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21st June 2011, 05:43 AM | #1 |
Muse
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Biggest Scientific Errors in the Quran
I realize this has probably been discussed before, and it makes almost no sense to include the words "scientific" and "Quran" in the same sentence, but I am currently involved in what can loosely be described as a "debate" with some Muslims. They claim the Quran is "scientific" and has a lot of advanced science in it, and if only I would read this book by Dr. Maurice Bucaille, I will supposedly become convinced of the Quran's accuracy and divine inspiration. And I will no longer be an atheist!
I'm not used to discussing such matters with Muslims. I have a lot more experience though dealing with Christians and I originally was a Christian so I am very familiar with the Bible and it's contradictions and errors. So I am curious to know, just to expose the folly of their ways(I know they will not change their ways though), what are the biggest scientific errors in the Quran? Unfortunately many websites that list the errors of the Quran are Christian websites, so their credibility is questionable. Does the Quran really say that mountains help stabilize the earth? Does it get human embryology wrong as well? Based on my readings so far, this "Quranic science" nonsense is in the same league as Nostradamus "predictions": take vague, ambiguous statements and twist them around to mean whatever you want them to mean. I really don't know why I bother discussing such matters with these appallingly ignorant, brainwashed people. I believe they've never heard of "confirmation bias" or just plain "bias". I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. It is sickening how anyone can repeat such lies and misinformation with such self-assurance, and then imply I'm the stupid one for not agreeing with them. I used to just play a "trick" on these Muslims, just to see how gullible and dishonest to the point of retardation they are, and then walk away from the "discussion"(this is due in part to my ignorance of the Quran). It's just not worth it to talk with someone who falls for such a trick, which is basically my "conceding" they are right about the Quran. I then start mentioning these sciency-sounding made up nonsense words and how I was impressed this "advanced science" was in the Quran, and how Einstein and other great European and American scientists used this amazing information from the Quran to make their discoveries. I still can't get over the 100% success rate of this trick. They never say "I'm not sure what you are talking about" or "let me look that up and I will get back to you", it's always "Wow! I'm so impressed you know this! You finally understand!" or "This is why I am Muslim and so proud to be Muslim!!". When someone has to lie like this, they demonstrate they have no interest in debating or learning anything new. |
21st June 2011, 06:26 AM | #2 |
Mafia Penguin
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Does the Skeptics Annotated Quran help you? I'm too lazy to wade through this online book that is probably indeed a load of BS.
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21st June 2011, 07:31 AM | #3 |
Graduate Poster
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Yeah, I just jumped to a section at random (Birds, Bees and Spiders) and it was atrocious. It talked about spiderwebs being weak! It's one of the strongest natural fibers currently known to exist! And the author didn't even clue on the fact that the bee quote talked about honey being a balm or medicine. This is true but it was already known by most ancient cultures in that area thousands of years before the Quran.
I'm not going to bother even reading the other bits but I would guess it's all random misinterpretations or knowledge that had already been discovered by other cultures before the writing of the Quran. |
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A quick reminder to all participants that although incomprehensibility is not against the Membership Agreement, incivility is. Please try and remember this, and keep your exchanges polite and respectful. -arthwollipot |
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21st June 2011, 07:45 AM | #4 |
Confusion Reactor
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What difference does it make if a holy book has scientific errors? Isn't that like expecting a science book to be religiously accurate?
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21st June 2011, 07:52 AM | #5 |
Philosopher
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I'm sure they'll throw the atom thing at you.
As in "the Quran mentions the theory of the atom". The actual quote is indeed Nostradamus-style vagueness. In this case, point out that the theory of the atom pre-dates the Quran by about 800 years, was worded quite exact, was quite accurate and was actually called the theory of the atom. Oh and it came from Democritus, a Greek atheist. |
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Death to Videodrome! Long live the new flesh! |
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21st June 2011, 08:00 AM | #6 |
Student
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Search YouTube for PZ Myers and there is a very good video of him having a debate with some Muslims about the very same things.
It's about 14 minutes long if I remember correctly. I would put a link up, but I'm on my phone and can't do it on this. |
21st June 2011, 08:10 AM | #8 |
Confusion Reactor
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Eternal, this is a public section of the forum...
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21st June 2011, 09:03 AM | #9 |
Banned
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21st June 2011, 09:36 AM | #10 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Here's the link to the first half of a clip featuring PZ and Aron Ra debating some Muslims.
The sidebar includes other debates on the same subject. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rNtEdptaY |
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How many zeros? Jabba |
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21st June 2011, 10:04 AM | #11 | |||
The Jester
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This is the video that PZ linked to, discussing the embryology in the Koran. |
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21st June 2011, 11:10 AM | #12 |
Muse
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Thanks for the replies, especially the PZ Myers videos. These "discussions" I'm having with Muslims are hardly "intellectual" discussions, they are for entertainment reasons only. Or better yet, "waste of time" reasons. At first I thought these discussions were going to be humorous, but it's turning into horror, I feel a sense of horror over how extremely ignorant and gullible some people can be. The hate level is also horrific; it seems all this arrogant ignorance about the Quran and science boils down to one thing: destroying Israel and the Jews, as the Quran "predicts".
It is no longer a mystery to me why the Muslim world is so backward. |
21st June 2011, 11:29 AM | #13 |
Confusion Reactor
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I think you need to realize how many people in how many countries you just called "backward". And that you don't understand that what you call the "Muslim world" is not what many Muslims think it is.
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21st June 2011, 11:38 AM | #14 |
Graduate Poster
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Extremists are extremists, no mater what their dogma is. Even atheists have blind, angry extremists who make me want to cringe (and I AM an atheist)!
There are many kind, gentle, polite Muslims out there who take seriously the pillars of Islam including charity and humility. Many donate great amounts of food, money and time to helping others because of their faith. While I may not share their belief in a deity it is wrong to lump them all together with the mad dogs. Evil people always find something to validate their actions, the ambiguity of religion simply makes an easier excuse than most. |
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A quick reminder to all participants that although incomprehensibility is not against the Membership Agreement, incivility is. Please try and remember this, and keep your exchanges polite and respectful. -arthwollipot |
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21st June 2011, 11:56 AM | #15 |
Philosopher
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nother example of Muslim "science" can be seen if you google "the moon split in two." this will lead you to a number of Muslim websites that assert that photos of the moon's surface, showing the Ariadaeus Rille, reveals a crack that girdles the moon. This, say the websites, proves that, as Islamic legend has it, the Prophet did indeed split the moon in two at his word, then re-fused it, as a demonstration that he was a true prophet.
There are two problems here: First, the Ariadaeus Rille does not girdle the moon. The rille is about 300 kilometers - or about 186 miles - long. By comparison, the Grand Canyon is 277 miles - or a bit over 400 kilometers - long. The lunar circumference is 10916 kilometers or 6783 miles. Second, the reference in the Qur'an to the moon being split in two, found in the first verse of Surah Al Qamar (Surah 54, "the Moon") is rendered, depending on what translation one reads, either in the past or present tense. In the present tense Q 54:1 reads: "The Hour draws near. The moon is split in two." This is generally seen as an apocalyptic prophecy. As Weak Kitten has noted, there are many decent Muslims in the world. There are also many who do not insist the Qur'an be treated as a science text. It is those who demand certainty who insist that science must conform to their holy book. This same split can be seen among Christians regarding creationism. Another problem is that, in many Muslim states, Islam is today where Christianity was in the 1600s, in a state of turmoils marked by intolerance and Muslim on Muslim violence, just as Christianity in the 1600 was marked by Christian on Christian violence. |
21st June 2011, 02:41 PM | #16 |
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21st June 2011, 10:43 PM | #17 |
Penultimate Amazing
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21st June 2011, 10:52 PM | #18 |
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22nd June 2011, 12:16 AM | #19 |
Nasty Brutish and Tall
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Does saying that God made the Universe count as a scientific error? If so, it would be a pretty big one...
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22nd June 2011, 05:48 AM | #20 |
Muse
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22nd June 2011, 05:55 AM | #21 |
Muse
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Double post.
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28th June 2011, 10:43 AM | #22 |
Master Poster
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Here's one - http://dev.faithfreedom.org/Articles...radictions.htm
Was made recently aware that some 'scientific' beliefs/facts had been attributed to the Koran/Quran, I knew Christians have made the same bogus statements - Genesis starting October X some 4400 BC etc.. Do the Judaic and Hindi religion also make such statements? If so, we could create a Excel based sheet of major scientific fallacies/facts proposed by religions and add it to the JREF database. Should be fun. |
28th June 2011, 12:24 PM | #23 |
Student
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Something like that would still be fairly hard.
Especially reading each religious book. I can help some, thanks to my own translated copy of the Rig Veda, I found an online version (I looked up the translator's name on google.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_T._H._Griffith At the bottom of this are links to 5 books. (ETA: fixed some errors) |
1st July 2011, 10:26 AM | #24 |
Philosopher
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Neither the Qur'an nor the Bible were intended as science texts. However, truth claims for both can be tested by their failure to conform to history. Here's one example from each:
According to 2 Kings 19:35 the angel of the LORD supernaturally slaughtered the entire 185,000 man Assyrian army under Sennacherib that was besieging Jerusalem. This simply did not happen. According to the Qur'an, Surah Al-Kahf (Q 18) D'uhl Qarnayn ("two horns"), generally accepted as referring to Alexander the Great, built an iron barrier between two mountains to keep out Gog and Magog, barbarians from the north. This barrier, says Surah 18, will stand until the last days. This is a reference to Alexander's Gate, a popular myth about Alexander the Great setting up an iron gate in a pass in the Caucasus Mountains, a reference to which is to be found in Josephus' Wars of the Jews. Since Alexander's Gate is pure fantasy, Muslim apologists usually take the tactic that D'uhl Qarnayn wasn't actually Alexander the great, and the barrier wasn't in the Caucasus, but in, fact, refers to the Great Wall of China. However, Surah 18 specifically says the barriers was made of metal - not stone - and was set up between two mountains - not stretching for thousands of miles. Further, Alexander's profile on coins shows him bearing ram's horns. This is because of an epiphany he had while in egypt, that he was the incarnation of Zeus - Ammon. Ammon, chief god of the Egyptian pantheon, is depicted as having ram's horns (hence, the fossil shelled cephalopods called Ammonites. |
1st July 2011, 11:08 AM | #25 |
Master Poster
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Hi Zelenius,
Not to be harsh or mean, but the I do not see a difference between you "tricking" them and them "lying" to you. Both are deceptive, both sabotage a possibly good discussion, and both betray a lack of interest in learning. I don't mean to get personal, it's just that I can't see a difference in these two actions. Am I missing something? You refer to the muslims as ignorant, but you say this about yourself as well. I think that is a clue and a good starting place for getting an answer to your question. I would not advise dimissing the whole of Islam based on conversations with just a few pwople. I am sure that if you do some reading in the Quran, any scientific problems there would be readily apparent. I do agree with you whole-heartedly that these things are a lot like interpreting Nostradomus' quatrains. I can understand if you do not want to launch into a full fledged study of the Quran, though. If that is the case, I would do this: If the Muslim people you are dealing with make a claim that the Quran is scientific, politely ask them to show you a passage that demonstrates that. Ask them to explain it to you as they see it. Listen carefully and politely, then tell them you need time to consider what they have said. Then go home, read the specific passage they showed you, and prepare a series of questions that when answered, show objectively if the verse is scientific or not. Be prepared for the answer to go either way. It is possible or even likely that there are some things in there that are truely scientifically correct. After all, the authors lived in and observed our world everyday of their lives. Merely containing some scientific truth does not really prove that the Quran is devinely inspired, anyway. However, If it has descrepancies, that is a pretty good indicator that the men of the time wrote it on their own. So, talk to your Muslim friends, be polite to them, insist that they are polite to you as well, and listen & talk with them, human to human. If you can acomplish that, someone just might learn something, but most definately you will have a good conversation for your trouble. That is the best advice I can give you. Regards, Canis |
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"...The chief deficiency I see in the skeptical movement is its polarization: Us vs. Them -- the sense that we have a monopoly on the truth; that those other people who believe in all these stupid doctrines are morons; that if you're sensible, you'll listen to us; and if not, to hell with you. This is nonconstructive. It does not get our message across. It condemns us to permanent minority status." - Carl Sagan
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