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Old 5th October 2017, 07:10 AM   #241
Darat
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
The drugs generally reduce sensitivity. On medication I feel very little emotion, as well as not feeling much of a psychic nature.
That means the drugs are working at stopping your delusions that you have psychic powers.

Think it through:

Scorpion: I have suffered for many years from delusions
Scorpion: At the same time I believe I have psychic abilities
Scorpion: When I take drugs that are meant to stop or reduce my delusions I no longer have the psychic powers.

Perhaps the first 2 are one and the same.
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Old 5th October 2017, 09:41 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by kali1137 View Post
There is always a little part of me that thinks they can see a little glimmer of truth. I usually allow people to have magical thinking if its a harmless belief. In this case, you have a person who is actively seeking out other religions and attacking them. That is when it angers me and I try to debate.
In case you have not noticed Islam is attacking us. I read the Quran after 9/11/01 and soon found it was not the words of God. If God wrote the Quran he is a sadistic monster who separates mankind into believers, and unbelievers in Muhammad and sets them at war. it says the curse of God is on unbelievers and they will burn in eternal hellfire.

We are currently at war with the Islamic state who behave like savages and want to take over the west.

I am doing my bit on various forums trying to undermine them, because everything I have learned from studying the occult tells me Islam is evil lies.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 5th October 2017, 09:55 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That means the drugs are working at stopping your delusions that you have psychic powers.

Think it through:

Scorpion: I have suffered for many years from delusions
Scorpion: At the same time I believe I have psychic abilities
Scorpion: When I take drugs that are meant to stop or reduce my delusions I no longer have the psychic powers.

Perhaps the first 2 are one and the same.
It is not my thinking mind that is affected by the drugs but my nervous system. I was ok without drugs for twenty years. But my nerves got bad and I was hooked on drink. So I took the drugs to get off alcohol

I do not think any differently about my experiences on the drug than I did off the drug.

I do not regard a belief in the spirit world as a delusion, its a conclusion based on the the sum of my experiences.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:26 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I am doing my bit on various forums trying to undermine them, because everything I have learned from studying the occult tells me Islam is evil lies.
So if someone decided, based on their study of the occult and their subjective experiences, that Christianity was evil lies and that they needed to undermine it on internet forums you would be OK with that, I presume? They would, after all, have exactly the same objective evidence and consequent justification as you do, i.e. none whatever.

And before you object that there is objective evidence of people committing atrocities in the name of Islam: the list of atrocities committed in the name of Christianity is also very long indeed.

That's the trouble with beliefs based solely on subjective experiences: if someone decides theirs justify atrocities, how do you persuade them otherwise?
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:41 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
So if someone decided, based on their study of the occult and their subjective experiences, that Christianity was evil lies and that they needed to undermine it on internet forums you would be OK with that, I presume? They would, after all, have exactly the same objective evidence and consequent justification as you do, i.e. none whatever.

And before you object that there is objective evidence of people committing atrocities in the name of Islam: the list of atrocities committed in the name of Christianity is also very long indeed.

That's the trouble with beliefs based solely on subjective experiences: if someone decides theirs justify atrocities, how do you persuade them otherwise?
There are plenty of people trying to trash Christianity especially on twitter.
I don't feel the need to argue with them either way. The bible has been subjected to extensive literary criticism over hundreds of years, and its not my bag to join that debate. I see it as the time to subject the Quran to the same kind of criticism. Some Muslims might see the light of reason.

I have written pages on the subject and I started a thread , ' What the quran really says' on the religion and philosophy forum when I first joined. But the consensus of opinion was that it obviously is not Gods word, and the thread died of lack of interest in the details.

I pointed out many things obviously wrong with the Quran including that it contains two verses stolen from the infancy gospels of Jesus. My question to Muslims is what are quotes from a book of fables doing in the Quran.

But that's all another story. I just resurrected my thread.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Last edited by Scorpion; 5th October 2017 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 5th October 2017, 11:10 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
There are plenty of people trying to trash Christianity especially on twitter.
I don't feel the need to argue with them either way. The bible has been subjected to extensive literary criticism over hundreds of years, and its not my bag to join that debate. I see it as the time to subject the Quran to the same kind of criticism. Some Muslims might see the light of reason.
So when criticisms are levelled at Christianity you feel justified in ignoring them, but you still think Muslims should pay attention to your criticisms of Islam?
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Old 5th October 2017, 11:23 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
So when criticisms are levelled at Christianity you feel justified in ignoring them, but you still think Muslims should pay attention to your criticisms of Islam?
I am not in the business of either justifying or condemning the new testament.
There are plenty of people doing that, but until 9/11 there was very little study of the Quran in the west. Since then there are a lot of people pouring over its texts, and some silly white women have converted to Islam after reading it.

I wish I could have got to them before they committed themselves to Islam, I might have been able to stop their conversion by pointing out some of the flaws in that book. I live in hope that I can persuade some more people to see the Quran is not Gods word, as I did with one Muslim who argued with me for a couple of years and eventually said he thought I was just a hate monger, but he finally realized I was telling the truth.
I do think all the criticism of the Quran is having an effect on some Muslims, and there are a number of ex Muslims telling of their rejection of Islam on twitter. I am just doing my bit.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 5th October 2017, 11:35 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I am not in the business of either justifying or condemning the new testament.
Yet you expect Muslims to respond to your condemnation of their testament. Why?

Quote:
There are plenty of people doing that, but until 9/11 there was very little study of the Quran in the west.
Absolute nonsense. Your ignorance is astounding.

Quote:
I wish I could have got to them before they committed themselves to Islam, I might have been able to stop their conversion by pointing out some of the flaws in that book.
Your arrogance is even more astounding.

Do you think that someone pointing out the flaws in the Bible would have stopped you committing to Christianity? Because there are plenty of them.

Are you going to try to convince the Mormons of the flaws in their book next? That contains factual assertions that are provably false, yet Mormons continue to believe no matter how many times you point them out. Go figure.
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Old 5th October 2017, 11:42 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Your ignorance is astounding.

Your arrogance is even more astounding.
I have astounded you? Now we are getting somewhere.

I have resurrected my thread on the Quran, its on the religion and philosophy forum.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 5th October 2017, 11:43 AM   #250
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Scorpion, you are not winning any logical arguments here. You have already told us you were diagnosed with schizophrenia. I recommend you find new physicians and refrain from posting here.

You are not coming across as a psychosis survivor.
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Old 5th October 2017, 11:49 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
Scorpion, you are not winning any logical arguments here. You have already told us you were diagnosed with schizophrenia. I recommend you find new physicians and refrain from posting here.

You are not coming across as a psychosis survivor.
Do you honestly think you are going to put me in my place with your mealy mouthed comment ? I was diagnosed with schizophrenia fifty years ago and went through hell
I survived and walked away from the psychiatric view, which is like yours.
I found there is a psychic truth, and nobody can take that away from me now.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 5th October 2017, 01:00 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
In case you have not noticed Islam is attacking us. I read the Quran after 9/11/01 and soon found it was not the words of God. If God wrote the Quran he is a sadistic monster who separates mankind into believers, and unbelievers in Muhammad and sets them at war. it says the curse of God is on unbelievers and they will burn in eternal hellfire.

We are currently at war with the Islamic state who behave like savages and want to take over the west.

I am doing my bit on various forums trying to undermine them, because everything I have learned from studying the occult tells me Islam is evil lies.
I am Native American. Care to educate yourself on what chrisitianity did and tried to do to my people? You can start with the Indian Schools. So don't try and go toe to toe with me on which religions are evil and killed the most people. I have history, you have occult and psychics.
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Old 5th October 2017, 01:26 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by kali1137 View Post
I am Native American. Care to educate yourself on what chrisitianity did and tried to do to my people? You can start with the Indian Schools. So don't try and go toe to toe with me on which religions are evil and killed the most people. I have history, you have occult and psychics.
And I have the news, which is regularly filled with new Islamic attacks.
You don't hear about Christians murdering innocent people in London and Paris and other places in the modern world. What people who called themselves Christians in the past did is irrelevant today.

In any case Jesus said things like, love your neighbours, and forgive them that persecute you. If everyone that called themselves Christians had followed Jesus teachings they would not have done the things you speak of.

But Muhammad said things like, Strike the necks of unbelievers (with a sword) and cut off their finger tips also. Which is one reason Muslims behead people.
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy

Last edited by Scorpion; 5th October 2017 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 5th October 2017, 01:43 PM   #254
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We do, in fact, hear about christians murdering innocent people - bombing womens clinics, killing abortion doctors. There are plenty of other examples that I don't care to look for. And please, the bible is full of anger and violence too. You are yet another cherry picker of what you like out of it. But since you just felt the need to spit on my history there is no further reason to try any discussions with you. I have zero respect for you or your "reasons".
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Old 5th October 2017, 01:44 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
.......You don't hear about Christians murdering innocent people in London and Paris and other places in the modern world.........
Yeah you do. What a silly statement. You could start with the IRA, the UDF, the UDA, the UVF, the INLA and so on. There's the Army of God and the Klu Klux Klan in the USA, plus dozens if not more of individuals involved with mass killings, such as Timothy McVeigh.
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Old 5th October 2017, 03:32 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by kali1137 View Post
There is always a little part of me that thinks they can see a little glimmer of truth.

I used to think that way too, for many years. I've reached another conclusion though.

For people like us (Atheists and skeptics), the paranormal is obvious B.S. But how do you convince someone of the obvious? That's a question that has got me beat.

The mind of the 'believer' somehow works differently than ours. And it's very difficult for us to truly and fully understand what's going on inside that mind. At least for me anyway it is very difficult.

Remember that we're having discussions with people who are unable (or refuse) to acknowledge the obvious. They are people who are unable (or refuse) to acknowledge reality. It seems to me to be a somewhat less than ideal starting point for any sort of productive discourse... (IMO)
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Old 5th October 2017, 03:39 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Yeah you do. What a silly statement. You could start with the IRA, the UDF, the UDA, the UVF, the INLA and so on. There's the Army of God and the Klu Klux Klan in the USA, plus dozens if not more of individuals involved with mass killings, such as Timothy McVeigh.
I understand that in some countries they are still executing 'witches' too! And I don't think that it's the Atheists who are doing it...
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Old 5th October 2017, 03:47 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
They are people who are unable (or refuse) to acknowledge reality.
There you go again, harping on about reality, when you have absolutely no idea what that is.

Everything we experience is nothing but an illusion created out of pure energy.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 5th October 2017, 10:38 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I found there is a psychic truth, and nobody can take that away from me now.
If you're not prepared to even consider the possibility that you might be mistaken you are definitely on the wrong forum.
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Old 5th October 2017, 11:07 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Why did you pick out that particular sentence of abaddon's post to respond to and ignore the rest?

I think I understand why abaddon pointed that out, regardless of what Pearsal says, but even if you did not it seems an odd point to focus on given what else he has uncovered about the person whose book you are quoting, apparently in the belief that it is a reliable source of such information.

How would you now rate the reliability of Pearsal, in the light of what abaddon has discovered about him? Do you now think it might have been a good idea to check the guy's bona fides yourself before quoting him on a sceptical forum? Or even before buying and reading his book, assuming that is how you discovered what it says?

I'll assume 'not gender specific' was about the donor hooker case.
Yes, transplant tissues are not gender specific. However IMO gender would not matter anyway in the hooker donor story. Anyway, if the story were true I think sex drive/experience/history could apply to either gender in a recipient...the whole idea being the heart remembers.

Re Pearsall's sketchy bio, I didnt address it because the question ultimately boils down to whether or not he made it all up. While Abaddon's notes do not flatter Pearsall, they don't prove his stories are fiction. Confidentially, Abaddon is so awesomely all knowing and omnipotent that I dont dare look him in the eye. Sometimes.
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Old 5th October 2017, 11:30 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
Re Pearsall's sketchy bio, I didnt address it because the question ultimately boils down to whether or not he made it all up. While Abaddon's notes do not flatter Pearsall, they don't prove his stories are fiction.
No, the question is how reliable he is as a source of information. He doesn't need to have made it all up to have exaggerated, cherry picked or failed to properly verify the stories he is reporting. What abaddon has discovered about him makes it virtually certain he is the sort of writer who is likely to have done all of these things.

Do you now think you should at least have considered this possibility and checked him out a little before quoting him on a sceptic forum? I'm trying to determine if you're learning anything at all from your participation in this forum, mostly because I'm hoping you're the rare individual who is actually willing and able to do so.

Quote:
Confidentially, Abaddon is so awesomely all knowing and omnipotent that I dont dare look him in the eye. Sometimes.
I know what you mean.
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:06 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
In case you have not noticed Islam is attacking us. I read the Quran after 9/11/01 and soon found it was not the words of God. If God wrote the Quran he is a sadistic monster who separates mankind into believers, and unbelievers in Muhammad and sets them at war. it says the curse of God is on unbelievers and they will burn in eternal hellfire.

We are currently at war with the Islamic state who behave like savages and want to take over the west.

I am doing my bit on various forums trying to undermine them, because everything I have learned from studying the occult tells me Islam is evil lies.
Should people not murder and steal?
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:08 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Do you honestly think you are going to put me in my place with your mealy mouthed comment ? I was diagnosed with schizophrenia fifty years ago and went through hell
I survived and walked away from the psychiatric view, which is like yours.
I found there is a psychic truth, and nobody can take that away from me now.
You mean no one can take your psychic truth away apart from when you take drugs to control your delusions.
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:11 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
There you go again, harping on about reality, when you have absolutely no idea what that is.

Everything we experience is nothing but an illusion created out of pure energy.
If that was true how would it be an illusion? A chair is chair whether made from wood, or plastic, or an "illusion created out of pure energy ".
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:15 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
No, the question is how reliable he is as a source of information. He doesn't need to have made it all up to have exaggerated, cherry picked or failed to properly verify the stories he is reporting. What abaddon has discovered about him makes it virtually certain he is the sort of writer who is likely to have done all of these things.

Do you now think you should at least have considered this possibility and checked him out a little before quoting him on a sceptic forum? I'm trying to determine if you're learning anything at all from your participation in this forum, mostly because I'm hoping you're the rare individual who is actually willing and able to do so.


True, good point which I'll keep in mind, thanks
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Old 7th October 2017, 05:19 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
If that was true how would it be an illusion? A chair is chair whether made from wood, or plastic, or an "illusion created out of pure energy ".
Everything started as pure energy, then atoms formed. Everything we see and touch including chairs and even ourselves is nothing but atoms with a different number of protons and neutrons and electrons. We are nothing but electrical particles and the greater part of an atom is empty space.

Therefore the entire universe and everything in it can be regarded as an illusion.

It may be a convincing illusion. If you bang your head on a wall it will appear to be painful. Even though what is really happening is electrical signals are travelling to your brain. But if the nuclear forces were weaker we could walk thorough walls.

Some Yogis can overcome pain signals with their minds, and I can overcome schizophrenia with mine.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 7th October 2017, 05:32 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
If you're not prepared to even consider the possibility that you might be mistaken you are definitely on the wrong forum.
I have not been in touch with spiritualists for years, and I sometimes wonder if what I believe is wrong. But then I remember all my experiences and I am relatively sure I am not.

Unlike all of you on this forum who are mostly atheists sure you are right about everything. It seems to me the boot is on the other foot and its all you people whos minds are closed.

If you will kindly excuse my arrogance, I will continue to post on this forum.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 7th October 2017, 05:49 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I have not been in touch with spiritualists for years, and I sometimes wonder if what I believe is wrong. But then I remember all my experiences and I am relatively sure I am not.
But your experiences are not a reliable guide, for the reasons which have been explained.

Quote:
Unlike all of you on this forum who are mostly atheists sure you are right about everything. It seems to me the boot is on the other foot and its all you people whos minds are closed.
Our minds are open to the things they should be open to, i.e. objective evidence and logical argument. It's not our fault that you have neither. We are not going to lower our standards for you.

Quote:
If you will kindly excuse my arrogance, I will continue to post on this forum
You are of course welcome to do so. I'm just pointing out that you will not get the response you seem to be looking for here.
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Old 7th October 2017, 11:34 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
Everything started as pure energy, then atoms formed. Everything we see and touch including chairs and even ourselves is nothing but atoms with a different number of protons and neutrons and electrons. We are nothing but electrical particles and the greater part of an atom is empty space.

Therefore the entire universe and everything in it can be regarded as an illusion.

It may be a convincing illusion. If you bang your head on a wall it will appear to be painful. Even though what is really happening is electrical signals are travelling to your brain. But if the nuclear forces were weaker we could walk thorough walls.

Some Yogis can overcome pain signals with their minds, and I can overcome schizophrenia with mine.
This is, I'm afraid, pop science. Even I, as a non-scientist, know this.
What you are describing is what happens at a sub-atomic, quantum level. The rules are different at an atomic level, and we do not function at a quantum level.
Even with your own interpretation, it still does not follow that the universe is an illusion. The particles that comprise atoms are quite real.
I would also argue with your distinction between pain as something real, and electrical impulses, which are illusory. Our nervous systems are electro-magnetic. Everything we think and feel is electrical. We just call some stimuli pain, and others pleasure (and some call them both). It's not an illusion, you're just playing with semantics.
Your last sentence is so wrong I don't even know how to begin with it.
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Old 7th October 2017, 11:46 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
The particles that comprise atoms are quite real.
I believe professor Hawking said there is a formula to show that all matter can be converted back into energy. So the particles that compose atoms are not real.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:00 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I believe professor Hawking said there is a formula to show that all matter can be converted back into energy.
Yes, it's: e=m c squared

Guy called Einstein worked it out over a century ago.

Matter can be converted into energy, and vice versa.

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So the particles that compose atoms are not real.
Huh?

Energy is just as real as matter. Both are made of particles.
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:22 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Yes, it's: e=m c squared

Guy called Einstein worked it out over a century ago.

Matter can be converted into energy, and vice versa.


Huh?

Energy is just as real as matter. Both are made of particles.
I did not think energy is made of particles. But I am not a physicist, so I do not know.
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:28 PM   #273
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“If quantum mechanics hasn’t profoundly shocked you, you haven’t understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.” – Niels Bohr
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:29 PM   #274
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I did not think energy is made of particles. But I am not a physicist, so I do not know.
Well both matter and energy behave as both waves and particles. Hence the famous wave-particle duality. But waves and particles are both real.
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:31 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
“If quantum mechanics hasn’t profoundly shocked you, you haven’t understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.” – Niels Bohr
I understand what he meant by that. Do you?
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Old 7th October 2017, 12:35 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I understand what he meant by that. Do you?
I am going for some external help on this.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nothi...world-djurisic

See the above site for the following quote.

The revelation that the universe is not an assembly of physical parts, suggested by Newtonian physics, and instead comes from a holistic entanglement of immaterial energy waves stems from the work of Albert Einstein, Max Planck and Werner Heisenberg, among others
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You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God.
Sri Ramakrishna
Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy

Last edited by Scorpion; 7th October 2017 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 7th October 2017, 01:17 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by Scorpion View Post
I am going for some external help on this.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/nothi...world-djurisic

See the above site for the following quote.

The revelation that the universe is not an assembly of physical parts, suggested by Newtonian physics, and instead comes from a holistic entanglement of immaterial energy waves stems from the work of Albert Einstein, Max Planck and Werner Heisenberg, among others
I'm all in favour of self education, but be warned that wrapping your head around quantum theory is incredibly difficult even if you can follow the maths, and impossible if you can't.
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Old 8th October 2017, 02:02 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
I'm all in favour of self education, but be warned that wrapping your head around quantum theory is incredibly difficult even if you can follow the maths, and impossible if you can't.
And in any case, it just shows that the world is still real, just not in the way we thought previous to quantum theory.
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Old 8th October 2017, 05:39 AM   #279
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I am waiting for a physicist to help me out here, surely there is one on this forum.
In the meantime here is another quote from the link I posted in post 276

The atom has no physical structure, we have no physical structure, physical things really don’t have any physical structure! Atoms are made out of invisible energy, not tangible matter.

“Get over it, and accept the inarguable conclusion. The universe is immaterial-mental and spiritual” (1) – Richard Conn Henry, Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Johns Hopkins University (quote taken from “the mental universe)
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Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six.
Leo Tolstoy
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Old 8th October 2017, 06:08 AM   #280
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Help you out how?

The implications of quantum theory are indeed mind boggling, though most physicists tend to raise an eyebrow at the more fanciful interpretations of it. If you decide you want to get into it there are free online courses I can recommend, but if you're expecting someone to drop into the thread and explain it all in a couple of paragraphs in terms a non-mathematician can understand you're going to be severely disappointed.
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