ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags past life memories , reincarnation

Reply
Old 13th September 2017, 11:41 PM   #161
Porpoise of Life
Illuminator
 
Porpoise of Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,446
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
Just curious, have you guys looked into reincarnation very much? What have you seen that dissuaded you from a belief in reincarnation? If it's something you read/watched/heard online can you post it here? If it's not online can you tell me what it was? If your disbelief comes from your own convictions can you tell me what those are? Basically, what are your reasons for your disbelief in reincarnation?
You're trying to reset the thread. You ignore everyone's posts, try to get back to 'objections' you can complain about, while what you should be doing is providing evidence for your claims.
I know you don't have any, do you prefer to let us make a claim so you can call everyone closed minded while you pretend to hold the high ground against those mean skeptics.

Just
Give
Us
Your
Evidence.

If you don't have any, stop claiming reincarnation is real.
Porpoise of Life is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2017, 01:13 AM   #162
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 25,340
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
Just curious, have you guys looked into reincarnation very much? What have you seen that dissuaded you from a belief in reincarnation? If it's something you read/watched/heard online can you post it here? If it's not online can you tell me what it was? If your disbelief comes from your own convictions can you tell me what those are? Basically, what are your reasons for your disbelief in reincarnation?
Just curious,Wonder234, have you looked into flying spaghetti monsters very much? What have you seen that dissuaded you from a belief in flying spaghetti monsters? If it's something you read/watched/heard online can you post it here? If it's not online can you tell me what it was? If your disbelief comes from your own convictions can you tell me what those are? Basically, what are your reasons for your disbelief in flying spaghetti monsters?

Dave
__________________
Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
Dave Rogers is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2017, 01:34 AM   #163
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 79,229
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
Why would the address and the names of his kids not be valid?

He did say what his past self's favorite soda was, a soda that was discontinued 50 years before his supposed new incarnation. And there have been cases where intimate details have been reported.

...snip...
One presumes than his knowledge of the world was the same as a person who had lived for decades? So he would know all about sex, he would know how to shave, would know (depending on the dates) how to drive, know maths, geography, other history etc all the things an adult who had lived for decades would know. So at school he would be flying through all the classes since he would already know everything.

In fact he would be an adult in all but age.

Was he?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2017, 01:43 AM   #164
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 29,749
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
I wanted to start a chain of objection where someone objects to my last objection on the first post, and then someone objects to that persons objection and so on, so as to see what holds up, and to get closer to the truth on this matter.

Looks like a variation on Jabba's Effective DebateTM.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th September 2017, 02:08 AM   #165
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 29,749
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
Just curious, have you guys looked into reincarnation very much? What have you seen that dissuaded you from a belief in reincarnation? If it's something you read/watched/heard online can you post it here? If it's not online can you tell me what it was?

Incidentally, I've posted a request in your evolution thread, that you might have missed because you haven't posted there for a while: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post11994433
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 01:06 PM   #166
Wonder234
Thinker
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 175
I'll stick to the same case I posted earlier about a boy named Ryan Hammons who "remembers" a life as a Hollywood extra named Marty Martin. The link is here;
http://mysteriousfacts.com/hollywood...reincarnation/

Last edited by Wonder234; 18th September 2017 at 01:09 PM.
Wonder234 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 01:22 PM   #167
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 20,795
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
.........What have you seen that dissuaded you from a belief in reincarnation?..........
You're joking, aren't you? On a sceptics site, you think that people should believe in something outside the laws of physics unless there is compelling reason not to? Really?

Look, the default position is this: nothing exists outside the known laws of nature. You think that something does, then OK, show us the evidence. If you've not got any, then adjust your thinking, or keep other more gullible company. In the real world all that stuff is makie uppey bollocks, unless you have overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Clear?
__________________
The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place. The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 01:58 PM   #168
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 9,923
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
I'll stick to the same case I posted earlier about a boy named Ryan Hammons who "remembers" a life as a Hollywood extra named Marty Martin. The link is here;
http://mysteriousfacts.com/hollywood...reincarnation/
The problem with this story is that there is no good reason to believe a single word of it.

To establish the reality of a phenomenon like reincarnation would require extensive, rigorous scientific research of dozens of well documented cases. Anecdotes on crackpot web sites just don't cut it.
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 02:17 PM   #169
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
 
Pixel42's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Malmesbury, UK
Posts: 9,923
Here's an interesting article about a guy who collected dozens of these anecdotes:

http://skepdic.com/stevenson.html
__________________
"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett
Pixel42 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 03:07 PM   #170
John Jones
Penultimate Amazing
 
John Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Iowa USA
Posts: 11,906
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
I'll stick to the same case I posted earlier about a boy named Ryan Hammons who "remembers" a life as a Hollywood extra named Marty Martin. AThe link is here;
http://mysteriousfacts.com/hollywood...reincarnation/
Is that a link to the National Enquirer? it's got stories about a 256year old man, and the top 6 alien effects on ancient Egypt.

Read my sig!
__________________
"Sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from incompetence. = godless Dave
John Jones is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th September 2017, 12:25 AM   #171
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,375
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
I'll stick to the same case I posted earlier about a boy named Ryan Hammons who "remembers" a life as a Hollywood extra named Marty Martin. The link is here;
http://mysteriousfacts.com/hollywood...reincarnation/
Why do you believe that this case is real and exactly as described?
__________________
Read my fantasy novel for free!
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th September 2017, 12:56 AM   #172
Alice Shortcake
Graduate Poster
 
Alice Shortcake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,126
This has been mentioned before, but why does the boy not speak Ukrainian? Why didn't he provide his real name? Shouldn't a fairly rich man be able to give the numbers of his bank accounts?
__________________
Proud member of the Debunkly Skerricks Pack
Alice Shortcake is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th September 2017, 03:45 AM   #173
steenkh
Philosopher
 
steenkh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 5,129
A boy that remembers his past life should also have a tremendous experience. for example, nobody needs to tell him how sex works, because he is already experienced (Marty was married four times)! He should also be able to use tools that he has never been acquainted with before, explain how a Rolls looks like inside and so on.

Where are the references for the article? Why can you only find information about Ryan and Marty on low-credibility sites like mysteriousfacts.com or abovetopsecret.com? In the NBC article it is mentioned that Ryan also gets facts wrong. This reminds us of the very real possibility that the hits are cherry-picked out of a mass of statements, most of which may be wrong.

Dr. Jim B. Tucker seems to be rather alone in his research on reincarnation. One wonders why if the evidence is so good. His Wikipedia page is currently rather uncritical, and even quotes him for some nonsense about how quantum mechanics can make reincarnation work. This is a fun quote:

Quote:
“I believe in the possibility of reincarnation, which is different from saying that I believe in reincarnation,” he explains. “I do think these cases require an explanation that is out of the ordinary, although that certainly doesn’t mean we all reincarnate.”
So reincarnation is possible, but may not happen? If anything, the presumed evidence could mean that although reincarnation should not be possible, it happens.
__________________
Steen

--
Jack of all trades - master of none!
steenkh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 19th September 2017, 05:53 AM   #174
Myriad
Hyperthetical
 
Myriad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 13,179
Wonder, serious question. It appears the only part of the self that carries over from one lifetime to another in reincarnation is a few biographical memories such as can be contained in a few pages or even a paragraph.

If that's so, then if I write a five-page autobiography and after my death a young child reads it and learns it, is that child now me, reincarnated? If you read it after my death, are you now me, reincarnated? What about, if you or the child reads it ten minutes after I wrote it, while I'm still alive?

What is the effective difference between "me" being reincarnated as someone else with different genetic traits, upbringing, and life experiences, and hence different memories (except for possibly the kind of sparse biographical facts about my present life that reincarnation cases typically attempt to demonstrate knowledge of); and me just dying and someone else being born, who someday reads my obituary?
__________________
A zømbie once bit my sister...

Last edited by Myriad; 19th September 2017 at 05:55 AM.
Myriad is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 05:27 AM   #175
Ethan Thane Athen
Graduate Poster
 
Ethan Thane Athen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,786
Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
In a previous thread someone brought up the documentary The Boy Who Lived Before. The youtube link to it no longer seems to be working, but here's the description I cut and pasted at the time:



I goggled 'Barra documentary' and found this short (26 minutes) documentary:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0996476/



It's just the sort of filler programme that might be shown on Scottish daytime TV, and which the young Cameron might have watched and absorbed whilst his parents were out of the room.

I haven't seen either documentary so I don't know how closely (if at all) its contents match Cameron's 'memories', but it does make me wonder how diligent people are in investigating all mundane possibilities before jumping to the supernatural explanation.
Any programme about Barra shows the aeroplanes landing on the beach - it's virtually compulsory. It's also very memorable - it's one of the main things I remember from documentaries that show Barra. It's not surprising at all that someone would come up with this detail and would match your hypothesis. The only vaguely surprising thing about the kid's anecdotes would be the surname he came up with. The majority of people on Barra are McNeils - it's the home island of that clan (also Gigha and Colonsay for offshoots). Mind you, if you were watching a documentary with almost everyone called McNeil and then one pops up called Robertson maybe that's the one that would stick, so even that may not be surprising...
Ethan Thane Athen is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 06:38 AM   #176
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,702
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
I'm just curious.

You say there's no good evidence. Does that mean you've seen evidence and thought that it wasn't good? What was the evidence and why didn't you think it was good?
Just curious. Yeah, sure.
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 09:38 AM   #177
SOdhner
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,272
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
I'll stick to the same case I posted earlier about <snip>
Okay so then you're not planning to reply to the answers I (and others) gave to your previous questions?
SOdhner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th September 2017, 03:39 PM   #178
Mojo
Mostly harmless
 
Mojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 29,749
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
I'll stick to the same case I posted earlier about a boy named Ryan Hammons who "remembers" a life as a Hollywood extra named Marty Martin. The link is here;
http://mysteriousfacts.com/hollywood...reincarnation/

Remember what Porpoise of Life said about trying to reset the thread? If not, it's just up at the top of the page.
__________________
"You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield

"The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky
Mojo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2017, 01:09 AM   #179
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 56,375
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
I'm just curious.

You say there's no good evidence. Does that mean you've seen evidence and thought that it wasn't good? What was the evidence and why didn't you think it was good?
There's a difference between seeing evidence and deciding that it is not good and not seeing good evidence.
__________________
Read my fantasy novel for free!
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2017, 02:20 PM   #180
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 17,723
This thread needs more Bonnie Prince Charlie.
carlitos is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd September 2017, 04:00 AM   #181
P.J. Denyer
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,844
Originally Posted by Wonder234 View Post
I'll stick to the same case I posted earlier about a boy named Ryan Hammons who "remembers" a life as a Hollywood extra named Marty Martin. The link is here;
http://mysteriousfacts.com/hollywood...reincarnation/
Any academic sources for this case containing detailed information? A clickbate article on a site which also contains an article on 'The Top 6 Alien Influences on Ancient Egypt' is hardly compelling.
P.J. Denyer is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th September 2017, 02:51 PM   #182
Wolrab
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,099
Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
A boy that remembers his past life should also have a tremendous experience. for example, nobody needs to tell him how sex works, because he is already experienced (Marty was married four times)! He should also be able to use tools that he has never been acquainted with before, explain how a Rolls looks like inside and so on.

Where are the references for the article? Why can you only find information about Ryan and Marty on low-credibility sites like mysteriousfacts.com or abovetopsecret.com? In the NBC article it is mentioned that Ryan also gets facts wrong. This reminds us of the very real possibility that the hits are cherry-picked out of a mass of statements, most of which may be wrong.

Dr. Jim B. Tucker seems to be rather alone in his research on reincarnation. One wonders why if the evidence is so good. His Wikipedia page is currently rather uncritical, and even quotes him for some nonsense about how quantum mechanics can make reincarnation work. This is a fun quote:


So reincarnation is possible, but may not happen? If anything, the presumed evidence could mean that although reincarnation should not be possible, it happens.
Marty might not have known dick about sex, thus the 4 marriages.
__________________
"Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov
Wolrab is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » General Skepticism and The Paranormal

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:43 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.