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Tags General Skepticism humor , logical fallacies , pedophilia conspiracies

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Old 2nd October 2017, 06:52 PM   #401
carlitos
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Pedophiles in power in Europe and hollywood

Playboy makes their centerfold 1/3 bigger.

A sane person thinks “bigger photo of naked centerfold”

A nut bar thinks it’s to allow would-be pedophiles to view the younger photos from a different page folded up against the centerfold’s stomach or whatever.


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Old 2nd October 2017, 07:14 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacal View Post

The juxtaposition of little girl photos and nude photos does not prove in the slightest a pedo purpose. Ms. Reisman is simply engaged in looking for a pattern which of course she will find because it fits her agenda. The idea that this is designed to habituate people to pedo practices is utter bull and something Ms. Reisman pulled from her backside.

Please present the evidence that pedophiles use Playboy for erotic purposes in any numbers.

Yes facts are facts. And the following are also "data points". Ms. Reisman is a liar, distorter and true believer out on a crusade against "evil". She deliberately and coolly lies to advance her agenda has illustrated by her lies about Gay people. She is to use a descriptor a fanatic who does not hesitate to use foul means to destroy her enemies.

Her "research" about Playboy's alleged, fantasized pedo agenda is par for the course for a established liar and falsifier. Ms. Reisman's fantasies regarding the reasons for the juxtaposition is of course just that deranged fantasies.

Please present the "evidence" that pedophiles routinely masturbate to such juxtapositions. ...

...Also present the evidence that Playboy was deliberately playing for the pedo market.
The paper is primarily about sexualization of kids by playboy. Boys and girls.
I would not claim either of your two were (hilited items) I did not see them asserted by anyone. Hence, they remind me of strawmen.
Nope the paper was primarily about fanatic / liar who distorted and falsified to advance an agenda. I have read other pieces of crap by this liar and the insinuations in the paper you refer too are rather clear and they more than just subtly hint that Playboy was playing to the pedo market. Of course if there was no actual plan to corrupt Americas morals by planting pedo propaganda, deliberately in Playboy, then of course Ms. Reisman's grand narrative of a vast conspiracy to corrupt America's morals and turn us over to the Gay Mafia planning another Holocaust. If it just sexualization of children done without such an intent then Ms. Reisman's grand narrative falls apart.

Quote:
Below is the only appearance, once, of the p-word:

...the new four-fold design creates neuronal pathways that must link innocent children with strong Playboy orgasm-based stimuli. Inevitably this stimuli effects how children inside and outside the home are perceived and treated by pedophiles and/or Playboy users.
God what a collection of addled bull*! I note that it seems to exactly say that pedophiles and others will masturbate to this stimuli. Of course Ms. Reisman presents zero evidence for her neuronal pathways etc., bull.

Quote:
I posted the paper because it seemed relevant. It seemed to imply that the juxtaposed kid pics could promote pedo like thinking in non pedos. If I am wrong about that, so be it. The sexualization of kids in general is relevant IMO. I think the paper correctly portrays how playboy sexualized kids, and then quit when someone turned a light on it.
You do realize that the sexualization of children in our society is sadly very common. Just look at infant Beauty Pageants, and other crap. Or are Beauty Pageants for kids part of the conspiracy? But you see Ms. Reisman had and has little interest in that. She is a believer in a massive conspiracy to corrupt American morals and lead us down the garden path to a depraved future of totalitarian horror. Thus her writings and "research" are all tailored to prove this point in her battle to impose her vision of proper morality. Thus she demonizes Gay people, focuses on Playboy Magazine and ignores such things as the Purity Balls etc., which don't fit her agenda.

Ms. Reisman is a liar and a certified conspiracy spouting loon. All of which is easily documented. Nothing she says or writes can be taken seriously until proven otherwise.
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Old 2nd October 2017, 08:37 PM   #403
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Now I'm ready to entertain the notion, advocated by many, that the Playboy portrayal of femininity is not the best, and that women can be and no doubt are exploited in all sorts of ways, and that the Playboy bunny and centerfold and what not represent something far less than the best in society. But if, as a start, we accept that the nude centerfold pinup sort of image is not itself wrong, then let's get real. Those women did not spring fully formed from the head of Zeus or something. They are people who were little girls before they were women, and if one is trying, however feebly, to characterize them as whole people, then one of the rather obvious things to do is to tell their life story as people, and guess what? That story begins with them as little girls. Maybe, just maybe, the craziness is not in the way the story is told, but in the way it is read by misguided mushheads who can't themselves look at a little girl without immersing her in their own fantasy of lewdness.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 06:30 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Now I'm ready to entertain the notion, advocated by many, that the Playboy portrayal of femininity is not the best, and that women can be and no doubt are exploited in all sorts of ways, and that the Playboy bunny and centerfold and what not represent something far less than the best in society. But if, as a start, we accept that the nude centerfold pinup sort of image is not itself wrong, then let's get real. Those women did not spring fully formed from the head of Zeus or something. They are people who were little girls before they were women, and if one is trying, however feebly, to characterize them as whole people, then one of the rather obvious things to do is to tell their life story as people, and guess what? That story begins with them as little girls. Maybe, just maybe, the craziness is not in the way the story is told, but in the way it is read by misguided mushheads who can't themselves look at a little girl without immersing her in their own fantasy of lewdness.
One would think this would be obvious to everyone other than dingbats like the author of that piece but evidently not.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 07:12 AM   #405
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Henri, you appear to be eagerly quoting every baseless, ******** witchhunt claim you can find. Is it actually your plan to cry wolf so many times that everyone ceases to believe child molesters even exist?
This point has been made many times about several "satanic pedophile ring" hoax promoters in the UK, one of whom actually hosted a convicted pedophile in her own home, then delayed reporting his disappearance when he fled to escape justice
Others regularly promote extreme views and associate them with the known hoaxes concerning satanic child abuse/murders etc (ie that they happen when no evidence exists that they did happen, some have been investigated and found to be false)

So yes there is considerable speculation that at least some of these people are doing it deliberately in order to promote the idea that anyone who reports child abuse is a nutcase, something that real abusers and pedo's would find very helpful

This in no way validates the 'pedophiles rule hollywood/parliament' narrative the hoaxers often promote, but does make one wonder about their real motives when they continue to associate with known child abusers/molesters IRL....
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Old 3rd October 2017, 07:26 AM   #406
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And seriously...
rense.com???
trash is an insult to real garbage!
(real garbage was at one tme useful, rense.com has never had that distinction)

If rense said the sun rose in the east, I'd be waking up tomorrow and looking west to watch it rise there
because its MUCH more likely the earths rotation stopped and started again going backwards than 'the truth' as appears on rense.com being anything like the truth...
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:20 AM   #407
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
The paper is primarily about sexualization of kids by playboy. Boys and girls.
I would not claim either of your two were (hilited items) I did not see them asserted by anyone. Hence, they remind me of strawmen.
You don't give a crap about pedophilia, you are only here to troll. Don't lecture us about straw-men when you're the basket weaver here.


Quote:
Below is the only appearance, once, of the p-word:

...the new four-fold design creates neuronal pathways that must link innocent children with strong Playboy orgasm-based stimuli. Inevitably this stimuli effects how children inside and outside the home are perceived and treated by pedophiles and/or Playboy users.
And it's a lie. A LIE.

This is the kind of BS you get when a layman tries to make a scientific statement with out having the background, nor doing the research, and making a claim based on uniformed observations.


Quote:
I posted the paper because it seemed relevant. It seemed to imply that the juxtaposed kid pics could promote pedo like thinking in non pedos. If I am wrong about that, so be it. The sexualization of kids in general is relevant IMO. I think the paper correctly portrays how playboy sexualized kids, and then quit when someone turned a light on it.
You can't promote pedophilia. There is no advertising that can take a normal adult and make them comfortable buggering little kids. Playboy included the photos of their centerfold's family photos as part of their "Girl Next Door" narrative (usually showing how they grew out of their awkward phase).

The real causes of pedophilia are many, some are subtle, and a few are tragic. Many predators have suffered brain injuries (concussions) as children, which led to abnormal learned behaviors in puberty which they never grow out of as adults. Example: Playing doctor. Many of us did that as kids. The pedophile did it too, but due to brain injury he never grows out of that first encounter with another naked human, and that age is frozen in their mind. Normal people mature in their desires and expectations while the pedophile never does.

Playboy magazine has nothing to do with this.

The major change in the pedophilia word is the internet. They can now find each other and share their sick pornography with ease, and thanks to the dark web, undetected.

None of the material they share is Playboy.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:44 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
This matter is difficult to detect if Heath's former colleagues all categorically deny it and the victims are regarded by the police as fruitloops. The Mail on Sunday and the Chief Constable of Wiltshire are a bit more sceptical:

http://www.barthsnotes.com/2017/10/0...se-allegations
Well, for a start, these are unevidenced claims about a report yet to be released, from unknown sources, from a paper notorious for inaccurate and untruthful reporting.
Secondly, the report is a police investigation into the allegations. It should come as no surprise to anyone that this report would mention the allegations. What the article does not say, of course, is whether the allegations were true: it says only that the police would have questioned Heath if he had still been alive.

The Mail is trying very hard to make something out of nothing, methinks.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:58 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I hesitate to believe as I am reminded that sometimes investigations can actually be cover-ups. Naturally we sometimes may not know whether or not we are looking at a high level cover up. Trust in media is another issue. Sometimes accusations are false too.
I refer you back to my comment about baseless witchhunting.
Someone is accused of paedophilia. They deny it. "Aha!" scream the witchhunters, "He must be guilty! We don't believe you! Send in the police!"
The police investigate. No evidence is found. "Aha!", cry the witchhunters, "It's a cover-up! The government is protecting their own!"
This is exactly how the witch-hunts of old were conducted. Once accused, there was simply no way to prove your innocence. Most of us look back at this time with a sense of horror and pity, that so many were subjected to mock trials, in a travesty of justice based on hysteria and spite. You, however, appear to be wishing for its return. Do you really want to live in a world in which justice is conductd on a basis of inescapable accusations, rather than evidence?
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
The world wide cover-up by the black robe pedophiles in power being an example. Although that problem was recently exposed and prosecuted somewhat, it could still be happening somewhere. It was members of the clergy rather than members of the judiciary in robes. As far as I know we have not yet heard of this problem in the judiciary.
And yet it was uncovered, very publicly so. If powerful clergy could not protect themselves from investigation, why do you contend that politicians could?
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Then there is the ubiquitous impediment of denial among certain types, other citizens, parents, and peers & colleagues of the pedos. I'd guess police are the least susceptible to this denial. They work the streets. Then there is the information system's record of reliability, and connections to power to consider. Government has placed agents in gatekeeper positions in media for other reasons, a glimpse of the range of possibilities in one arena of corrupted power, and the black arts of deception.
No-one wants to believe their friends/ colleagues/ loved ones could be child abusers. That is entirely natural. It has no bearing on the progress of police investigations. Every mother everywhere has said that about her criminal son or daughter, yet trials and punishments are carried out regardless.

Evidence, please, for this allegation of government-placed "gatekeepers" in the media whose job it is to protect child abusers from publicity. Or indeed, for any other purpose.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 11:31 AM   #410
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Quote:
cosmic yak said

Evidence, please, for this allegation of government-placed "gatekeepers" in the media whose job it is to protect child abusers from publicity. Or indeed, for any other purpose.

Surely you have heard of Operation Mockingbird. We were told it was discontinued after it got outed. We were not told whether or not it was re-named and continues to this day.

Quote:
government-placed "gatekeepers" in the media whose job it is to protect child abusers from publicity
I doubt there is any evidence of "gatekeepers" in the media whose job it is to protect child abusers from publicity, like media not reporting JFK's extramarital exploits back then.

I am not btw saying there actually are gatekeepers in the media whose job it is to protect child abusers from publicity.

Of course your straw government-placed media pedo protectors never existed. Never will. Thats how good straw is made. Of course there were volunteer pedo protecting gatekeepers back in the day. Could still be.

Off topic musing:

I wonder if there is data on what % of strawmen are created unintentionally vs intentionally. I have been in face to face conversations where I was sure some were made unintentionally, which is interesting. Intentionally placed strawmen are easy to understand and not so interesting. The spontaneous unconscious creation of unintentional strawmen is more interesting, IMO.

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Old 3rd October 2017, 11:55 AM   #411
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Yeah... none of that is the evidence that was being asked for.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 02:27 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Tomtomkent View Post
Yeah... none of that is the evidence that was being asked for.


Wow. Of course, demand evidence for a made up strawman.

Cute.

It was like this, my bold:

Evidence, please, for this (non-existent) allegation of (non-existent) government-placed "gatekeepers" in the media whose job it is to protect child abusers from publicity. Or indeed, for any other purpose.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 02:38 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by threadworm View Post
Seriously, does Google not work where you live?
From the last report that we have over here, it would seem that the Bubbalonian empire has never heard of the name "Google" to begin with.

Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Shouldn't this be in humour?

Not because it's funny, but where else could silly stuff go.
Maybe a new subforum should be made?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 03:11 PM   #414
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The Strawman. Intentional or unintentional

Sometimes when strawman shows up I wonder whether it was was placed intentionally vs unintentionally.

I wonder is the writer serious, or are they intentionally throwing off the discussion, (the latter being the definition of the term of course).

How can one know?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 03:41 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Wow. Of course, demand evidence for a made up strawman.

Cute.

It was like this, my bold:

Evidence, please, for this (non-existent) allegation of (non-existent) government-placed "gatekeepers" in the media whose job it is to protect child abusers from publicity. Or indeed, for any other purpose.
The subject of this thread is full of something but I don't think it's straw.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 04:22 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Sometimes when strawman shows up I wonder whether it was was placed intentionally vs unintentionally.

I wonder is the writer serious, or are they intentionally throwing off the discussion, (the latter being the definition of the term of course).

How can one know?
Is Strawman some kind of shoddy superhero?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 04:32 PM   #417
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Often it's a case of no true strawman.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 05:59 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Often it's a case of no true strawman.

I thought that by definition, introducing a strawman is always less than honest.

Intentional introduction of a strawman seems a measure of character or integrity. No member here would ever do it intentionally of course. Thats why I got to thinking of unintentional strawmen.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 06:07 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
No member here would ever do it intentionally of course.
That statement is a strawman.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 06:48 PM   #420
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Sometimes it comes with the strawmansplaining.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 06:50 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
No member here would ever do it intentionally of course.
Are you speaking passive-aggressively?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 06:51 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I thought that by definition, introducing a strawman is always less than honest.

Intentional introduction of a strawman seems a measure of character or integrity. No member here would ever do it intentionally of course. Thats why I got to thinking of unintentional strawmen.
Introductions to the strawman are just proper etiquette.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 07:29 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Sometimes it comes with the strawmansplaining.
Thanks, that almost made me spew my drink on the screen!
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Old 3rd October 2017, 07:46 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by Apathia View Post
Are you speaking passive-aggressively?

I thought it was called sarcasm. I prefer to go with benefit of doubt when the strawman detection alarm bell rings.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 07:48 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Is Strawman some kind of shoddy superhero?

Perhaps to some. What kind of superhero garb would Strawman wear?
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Old 3rd October 2017, 07:50 PM   #426
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The appearance of a strawman often indicates that the argument is failing.

The farmer brings the straw scarecrow to the field when the crows are eating the hell out of his corn.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 07:59 PM   #427
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Of the first few search results rationalwiki is the only one mentioning unintentional strawman. Maybe the others presume all stawmen are woven with ulterior motive.


Quote:
A straw man is a logical fallacy which occurs when a debater intentionally misrepresents their opponent's argument as a weaker version, and rebuts said version — rather than their opponent's genuine argument. Intentional strawmanning is usually done with a certain goal in mind, including:

Avoiding real debate against an opponent's real argument, because the misrepresenter risks losing in fair debate
Making the opponent's position appear ridiculous as a way of poisoning the well

Unintentional misrepresentations are also possible, but in this case, the misrepresenter would only be guilty of simple ignorance. While their argument would still be fallacious, they can be at least excused of malice.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:00 PM   #428
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That statement is a strawman.

Dueling Strawmen

They use little flamethrowers
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:54 PM   #429
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I thought it was called sarcasm. I prefer to go with benefit of doubt when the strawman detection alarm bell rings.
I have a friend who goes headpiece filled with straw every time the Great Wall of Trump is criticized. Just question the logistics and waste of money, and he replies: "Don't you believe a country has the right to control its borders?"
He's not saying this to deceive. He's simply not aware of his fallacy in thinking. Also he has difficulty understanding how he's in error and what the Strawman fallacy means.

Many people kind of drift along with their mental processes without close examination. And you can try to explain to them the disconnect, but if they have an investment in what for them is a moral imperative, a strawman will be an angel.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 08:59 PM   #430
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
That statement is a strawman.
No it isn't.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 09:28 PM   #431
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Typically, the presence of a strawman hints that there are lots of vultures nearby.
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Old 3rd October 2017, 10:58 PM   #432
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Originally Posted by Ron_Tomkins View Post
Typically, the presence of a strawman hints that there are lots of vultures nearby.
No, flying monkeys.
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Old 4th October 2017, 01:57 AM   #433
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Surely you have heard of Operation Mockingbird. We were told it was discontinued after it got outed. We were not told whether or not it was re-named and continues to this day.
I have heard of Operation Mockingbird. I was not aware that any other government apart from the US was involved. I therefore fail to see the relevance to the Edward Heath case.

Do you have any evidence that the operation continued, or is this yet more baseless paranoid speculation?

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post

Evidence, please, for this allegation of government-placed "gatekeepers" in the media whose job it is to protect child abusers from publicity. Or indeed, for any other purpose.
Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
I doubt there is any evidence of "gatekeepers" in the media whose job it is to protect child abusers from publicity, like media not reporting JFK's extramarital exploits back then.

I am not btw saying there actually are gatekeepers in the media whose job it is to protect child abusers from publicity.

Of course your straw government-placed media pedo protectors never existed. Never will. Thats how good straw is made. Of course there were volunteer pedo protecting gatekeepers back in the day. Could still be.

Then please explain the relevance of this:

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Then there is the information system's record of reliability, and connections to power to consider. Government has placed agents in gatekeeper positions in media for other reasons, a glimpse of the range of possibilities in one arena of corrupted power, and the black arts of deception.
If there are no gatekeepers, or they do not protect paedophiles from public reporting, then what was your point here?

You then go on to say there actually were, but volunteers. How did that work, then?
Regarding your continued references to ancient history: are you aware that the world has changed since the 1960's? Are you also aware that reporting of politicians sexual peccadilloes has been a feature of the British press for years? Do the words "Profumo affair" mean anything to you? It also happens in the US. Have you heard of Monica Lewinsky?

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Off topic musing:

I wonder if there is data on what % of strawmen are created unintentionally vs intentionally. I have been in face to face conversations where I was sure some were made unintentionally, which is interesting. Intentionally placed strawmen are easy to understand and not so interesting. The spontaneous unconscious creation of unintentional strawmen is more interesting, IMO.
I don't know, Bubba. You say there were gatekeepers, and imply they protect child abusers. When called on it, you say there weren't. Then you say there were, but volunteers.
It seems to me, given the inconsistent and contradictory nature of your posts, that it would be quite easy to label any challenge as a strawman, so as to avoid having to back up anything you say. Is this your intention?
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Old 4th October 2017, 07:43 AM   #434
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The structure of the strawman fallacy - that which makes it a fallacy - is independent from the intentions or other mental states of the speaker. It is therefore unreasonable to guess intentions. Strawman is strawman.

In discussions with 9/11 Truthers I often wonder at many fallacies and failures of perception of reality: can thsi be intentional? They MUST sense they are plain wrong!? The only way forward is to point out the fallacy. Not to reprimand the other side for ill intent.

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Old 4th October 2017, 09:06 PM   #435
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
The structure of the strawman fallacy - that which makes it a fallacy - is independent from the intentions or other mental states of the speaker. It is therefore unreasonable to guess intentions. Strawman is strawman.

In discussions with 9/11 Truthers I often wonder at many fallacies and failures of perception of reality: can thsi be intentional? They MUST sense they are plain wrong!? The only way forward is to point out the fallacy. Not to reprimand the other side for ill intent.

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Yes, however for future consideration of character and what to expect, it can be useful to know if the speaker is intentionally making up strawmen. My experience is that pointing out the fallacy takes time away from discussion.
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Old 5th October 2017, 12:37 AM   #436
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delete, move

Last edited by Bubba; 5th October 2017 at 12:44 AM. Reason: wrong tread
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Old 5th October 2017, 12:46 AM   #437
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Interesting, and more recent. More research will be needed on this

Researchers at Boston University say "The startling global resurgence of pertussis, or whooping cough, in recent years can largely be attributed to the immunological failures of acellular vaccines, School of Public Health researchers argue in a new journal article."

Resurgence of Whooping Cough May Owe to Vaccine’s Inability to Prevent Infections

https://www.bu.edu/sph/2017/09/21/re...nt-infections/
No kidding, Sherlock. Some medical research may be called for. Duh!

In other news, scientists determine that water is wet!
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Old 5th October 2017, 08:27 AM   #438
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Perhaps to some. What kind of superhero garb would Strawman wear?
Bubba threads, obviously.
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:33 AM   #439
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Originally Posted by isissxn View Post
Wow, that is some smoking gun. A z-list musician spews some self-aggrandizing yellow gossip to acquaintances, film at 11!

What does cocaine have to do with child rape, again?

Using cocaine is depraved. Child rape is depraved.

Obviously the two go hand in hand.

That's just logic.

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Old 6th October 2017, 01:19 AM   #440
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Perhaps to some. What kind of superhero garb would Strawman wear?
A container of glyphosate with holes for arms and legs?
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