|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
15th April 2013, 01:20 AM | #761 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,863
|
|
__________________
No civilization ever collapsed because the poor had too much to eat. |
|
15th April 2013, 02:32 AM | #762 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 26,122
|
He has the missile fantasy, no thermite. He says the police lied about melted concrete to support high temperatures, melted steel etc. He claims no melted steel, no melted concrete; he has something against the police.
He is a no plane fantasy person. Missiles did his fantasy; invisible ones, which look like flights 11 and 175. Plus a missile for 93 filled with DNA, and the same for 77. The OP was actually a cut and paste of his website, where he rants about police. He claims the police lied to support a fake official story. He show evidence of aircraft landing gear stuck in a section of the exterior of the WTC which flew from the WTC to the street - debunking his no plane fantasy. Self debunking. |
15th April 2013, 04:11 AM | #763 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,128
|
|
15th April 2013, 05:12 AM | #764 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 2,097
|
|
16th April 2013, 09:08 AM | #765 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,794
|
|
16th April 2013, 10:05 AM | #766 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 26,122
|
|
16th April 2013, 10:23 AM | #767 |
Devilish Dictionarian
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: An elusive house at Bachelors Grove Cemetery
Posts: 20,071
|
|
__________________
"You must not let your need to be right be more important than your need to find out what's true." - Ray Dalio, Principles |
|
16th April 2013, 10:57 AM | #768 |
Rave on, Not Fade Away
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,189
|
|
__________________
I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings. |
|
16th April 2013, 04:37 PM | #769 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,120
|
I am not an expert in everything, so I have no ego to check when to comes to subjects that are outside my realm of understanding.
The behavior of concrete in commercial buildings (like the WTC) when subjected to intense heat is one of those subjects that, amazingly, I am outside of my expertise. The caption provided in the NYPD Museum that seems to speak to this, would need to have some science behind it in order for me to take it as written. Otherwise, I'd have to conclude that they're just pulling it out of their proverbial asses. |
16th April 2013, 11:24 PM | #770 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,794
|
|
17th April 2013, 04:36 PM | #771 |
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,120
|
|
17th April 2013, 04:41 PM | #772 |
Muse
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 692
|
|
17th April 2013, 04:56 PM | #773 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 26,122
|
Pushing silly, fantasy based lies to support an anti-war stand; ends justify the means, most Nixon like. You are what you hate.
Everyone agrees (except idiots in 911 truth movement, like Balsamo, or Gage) there was no melted concrete - you take a simple error and turn it into silly claptrap to attack police and fire fighters; based on your fantasy version of 911. |
18th April 2013, 03:29 AM | #774 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,863
|
|
__________________
No civilization ever collapsed because the poor had too much to eat. |
|
19th April 2013, 01:37 PM | #775 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,054
|
First of all, it's not possible to spot what kind of a metallic compound "river" of metal would made up of. I certainly couldn't, and I've worked with industrial smithing and steel for about a decade. What I have noticed, however, is that people (laymen, basically) tend to use the word 'steel' and 'metal' a bit interchangebly. And no thermitic reaction et al could possibly create "rivers of molten steel" in any case.
Second of all, regarding this picture of the gun and the concrete: I don't buy the idea that it got so hot that the concrete melted and then encased a gun. Why not? Well, from what I can see; the concrete clearly didn't get hot enough for it to have melted. It does, however, look like the concrete-compounds (gypsum, sulfur, dust etc) baked themselves together during impact and that the heat thereof caused the compounds to be released and fuse. This is not a mystery nor is it unheard of.
Quote:
|
__________________
"I don't believe I ever saw an Oklahoman who wouldn't fight at the drop of a hat -- and frequently drop the hat himself." - Robert E. Howard |
|
19th April 2013, 03:25 PM | #776 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,849
|
|
19th April 2013, 03:46 PM | #777 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,617
|
Your definition of "argument" is very generous. This could be a more appropriate description.
That is a topic of psychology which is probably unrelated to 9/11.
|
20th April 2013, 07:51 AM | #778 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,794
|
Since so many of you spend your time naysaying anything and everything that doesn't agree with the official story, I just wanted to see one of you state what exactly you do believe. But I notice you don't so much speak for yourself, as speak for "the debunkers here".
The point of this thread is to highlight the fact that such falsehoods were propigated by people in positions of authority. This doesn't stop you and the debunkers from believing the rest of the story told by the authorities though does it? They were wrong about molten concrete and steel, but that didn't stop them from building a museum exhibit to indoctrinate school children. None of this bothers the "debunkers" though - they're just harmless mistakes that resulted in the murder of hundreds of thousands. Fool me once... |
20th April 2013, 07:56 AM | #779 |
a carbon based life-form
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 39,049
|
|
20th April 2013, 07:57 AM | #780 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,794
|
Every average person I talk to about 9/11 (except the "debunkers" like you lot) believes the fires were so intense they collapsed the buildings, that "hot spots" existed for months after the attack.
I think it's obvious why they make such claims - because people believe authority by virtue of their authority, and nothing else (except debunkers who believe authority in spite of their proven lies) |
20th April 2013, 08:08 AM | #781 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,794
|
Speaking of psychology:
Quote:
Now, what was that you were saying about how you believe authoriity despite their having lied about the fires being so intense they melted concrete and steel? |
20th April 2013, 08:17 AM | #782 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 26,122
|
Fires were intense, Fire did collapse the WTC, and hot spots did exist for months.
You say the concrete did not melt; everyone agrees the concrete did not melt except the 911 truth followers who ban you all over the internet because your claims of missiles was proved wrong on 911 by RADAR, video, eye witnesses and aircraft debris from 4, aircraft. Your no plane claims are anti-intellectual, and hateful as you ignore those murdered on 911 by spreading delusional nonsense about missiles, and lie about a mistake made calling debris fused together by heat and pressure.
The museum exhibit is labeled wrong - you failed to do anything but make up lies about why it is a mistake. Complete nonsense. You make up lies about 911, and become exactly what you are against. You are trying to fool people with your missile fantasy, and you call fire fighters and police liars behind their backs. The fires were intense, and the fires did collapse the buildings. Hot spots did exist for months. Those are facts. You spread lies of no planes, silly delusional missiles. You spread lies of no jumpers, a most disgusting claim. You spread lies people are spreading lies on purpose, and you have not confronted the people you spread lies about. I never believe authority, this is your projecting false properties to people. You make up lies now about JREF posters, so you can be happy with your no plane lies of missiles and claim those in authority are liars. You are upset about war - most people are anti-war. You spread lies about 911 to support an anti-war stand, silly, and ineffective. Drop your lies about 911 and protest war, a more worthy cause than spreading nonsense about 911. Fires were intense, Fire did collapse the WTC, and hot spots did exist for months. This is what happens when you have over 220 acres of office material confined to 19 acres of debris. Burning plastic, more heat energy than TNT; burning wood, more heat energy than TNT, etc. Hot spots which helped form the aggregate of debris around the gun, not melted concrete, just junk mislabeled, has you making lies about who labeled and why. A big non-issue. The only people who believe your silly claims are idiots like the Boston Bombers. People too stupid to form rational thoughts, or make rational conclusions. No one said steel melted, or concrete melted from NIST, or any other engineer, or scientist who is rational. Zip. you spread lies about this, and offer zero evidence. You have quote-mined the MSM and failed. You keep spreading lies about JREF. I know of no JREF posters who accepts authority on face value, as you spread false information about your fellow humans. |
20th April 2013, 08:35 AM | #783 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,054
|
A bit of a gamble ain't it though, provided you are correct with what you suspect to be evidently clear? No, given what I wrote in my former reply about it (if you were willing to consider that information), I'd have to say you are confusing incompetence for a greater, unfalsifiable malice, something that I think 911-truthers do far too easily and far too often.
Furthermore, the "hot spots" did exist for months after the collapses. We have a pretty good idea of how and why they came to be. Thermite, tnt etc can not produce that kind of long lasting temperatures. Combustibles can, however. And there was a heap of very good combustibles to that end in those piles, which we know were in them, without the need to invoke remarkable, extraordinary and ultimately sensational stuff from left field. |
__________________
"I don't believe I ever saw an Oklahoman who wouldn't fight at the drop of a hat -- and frequently drop the hat himself." - Robert E. Howard |
|
20th April 2013, 12:20 PM | #784 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,849
|
ahhhh-hahahaha
It is quite obvious that such is my opinion of the consensus on this topic, among the debunker group of posters here. Perhaps I erroneously assumed that it was also obvious which camp I belong to and that if I offer an opinion on the consensus of that camp, that it would apply to me as well. That you seem confused in this regard and I have to explain it may be indicative of a lack of logical reasoning on your part
Quote:
Again I would ask why but as ozeco points out that is a psychological question that may not belong here.
Quote:
Are we to also assume that a memorial to the events in Manhattan is supposed to be a technically and scientifically precise docuementation of those events?
Quote:
btw, I do see the wording of speeches made by members of the US admin were designed to garner support for invasion of Iraq. Most of the world in fact did not buy the WMD claim, or the tenuous and even laughable supposed AQ-Iraq collaboration.
Quote:
|
20th April 2013, 12:33 PM | #785 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,849
|
According to yankee , not only are all debunkers affected by a supposed Stockholm syndrome (oddly enough this would require that we had at one time felt that we were being held hostage by TPTB) and therefore in the thrall of some ephemeral controlling group that caused the destruction, he also tells us that all the non-no-planers of the truthers are wrong.
In fact it appears that absolutly everyone is wrong, wrong, wrong and only yankee is correct, supposedly no doubt about it! what are the odds? |
20th April 2013, 12:42 PM | #786 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,849
|
|
20th April 2013, 07:55 PM | #787 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Moss Vale, NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,617
|
|
20th April 2013, 11:56 PM | #788 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,794
|
|
20th April 2013, 11:58 PM | #789 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,794
|
|
21st April 2013, 12:00 AM | #790 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,794
|
|
21st April 2013, 02:02 AM | #791 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,374
|
|
__________________
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your INFORMED opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. -- Harlan Ellison |
|
21st April 2013, 03:25 AM | #792 |
Ardent Formulist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 15,334
|
|
__________________
To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens. |
|
21st April 2013, 04:28 AM | #793 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 18,863
|
Not a bit of it. We have seen that the merry morons who were running the government at the time of 9/11 were inept. They certainly made a mess of their response, wasting billions of dollars and achieving nothing of lasting value.
We have also seen where some of the people who want to "liberate" us from this nightmare are comning from. Most seem to slither up out of the white nationalist snake pit or the anarcho-nihilist swamp. Not gonna go there. |
__________________
No civilization ever collapsed because the poor had too much to eat. |
|
21st April 2013, 04:36 AM | #794 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 31,398
|
|
21st April 2013, 07:39 AM | #795 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,849
|
|
21st April 2013, 07:40 AM | #796 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,849
|
|
21st April 2013, 07:47 AM | #797 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: 40 miles north of the border
Posts: 20,849
|
By whom am I, a Canadian btw, being 'held hostage'? One would assume that if I were being held hostage and identifying with my hostage taker that I would be aware of that person or group's identity.
No, imho you are the one who is a slave, to your our paranoia. That or you are a deeply disturbed attention seeker who purports to believe a truly fantastical scenario in order to garner interaction, be it positive or negative, with others on the internet. |
21st April 2013, 11:58 AM | #798 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 26,122
|
Holy denial. There were 220 acres of office material to burn.
On 911 the WTC tower fires burning before collapse were equal in heat to 2,500 tons of TNT. Do you know what ton means? Yes, no, you don't care? If the fires were about 20 acres before, that left 10 times more heat energy left to burn for months, the heat energy equal to 25,000 TONS of TNT. Not to mention the other buildings crushed on 911, and the cars underneath the WTC, and the floors under the WTC. Hot spots, mean fire. Hot spots does not mean melted steel. http://yankee451.com/ Oops, you believe in fantasy; you make up fantasy using nonsesne. http://yankee451.com/2012/07/15/963/ Your OP from your web page; has photos which debunk/refute your missile claims. The OP exposes your hate of police and fire fighters. Have you contacted the museum? |
21st April 2013, 12:13 PM | #799 |
Rave on, Not Fade Away
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,189
|
|
__________________
I see that the No-Planers still travel Air Elastic-Band with their fleet of innovative rubber Boeings. |
|
21st April 2013, 01:29 PM | #800 |
Master Poster
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,794
|
Nowhere do I say the NYPD are all lying scum - those are your words.
If art imitates life, then referring to the plethora of films that depict police corruption is relevant. Are you claiming police corruption only exists in the movies? Do tell. I'm sure there are "good" cops in the NYPD and the PANYNJ. All it would take would be a few corrupt people at the top to taint the whole department. What's with the all or nothing black and white thinking from you all? |
Thread Tools | |
|
|