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Old 10th February 2020, 06:05 AM   #2881
The Don
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
It's amazing that when a Brexiteer supports something that the other side wants such as a united Ireland or an independent Scotland, then the Brexiteer is accused of supporting it for the wrong reasons and is still insulted and attacked.

It reveals the other sides hatred of the English. They wouldn't call it racism against the English as they genuinely believe that it's impossible to be racist against the English. It's remarkable that England is unique in this regard.
English is a race now ?
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Old 10th February 2020, 09:26 AM   #2882
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
English is a race now ?
Whenever someone uses the word English as if it's a race rather than a nationality I always ask them what nationality they think Sir Lenny Henry is.
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Old 10th February 2020, 09:28 AM   #2883
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Whenever someone uses the word English as if it's a race rather than a nationality I always ask them what nationality they think Sir Lenny Henry is.
Well, an American interviewer insisted he was an English African-American.
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Old 10th February 2020, 10:10 AM   #2884
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
English is a race now ?
TBH it makes more sense than what has traditionally been called "race"
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Old 10th February 2020, 10:12 AM   #2885
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Whenever someone uses the word English as if it's a race rather than a nationality I always ask them what nationality they think Sir Lenny Henry is.
But the remainers continually accuse the leavers of being racist for opposing the EU. So France+Germany+Italy+24 other countries is a race, but England isn't?

For the record, I think it's nonsense - none of the EU countries should be referred to as races - so why do remainers continue to make this mistake at every opportunity?

Last edited by ceptimus; 10th February 2020 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 10th February 2020, 10:26 AM   #2886
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
But the remainers continually accuse the leavers of being racist for opposing the EU. So France+Germany+Italy+24 other countries is a race, but England isn't?

For the record, I think it's nonsense - none of the EU countries should be referred to as races - so why do remainers continue to make this mistake at every opportunity?
For the record you brought up the idea of Racism against the English. It is your mistake, stop trying to blame others

Leavers are accused for being racist as they put up posters of queues of brown people under the caption 'breaking point'. Also because when a leaver appeared as a vox pop they, by and large, would go on about Muslims, a thinly veiled euphemism.
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Old 10th February 2020, 10:30 AM   #2887
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
It's amazing that when a Brexiteer supports something that the other side wants such as a united Ireland or an independent Scotland, then the Brexiteer is accused of supporting it for the wrong reasons and is still insulted and attacked.

It reveals the other sides hatred of the English. They wouldn't call it racism against the English as they genuinely believe that it's impossible to be racist against the English. It's remarkable that England is unique in this regard.
A nation once again! A nation once again...

For too long, England has had to tolerate sharing a flag with the Jocks, Taffies and Paddies. Time to take back the red and white?

Bring me my spear of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!


<fx a flight path of a squadron of Spitfires flies overhead into the new dawn>

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Old 10th February 2020, 10:33 AM   #2888
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
<fx a flight path of a squadron of Spitfires flies overhead into the new dawn>
303 Squadron again?

Dave
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Old 10th February 2020, 10:46 AM   #2889
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
303 Squadron again?

Dave
I am sure ceptimus can see himself in that role. Brexit today. Who knows what tomorrow might bring? England against the world. They don't like it up'em!

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Old 10th February 2020, 11:15 AM   #2890
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
Leavers are accused for being racist as they put up posters of queues of brown people under the caption 'breaking point'. Also because when a leaver appeared as a vox pop they, by and large, would go on about Muslims, a thinly veiled euphemism.
I don't know, there may be reasons why the Muslims get singled out other than skin colour. Plus, you are hardly likely to get a representative view of the man in the street by viewing vox pops. I remember listening to one on Radio4 where they went to "the most leave voting constituency in the country" and all 4 people they spoke to regretted voting leave and "hadn't known what they voted for". If sentiment had really turned around that much the North would now be Lib Dem.
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Old 10th February 2020, 12:40 PM   #2891
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Racist is not really the right word for someone who is prejudiced against all "foreigners" (i.e. everyone who doesn't look and sound like them) even if they're the same race or nationality, but I can understand why some might use it as shorthand. Tribalist might be a better word.
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Last edited by Pixel42; 10th February 2020 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 10th February 2020, 12:47 PM   #2892
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Racist is not really the right word for someone who is prejudiced against all "foreigners" (i.e. everyone who doesn't look and sound like them) even if they're the same race or nationality, but I can understand why some might use it as shorthand. Tribalist might be a better word.
IMO xenophobe covers it pretty well.
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Old 10th February 2020, 01:41 PM   #2893
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
IMO xenophobe covers it pretty well.
That's the word Dad used to describe the only reason he could see for voting Brexit. A lot of his peers did, and some now regret it.
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Old 10th February 2020, 01:55 PM   #2894
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
For the record you brought up the idea of Racism against the English. It is your mistake, stop trying to blame others
For the record you are lying again. You were the one that brought up the racism idea (again) this time - you just can't stop yourself. But you can't take it when the insult is reflected back at you.
Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
We knew a lot of brexiteers are xenophobic racists.

Last edited by ceptimus; 10th February 2020 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 10th February 2020, 02:20 PM   #2895
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
A united Ireland would solve the border issue completely. Shame it didn't happen years ago. It would have greatly simplified Brexit, as well as removing the financial drain that Northern Ireland imposes on the rest of the UK (England really, because Scotland and Wales are also drains).

Simple geography is a sufficient reason for a united ireland. The sooner it happens, the better. The partition of the island is a hangover from the days of British imperial ambitions, propped up by mutual hatred between different brands of Christianity. Hopefully the younger generations in Ireland are less sectarian and more secular - if they can stop dancing to the tune of Ireland's shameful history, it will benefit everyone.
Oh good grief, so much drivel in one post...
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Old 10th February 2020, 02:22 PM   #2896
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
~In the south? sure. In the north? Not so much. I find it astonishing how anyone could be so naive.

You are flat out advocating yet another civil war and you do not understand why that might be.
He cause he doesn't understand reality and tried to distort it to fit Brexiteer fantasies. Again.
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Old 10th February 2020, 02:25 PM   #2897
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Them (or at least a significant percentage of them) actually being xenophobic racist little Englanders would also explain it, of course.
The Dumb, the Desperate and the Deplorable in action.
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Old 10th February 2020, 02:32 PM   #2898
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
For the record you are lying again. You were the one that brought up the racism idea (again) this time - you just can't stop yourself. But you can't take it when the insult is reflected back at you.
Top tip
If you are going accuse someone of lying make sure your quote supports your case otherwise you look silly.

Here is what I said

Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
For the record you brought up the idea of Racism against the English
The quote of mine you gave was nothing about racism against the English. That started in your post below.

Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
It reveals the other sides hatred of the English. They wouldn't call it racism against the English as they genuinely believe that it's impossible to be racist against the English. It's remarkable that England is unique in this regard.
Followed by your complaint that it is remainers who make the mistake of linking racism to nationality.
Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
But the remainers continually accuse the leavers of being racist for opposing the EU. So France+Germany+Italy+24 other countries is a race, but England isn't?

For the record, I think it's nonsense - none of the EU countries should be referred to as races - so why do remainers continue to make this mistake at every opportunity?
I just pointed out that you were the first to make that particular mistake. Apology accepted.
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Old 10th February 2020, 02:38 PM   #2899
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French firm wins Royal Navy Type 31 frigates contract

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/new...vy-3817922.amp
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Old 10th February 2020, 03:19 PM   #2900
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
IMO xenophobe covers it pretty well.
Yep.

Xenophobia is roughly 'fear of strangers' in Greek. The Greek way has always tended, barring war, to philoxenia, or, roughly, 'friend to the stranger'.

What shines out is that leave voters have a fair old streak of xenophobia running though their ranks.
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Old 10th February 2020, 03:44 PM   #2901
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"Brexit would put UK back of the queue for trade talks"
Barack Obama, 22nd April 2016

Brexiters: Project fear!

"U.K. Slips Behind EU in Trade Priorities" Trump, 10th February 2020

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ade-priorities
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Old 10th February 2020, 04:40 PM   #2902
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
A united Ireland would solve the border issue completely. Shame it didn't happen years ago. It would have greatly simplified Brexit, as well as removing the financial drain that Northern Ireland imposes on the rest of the UK (England really, because Scotland and Wales are also drains).

<snip>

I have no doubt that every right-thinking Brexiter lives for the day that their proud country can be freed of the crippling shackles of NI, Scotland, and Wales (and mebbe Cornwall?), and be free to stand as a single language, interloper free England, ready to take its deserved place in the pantheon of nations.

And I wish them well and all success in their endeavor.

The sooner, the better.
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Old 10th February 2020, 09:27 PM   #2903
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
We knew a lot of brexiteers are xenophobic racists. It is nice when they confirm their hatred for anyone who is not a little Englander.
Huh. I searched high and low for evidence of xenophobia and hatred in ceptimus' post and came up with nothing. Now you might be right about many Brexiteers having such qualities but I've never seen it from ceptimus.

Last edited by SezMe; 10th February 2020 at 09:28 PM.
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Old 10th February 2020, 09:34 PM   #2904
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
The Dumb, the Desperate and the Deplorable in action.
Hey! We're the nation of Deplorables. Keep your hands off.
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:02 AM   #2905
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Once again the government has had to revise its position once its promises have come into contact with reality:

Quote:
The government has told businesses frictionless trade with the EU will end this year with the introduction of import checks at the UK border.

EU trade will not be waved through with zero checks which had been the plan under a no-deal Brexit.

Traders will not be able to use special arrangements to lodge new paperwork after a grace period at a later date.

Officials said firms will have enough notice to prepare for changes in time for 1 January.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51453189

They really are making it up as they go along.

The "£350m a week" will be dwarfed by the cost to business of attempting to cope with the new situation.
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:08 AM   #2906
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Meanwhile in part of the fishing industry - the tail that is wagging the Brexit dog so to speak:

Quote:
Salmon farmers face "huge unnecessary burdens" and a loss of market share under UK government plans for Brexit.

The chief executive of the Scottish Salmon Producers Organisation (SSPO) said firms were being told to prepare for trade barriers with the EU.

The industry is also warning that added red tape could see £9m on costs and delays to the departure of fresh fish.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...iness-51437666

Remember all that Brussels red tape that was stifling industry (but which seemed so elusive when concrete examples were called for), well as Bachman Turner Overdrive might say "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet".

Quote:
SSPO chief executive Julie Hesketh-Laird said planned changes would require salmon farmers to have an export health certificate for every consignment, signed by a vet or health official.
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:18 AM   #2907
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
French firm wins Royal Navy Type 31 frigates contract

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/new...vy-3817922.amp
Misleading headline which makes it sound like they won the contract to build the frigates when, in fact, Thales will be integrating the electronic systems and this was part of the original proposal.
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:31 AM   #2908
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Meanwhile in part of the fishing industry - the tail that is wagging the Brexit dog so to speak:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...iness-51437666

Remember all that Brussels red tape that was stifling industry (but which seemed so elusive when concrete examples were called for), well as Bachman Turner Overdrive might say "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet".
It is all very well us taking back control of our fishing stock but as we know most fish we catch are exported and cost may become the most important factor. Tariffs on fish go up to 23%. If we don't get a deal will the EU want to buy as much fish if they have to pay 23% more. Does the UK want to change the fish we eat? It is easy to see how we could end up having control of our waters but a smaller fishing industry as it becomes less economically viable.
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Old 11th February 2020, 02:44 AM   #2909
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
It is all very well us taking back control of our fishing stock but as we know most fish we catch are exported and cost may become the most important factor. Tariffs on fish go up to 23%. If we don't get a deal will the EU want to buy as much fish if they have to pay 23% more. Does the UK want to change the fish we eat? It is easy to see how we could end up having control of our waters but a smaller fishing industry as it becomes less economically viable.
As with so much to do with Brexit, the position presented by those in favour eventually turns out to be far more complicated and the UK has far more to lose than was initially expected.

I get that the fishing industry has great emotional leverage for people in the UK but for an industry which accounts for around 0.1% of GDP to have one of the five red lines seems ridiculous to me. Even if regaining control of our waters were to usher in some new dawn for the UK fishing industry it would hardly be a rounding error nationally and it seems that playing hardball over fishing quotas will actually have a large detrimental effect.

Once again an example of what happens when lying propaganda comes into contact with reality.
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Old 11th February 2020, 03:04 AM   #2910
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Originally Posted by Lothian View Post
It is all very well us taking back control of our fishing stock but as we know most fish we catch are exported and cost may become the most important factor. Tariffs on fish go up to 23%. If we don't get a deal will the EU want to buy as much fish if they have to pay 23% more. Does the UK want to change the fish we eat? It is easy to see how we could end up having control of our waters but a smaller fishing industry as it becomes less economically viable.
Don't be daft. We can get rid of those EU regulations that stopped us from cutting costs to the bone, then we can undercut those anti business EU countries... What you mean they won't buy our cheaper fish because it isn't up to their standards, well we will teach them a lesson, we will boycott them!
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Old 11th February 2020, 03:10 AM   #2911
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A Northerner goes into a bar in London where there is a robot bartender. The robot says, “What will you have?”
The guy replies, “Whiskey.”
The robot brings back his drink and asks, “What’s your I.Q.?”
The guy says, “168.”
The robot continues to talk about physics, space exploration, and medical technology.
After the guy leaves and the more he thinks about it, the more curious he gets, so he decides to go back.

The robot asks, “What’s your drink?”
The guy answers, “Whiskey.”
The robot returns with his drink and asks, “What’s your I.Q.?”
The man replies, “100.”
The robot talks about Football, Manchester United, and Cricket.
The man finishes his drink, leaves, but is so interested in his “experiment” that he decides to try again.

He enters the bar and, as usual, the robot asks him what he want to drink.
The man replies, “Whiskey.”
The robot brings the drink and asks, “What’s your IQ?”The man answers, “50.”
The robot leans in real close and asks,
“So . . . are . . . you people . . . still happy . . . with Brexit?”
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Old 11th February 2020, 03:33 AM   #2912
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Originally Posted by SezMe View Post
Hey! We're the nation of Deplorables. Keep your hands off.
We have Barrett and his fascists.
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Old 11th February 2020, 04:01 AM   #2913
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Racist is not really the right word for someone who is prejudiced against all "foreigners" (i.e. everyone who doesn't look and sound like them) even if they're the same race or nationality, but I can understand why some might use it as shorthand. Tribalist might be a better word.
So the nazis were not really racist, but Tribalist?

Naa racist works fine.
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Old 11th February 2020, 05:48 AM   #2914
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So the nazis were not really racist, but Tribalist?

Naa racist works fine.
There are shades across the brexiteer population. I am sure there are some who are neither xenophobic or racist.

However a lot of the discussions around the time of Brexit focused on immigration and foreigners ruining the country and only coming here to take advantage of our generous benefits system. Thus despite the fact that immigrants net financial contribution was higher per capita than domestic. Xenophobia covers a lot of that.

You also have the racists. The BNP, Britain First and other racist groups backed brexit. Then there is the UKIP example I gave earlier with the racist poster.
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Old 11th February 2020, 06:16 AM   #2915
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Johnson's 'Australia-style' trade deal

"Ursula von der Leyen has mocked Boris Johnson’s claims to be willing to accept an Australian-style trade deal with the EU by reminding MEPs that no such agreement exists.

“Australia without any doubt is a strong and a like-minded partner,” Von der Leyen told MEPs. “But the European Union does not have a trade agreement with Australia. We are currently trading on WTO terms. And if this is the British choice, well, we are fine with that without any question.” "

link

I'm sure he knows this, so is it just more Trumpism at work?
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Old 11th February 2020, 06:22 AM   #2916
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
I'm sure he knows this, so is it just more Trumpism at work?
Yes, "no-deal" is being re-branded "Australian Deal" for reasons that I outlined upthread i.e.:
  • Australians are "just like us", therefore trustworthy so any deal they have must be equally suitable for the UK
  • The Australian economy has weathered the post-2008 economic downturn well so any deal the Australians have must be good for the economy

Which ignores the huge differences between the UK and Australian economies, which each has as major trading partners and that the Australia of the 2020s isn't the same as the Australia of the Doctor Blake Mysteries.
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Old 11th February 2020, 07:46 AM   #2917
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Meanwhile in part of the fishing industry - the tail that is wagging the Brexit dog so to speak:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...iness-51437666

Remember all that Brussels red tape that was stifling industry (but which seemed so elusive when concrete examples were called for), well as Bachman Turner Overdrive might say "You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet".
Finally there will be some Salmon left for the English!
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Old 11th February 2020, 03:37 PM   #2918
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Sajid Javid interview
Quote:
We are not going to have completely frictionless trade because we have left the customs union & the single market and that's a deliberate decision. We've been clear that there will be some changes
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Old 11th February 2020, 03:47 PM   #2919
Darat
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Finally there will be some Salmon left for the English!
Didn't know he faced charges in England as well...
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Old 11th February 2020, 06:58 PM   #2920
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Originally Posted by Pixel42 View Post
Racist is not really the right word for someone who is prejudiced against all "foreigners" (i.e. everyone who doesn't look and sound like them) even if they're the same race or nationality, but I can understand why some might use it as shorthand. Tribalist might be a better word.
The Great Roger Scruton (RIP) had a better word: oikophile
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