ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 7th September 2017, 11:49 AM   #41
fleabeetle
Muse
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 548
Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
When you consider the fact that the story of a supernatural phantom in the Cairngorms in Scotland is often discussed as being a Yeti by Bigfoot-believers, you kind of get the gist about how their brains work (or don't work.)

Everything is a Bigfoot, even Werewolves and Goatmen, because, oddly, those things don't exist, but Bigfoot does.

I wonder if Werewolf-believers consider all Bigfoot sightings to be Lycan in origin.
(My bolding) -- I wouldn't be a bit surprised.

I've found that many passionate Bigfoot-as-an-undiscovered-flesh-and-blood-creature believers seem to hate anyone who suggests that there might be anything supernatural / paranormal about BF, with even more incandescent fury than they hate scientific rationalists who are convinced that Bigfoot doesn't exist -- not outside people's minds, anyway. I could never make any sense of why this is so -- other than just, "people are strange".
fleabeetle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th September 2017, 03:55 PM   #42
BillC
Bazooka Joe
 
BillC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,533
"Unsolved" ship sinkings associated with the Bermuda Triangle bug me. There really is so little mystery about them. Ships sink, it happens. One of the classic Bermuda Triangle disappearing vessels was the Cotopaxi, which usually appears in the literature with an air of awe. In reality, the ship radioed that it was listing and taking on water in a heavy storm, facts that are always omitted in the paranormal press.
__________________
"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams
"If homeopathy works, then obviously the less you use it, the stronger it gets. So the best way to apply homeopathy is to not use it at all." - Phil Plait

Last edited by BillC; 9th September 2017 at 03:56 PM.
BillC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2017, 07:52 PM   #43
Gilbert Syndrome
Philosopher
 
Gilbert Syndrome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Aigburth, Liverpool, UK
Posts: 5,382
Originally Posted by fleabeetle View Post
(My bolding) -- I wouldn't be a bit surprised.

I've found that many passionate Bigfoot-as-an-undiscovered-flesh-and-blood-creature believers seem to hate anyone who suggests that there might be anything supernatural / paranormal about BF, with even more incandescent fury than they hate scientific rationalists who are convinced that Bigfoot doesn't exist -- not outside people's minds, anyway. I could never make any sense of why this is so -- other than just, "people are strange".
I love it when the two groups (Paranormal Bigfoot & Flesh 'n' Blood Bigfoot) cross paths.

The best Bigfoot believers, imo, are the ones who lump them in with aliens and UFO's.

The folks who subscribe to a UK Bigfoot kind of have to go along with the supernatural take, because obviously a British Bigfoot is about as likely as a sold-out 2017 Milli Vanilli world-tour.

It's hard for a Bigfooter worth his salt to outright deny a British Bigfoot, as it kind of craps all over their own US Bigfoot when they have to discount so many apparently "rational" eye-witness reports.

Meanwhile, the Dogman fans are trying to drum up some interest in their cryptid which took a swan dive when that Michigan footage turned out to be a bloke in a ghillie suit! Bless 'em.
__________________
Generic proclamation of positivity:

Scouse saying - Go 'ed, is right, nice one, boss, well in, sound, belter, made up.

Usage: 'Go 'ed, lad, get us an ale in, nice one.'
Gilbert Syndrome is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th September 2017, 07:55 PM   #44
Gilbert Syndrome
Philosopher
 
Gilbert Syndrome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Aigburth, Liverpool, UK
Posts: 5,382
Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I'm not sure if it fits in the paranormal sense, but those who insist they were kidnapped/experimented on/had sex with some creature from another planet.

Yeah, that one bugs me.
Hard to blame a sexless UFO fan for claiming to have had sex that was out of this world.
__________________
Generic proclamation of positivity:

Scouse saying - Go 'ed, is right, nice one, boss, well in, sound, belter, made up.

Usage: 'Go 'ed, lad, get us an ale in, nice one.'
Gilbert Syndrome is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 03:47 AM   #45
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 79,229
Originally Posted by Setsurinvich View Post
Do you guys have any sort of pet peeve stories about the supernatural that really annoy you? Especially ones that weren't properly debunked but absurdly outrageous?

Mine would be Johanna Michaelsen and her psychic surgeon friend which I had already mentioned a few times on this forum. Its the story of one womans trip of one form of fundamentalism to another
Ancient buildings requiring aliens. Yes we don't know for certain exactly how some of the ancient buildings were engineered - although we know many ways in which they could have been given the known technology and knowledge of the time.

But that doesn't mean it was out of the ken of humans at the time. After all many of these impressive ancient alien built wonders are the simplest of buildings i.e. a mound. A pyramid is a hill with straight edges!
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 10:13 AM   #46
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 7,402
Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
For me, there doesn't need to be a definitive debunking for me to accept that nonsense has occurred and that there's no room for any actual supernatural activity to have taken place.

Usually, there's a solid and rational alternative to the nonsense being proposed, so it just comes down to whether or not you prefer the fantastical tale, or the mundane explanation.
There is also always the possibility that the teller of the tale flat out lied. If anybody ever actually comes up with substantive evidence for something "paranormal", it would not upset me. I would just go from "********" to, "I wonder how that works".

I would be flat out ecstatic if good evidence for visitation by intelligent ET's ever cropped up. I don't think that is impossible, but I do think it's very low probability and that there is no credible evidence that it has actually happened.
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 10:15 AM   #47
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 7,402
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Ancient buildings requiring aliens. Yes we don't know for certain exactly how some of the ancient buildings were engineered - although we know many ways in which they could have been given the known technology and knowledge of the time.

But that doesn't mean it was out of the ken of humans at the time. After all many of these impressive ancient alien built wonders are the simplest of buildings i.e. a mound. A pyramid is a hill with straight edges!
It really annoys me when somebody asserts that geometric precision in ancient structures is evidence of alien intervention. Do they really think it's that hard to do?

Apparently they do, because they themselves have no clue how to do it.
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th September 2017, 10:32 AM   #48
Gilbert Syndrome
Philosopher
 
Gilbert Syndrome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Aigburth, Liverpool, UK
Posts: 5,382
Originally Posted by CORed View Post
There is also always the possibility that the teller of the tale flat out lied. If anybody ever actually comes up with substantive evidence for something "paranormal", it would not upset me. I would just go from "********" to, "I wonder how that works".

I would be flat out ecstatic if good evidence for visitation by intelligent ET's ever cropped up. I don't think that is impossible, but I do think it's very low probability and that there is no credible evidence that it has actually happened.
I agree. My take is that it's all mis-identifications and foul play.

I just find it funny that people who do believe are kind of forced into a position in which they have to entertain a paranormal aspect, because otherwise they have to claim that they too think it's all down to mis-identifications and foul play, and they don't want to do that, as it kind of quashes their own beliefs in the creature to an extent. If a whole group of "sightings" and "encounters" can be lies and mistakes, then it doesn't say much for the rest of the sightings and encounters.
__________________
Generic proclamation of positivity:

Scouse saying - Go 'ed, is right, nice one, boss, well in, sound, belter, made up.

Usage: 'Go 'ed, lad, get us an ale in, nice one.'
Gilbert Syndrome is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 08:54 PM   #49
Sir Robin Goodfellow
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,804
The death of Elisa Lam brings out the paranormal enthusiasts from time to time. The sad circumstances of her last hours are no mystery at all.
Sir Robin Goodfellow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 10:10 AM   #50
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 21,171
Originally Posted by Sir Robin Goodfellow View Post
The death of Elisa Lam brings out the paranormal enthusiasts from time to time. The sad circumstances of her last hours are no mystery at all.
I've met more than a few people who think there's a mystery behind an Elisa Lam thing; but all of the ones I've talked to seem to think she was stalked or drugged and murdered. I haven't yet heard any suggest anything paranormal about it.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 10:51 AM   #51
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 21,171
Originally Posted by fleabeetle View Post
I had only ever before heard of the “Chickamauga Green Eyes” thing, in one context. That was, the Bigfoot issue – over which (risking being ridiculed here, by saying this) I’ve tried to keep an open mind. On my just now directly Googling “Chickamauga Green Eyes” for the first time, it was brought home to me that there are a wide variety of descriptions of the phenomenon by supposed encounterers of it (and that some people allege its having been present in the area, before the Civil War) – many of them, though, involving green-eyed bipedal figures on the “large” side, and displaying some shagginess of hair.

In places where the proposition “Bigfoot is a real creature” is enthusiastically given voice to, I have seen the Chickamauga apparition described as a Bigfoot-like hairy giant – with green eyes, of course – seen prowling the battlefield after the end of the fighting, and doing some dismembering and eating of corpses. My today’s findings as above, have been my first encounter with different variants of the tale. The Bigfoot devotees of course take their version of it, as evidence of specimen(s) of their favourite creature being alive and well in Georgia in 1863. While I don't consider with total certainty, that everything about this told-of apparition is, self-evidently, arrant crap; I do reckon the just-above-mentioned, an instance of “To a Bigfooter, all things are Bigfooty”.
Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
When you consider the fact that the story of a supernatural phantom in the Cairngorms in Scotland is often discussed as being a Yeti by Bigfoot-believers, you kind of get the gist about how their brains work (or don't work.)
In fact it wouldn't surprise me if it were somehow revealed that descriptions of the Green Eyes phenomenon as belonging to a "large bipedal figure displaying some shagginess of hair" did not even exist until the first time a relatively modern Bigfooter heard about the Chickamauga Green Eyes. Because Bigfoot mania is somewhat sarcophageous that way; I've seen a long list of various Native American tribes' alleged names for Bigfoot which is supposed to demonstrate that back then everybody knew about the creature, but a large number of the names on the list belong to completely supernatural figures - forest spirits and such.

And you are right about werewolf believers having the same capacity. There is a specifically Navajo belief about a figure called a "skinwalker" - essentially the evil version of a Navajo medicine man; an otherwise normal human with some magical powers they use for bad ends. One of their alleged powers is being able to take on certain attributes of an animal like its speed, strength, sensitive hearing, or suchlike, by wearing a specially-prepared pelt. They could do this with any kind of animal; but in the mid-90's after entering the public consciousness, the actual substance of the belief was discarded and "skinwalker" became popularly treated as the general "Native American name" for what was essentially the European werewolf.

And interestingly, the "skinwalker" name has been hijacked yet again since then. Within only the last couple of years, "skinwalker" (and, also interestingly, "Goatman") has come to be used as the name for a popularly written-about internet horror fiction forest monster with supernatural aspects - a figure that's decidedly neither a human medicine man nor a werewolf. Or, for that matter, Bigfoot-like.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 11:21 AM   #52
Gilbert Syndrome
Philosopher
 
Gilbert Syndrome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Aigburth, Liverpool, UK
Posts: 5,382
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
In fact it wouldn't surprise me if it were somehow revealed that descriptions of the Green Eyes phenomenon as belonging to a "large bipedal figure displaying some shagginess of hair" did not even exist until the first time a relatively modern Bigfooter heard about the Chickamauga Green Eyes. Because Bigfoot mania is somewhat sarcophageous that way; I've seen a long list of various Native American tribes' alleged names for Bigfoot which is supposed to demonstrate that back then everybody knew about the creature, but a large number of the names on the list belong to completely supernatural figures - forest spirits and such.

And you are right about werewolf believers having the same capacity. There is a specifically Navajo belief about a figure called a "skinwalker" - essentially the evil version of a Navajo medicine man; an otherwise normal human with some magical powers they use for bad ends. One of their alleged powers is being able to take on certain attributes of an animal like its speed, strength, sensitive hearing, or suchlike, by wearing a specially-prepared pelt. They could do this with any kind of animal; but in the mid-90's after entering the public consciousness, the actual substance of the belief was discarded and "skinwalker" became popularly treated as the general "Native American name" for what was essentially the European werewolf.

And interestingly, the "skinwalker" name has been hijacked yet again since then. Within only the last couple of years, "skinwalker" (and, also interestingly, "Goatman") has come to be used as the name for a popularly written-about internet horror fiction forest monster with supernatural aspects - a figure that's decidedly neither a human medicine man nor a werewolf. Or, for that matter, Bigfoot-like.
Exactly. The native stories about mythical creatures are routinely misinterpreted by Bigfooters who seek to find evidence of their favourite monster in the lore of older cultures, it's the same with the Yeti of Asia/Russia, etc.

These things are blown out of proportion in an attempt to give such cryptids a backstory that they don't really have. When you really take a good look at "ape-man" type creatures throughout folklore, they're very rarely similar to the modern day depiction of what a Bigfoot is supposed to be.

Everything from giants, wildmen, demons and forest spirits are hammered into a Bigfoot shaped hole to make it seem like there's more to these "mysteries" than is being claimed.
__________________
Generic proclamation of positivity:

Scouse saying - Go 'ed, is right, nice one, boss, well in, sound, belter, made up.

Usage: 'Go 'ed, lad, get us an ale in, nice one.'
Gilbert Syndrome is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:43 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.