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17th September 2017, 11:31 AM | #41 |
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Apparently you did indeed read things wrong but what else is new?
Strange how you decide it's all just "a pack of lies from the Jews," when there's considerable testimony and documentation from German and other non-Jewish sources. |
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17th September 2017, 11:35 AM | #42 |
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As for photos of "Nazi gas vans" finding links to pictures took less than 5 seconds. If you can't find photos you really aren't looking. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/259234...yria-basement/ |
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17th September 2017, 11:46 AM | #43 |
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17th September 2017, 11:49 AM | #44 |
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17th September 2017, 11:55 AM | #45 |
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17th September 2017, 11:57 AM | #46 |
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There is extensive testimony and documentation from German sources that this is the door into the krema 1 gas chamber ...
and it is still be shown to visitors to Auschwitz as just that. The entire holohoax is a pack of Jewish lies, without a shred of physical evidence. Like a fractal, absurd at face value, and as you look in more detail the absurdities multiply. As Butz said 'The "Holocaust" is such a gigantic fraud that it is a cornucopia of absurdities.' |
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17th September 2017, 12:03 PM | #47 |
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Anyone with at least two brain cells to rub together can see that is not an original gas-tight door from Krema 1. Neither does anyone actually claim it is, Krema 1 was converted in to an air raid shelter. The configuration of the building changed entirely, including interior walls and doorways.
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17th September 2017, 12:07 PM | #48 |
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The holohoax is has the distinction of being the only hoax were the preposterous lies were etched in stone .... then cast in brass .... here it is ......
Then, 50 years after the fact, and after glasnost, the truth was revealed .... |
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17th September 2017, 12:16 PM | #49 |
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You've had your butt handed to you on this one before. Note it says PEOPLE, the (very wrong) Soviet estimate included Jews and non-Jews from all over Europe. Western historians in fact highly doubted those figures.
Quote:
Lovely how you use such big fat volumes of death records to apologise for the Nazis. Nice touch, Saggy. |
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17th September 2017, 12:18 PM | #50 |
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Of course a discrepancy of 3,000,000 deaths requires an explanation, but that was no problem ....
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17th September 2017, 12:24 PM | #51 |
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Actually it's very easy.
Since the Soviet 4 million is not exclusively Jewish your math fails. They obviously took into account the huge number of Polish and Soviet civilians murdered by the Nazis, plus the more than 3 million Soviet POWS who died in German captivity. They got it wrong, and maybe understandably so given the enormous loss of life the Nazis caused. All those murders and deaths were spread out across hundreds of camps and ghettos, but given that Auschwitz-Birkenau was KNOWN to be partly an extermination camp even before the war was over, how is it so ridiculous to assume a high percentage of those murders took place there? |
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17th September 2017, 12:44 PM | #52 |
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17th September 2017, 01:07 PM | #53 |
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A denialist passes of his opinion as if it is authoritative and equal to actual evidence and then resort to repeating previously easily debunked claims. I think the latest tactic is to be very repetitive and boring.
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17th September 2017, 01:31 PM | #54 |
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This is not 'an opinion', this is the door to the krema1 gas chamber, presented to millions of visitors at Auschwitz, who, to my amazement, don't laugh in the face of the guides who tell them such idiocy ...
Now, if anyone would like to verify that, they can take, along with David Cole, the standard Auschtwitz tour in the company of a tour guide ... and see for themselves .... David Cole Interviews Dr. Franciszek Piper at Auschwitz and Exposes a Fraud The vid includes an interview with the director of the Auschwitz museum who reveals that the hoax 'gas chamber' was constructed by the Soviets after the war. |
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17th September 2017, 01:44 PM | #55 |
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Every document and most of the witness testimonies cited in Hans' piece IIRC are from German authorities, with a number of Polish witnesses also cited and I believe a single Jewish source. In your fantasy world, that single Jewish source transforms 100 or so German and Polish documents and testimonies into "a pack of lies from the Jews." You need a new refrain, Saggy: this dog don't hunt.
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17th September 2017, 01:54 PM | #56 |
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17th September 2017, 01:55 PM | #57 |
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17th September 2017, 02:13 PM | #58 |
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An excellent question. The total duplicity and lack of shame for all posters supporting the hoax, coupled with the abject stupidity of many, convinces me that all are, shall we say, hoaxers. Are they trained hasbara, Jews, dupes ... there is no way to tell.
Or, are they just 'skeptics', which in the context of the ISF is one who expresses complete and unvarying skepticism to any questioning of the academic authority of the establishment. I think this may be a real personality type. Call this class C. Hasbara - Class A. Jews - Class B. ISF skeptics - Class C Rational data driven empiricists - Class D It seems nearly every poster other than myself is in class A-C. Rational discussion, any hint that the 'authority' is or even could be wrong, is completely missing. |
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17th September 2017, 02:16 PM | #59 |
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17th September 2017, 02:18 PM | #60 |
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My refrain is there is no physical evidence for the hoax. No matter how many hoax witnesses, irrelevant documents, absurd narratives, etc., you produce. Six million murdered in gas chambers disguised as shower rooms in the best documented genocide in history, and yet there are no bodies, no murder weapons, i.e. gas chambers disguised as shower rooms, and no documents. That dog is DOA.
And the chorus? All the 'eyewitnesses' are pathological and degenerate liars. More examples to come. |
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17th September 2017, 02:21 PM | #61 |
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First, I'm being polite. Second, I'm a conspiracy theorist, you're hasbara, trained or de-facto.
I clicked on your link and found an absurd fantasy with Blobel using a flame thrower, and then thermite grenades, to disappear the bodies. I'd be embarrassed to present such idiocy, but it's no problem for a hoaxer. |
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17th September 2017, 02:29 PM | #62 |
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No, that is not your refrain and it is not what I was referring to. Your refrain is that evidence for the Holocaust is all Jewish lies.
There is indeed physical evidence for the mass murder of Jews: I linked to where you ignored evidence about the mass graves at Chelmno in part III of this discussion. So I didn't present Hans' blog article as being about physical evidence; your now saying that it isn't is therefore beside the point. Hans' piece details German documents and German and Polish testimonies explaining how corpses were handled at Chelmno. You can continue to try changing the subject but it doesn't change the evidence which Hans has gathered and explained. Lots of adjectives - nothing to support them. Knock it off. Not one person in this discussion, nor one work we have cited makes any such claim. Unfortunately for you, "all" includes witnesses we've cited - the ones you refuse to address. Your continuing to post about witnesses no one here has cited in support of the case for the Holocaust may make you feel good, but it's irrelevant. |
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17th September 2017, 02:39 PM | #63 |
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No, you're not, you are lying about people's motives and calling me and others hasbaras whilst admitting that you have no clue about any such charge: "there is no way to tell." This behavior is actually rude as well as taking us off topic by making the discussion about your opponents instead of the issues.
Because, as I and others have said, you allege 1) a conspiracy of Jewish lies about the Holocaust, without providing explanation for the range of evidence for the Holocaust, including German and other sources and 2) a "hoax" that you can't define, explain, or support with evidence. I am focused on the issues: you say a conspiracy existed but refuse to provide support for this claim. You repeat such charges without explaining and supporting them - and you ignore nearly all the contrary evidence we present. This approach kills discussion. Unlike you - you admit that you have no way to tell about the charges you make about hasbaras - I can support what I say about your repeating conspiracy claims. No, I am no such thing, and you've admitted you don't know what you claim. Knock it off. What is your evidence that Hans's discussion is an "absurd fantasy"? Your persistent use of alarmist adjectives doesn't prove anything, except that you can type out adjectives. Hans cited as evidence for his discussion of the failed experiment with a flame thrower this and this; Hans presented this concerning the use of thermite. You've neither countered Hans' sources nor presented anything of your own - except baseless and desperate, er, adjectives. |
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17th September 2017, 03:13 PM | #64 |
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I discuss witnesses endorsed by the entire hoax establishment, Yad Vashem, USHMM, Spielberg, and who have been vetted by rabbis and hoax academics. Who cares what witnesses are discussed on this forum, I'm discussing nationally known witnesses being presented right now as authorities on the hoax on college campuses across the US, e.g. Zisblatt.
Of course I have proof, but it is indirect. And as the hasbarats here do not response to a direct clubbing with a 2x4, I don't see the point in presenting an indirect argument. But, I will ... the door to the hoax gas chamber pictured above ... presented to millions of visitors to Auschwitz .... anyone who defends or excuses that degenerate crime is a hasbarat or worse. |
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17th September 2017, 03:35 PM | #65 |
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First, there is no "hoax establishment." E.g., what rabbis think may differ a great deal from what scholars have found and argue - they have different concerns.
Second, the fact that archives include testimonies does not constitute "endorsement." Scholars use archives and assess what they find there - this especially goes for testimonies given long after the fact. Last year's Lessons & Legacies conference included a field trip to the USC Shoah archives to explore such issues in using them. Third, you are debating us - and the evidence we rely on. By refusing to engage it - and substituting material of your own choosing - you veer off into irrelevancy. So you are here why? You're practically admitting that you are using this forum not to discuss and debate other members' conclusions and arguments but to propagandize. You are ignoring the scholarship, which I have told you time and again that you're doing. Please, tell me how many times Zisblatt is referenced in the scholarly works listed in this post? Hint: zero. Since it is from sources like those on the list I posted that I draw my conclusions about the Holocaust, your ignoring those sources and posting about other material doesn't help me or anyone understand what you think is problematic (Jewish lies, hoaxing, etc) in the sources. I assure you - and Neander's article on Zisblatt is only the most visible part of this - Zisblatt is not a source scholars have used to prove the Holocaust. Again, not a single member of this forum has cited her testimony. No one here is responsible for every single statement made on TV, in magazines, or in various web sources about the Holocaust. Your attempt to make this so is dishonest and serves as your escape hatch to get you out of discussing what we do claim and what evidence we do use. You have no proof, indirect or direct. That's why you had to admit that "there is no way to tell." You are lying, Saggy. Prove me wrong. |
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17th September 2017, 03:39 PM | #66 |
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That is not being polite.
Quote:
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...elmno.html?m=1 Hint: Bodies did not simply disappear. |
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17th September 2017, 03:39 PM | #67 |
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17th September 2017, 03:41 PM | #68 |
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Hasbarats are never wrong, the concept of truth vs. lie is irrelevant to them. Their job is to defend the crimes of Israel and the Jews, including the holohoax. The fact that you don't condemn the Auschwitz Museum for presenting a hoax gas chamber to the unsuspecting and infinitely gullible public is all the proof needed for those to whom truth matters.
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17th September 2017, 03:45 PM | #69 |
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Strange how books published even before that mention the conversion of the crematorium in to an air raid shelter, and the Soviet's rather botched job of trying to reconfigure it to the original layout.
You'd think David Cole would know that, not like he would be deliberately misleading...right? |
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17th September 2017, 03:47 PM | #70 |
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To reinforce this point, both LeoMajor and I have posted this same material in reply to Saggy earlier (referenced here and in other posts - and he ignored it (actually he replied with links about Babi Yar . . . LOL).
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17th September 2017, 03:54 PM | #71 |
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First, that is not what the Auschwitz Museum does, as Dash80 has now told you, for the umpteenth time. Second, the Auschwitz Museum is hardly the only museum to use reconstructions. Third, even if one assumes that you are right about the Auschwitz Museum, you are engaging in at least two profound logical fallacies - false equivalence and association fallacy.
You've proved nothing; you've merely asserted a number of unproven points and drawn a false conclusion. And I am often wrong, so clearly I am not what you say. |
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17th September 2017, 03:57 PM | #72 |
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So how do you explain the fact that many accounts of early gassings in Krema 1 came from non-Jews, specifically Polish inmates and German guards? Neither of which had much love for Jews. Also most of those gassed in late 41/early 42 were not Jews but sick Poles and Soviet POWS. In fact, gassing was used in the Euthanasia program since the end of 1939, a program that was widely condemned in public and even protested against by the Vatican.
So much for your Jewish conspiracy. |
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17th September 2017, 04:32 PM | #73 |
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Please help me out, Saggy. Which of the following "lies from the Jews" are (a) pathological, (b) degenerate, (c) preposterous, (d) absurd, or (e) all of the above?
Example 1, Dubno:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Example 5, from trial testimony:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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17th September 2017, 04:43 PM | #74 |
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Well, this is the kind of black is white lie a hasbarat would tell.
If anyone wants confirmation ... David Cole Interviews Dr. Franciszek Piper at Auschwitz and Exposes a Fraud This is why 'debate' with hasbara is meaningless, just a continuous outpouring of absurd lies. EDIT: Which of these lies is .... (a) pathological, (b) degenerate, (c) preposterous, (d) absurd, or (e) all of the above? Your post gets and e, and not only that, it is easily verified by watching the link, which, everyone should watch in any case, it is one of the pillars of 'revisionism'. |
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17th September 2017, 04:49 PM | #75 |
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In other words, you can't prove your claim but you insist on wallowing in unfounded invective and ad hominem attacks.
In other words, you can't deal with the arguments and evidence I and others produce, so you will declare that we are "hasbara" and avoid debate that way. What utter nonsense. |
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17th September 2017, 05:22 PM | #76 |
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17th September 2017, 05:26 PM | #77 |
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Fair disclosure. I am not jewish, christian, muslim or any other crank denomination. I am an atheist. I am not american, nor live in america. I am not Israeli, nor live in Israel nor remotely close to the ME.
That said, The neo-nazis are nukking futs, the anti-zionists are nukking futs and to top it all, your country supports Israel anyway. Is Trump wrong to support Israel? Were all the past presidents wrong to support Israel? Has any president been right? What details? You have none. Seems to me that the terms "degenerate" and "hasbara" are insults that you picked up from various tempest-pooper pro-nazi sights which you foolishly thought were "killer" arguments all of their lonesome. Wrong. In fact, every time you use those terms, it makes your claims weaker. It would appear that you are unaware that abusing these terms makes your argument look even dumber, if that were possible. David Cole...it is to laugh. Fine, if that's your opinion, but there are no "hasbara" here that I know of. Just rational thinkers. And don't you know what "hasbara" actually means? Of course you don't. If you did you would know that you engage in "hasbara" every day of your own life (unless you have led a VERY sheltered life). Frankly, I am left wondering exactly where is the beef in your argument? So far, it seems to be all blather and no substance. I will wager that your next post will contain the words "degenerate" and "hasbara". |
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17th September 2017, 05:29 PM | #78 |
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17th September 2017, 05:32 PM | #79 |
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17th September 2017, 05:44 PM | #80 |
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Well you seem to not understand Saggy, LC, in his delusion mind he has been winning for last few months; Haven't you noticed that all the references on the Holocaust have been banned, all the lost Jews (or their descendants) have said, 'here we are', and all the history books have been re-written, Israel has collapsed and all the Jews have become Methodists, Hitler is now considered a nice guy, and is returning from exile in Antarctic - all due to Saggy's stern statements to us on this forum!!!
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