|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
22nd June 2018, 04:16 PM | #281 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
|
22nd June 2018, 04:34 PM | #282 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,474
|
|
22nd June 2018, 04:52 PM | #283 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,087
|
Evidently confounding the already confused.
You, in this particular flight of CTist fantasy, wish to cite eye-witness testimony as being superior to scientific fact. Here's the deal. Witnesses often make mistakes in recounting their experiences. If a witness account does not support the actual physical evidence the accepted course of action is, in the absence of physical evidence in support of the witness testimony, to go with science over the oral reporting from witnesses. The fact that witnesses put RFK "only" within "X" amount of distance when the bullet wounds exhibit that the murder weapon was closer, that doesn't indicate conspiracy, it indicates that the witnesses are correct. I know it's hard to swallow, but with all the jive that CTists swallow in support of their interesting world view it shouldn't be too hard to at least take in a little truth while drinking the CTist Kool-Aid. |
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
|
22nd June 2018, 06:53 PM | #284 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 20,071
|
|
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
|
22nd June 2018, 07:09 PM | #285 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 6,863
|
I love how MK Ultra shows up when CTists need to get the real perpetrator off the hook. Why is the fact that Sirhan Sirhan was obviously in mental decline, based on the interviews conducted by LAPD, and that in the end his lawyers should have done a better job with the insanity defense?
But no, it's always "The CIA made him do it". |
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha |
|
22nd June 2018, 07:28 PM | #286 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,866
|
I think the only reason RFK Jr. is still alive is cause he lost his mind.
Which is such a shame, I saw him speak years ago and found him very inspiring. |
22nd June 2018, 07:30 PM | #287 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 20,071
|
|
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
|
22nd June 2018, 07:43 PM | #288 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,087
|
Correction to my post 283 above:
The fact that witnesses put RFK "only" within "X" amount of distance when the bullet wounds exhibit that the murder weapon was closer, that doesn't indicate conspiracy, it indicates that the witnesses are incorrect. |
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
|
22nd June 2018, 08:22 PM | #289 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,306
|
|
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
22nd June 2018, 08:38 PM | #290 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
... and now we have entered: evading the question phase.
1. You cited and underlined this from said study: ”... the autopsy report corroborates eyewitness accounts, dispelling a conspiracy theory that suggests more than one gunman was involved in the shooting.” 2. I read said study and find no corroboration. On the contrary, even if counting only the single one witness who said ”one foot” at the closest, it is NO CORROBORATION of this witness report. 3. You are citing and bolding findings that points out how unreliable witness testimonies often are, and should therefore not be taken seriously. So, what are you trying to show with your ’scientific study? 1. The study shows that the autopsy corrobrates the witness testimonies? 2. The study shows that the autopsy DO NOT corrobarate the witness testimonies? What? |
22nd June 2018, 09:02 PM | #291 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
|
22nd June 2018, 09:08 PM | #292 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,306
|
And they can even be incorrect in situations other that what they are recalling they have seen.
In 1940, Winston Churchill gave one of his most famous speeches (the "We Shall Fight on the Beaches" speech). He gave that speech on 4 June in the House of Commons. Many years later, people who were alive at the time (including my father and my uncle) remember hearing that actual speech live on the a BBC as he was giving it. The trouble is that they were wrong. Churchill's "We Shall Fight on the Beaches" was not recorded at the time. The only thing broadcast on the radio was a commentator voicing excerpts from the speech. It wasn't until nine years later in 1949 that Churchill was asked to repeat the speech to be recorded it was that re-oration that was broadcast by the BBC. People like my father and uncle rare simply misremembering when they heard it. CT's would be amazed because "how could they not get the details right when there was so much at stake" reasons. |
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
22nd June 2018, 10:28 PM | #293 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
|
|
22nd June 2018, 10:32 PM | #294 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
|
|
22nd June 2018, 10:39 PM | #295 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
|
22nd June 2018, 10:41 PM | #296 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
|
22nd June 2018, 10:54 PM | #297 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
|
|
22nd June 2018, 10:55 PM | #298 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 13,087
|
|
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like "Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus |
|
22nd June 2018, 10:56 PM | #299 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
|
|
22nd June 2018, 11:01 PM | #300 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,306
|
|
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
22nd June 2018, 11:45 PM | #301 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
|
22nd June 2018, 11:47 PM | #302 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
|
22nd June 2018, 11:53 PM | #303 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
|
23rd June 2018, 12:00 AM | #304 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
I’m responding to a barrage of requests from a whole school of adherants to the Mighty Church everytime I post. It takes time to sort through. Most of it is ad hominem, change of subject, straw man and repeting in absurdum, but what the heck, that’s who you are and I feel good exposing it.
Have you, Hans, ever presented anything of substance ever anywhere? I mean, ever? Show me. |
23rd June 2018, 12:07 AM | #305 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
|
23rd June 2018, 12:51 AM | #306 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
A new documentary on the Sirhan case: https://youtu.be/lCU2MCxjAJ0
”Was Sirhan Sirhan hypnotically programmed to assassinate Bobby Kennedy? For the last eleven years, Dr. Daniel Brown, a leading expert on hypnosis and coercive persuasion at Harvard Medical School, and Sirhan's attorney Laurie Dusek, have spent over 150 hours with Sirhan, trying to recover his memory of the shooting. These sessions have produced some extraordinary new evidence of the "range mode" programming allegedly used to set up Sirhan as the lone assassin. On the 50th anniversary of the assassination, you can now watch Brown and Dusek discuss these new discoveries for the first time.”Brown also adminstered new rorschach tests on Sirhan and blinded them for evaluations by third party experts + the same for the tests made before the trial after the assassination, and concluded that he is not and was not a ”paranoid schizofrenic”, as was concluded by both the ’defense’ and the prosecution at the same trial. Brown has authored four textbooks on hypnosis and have been repetedly consulted by the International Court of Justice in Haag for his expertise in trauma and memory connected to war crimes and crimes against humanity. He took on Sirhans case pro bono and at great personal cost. |
23rd June 2018, 02:18 AM | #307 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,306
|
|
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
23rd June 2018, 02:33 AM | #308 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
|
23rd June 2018, 02:49 AM | #309 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,306
|
I'm not changing the subject. I'm asking you to to justify the position you have taken, i.e. that there was a second shooter (which you have maintained from a time long before this scientific study came out). Precedence therefore demands that you first provide evidence to back up your claim. Once you have done that, then we can deal with the issue of this more recent scientific study, and how it refutes your claim.
|
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
23rd June 2018, 02:53 AM | #310 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
|
23rd June 2018, 02:54 AM | #311 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,306
|
|
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
23rd June 2018, 02:57 AM | #312 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
|
23rd June 2018, 03:16 AM | #313 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,306
|
Prior to that, you claimed that there was a second shooter.
Precedence therefore demands that you first provide evidence to back up that prior claim. Once you have done that, then we can deal with the issue of this more recent scientific study, and how or if it refutes your claim. |
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
23rd June 2018, 03:23 AM | #314 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.
Posts: 7,177
|
And which of those three options are you claiming for your utterly unevidenced claim that the MSM has never reported the RFK conspiracy theories before?
I do find this claim rather rich coming from you. How many pages in the JFK thread did you devote to arguing about the exact meaning of the word "should"? Just because you haven't read it doesn't mean it wasn't there. "My" driplets (actually Wikipedia's list) demonstrate this point exactly. The whole point is that they are from a very long period of time, something you claimed was the opposite (that this phenomenon was a recent one). I also note the shift of goalposts at the end. Your first claim was that the various theories had not been picked up on by the MSM. Now you appear to be trying to change this to "balanced" reporting. On this point, as you are now making claims about the balance of these articles, just to clarify: by 'balance', I trust you mean 'fairly reporting both sides of the story', rather than 'breathless and uncritical acceptance of CT hogwash'. Assuming you mean the former, as it is your claim that the MSM is biased against, shall we say, alternative, theories, it seems only reasonable that you have actually read these articles and come to some conclusions on this. Care to share them, just to prove that this isn't just prejudiced assumption? Bear in mind that no outlet in an independent press is under any obligation to report made-up paranoia as fact. A balanced article can still come out in favour of the common narrative. Strong words. On what are you basing these slurs? Please quote my dishonest posts, and/or those in which I oppose truth and justice, or retract and apologise. |
__________________
'Of course it can be OK to mistreat people.'- shuttlt Bring Back the Yak! P.J. Denyer |
|
23rd June 2018, 03:26 AM | #315 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
Well, if RFK was shot from behind and the fatal headshot was fired an inch from the entrance wound, how could Sirhan at all time be in front of him, not closer than three feet with his pistol?
All witnesses exept one who stood far behind RFK, said that Sirhan was not closer than three feet with his pistol. The dissenting witness said not closer than one foot, still far from close enough. That is, not a single witness gives support to the theory that Sirhan fired the shots that hit RFK = there were at least one more shooter. Now, explain why you are promoting a ”scientific study” that has its own main conclusion contradicted within its own report. |
23rd June 2018, 04:38 AM | #316 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,306
|
|
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
23rd June 2018, 06:29 AM | #317 |
Banned
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,906
|
If RFK was shot from behind and ALL witnesses in the pantry says Sirhan was firing his pistol from in front not closer than three feet, it had to be someone else who shot RFK = a second shooter.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Now, explain why you are promoting a ”scientific study” that has its own main conclusion contradicted within its own report. |
23rd June 2018, 08:03 AM | #318 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
|
|
23rd June 2018, 08:04 AM | #319 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
|
|
23rd June 2018, 08:06 AM | #320 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 9,071
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|