|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
10th July 2018, 11:07 AM | #1 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
|
Trump a Russian Sleeper Agent since 1987
This is an interesting article by Jonathan Chait in New York magazine about the upcoming Trump-Putin summit.
Will Trump Be Meeting With His Counterpart — Or His Handler? Key points:
As they say, read the whole thing. Any thoughts? |
10th July 2018, 11:18 AM | #2 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 39,057
|
The Muscovian Candidate!
|
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
|
10th July 2018, 11:18 AM | #3 |
Philosopher
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Cole Valley, CA
Posts: 5,335
|
Front page NYT and CNN tomorrow!
|
__________________
So, if he's doing it by divine means, I can only tell him this: 'Mr. Geller, you're doing it the hard way.' --James Randi |
|
10th July 2018, 12:03 PM | #4 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
Coincidentally, my shower thought this morning was that the timeline for Trump-Russia collusion didn't work out, unless Trump were to have been improbably in bed with Putin for a long time before he got nominated.
|
10th July 2018, 12:11 PM | #5 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
|
Jonathan Chait - getting paid for writing shower thoughts since 1995!
|
10th July 2018, 01:02 PM | #6 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
|
|
10th July 2018, 01:09 PM | #7 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,552
|
Trump would see such an arrangement as Russia working for him, rather than he other way around.
He would be wrong, of course. |
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
|
10th July 2018, 01:33 PM | #8 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
|
Don't be ridiculous! If Trump was a sleeper agent for Russia he would now be doing all sorts of things to fulfill that role. Like cozying up to Putin, alienating and angering our allies, undermining the USA's influence and prestige throughout the globe, embarking on trade wars to weaken the economy of the USA and our trade partners, undercutting democratic governments in favor of strongman dictators, turning Americans against one another by sowing hatred of fellow citizens, fanning fears and unease in the American population, and attempting to discredit the key democratic foundations of our own society, including the FBI, the State Department, the courts,and the press.
And what would be the point? If Trump were to even begin such treachery the people of the US and the Congress, including those in his own Party, would rise up and kick him out of office within a week. Come on, we are talking about obvious treason! We are not some 3rd world country where a greedy and corrupt wealthy strongman could take power and blatantly seek personal gain at the cost of the welfare of the population, the future of the country, and the ideals that make us a society! |
10th July 2018, 01:40 PM | #9 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
|
10th July 2018, 01:45 PM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
By that logic, we haven't had a patriotic American President since at least... 1930? They've all been either Russian agents, Chinese agents, or Iranian agents. For you Operation Eagle Claw was a tragic failure. For Jimmy "Abdullah" Carter, it was just as planned. Every single one percenter in the country is beholden to a foreign kompromat, probably.
|
10th July 2018, 01:47 PM | #11 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,552
|
|
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
|
10th July 2018, 01:58 PM | #12 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
|
|
10th July 2018, 02:06 PM | #13 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
|
Can one of you two explain the above exchange please?
|
10th July 2018, 02:17 PM | #14 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
|
I am assuming that TGZ was inquiring as to my grasp of current reality. I may have been wrong.
|
10th July 2018, 02:38 PM | #15 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 6,863
|
|
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha |
|
10th July 2018, 03:15 PM | #16 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
|
10th July 2018, 05:52 PM | #17 |
Mafia Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 19,579
|
I think The Great Zaganza meant a reference to the Mandela Effect, an IMHO stupid name for people who are too dumb to follow the news and too thick-headed to concede they may have misremembered.
|
__________________
"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf "I think accuracy is important" - Vixen |
|
10th July 2018, 06:08 PM | #18 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
|
Come on, the actions of Dear Leader are not to be questioned.
Frankly, there is no evidence, however convincing, that will convince our Trump worshippers that Dear Leader is capable of misdeeds or errors, Admit that, and it endangers their precious tax cuts. And yes, I am convinced they are willing to throw basic freedoms out the window for a 5% tax cut. |
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
|
10th July 2018, 07:34 PM | #19 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,300
|
|
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
10th July 2018, 07:53 PM | #20 |
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,924
|
|
__________________
________________________ |
|
10th July 2018, 08:41 PM | #21 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
|
10th July 2018, 08:43 PM | #22 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,806
|
|
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
|
11th July 2018, 07:32 AM | #23 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
|
|
11th July 2018, 07:38 AM | #24 |
King of the Pod People
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 25,628
|
The Russia thing is getting a bit ridiculous.
|
11th July 2018, 07:45 AM | #25 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 7,349
|
*That one*.
So Trump visits Russia and gets huge "loans" from them, he then out of the blue takes out an ad, at $95,000 ($215,000 in present day dollars), attacking US spending on protecting our allies. In a time of a booming economy and Reagan outspending the Soviet military... thats how he starts out a planned political career https://www.buzzfeed.com/ilanbenmeir...b7l#.pjkEM1yG6 |
11th July 2018, 10:36 AM | #26 |
"más divertido"
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 24,384
|
|
11th July 2018, 10:46 AM | #27 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
|
11th July 2018, 11:09 AM | #28 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,690
|
|
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
|
11th July 2018, 12:33 PM | #29 |
NWO Litter Technician
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 15,161
|
|
__________________
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me. - Emo Philips
|
|
11th July 2018, 01:58 PM | #30 |
The Grammar Tyrant
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 34,996
|
Yep - my failure to understand why this is in CT - it seems very likely to me.
Aside from granting his boss Syria, Crimea and at least east Ukraine, I thought the final proof was bullying other countries out of the breastfeeding support until Russia stepped up and USA went silent. His attacks on Germany overnight are just adding emphasis. Trump is 100% Putin's bitch. |
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable. |
|
11th July 2018, 02:05 PM | #31 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
|
|
11th July 2018, 02:39 PM | #32 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 17,646
|
I agree. For me there is no question that Trump identifies strongly with Putin, allies with him, and repeatedly favors Russia's interests at the expense of those of the USA. I believe Trump's views come from his general love of powerful strongmen, his delusion that he has a special man-to-man chemistry with Putin, and a web of financial benefits he has, or hopes to obtain from his Russia connections. Plus bullies such as Trump attack those they perceive as weaker than they are, but are afraid of and act obsequiously with those they believe to be more powerful. Agree with my view or not, it falls solidly within USA politics.
However, adding to this the proposal that Trump is consciously a Russian agent and his actions are directly and specifically controlled by Russian handlers does take it into C&CT territory for now (although the possibility has entered my mind and I am open to evidence). No matter what it may prove more pleasant to discuss these ideas here than in USA Politics. |
11th July 2018, 02:57 PM | #33 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,690
|
It makes an interesting test case of the difference between an actual conspiracy, and a conspiracy theory, and how to prove that, what some people assume to be the latter, is actually the former. Sure, at present, there's no actual evidence that Trump is an agent of Russia, but so far, nothing that's been claimed has been physically impossible, or fundamentally contradictory. Consider the CT that the 9/11 attacks were created as an excuse to invade Iraq. This directly contradicts the fact that the list of people who were alleged to carry out the attacks contained no people from Iraq, or with ties to Iraq. This Russia Theory doesn't seem to have any such logically unlikely elements. It fundamentally makes logical sense:
If you were a foreign power looking to subvert the US, this wouldn't be a bad way to do it. Every step advances that agenda, and no steps oppose it. Again, there's no evidence for it, but it's entirely plausible. |
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
|
11th July 2018, 03:04 PM | #34 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 6,863
|
Trump has redefined the phrase "Useful Idiot".
He's not a sleeper agent, just a guy who is in deep with the wrong people. I find it funny that here on the Conspiracy Theory board that I debate/argue with people about imaginary CT's while this multi-layered conspiracy is unfolding in broad daylight, and nobody seems to care. From the outside it looks like the FSB used our own weapon against us in with the data stolen by Edward Snowden: https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/ All the crap I have to wade through on this board about MKUltra, and here you have a real-world strategy using social media to advance a political cause. The NSA wasn't the first to think this up, advertising think-tanks in this country and Europe, and Facebpook themselves researched the concept. Facebook conducted experiments on its unsuspecting users to see how positive news affect them, and then how negative news affected them. I want to think there will be a course correction in November but I'm not seeing the numbers yet. |
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha |
|
11th July 2018, 10:10 PM | #35 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 2,934
|
|
__________________
"... when you dig my grave, could you make it shallow so that I can feel the rain" - DMB |
|
11th July 2018, 10:11 PM | #36 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,300
|
|
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
12th July 2018, 12:28 AM | #37 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,332
|
No he's not.
What a horrible candidate for deep-cover. |
12th July 2018, 05:15 AM | #38 |
NWO Kitty Wrangler
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 29,690
|
|
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd |
|
12th July 2018, 05:21 AM | #39 |
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
|
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
|
12th July 2018, 07:34 AM | #40 |
Merchant of Doom
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Not in Hell, but I can see it from here on a clear day...
Posts: 15,112
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|