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Tags bigfoot , native american myths

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Old 26th February 2008, 10:48 AM   #201
Spektator
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By the way, manofthesea wasn't kidding when he said his Harvard edition of Last of the Mohicans isn't available to the public. It isn't even copyrighted in the United States and doesn't have an exemplar in the Library of Congress.

The edition I used is the 1850 edition, which was edited and corrected by James Fenimore Cooper himself and presumably has his preferred text.
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Old 26th February 2008, 02:09 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by kitakaze View Post
This thread. Native American myths/traditions and bigfoot. Yes?
Yes. Did you watch Episode 4, which featured the late Marjorie M. Halpin in 1984?

Originally Posted by Parcher
Marjorie Halpin (anthropologist and curator of the Museum of Anthropology at the University of BC) surrounded by Native American totems and masks, as she asks us "...how can a being of the mind leave a footprint in the earth?" You may be reminded of archaeologist Kathy Strain's statements on MonsterQuest.
Review of "Manlike Monsters on Trial: Early Records and Modern Evidence" by Dr. Grover Krantz.

Marjorie M. Halpin (partial) Bibliography:

Catlin's Indian Gallery: The George Catlin paintings in the United States National Museum (1965)
Totem Poles: An Illustrated Guide (1981)
Power of Symbols: Masks and Masquerade in the Americas (1983)
Manlike Monsters on Trial: Early Records and Modern Evidence (1987)
Jake Shadbolt, and the Coastal Indian Image (1987)
Leading Prayer Plain and Simple (1990)
Potlatch at Gitsegukla: William Beynon's 1945 Field Notebooks (2000)

Run her name through Google and Amazon to see numerous references (often as book excerpts) to Christianity, and dealing with mythical monsters.
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Old 26th February 2008, 09:08 PM   #203
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Excellent. Thank you, WP. I was aware of Halpin and her 'Man-like Monsters' book but I missed your previous post and clearly I have some studying to do. I'll get up to speed and get back. Looks like there will be much to discuss from that.
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Old 4th March 2008, 10:21 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
One last citation: In the 1850 edition of the entire "Leatherstocking Tales" series, Cooper admitted that his portrait of Indians was "romanticized" and that he was presenting a "beau ideal," not the real thing. In introducing the stories, he comments,


All in all, I don't think there is much, if any, authority for considering the "Manitou" chant anything but a white author's pastiche of what he imagined a war-chant might be.
I agree with this. However, I was not trying to establish the existance of bigfoot by means of Cooper's writings. The term manitou was in a list, since denied, that contained the term manitou as referring to bigfoot. Having a collection of books myself, I decided to look at a few. Whadayaknow, I found a cool poem in the first American literature book that I checked. Above all, it contained the whoop and yell, somewhat associated with modern bigfoot. Not to mention the location of this fictional incident, but yet referencing a tribe local to that area. So I thought it interesting and made mention of it.

My current inclination concerning accurate native historical accounts and legends of sasquatch is that the Colville area, with it's historically associated tribes would be the BEST source.

But I won't mind the discourse on that Halpin material in the meantime.
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Old 5th March 2008, 06:21 AM   #205
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By the way, manofthesea, your sig line is not from any speech by Chief Seattle. I worked with Dial Books, the company that published a children's book purporting to contain a speech by Seattle in which the line appears; we discovered that though the writer of the book thought the speech was genuine, in fact it was a modern white fabrication by Ted Perry, written in 1972 for a TV show about ecology (Perry said he originally didn't even know who Chief Seattle was, but found his name in a list and thought it had a nice ring to it). The text of the original 1854 speech was not written out, only a summary of the general sentiments. Thirty years later, a white man, Henry A. Smith, who did not speak the language, published a "version" of the sentiments (using terms that Seattle would not have known). Some of this became incorporated in the speech as "re-created" by Professor Perry. The publisher knew this (and made some sort of settlement with Mr. Perry, iirc) but kept quiet about it until some years ago when Bill Moyers "outed" the origin of the speech--about 1995, I think.

Last edited by Spektator; 5th March 2008 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 5th March 2008, 08:41 AM   #206
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I Suggest Plagiarism

Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
By the way, manofthesea, your sig line is not from any speech by Chief Seattle. I worked with Dial Books, the company that published a children's book purporting to contain a speech by Seattle in which the line appears; we discovered that though the writer of the book thought the speech was genuine, in fact it was a modern white fabrication by Ted Perry, written in 1972 for a TV show about ecology (Perry said he originally didn't even know who Chief Seattle was, but found his name in a list and thought it had a nice ring to it). The text of the original 1854 speech was not written out, only a summary of the general sentiments. Thirty years later, a white man, Henry A. Smith, who did not speak the language, published a "version" of the sentiments (using terms that Seattle would not have known). Some of this became incorporated in the speech as "re-created" by Professor Perry. The publisher knew this (and made some sort of settlement with Mr. Perry, iirc) but kept quiet about it until some years ago when Bill Moyers "outed" the origin of the speech--about 1995, I think.

I can only say that Dial Books has been the victim of plagiarism. The text I used is from "Indian Oratory" published by University of Oklahoma Press. Printed in 1971.

Dr. Henry Smith, completely fluent in Salishan language, transcribed this speech as it happened. The references can be found at Seattle Historical Society.
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Old 5th March 2008, 09:46 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
However, I was not trying to establish the existance of bigfoot by means of Cooper's writings.
.
You certainly seemed to be equating manitou with bigfoot. Like when you said:

Originally Posted by manofthesea
You've been into bigfoot "for a little more than three decades", you must be aware of James Fenimore Cooper's little 'poem' about manitou.
.
Cooper wrote a song/poem about manitou not bigfoot. You made the bigfoot-manitou association.

And then you said:

Originally Posted by manofthesea
As far as 'manitou', and the poem I referenced (See my signature at BFF), the manitou is noted as having a "long whoop, long cry, and a yell" in the forest. That is a physical description matching bigfoot. Simple.
.
The explanation for that "long whoop, long cry, and a yell" was simply and clearly pointed out by Cooper himself:

Quote:
"...was the well-known and terrific war- whoop, which burst from the lips of the young warrior, like a combination of all the frightful sounds of battle."
.
Again, you made the manitou-bigfoot association.

Quote:
The term manitou was in a list, since denied, that contained the term manitou as referring to bigfoot.
.

As was pointed out, it's a list created by bigfooters to try to associate names with anything that might remotely resemble bigfoot. Large, bipedal and humanoid? Hey, those are the main requirements. Claws and fangs? Sure, why not. Giant otter? Close enough.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "since denied". Denied by who? It was simply and clearly pointed out to you by kitakaze that:

Quote:
Regarding the list I cited as compiled by Henry Franzoni, Jeff Glickman, and Kyle Mizokami:

One of the authors (I will not say which due to a request for anonymity) has contacted me and informed me that the list "Native American Names for Bigfoot" it is not now nor ever was representational of his views. Furthermore, the document is apparently not an original and was compiled from numerous sources by an unknown party
.
.
You
obviously associated manitou with bigfoot, even when presented with evidence to the contrary from many sources. Clinging to a belief will not make it come true.

Here again is that association that you, as a bigfoot romantic see:

Originally Posted by manofthesea
Having a collection of books myself, I decided to look at a few. Whadayaknow, I found a cool poem in the first American literature book that I checked. Above all, it contained the whoop and yell, somewhat associated with modern bigfoot. Not to mention the location of this fictional incident, but yet referencing a tribe local to that area. So I thought it interesting and made mention of it.
.
You thought it interesting? No, in your romanticism, you thought it confirmed that manitou = bigfoot. You made that perfectly clear when you only quoted a portion of the books' poem/song, and then conveniently left off the actual explanation (provided by the author himself in the very same book). The behavior you exhibited, and 'facts' you presented speaks volumes about your investigative abilities, attention to detail, and desire to sensationalize.

Quote:
My current inclination concerning accurate native historical accounts and legends of sasquatch is that the Colville area, with it's historically associated tribes would be the BEST source.
.
Just how does one determine an accurate native historical account of bigfoot?

RayG
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Old 5th March 2008, 09:51 AM   #208
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Quote:
the manitou is noted as having a "long whoop, long cry, and a yell" in the forest. That is a physical description matching bigfoot.
Except that we have no evidence that bigfoot makes any such sounds...
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Old 5th March 2008, 10:47 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by RayG View Post
.
You certainly seemed to be equating manitou with bigfoot. Like when you said:


.
Cooper wrote a song/poem about manitou not bigfoot. You made the bigfoot-manitou association.

And then you said:


.
The explanation for that "long whoop, long cry, and a yell" was simply and clearly pointed out by Cooper himself:

.
Again, you made the manitou-bigfoot association.

.

As was pointed out, it's a list created by bigfooters to try to associate names with anything that might remotely resemble bigfoot. Large, bipedal and humanoid? Hey, those are the main requirements. Claws and fangs? Sure, why not. Giant otter? Close enough.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "since denied". Denied by who? It was simply and clearly pointed out to you by kitakaze that:

.
.
You
obviously associated manitou with bigfoot, even when presented with evidence to the contrary from many sources. Clinging to a belief will not make it come true.

Here again is that association that you, as a bigfoot romantic see:


.
You thought it interesting? No, in your romanticism, you thought it confirmed that manitou = bigfoot. You made that perfectly clear when you only quoted a portion of the books' poem/song, and then conveniently left off the actual explanation (provided by the author himself in the very same book). The behavior you exhibited, and 'facts' you presented speaks volumes about your investigative abilities, attention to detail, and desire to sensationalize.

.
Just how does one determine an accurate native historical account of bigfoot?

RayG
I have no personal regard for the accuracy of myths or stories from the eastern US. The OP had a list showing manitou as a possible correlation to bigfoot. A casual look through the first book that I grabbed contained this. Also note, I've never seen James Fenimore Cooper's account mentioned so I brought it up. I thought it interesting also that it was from the early 1800's.

But try to focus, Spektator said that he was personally aware of the author of one of my quotes.
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Old 5th March 2008, 10:55 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
I can only say that Dial Books has been the victim of plagiarism. The text I used is from "Indian Oratory" published by University of Oklahoma Press. Printed in 1971.

Dr. Henry Smith, completely fluent in Salishan language, transcribed this speech as it happened. The references can be found at Seattle Historical Society.
His fluency is contended in this article (my bold):

Quote:
"The first version of the speech has been traced to a transcription made by Dr. Henry Smith more than 30 years after the actual event. Smith's is the original on which all others are based; it appeared in the October 29, 1887, issue of the Seattle Sunday Star under the title "Scraps From A Diary." ...
Smith concludes with the comment, "The above is but a fragment of his speech, and lacks all the charm lent by the grace and earnestness of the sable old orator, and the occasion." Dr. Smith's diary cannot be found, so it is impossible to know just how closely his notes followed what Sealth had to say....
it is safe to say that what Smith heard was a translation. It was probably made from Sealth's Lushotseed language into the Chinook jargon and then into English, "
And another:
Quote:
Historians agree that the speech was translated into Chinook jargon "on the spot" since Seattle did not speak English. The first print version of what he said was not published until October 29, 1887, in a Seattle Sunday Star column by Dr. Henry A. Smith, a witness to the 1854 speech who had reconstructed and translated the speech from his notes.
On what do you base his fluency in the original tongue, given the above accounts?
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Old 5th March 2008, 11:05 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
His fluency is contended in this article (my bold):


And another:

On what do you base his fluency in the original tongue, given the above accounts?
From the statement in the book that says Smith mastered the Duwamish language in about two years.

The issue at hand is Spektator's claim that the words used in my signature was written in 1972 for a children's show.
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Old 5th March 2008, 11:09 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
From the statement in the book that says Smith mastered the Duwamish language in about two years.

The issue at hand is Spektator's claim that the words used in my signature was written in 1972 for a children's show.
Excuse me, I made no such claim. The words appear in a children's book, not a TV show. A modern version of the Seattle speech was written by Professor Perry for a film on ecology; from the film text, the bogus speech was used in a poster; from the poster, a children's book author/illustrator (who believed the text was authentic) created a children's book.

And I did say the words originally came from Henry Smith's version of Seattle's address; however, Smith was not rendering a verbatim translation of Seattle's remarks.

Last edited by Spektator; 5th March 2008 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 5th March 2008, 11:11 AM   #213
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Here's the Issue

Spektator claimed the words used in my signature were written by Professor Perry for a children's show in 1972. And he had personal dealings with the publisher.

I stated they were from a book, Indian Oratory, printed in 1971.
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Old 5th March 2008, 11:20 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
By the way, manofthesea, your sig line is not from any speech by Chief Seattle. I worked with Dial Books, the company that published a children's book purporting to contain a speech by Seattle in which the line appears; we discovered that though the writer of the book thought the speech was genuine, in fact it was a modern white fabrication by Ted Perry, written in 1972 for a TV show about ecology (Perry said he originally didn't even know who Chief Seattle was, but found his name in a list and thought it had a nice ring to it). The text of the original 1854 speech was not written out, only a summary of the general sentiments. Thirty years later, a white man, Henry A. Smith, who did not speak the language, published a "version" of the sentiments (using terms that Seattle would not have known). Some of this became incorporated in the speech as "re-created" by Professor Perry. The publisher knew this (and made some sort of settlement with Mr. Perry, iirc) but kept quiet about it until some years ago when Bill Moyers "outed" the origin of the speech--about 1995, I think.

Here is the post. Written in a book, for a show.

It also says "Henry A. Smith, who did not speak the language"
The book that I have states that Smith was personally at the location when the speech was delivered. Note, the speech was spoken in native Duwamish and also translated for deliverance to Stevens.

But the point remains, the originator of my quote has been correctly noted by me.
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Old 5th March 2008, 11:28 AM   #215
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Let's just call it creative liberty and move on. I'm interested in hearing about this Halpin figure.
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Old 5th March 2008, 11:53 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
I have no personal regard for the accuracy of myths or stories from the eastern US.
You've demonstrated no regard for the accuracy of myths or stories from anywhere.

Quote:
The OP had a list showing manitou as a possible correlation to bigfoot. A casual look through the first book that I grabbed contained this.
Not so fast grasshopper. The book contains no correlation between bigfoot and manitou, you provided that correlation. Wishful-thinking perhaps?

Quote:
Also note, I've never seen James Fenimore Cooper's account mentioned so I brought it up.
It's likely never been brought up because YOU are the one seeing a correlation, when there is none.

Quote:
But try to focus, Spektator said that he was personally aware of the author of one of my quotes.
Pay attention. Spektator said, "your sig line is not from any speech by Chief Seattle", regardless of who claims to have quoted him.

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Old 5th March 2008, 12:01 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by RayG View Post
You've demonstrated no regard for the accuracy of myths or stories from anywhere.

Not so fast grasshopper. The book contains no correlation between bigfoot and manitou, you provided that correlation. Wishful-thinking perhaps?

It's likely never been brought up because YOU are the one seeing a correlation, when there is none.

Pay attention. Spektator said, "your sig line is not from any speech by Chief Seattle", regardless of who claims to have quoted him.

RayG
You're starting to appear as if you may have a manitou on your back.

But anyway, his post made a lot of suppositions. I've addressed the main ones. The quote is from Indian Oratory, U. of Oklahoma Press, 1971. I've had no previous reason to doubt their credibility.
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Old 5th March 2008, 12:09 PM   #218
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Bump

Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
Why don't you submit a "kitakaze's revised list of native american names for bigfoot" and we'll go from there.

.
I'll try again. (focus)
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Old 5th March 2008, 12:40 PM   #219
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
Here is the post. Written in a book, for a show.

It also says "Henry A. Smith, who did not speak the language"
The book that I have states that Smith was personally at the location when the speech was delivered. Note, the speech was spoken in native Duwamish and also translated for deliverance to Stevens.

But the point remains, the originator of my quote has been correctly noted by me.
Soooo. You claim the book states that Dr.Smith "mastered the Duwamish language in about two years" AND then you state that the speech was translated (twice) before it got to his English ears.

Which is it?

Did he speak the language as you claim, pertinently, at the time of his "transcript" of the speech or not?

The point of MY posts was that Dr.Smith's quote is seen as a misrepresentation of what was said, BECAUSE the passage was translated (twice) for him AND he did not understand the language at the time.

Therefore, besides the backstory, Spektator's point that the quote you are using is inaccurate seems to be upheld.
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Old 5th March 2008, 12:41 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
I worked with Dial Books

Can I assume this to be true?
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Old 5th March 2008, 12:46 PM   #221
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
Soooo. You claim the book states that Dr.Smith "mastered the Duwamish language in about two years" AND then you state that the speech was translated (twice) before it got to his English ears.

Which is it?

Did he speak the language as you claim, pertinently, at the time of his "transcript" of the speech or not?

The point of MY posts was that Dr.Smith's quote is seen as a misrepresentation of what was said, BECAUSE the passage was translated (twice) for him AND he did not understand the language at the time.

Therefore, besides the backstory, Spektator's point that the quote you are using is inaccurate seems to be upheld.

You've said it yourself. It was translated at the time of the speech. And he also took the time to learn the native language.

Spektator claimed the originator of my signature line was Professor Perry in 1972.
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Old 5th March 2008, 12:49 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Spektator View Post
we discovered that though the writer of the book thought the speech was genuine, in fact it was a modern white fabrication by Ted Perry, written in 1972 for a TV show

.
Do we need a translator?
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Old 5th March 2008, 12:53 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
Why don't you submit a "kitakaze's revised list of native american names for bigfoot" and we'll go from there.

I'll try again. (focus)
If you're looking for the name of a bigfoot critter based on evidence and not stories or superstitions, there are none.

Pretty short list.

RayG
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Old 5th March 2008, 12:59 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
You're starting to appear as if you may have a manitou on your back.
Nope, no superstitious spirit there.

Originally Posted by EHocking
...Spektator's point that the quote you are using is inaccurate seems to be upheld.
And everyone except manofthesea seems to get it.

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Old 5th March 2008, 12:59 PM   #225
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
You've said it yourself. It was translated at the time of the speech.
The point being made is that Dr.Smith's transcipt is probably not an accurate one since a. he did not speak the language b. it went through 2 translations before it got to him and c. he "transcribed" it in a form ("flowery Victorian English is the common description) that was not the agreed style of speech of Chief Seatlh.
[/quote]And he also took the time to learn the native language. [/quote]But not at the time of the speech, therefore his the accuracy of his "transcript" is doubtful. Exactly what Spektator claimed.
Quote:
Spektator claimed the originator of my signature line was Professor Perry in 1972.
He stated that "your sig line is not from any speech by Chief Seattle".
Given the background information at hand, I'd say Spektator has a better stake on the accuracy of the quote that you do.
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:03 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
The point being made is that Dr.Smith's transcipt is probably not an accurate one since a. he did not speak the language b. it went through 2 translations before it got to him and c. he "transcribed" it in a form ("flowery Victorian English is the common description) that was not the agreed style of speech of Chief Seatlh.
And he also took the time to learn the native language. [/quote]But not at the time of the speech, therefore his the accuracy of his "transcript" is doubtful. Exactly what Spektator claimed.

He stated that "your sig line is not from any speech by Chief Seattle".
Given the background information at hand, I'd say Spektator has a better stake on the accuracy of the quote that you do.[/quote]

Flowery Victorian English must have been Steven's native tongue then. Shouldn't there be a disclaimer on material copied and written in non-modern vernacular?

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Old 5th March 2008, 01:07 PM   #227
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I state that University of Oklahoma Press is far more credible than Dial Books, obviously the victim of plagiarism.
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:10 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
You've said it yourself. It was translated at the time of the speech.
Exactly. It was translated (twice) from a 2 languages that he did not understand. Therefore the statements made in my quotes are quite valid, and that is, that the quote is not an more probably that not, an inaccurate "transcript" of the actual words spoken by Chief Seatlh.
Quote:
And he also took the time to learn the native language.
But did not speak the language at the time of the speach, therefore had not idea of the accuracy of the translations. As neither do you.
Quote:
Spektator claimed the originator of my signature line was Professor Perry in 1972.
He claimed that the words were not actually spoken by Chief Seatlh, and given the evidence, is most probably correct.
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:12 PM   #229
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To base an argument on an obviously plagiarized children's book is ridiculous, but carry on.
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:15 PM   #230
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Why don't we wait for Spektator to respond? He presented the argument. He stated that he worked with Dial Books. Firstly, I'd like this claim addressed.
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:17 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
To base an argument on an obviously plagiarized children's book is ridiculous, but carry on.
I do not quote from children's books, nor from Dial publications.

At least argue the content of my posts.

Can you refute any of the points made that, after 2 translations of the words in languages unknown to him (you cannot show that he understood either at the time of the speech, else why the need for translators?), and apparently a 30 year hiatus between "hearing the speech and transcribing his notes, that most historians are of the opinion that the quote that you use are most likely not an accurate rendering of the words actually uttered by Chief Seatlh.
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:22 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
I do not quote from children's books, nor from Dial publications.

At least argue the content of my posts.

Can you refute any of the points made that, after 2 translations of the words in languages unknown to him (you cannot show that he understood either at the time of the speech, else why the need for translators?), and apparently a 30 year hiatus between "hearing the speech and transcribing his notes, that most historians are of the opinion that the quote that you use are most likely not an accurate rendering of the words actually uttered by Chief Seatlh.
It simply shows that 30 years later it was required to have an accurate transcription historically noted. A translation is a translation.
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:24 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
Why don't we wait for Spektator to respond? He presented the argument. He stated that he worked with Dial Books. Firstly, I'd like this claim addressed.
I'll just bump this.
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:26 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
It simply shows that 30 years later it was required to have an accurate transcription historically noted. A translation is a translation.
The point being argued is the accuracy of the translations as well as his interpretation of those translations into his notes AND his probable embellshment of his notes 30 years later into a "transcript".

All room for error, mistranslation and poetic interpretation.

Therefore, Spektator's claim that Smiths transcript (and subsequent rewrites 100 years on) is not an accurate depiction of events holds quite a lot of water.
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:28 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
I'm interested in hearing about this Halpin figure.
What did you find out about Marjorie Halpin after doing your Internet and library searches?
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:34 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
What did you find out about Marjorie Halpin after doing your Internet and library searches?
William, can I ask you to go back to the PGF? Your last posts to me stated that I had a "broken brain" and that we should never address each other.

I am waiting for kitakaze's proposed synopsis of the material that you presented. I've wasted none of my energy inquiring about topics that you've presented.

Thank you and goodbye.
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:37 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
The point being argued is the accuracy of the translations as well as his interpretation of those translations into his notes AND his probable embellshment of his notes 30 years later into a "transcript".

All room for error, mistranslation and poetic interpretation.

Therefore, Spektator's claim that Smiths transcript (and subsequent rewrites 100 years on) is not an accurate depiction of events holds quite a lot of water.
You can apply that argument to any material that has ever been translated.

You (and Ray) are reducing critical skepticism to the point of general contrarianism.
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:44 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by manofthesea View Post
William, can I ask you to go back to the PGF?
I chocolate Wednesday finger manager it kiwi.

Quote:
Your last posts to me stated that I had a "broken brain" and that we should never address each other.
Not exactly. I suggested that you not ask me questions. I didn't say I wouldn't ask you questions.

Quote:
I am waiting for kitakaze's proposed synopsis of the material that you presented. I've wasted none of my energy inquiring about topics that you've presented. Thank you and goodbye.
You have been outed as a troll.
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Old 5th March 2008, 01:50 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I chocolate Wednesday finger manager it kiwi.



Not exactly. I suggested that you not ask me questions. I didn't say I wouldn't ask you questions.



You have been outed as a troll.
Define troll. If you mean someone who has defended his presumptions for nearly 500 posts and now refuses to search a topic from someone (Halpin) that I've never heard of, then you're probably correct.

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Old 5th March 2008, 02:01 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by EHocking View Post
he "transcribed" it in a form ("flowery Victorian English is the common description) that was not the agreed style of speech of Chief Seatlh.

.
Would it have been better to have it transcribed to 'hillbilly' then? Chief Sealth spoke Salish, it was transcribed in a formal literary prose. Kinda like the constitution and other important writings.
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