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17th September 2017, 05:45 PM | #81 |
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Robert Van Pelt, respected hoax academic admits that there is no physical evidence for 99% of the hoax ...
A case for letting nature take back Auschwitz There is no physical evidence of the holocaust. No bodies, no murder weapons ('gas chambers'), no documents, no photographs, no intercepted communications (although the Allies broke the German encryption codes). There is only 'testimony'. This was admitted by one of the most respected holohoax scholars, Robert Jan Van Pelt, arguing that Birkenau should not be preserved, Pelt states "Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove . . . it has become part of our inherited knowledge. I don't think that the Holocaust is an exceptional case in that sense. We in the future – remembering the Holocaust – will operate in the same way that we remember most things from the past. We will know about it from literature and eyewitness testimony. . ." Van Pelt is right in that there is no physical evidence of the holocaust, but as for other historical events, like WW II for example, he may have overlooked a few things ! |
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17th September 2017, 05:52 PM | #82 |
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My daughter took 8th grade history last year, and her text had a page on the hoax, that contained two whoppers that were easily demonstrated, the 11 million figure for the total # of victims (Lipstadt revealed that the # was made up by Wiesenthal) and that the US liberated several 'death camps' (all the hoax death camps were in Poland and none were liberated by the US/Brits).
I emailed the published and told them of the errors. They took the matter under consideration. They changed the text and "We have updated our online text and will update the print the next time we go to press." |
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17th September 2017, 05:56 PM | #83 |
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17th September 2017, 06:01 PM | #84 |
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17th September 2017, 06:05 PM | #85 |
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Saggy is now dodging questions about what his attempted insults mean; which post he referred to as "in your face preposterous lies"; how a video by David Cole made decades ago proves that members of this forum are "hasbara"; and about Polish and German testimony on early Krema 1 and other gassings. Presumably because, er, hasbara!
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17th September 2017, 06:07 PM | #86 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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17th September 2017, 06:10 PM | #87 |
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What Saggy has described is routine for textbook publishers, something they do day in and day out, because their materials often contain many errors, statements open to different interpretations, debatable use of terminology, statements which parents and others just plain object to.
If Saggy found just two errors in his daughter's book, good for that publisher: textbook publishers usually don't have a very good record on mistakes in their materials. |
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17th September 2017, 06:12 PM | #88 |
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"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid." |
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17th September 2017, 06:24 PM | #89 |
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Pelt's book, The Case for Auschwitz, supported by Dwork & Pelt's book Auschwitz: 1270 to the Present, details the evidence which Pelt uses to prove mass murder of Jews in Auschwitz and will make clear how dishonest are deniers when they cherrypick this quotation out of the newspaper article. See also The Pelt Report here.
Anyone who can read Pelt's Irving trial report or his books and still think that Pelt's a good person to cite to claim lack of evidence for Auschwitz has powers of imagination I cannot personally fathom. |
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17th September 2017, 06:39 PM | #90 |
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For those who are interested in the context for Saggy's correction of his daughter's textbook on "the 11 million figure for the total # of victims" (5 million of them non-Jews), it's not as simple as Saggy wants readers to believe; here is the first part of HC's discussion of Wiesenthal's estimate and issues involved - defining "victims" and "perpetrators":
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17th September 2017, 06:44 PM | #91 |
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17th September 2017, 06:48 PM | #92 |
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17th September 2017, 06:58 PM | #93 |
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The number is probably larger, depending on the definition you want to use. It's unfortunate that Wiesenthal felt the need to be inclusive, to make it less about the Jewish victims and more about including all of the victims of Nazi aggression.
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17th September 2017, 07:42 PM | #94 |
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Really, Saggy? How about the official documents of the SS and Police Supreme Court in Munich dealing with the case against SS-Untersturmführer Max Täubner, dated the 24th of May, 1943. He stood accused of not only taking part in "actions" against Jews (in Alexandriya, Ukraine) with a "special cruelty" but also taking unauthorized photographs of the killings and then taking the negatives back to Germany to have them developed and showed the pictures to his wife and friends. This was considered to be a grave risk to the Sercurity of the Reich. Here is an excerpt from the verdict of the SS and Police Supreme Court in Munich:
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From the ['The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The Free Press, NY, 1988, p, 196-207] Here are two of Täubner's pictures: http://bp3.blogger.com/_tkm9v4opNG8/...t+pictures.jpg The Court documents also included testimony from witnesses, namely other SS officers. Here's the testimony of SS-Mann Ernst Göbel:
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There is much more about this in "The Good Old Days"including other witnesses who corroborate what happened. Your trip to the library awaits! |
17th September 2017, 07:43 PM | #95 |
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100% right. Can I quote you on that?
On the other hand, there are shiploads of physical evidence of the Holocaust, while there is absolutely no physical evidence whatsoever that anyone made the whole thing up. So far, you have spectacularly failed to bring a single shred of evidence to the table that backs up any part of your absurd claims CLUES ► Calling people liars is not evidence ► Highlighting minor discrepancies is not evidence ► Making unsupported assertions that documents have been forged is not evidence. ► Your failure to understand the difference between a Polish Catholic and a German Jew is not evidence. But I'll tell you what is, or would be, evidence... ► documentation showing the transportation of thousands of Dutch Jews who were taken to Auschwitz and then onward to your claimed transit camps? ► proof that any of the millions of Jews of the "Yiddishland" who disappeared between 1939 and 1945 without leaving a trace, were alive and well after the war. The problem is that you won't address any of these real issues because you can't. |
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17th September 2017, 08:28 PM | #96 |
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. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat. - Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft |
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18th September 2017, 02:29 AM | #97 |
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I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings. |
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18th September 2017, 05:47 AM | #98 |
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Physical evidence for the holohoax .....
Physical evidence I gassed my dog, or that the US gassed the Japanese in camps in CA ..... |
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18th September 2017, 06:37 AM | #99 |
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I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings. |
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18th September 2017, 06:43 AM | #100 |
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. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat. - Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft |
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18th September 2017, 07:30 AM | #101 |
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Childish? Cans of Zyklon-B, a commercially insecticide available and used all over Europe, are often cited as evidence of the holohoax. You can watch the Cole vid for verification.
But, hey, if you have photos of any 'real', you know, real, evidence of the hoax, let's see it ..... I've heard there are some very incriminating piles of shoes to be seen ???? |
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18th September 2017, 07:53 AM | #102 |
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18th September 2017, 08:14 AM | #103 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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18th September 2017, 08:33 AM | #104 |
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. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat. - Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft |
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18th September 2017, 10:01 AM | #105 |
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner. Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so. - Manifesto |
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18th September 2017, 10:03 AM | #106 |
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner. Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so. - Manifesto |
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18th September 2017, 10:42 AM | #107 |
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"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid." |
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18th September 2017, 10:45 AM | #108 |
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I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings. |
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18th September 2017, 10:49 AM | #109 |
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18th September 2017, 11:12 AM | #110 |
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"The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid." |
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18th September 2017, 11:32 AM | #111 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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18th September 2017, 12:30 PM | #112 |
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18th September 2017, 01:22 PM | #113 |
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When Saggy writes that "All the 'eyewitnesses' are pathological and degenerate liars," he has a special definition of the word "all": for Saggy it means "a few that I've found and don't believe." Saggy has found - well, been handed by someone - also a few unreliable witnesses - memory shot after many years? - and a few outright imposters - in Saggy's world, these are "all the 'eyewitnesses." No other witnesses are to be considered . . .
By the same token, "pathological" and "degenerate" seem to refer to witnesses who mostly relate what the Germans did. It's very odd, but that's what we have here. |
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18th September 2017, 01:47 PM | #114 |
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Each of the phony eyewitnesses I've discussed has been very heavily promoted by the hoax industry. I haven't even mentioned one of the most idiotic, and that's saying something, that being Elie Wiesel, and he was the first director of the USHMM and won a Nobel Peace Prize, if you can believe it.
But, rather than have a Hilter loving denier pick the phony eyewitnesses, let's let Steven Spielberg, with his collection of 50,000 testimonies, choose the best and most compelling ..... Hey, wait a minute, Spielberg has already done that, and he made an Academy Award winning mockumentary, oops, documentary movie about them titled 'The Last Days'. To see his collection of degenerate idiots disassembled to their constituent idiocies, watch the vid by Eric Hunt, Spielberg's Hoax - The Last Days of The Big Lie |
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18th September 2017, 01:54 PM | #115 |
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Saggy you already brought this up before - several times - repeating the same stuff that is absent of content and context is a waste of everyone's time.
I mean you're entire argument consists of about 20 posts, why not just number them and say instead: I say #3 and & #4 and this is the 42nd time!!! That is what you are doing. So why no make it easier on you and us. |
18th September 2017, 02:01 PM | #116 |
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18th September 2017, 02:03 PM | #117 |
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Sorry, unless you're having a conversation with a rock (and why would you do that?) you haven't proven anything. To anyone. In fact, you haven't even tried. You cited your opinion, then alluded to me being a rock. Not the best of starts. Why not take a step back, consider what you claimed, marshall your evidence, and try to prove your claim?
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner. Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so. - Manifesto |
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18th September 2017, 02:20 PM | #118 |
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No, let's stick to the witnesses whose testimony historians have used to reach their conclusions. And, since you claimed "all" witnesses lie, and are degenerate, pathological, etc, what's keeping you from discussing the witnesses we say are credible? Oh, they're credible and your game is up . . . got it.
Just because a witness was taped and included in Spielberg's collection doesn't mean the witness's testimony is useful for proving the Holocaust, or even accurate. Which I've explained to you - along with how an academic conference last year sponsored a visit to the archive for discussion of how to make use of and evaluate what's in it. P.S. - By the way, you never answered the question I asked you here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2&postcount=74. More dodging, eh? Come on, tell me, which are (a) pathological, (b) degenerate, (c) preposterous, (d) absurd, or (e) all of the above? P.S.S. - Eric Hunt still repudiates his Holocaust denial. |
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18th September 2017, 05:42 PM | #119 |
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19th September 2017, 01:21 AM | #120 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232 Ezekiel 23:20 |
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