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Last edited by DarkMagician; 11th November 2007 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Well, we know there's errors in Loose Change. That why they re-did it three times.
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Old 11th November 2007, 05:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by DarkMagician View Post
What? Errors in Loose Change: Final Cut?

What next are you going to tell me? The Pope's Catholic? Water's wet? Bears defecate in the woods?
Your wife or significant other will sometimes be late.

Newborn babies crap in their diapers.

You don't have to shovel rain off your driveway like you have to do with snow.

Liquid Nitrogen is cold.

Cats breath smells like cat food.
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Old 11th November 2007, 05:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by John Blonn View Post
This thread isn't supposed to exist. Dylan told me that the Final Cut would be undebunkable.

Given Dylan's track record for accuracy does this anomaly surprise you?
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Old 11th November 2007, 05:16 PM   #13
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What is with "Saeed al Ghamdi" and others attended the Defense Language institute? Yeah, I am sure plenty of others went there, but what does that have to do with your conspiracy? And LTC Steven Butler did not confirm it was a hijacker, he just wrote a letter to the editor of the Monterey Newspaper saying that Bush did it.
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Old 11th November 2007, 05:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by LashL View Post
LOL your post actually made me dig up that album and listen to it for the first time in years.

Thanks!
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Old 11th November 2007, 05:41 PM   #15
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i just found one they claim the mujahadin turned into al queda, that is false, radacls in it turned into the taliban
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Old 11th November 2007, 05:48 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jackob View Post
i just found one they claim the mujahadin turned into al queda, that is false, radacls in it turned into the taliban
Mujahedin basically means a militia set up to 'defend' islamic interests. That could apply to the Habr Gedir of Somalia, the Janjaweed of Sudan, the Taliban, Hamas, Hizbollah, fatah, abu nidal group, the soldiers of the Ottoman empire, the tribesmen who fought alongside T.E. Lawrence, the army of Saladin and so forth.

As with other things, the term self defence can mean different things to different people.

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Old 11th November 2007, 06:00 PM   #17
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Hmm... from a commentator at LCF:

Quote:
It really can't be described as a 'conspiracy' film because no real theories were advanced. It simply cites the more dubious aspects of the official story and media coverage without trying to fill in the blanks.
Is there anything to debunk?
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Old 11th November 2007, 06:01 PM   #18
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Haven't seen final cut yet(and won't until I can DL it free) but from the trailor there's already an error: tha of the 9/11 Commission testimony of Norman Mineta. Yet anouther editing job by them to make it sound more devious than what it really turns out to be.
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Old 11th November 2007, 06:01 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by peteweaver View Post
Mujahedin basically means a militia set up to 'defend' islamic interests. That could apply to the Habr Gedir of Somalia, the Janjaweed of Sudan, the Taliban, Hamas, Hizbollah, fatah, abu nidal group, the soldiers of the Ottoman empire, the tribesmen who fought alongside T.E. Lawrence, the army of Saladin and so forth.

As with other things, the term self defence can mean different things to different people.
This is close enough. The term actually means a militia who 'struggles' against a supposed oppressive or unjust source and can mean anything from an insurgent force to a group of freedom fighters to a righteously-formed militia. The term has been usurped by fundementalists these days.

But yeah, peteweaver gets the kewpie doll on that one.
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Old 11th November 2007, 06:13 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by MetalliSociety View Post
Haven't seen final cut yet(and won't until I can DL it free) but from the trailor there's already an error: tha of the 9/11 Commission testimony of Norman Mineta. Yet anouther editing job by them to make it sound more devious than what it really turns out to be.
it is on google video in 8 parts now
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Old 11th November 2007, 06:18 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by GreNME View Post
This is close enough. The term actually means a militia who 'struggles' against a supposed oppressive or unjust source and can mean anything from an insurgent force to a group of freedom fighters to a righteously-formed militia. The term has been usurped by fundementalists these days.

But yeah, peteweaver gets the kewpie doll on that one.
This is true, but the correctness of its use in Final Cut depends on its context. Truthers often falsely claim that Arab Mujahedin, including what would be the nucleus of al Qaeda, were funded in part by the U.S. via Pakistan's ISI. That's the "bin Laden was a U.S. agent" argument. Of course it was the Afghan Mujahedin who received that funding, and bin Laden despised the U.S. at that time.
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Old 11th November 2007, 06:23 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by jackob View Post
it is on google video in 8 parts now
Link? I couldn't find it anywhere on there.
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Old 11th November 2007, 06:27 PM   #23
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http://video.google.com/videosearch?...0&so=1&start=0

That didn't take long.

ETA: Methinks sales are going to drop off pretty fast now. Anyone with a live LCF account want to spread the good news?
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Old 11th November 2007, 06:31 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
This is true, but the correctness of its use in Final Cut depends on its context. Truthers often falsely claim that Arab Mujahedin, including what would be the nucleus of al Qaeda, were funded in part by the U.S. via Pakistan's ISI. That's the "bin Laden was a U.S. agent" argument. Of course it was the Afghan Mujahedin who received that funding, and bin Laden despised the U.S. at that time.
Yeah, I don't think I disagreed with that. In fact, I'd say that the 'correctness' of its use in Loose Change is about nil.
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Old 11th November 2007, 06:45 PM   #25
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i just got done watching the part 8 on google, and i am alittle disapointed the last piece of evidence might be true. they claim that a guy from the nst wouldnt give a guy talking about molten steel his email adress
how can this be i can feel the revolution starting
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Old 11th November 2007, 06:49 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Gravy View Post
This is true, but the correctness of its use in Final Cut depends on its context. Truthers often falsely claim that Arab Mujahedin, including what would be the nucleus of al Qaeda, were funded in part by the U.S. via Pakistan's ISI. That's the "bin Laden was a U.S. agent" argument. Of course it was the Afghan Mujahedin who received that funding, and bin Laden despised the U.S. at that time.
I would point out that some of the funding that Maktab al-Khadamat (MAK) (The precurser to Al Qaeda) received did in fact come from the US, but not from the Government, rather from muslim charieties inside the US.

However, having said that, the agreement between the Pakistani ISI and the CIA was very strict in that the CIA had to be hands off. They were to give the money and weapons to the ISI and then the Pakistanis would decide who got what. They selected a number of Afghani groups who they considered pro-islamic and not a danger to becoming pro-pushtun independance and then supplied them with the weapons and money they were getting from the CIA. The MAK itself never saw any of that money, and neither did the other foreign fighters (most of whom never did much in the way of fighting anyway) that were in the camps, the Pakistanis saw to that. When the CIA did start to spread deeper into the camps and Afghanistan itself, they also made sure they picked out certain groups to back, none of them being the MAK. In fact OBL's main job early on with the MAK was as fund raiser to help pay their way.
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Old 11th November 2007, 07:35 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
They show Curt Weldon with a chart showing Mohamed Atta, without mentioning that the chart was a recreation, not the supposed original chart produced prior to 9-11.

They also show an Air Force officer saying "We fought many phantoms that day," without mentioning that he's not referring to their supposed "insertions" but to phantom Flight 11, which the military believed was still airborne long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center, and to other flights which were believed to have possibly been hijacked like Delta 1989.
Why did the military believe AA11 was stilll airborne?

Oh yeah because it never disappeared off of the radar. In fact it stayed on the radar for a good 45 minutes or so afterwards I believe.

Explain.
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Old 11th November 2007, 07:39 PM   #28
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Do you have evidence that it stayed on the radar screen for 45 minutes?
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Old 11th November 2007, 07:44 PM   #29
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Talk about selective use of evidence. Dylan states that Hani Hanjour came to the US to become a pilot but failed to complete any courses, but did not finish them. Hello, he already had a license before he came!

At least he dropped the insulting Burlingame thing.
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Old 11th November 2007, 07:48 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by TheRedWorm View Post
Do you have evidence that it stayed on the radar screen for 45 minutes?

Erase the time because I believe that was the amount I heard.

Regardless it stayed on radar long enough for the military to "confirm" that it was "definitely another plane that hit the tower" and that AA11 was "still airborne and still a hijack" to the FAA?

Those quoted words I recall directly from the recordings.
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Old 11th November 2007, 07:52 PM   #31
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So, you were wrong about your 45 minute claim, yet you expect us to trust your memory to provide correct and in context quotes from (?) recordings?
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Old 11th November 2007, 07:54 PM   #32
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So there are more errors in LC:FC. Does that mean that there will be a LC:FC Redux?

To ruin a good book and basically quote what I said in a different thread:

I can see it now, somewhere in LC land a peon is sitting in a cubicle which has two pneumatic tubes, one for messages and one for bigger things. There is a speakwrite and a telescreen with a picture of this Dylan guy and news continuously saying how the troofer movement is growing at astronomical proportions.

A message drops through the smaller tube and the peon takes it.

LC:FC malreported doubleplusungood crimethink refs debunkable rewrite fullwise upsub antefiling.
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Old 11th November 2007, 07:56 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by TheRedWorm View Post
So, you were wrong about your 45 minute claim, yet you expect us to trust your memory to provide correct and in context quotes from (?) recordings?
So you're now actually denying AA11 remained on the radar after it's impact with the North Tower?

Really?

Please say yes.
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Old 11th November 2007, 07:58 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
So there are more errors in LC:FC. Does that mean that there will be a LC:FC Redux?

To ruin a good book and basically quote what I said in a different thread:

I can see it now, somewhere in LC land a peon is sitting in a cubicle which has two pneumatic tubes, one for messages and one for bigger things. There is a speakwrite and a telescreen with a picture of this Dylan guy and news continuously saying how the troofer movement is growing at astronomical proportions.

A message drops through the smaller tube and the peon takes it.

LC:FC malreported doubleplusungood crimethink refs debunkable rewrite fullwise upsub antefiling.

So the errors are that it was a replica of the Able Danger board (not inaccurate - just not the original) and that someone they used as a source actually used someone else for their source in their article?

Wow those are awesome debunking arguments there!
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Old 11th November 2007, 08:01 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by TC329 View Post
So you're now actually denying AA11 remained on the radar after it's impact with the North Tower?

Really?

Please say yes.

That's not what I said. I simply asked you to provide evidence for your claim. It sounds as if you can, so, if you don't mind, present it.
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Old 11th November 2007, 08:15 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by TC329 View Post
Why did the military believe AA11 was stilll airborne?

Oh yeah because it never disappeared off of the radar. In fact it stayed on the radar for a good 45 minutes or so afterwards I believe.

Explain.
That would be incorrect.
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Old 11th November 2007, 08:17 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by TC329 View Post
So you're now actually denying AA11 remained on the radar after it's impact with the North Tower?

Really?

Please say yes.

That is absolutely correct. They weren not able to confirm that it was flight 11 to begin with, hence thinking later that one of the other planes may have been flight 11 since it too didn't have a transponder on.
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Old 11th November 2007, 08:17 PM   #38
apathoid
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Let's start a compilation thread here for all the mistakes and bunk.

{snip}

Wouldn't it be easier on the JREF's bandwidth to make a list of things LCFC got right?

I'll start:





......that's about it for now. I'll update as I keep watching.
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Old 11th November 2007, 08:21 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by TC329 View Post
Why did the military believe AA11 was stilll airborne?

Oh yeah because it never disappeared off of the radar. In fact it stayed on the radar for a good 45 minutes or so afterwards I believe.

Explain.
Because one of the people in ATC heard during a conference call that it was still in the air, and erroneously pssed it on to NEADS. If you want to know more, send him a PM, he posts here under the name cheapshot
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Last edited by PhantomWolf; 11th November 2007 at 08:23 PM.
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Old 11th November 2007, 08:29 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by TheRedWorm View Post
That's not what I said. I simply asked you to provide evidence for your claim. It sounds as if you can, so, if you don't mind, present it.
The NORAD Tapes.

Do your homework.

Aren't you a researcher?
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