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Tags Convection , meteorology , storms

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Old 16th November 2018, 12:36 AM   #201
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
You can’t link to it, can you?
Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
You got nothing!!!

Res ipsa loquitur.
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Old 16th November 2018, 01:07 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by NewtonTrino View Post
There's nothing really else to say.

Honestly still don't understand what the original thing is about.
It's a lot of hot air.
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Old 16th November 2018, 01:08 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
LOL. You simple fools can't figure out anything.

This is the reason so much of science is so bad.
Jim, you're just pissed because back in the day your idyllic summer vacation spot (West over the hill from your present locale) was just one yuge fog bank that blotted out the sun for the entire summer. How did that fog get there, Jimbo?
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Old 16th November 2018, 01:31 AM   #204
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There appears to be a deep-seated emotional need in the OP to be right despite evidence to the contrary.

He's got nuthin!
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Old 16th November 2018, 01:37 AM   #205
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Mathematical models that predict. They have them and you don’t. If you had an idea about how you would go about making your own, you would understand theirs and not be in your current situation.
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Old 16th November 2018, 01:44 AM   #206
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I think the biggest problem in science is that, because it's so complicated, people who don't get it think that it's just made up and therefore think that they can do the just making stuff up bit themselves.
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Old 16th November 2018, 01:49 AM   #207
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BREAKTHROUGH: Hydrogen Bonding as The Mechanism That Neutralizes H2O Polarity
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!...U/QmNEM9mnDgAJ

Naturally there are YouTube videos.
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Old 16th November 2018, 02:07 AM   #208
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Sounds sciency!
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Old 16th November 2018, 02:26 AM   #209
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Quote:
(Like the surreal belief (superstition) that H2O magically becomes gaseous at temperatures/pressures far below its boiling temperature/pressure.)
Lol. Science not really your thing, is it? Take a bowl out of cupboard. Stick some water in it. Leave at room temperature. See what happens after a few days. Dear me. Talk about lowest common denominator! I think we just found it.
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Old 16th November 2018, 02:38 AM   #210
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Mod WarningSeveral posts breaching the MA (and responses to them) have been moved to AAH.

The mod team is aware of the possible membership irregularity and are investigating that; this is not the thread for discussion of that issue.

Posted By:zooterkin
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Old 16th November 2018, 03:25 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Lol. Science not really your thing, is it? Take a bowl out of cupboard. Stick some water in it. Leave at room temperature. See what happens after a few days. Dear me. Talk about lowest common denominator! I think we just found it.
Shush! Let him say his punchline before you trample on it.
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Old 16th November 2018, 04:09 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
You got nothing!!!
No U.
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Old 16th November 2018, 05:38 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
I'm not running a hand holding service here. Take a guess. Go ahead. Be brave.
Why can't you tell us where you think it goes?
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Old 16th November 2018, 05:57 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
Instead of becoming upset why not just ask me if I will allow you to make a retraction.
I'm not upset and I've said nothing to retract.

I ask you these questions to help you explain your beliefs. Why don't you answer them?

Why always? If the moist air were also warmer and less dense than dry cool air, couldn't it be lighter?

If not convection, what?

That goes along with convection, but if it doesn't rise because it's lighter, then why does it rise?

What are your scientific credentials?

If the water doesn't become gaseous, then where does it go?
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Old 16th November 2018, 06:13 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
Right. Now just apply Avogadro's law and you get the right answer. Moist air is heavier (not lighter) than dry air.

https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/...hp?f=8&t=16306

Now do you get it?

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
It's rude to post so many posts (30+!) in a row. Learn to multi-quote and post more compact responses to several people, please.
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Old 16th November 2018, 06:18 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
Impossible. H2O does not magically turn gaseous. The invisibility fools people. People are gullible and assume that since gaseous H2O is invisible that therefore the invisibility of moist air proves it is gaseous. This is just dumb reasoning.
Who the hell assumes that? It doesn't even make any sense.

Quote:
Vapor. Not gas.


Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
You got nothing!!!
Tell you what: why don't you test these ideas rather than take words on the internet as gospel?

Quote:
You are so desperate.
So no counter-argument, then?

You're in way over your head here.
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Old 16th November 2018, 06:20 AM   #217
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Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
Lurch,
Moist air is always heavier than dry air. Always!

You are mistaken. H2O is heavier than the N2 and O2 (at ambient temperatures) in that it consists of nanodroplets, not individual molecules. The thing you forgot to consider is the boiling temperature of H2O.

That would explain why I’m squinting at my computer screen through a fog, but unfortunately for your beautiful theory I’m not.
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Old 16th November 2018, 06:24 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
Humans like simple models. So, meteorologists and climatologists give us what we want.
They need supercomputers to calculate weather. How simple is that?

Quote:
It's as if you are just parroting back things you've heard.
Ditto. You're parotting nonsense websites without demonstrating that you understand the science.

Quote:
This is the reason so much of science is so bad.
Oh, ok. I think I've got you figured out now. You don't understand science so you've decided that your way of thinking is better. I suppose you think it's "holistic" or somesuch. You even labeled yourself a genius. I think you should be a bit more humble and respect those who've dedicated their lives to understanding how the world works. They know a hell of a lot more than you.
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Old 16th November 2018, 08:33 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
Or maybe you can explain. Does your method of turning liquid H2O into gaseous H2O far below its known boiling temperature/pressure in any way involve pixie dust?

No, it involves water molecules at the surface of the liquid having sufficient energy to escape the attraction of the molecules around them. Whearas your method would seem to require groups of molecules forming droplets that are somehow discrete from the water around them, which somehow levitate themselves from the body of the water. Who needs “pixie dust” here?
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Old 16th November 2018, 09:55 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
Right. Now just apply Avogadro's law and you get the right answer. Moist air is heavier (not lighter) than dry air.

https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/...hp?f=8&t=16306
Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post
Your post has a fatal error - linking to the forum at the deluded Thunderbolts cult.
From that forum post:

Quote:
USA Today:
"What Avogadro discovered leads us to conclude that if we added water vapor
molecules to our cubic foot of air, some of the nitrogen and oxygen molecules
would leave -- remember, the total number of molecules in our cubic foot of air
stays the same. The water molecules, which replace nitrogen or oxygen, have a
molecular weight of 18. (One oxygen atom with atomic weight of 16, and two
hydrogen atoms each with atomic weight of 1). This is lighter than both nitrogen
and oxygen, which average out at 29. In other words, replacing nitrogen and
oxygen with water vapor decreases the weight of the air in the cubic foot; that
is, it's density decreases."
I am willing to bet big money that USA Today did not misspell "its."
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Old 16th November 2018, 09:58 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
No, it involves water molecules at the surface of the liquid having sufficient energy to escape the attraction of the molecules around them. Whearas your method would seem to require groups of molecules forming droplets that are somehow discrete from the water around them, which somehow levitate themselves from the body of the water. Who needs “pixie dust” here?
I learned that in high school chemistry. So far, the only thing the OP of this thread has demonstrated is massive ignorance of basic scientific principles. Liquids (not just water) evaporate below their boiling points all the time. I seem to recall running into this guy (or someone with very similar misconceptions) on youtube.

The boiling point is the temperature (for a given pressure) where the vapor pressure equals the ambient pressure. At this temperature, bubbles of vapor can form within the liquid. Below it, evaporation can only occur on the surface of the liquid. I suspect everyone here except for the OP understands this.

Last edited by CORed; 16th November 2018 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 16th November 2018, 10:02 AM   #222
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Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
Impossible. H2O does not magically turn gaseous. The invisibility fools people. People are gullible and assume that since gaseous H2O is invisible that therefore the invisibility of moist air proves it is gaseous. This is just dumb reasoning.
So, your entire "scientific discovery" revolves around denying that liquid and solid water may evaporate or sublimate into a gaseous form?

Wikipedia is your friend.
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Old 16th November 2018, 10:11 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
No, it involves water molecules at the surface of the liquid having sufficient energy to escape the attraction of the molecules around them. Whearas your method would seem to require groups of molecules forming droplets that are somehow discrete from the water around them, which somehow levitate themselves from the body of the water. Who needs “pixie dust” here?
Oh man, I like your post better.
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Old 16th November 2018, 10:32 AM   #224
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
So, your entire "scientific discovery" revolves around denying that liquid and solid water may evaporate or sublimate into a gaseous form?

Wikipedia is your friend.
The notion that the liquid to gas phase change can happen only at or above the boiling point does seem to be the fundamental misunderstanding at the root of his delusions. I'm not sure whether or not he understands that boiling point depends on pressure as well as temperature. I would wager significant money that the concept of vapor pressure is completely beyond his comprehension.

Between his utter ignorance of basic concepts and his unshakable conviction that he and he alone knows how things really work it's hard to know where to start with him. He needs to go back to high school science, if not elementary school science.

Last edited by CORed; 16th November 2018 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 16th November 2018, 10:37 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
So, your entire "scientific discovery" revolves around denying that liquid and solid water may evaporate or sublimate into a gaseous form?
Bwhahaha! In space, even metals can sublimate to an extent that's significant to engineering. In some cases that's why we anodize them.
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Old 16th November 2018, 10:47 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by jonesdave116 View Post
Lol. Science not really your thing, is it? Take a bowl out of cupboard. Stick some water in it. Leave at room temperature. See what happens after a few days. Dear me. Talk about lowest common denominator! I think we just found it.

To be fair, it IS a bit like watching paint dry.

ETA: It occurs to me that if Jim has access to a classroom chemistry lab somewhere they might have one of those high-tech digital scales so he could place the bowl of water on the scale and watch the water's mass slowly decrease over time. Just to make it more exciting!

Last edited by Elagabalus; 16th November 2018 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 16th November 2018, 10:57 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I think the biggest problem in science is that, because it's so complicated, people who don't get it think that it's just made up and therefore think that they can do the just making stuff up bit themselves.
It would appear that JamesMcGinn's notion of how science works is that you make stuff up, shout it very loudly and insult anyone who disagrees. I don't think "test your hypothesis by experimentation and/or data collection" fits into it anywhere at all.
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Old 16th November 2018, 11:15 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post
(Like the surreal belief (superstition) that H2O magically becomes gaseous at temperatures/pressures far below its boiling temperature/pressure.)

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
I know this is hopeless, but ... please tell us what you think happens when you hang clothes out to dry.

Hans
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Old 16th November 2018, 11:30 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
I know this is hopeless, but ... please tell us what you think happens when you hang clothes out to dry.

Hans
Magic!
Wooooo
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Old 16th November 2018, 11:42 AM   #230
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
Bwhahaha! In space, even metals can sublimate to an extent that's significant to engineering. In some cases that's why we anodize them.
Not just in space which is why they are looking at ditching the 'Grand K'
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Old 16th November 2018, 11:49 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Not just in space which is why they are looking at ditching the 'Grand K'
'k
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Old 16th November 2018, 02:44 PM   #232
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I hope the mods don't take away our new chew toy....
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Old 16th November 2018, 03:19 PM   #233
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All together now... “you got nothing!”
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Old 16th November 2018, 09:33 PM   #234
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
I know this is hopeless, but ... please tell us what you think happens when you hang clothes out to dry.

Hans

When I do it, it starts raining.


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Old 16th November 2018, 10:59 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
When I do it, it starts raining.


Norm
Any particular type of clothes? We could throw them out of aircraft and cause rain during droughts.
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Old 17th November 2018, 01:13 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
When I do it, it starts raining.


Norm
When I get sad it always seems to rain.
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Old 17th November 2018, 06:54 AM   #237
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Originally Posted by Kid Eager View Post
All together now... “you got nothing!”
He keeps saying that. I do not think it means what he thinks it means.
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Old 17th November 2018, 07:12 AM   #238
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
He keeps saying that. I do not think it means what he thinks it means.
He uses it whenever he runs out of arguments, so it really means "I got nothing".
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Old 17th November 2018, 08:13 AM   #239
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
From that forum post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMcGinn View Post

Right. Now just apply Avogadro's law and you get the right answer. Moist air is heavier (not lighter) than dry air.

https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/...hp?f=8&t=16306
Originally Posted by Reality Check View Post

Your post has a fatal error - linking to the forum at the deluded Thunderbolts cult.
From that forum post:

Quote:
Quote:

USA Today:
"What Avogadro discovered leads us to conclude that if we added water vapor
molecules to our cubic foot of air, some of the nitrogen and oxygen molecules
would leave -- remember, the total number of molecules in our cubic foot of air
stays the same. The water molecules, which replace nitrogen or oxygen, have a
molecular weight of 18. (One oxygen atom with atomic weight of 16, and two
hydrogen atoms each with atomic weight of 1). This is lighter than both nitrogen
and oxygen, which average out at 29. In other words, replacing nitrogen and
oxygen with water vapor decreases the weight of the air in the cubic foot; that
is, it's density decreases."
I am willing to bet big money that USA Today did not misspell "its."
Wow!! Is that quote from the Thunderbolts website really has stupid has it seems to be?

One example of the stupidity. Just where do the nitrogen and oxygen atoms go? Do they teleport to another world?!
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Old 17th November 2018, 08:16 AM   #240
RecoveringYuppy
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Originally Posted by Pacal View Post
One example of the stupidity. Just where do the nitrogen and oxygen atoms go? Do they teleport to another world?!

Are you joking? No. They leave that particular cubic foot.
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